External Power Backup

[Stubby]

Hi Folks,

I've experienced a few power cuts in recent weeks, sometimes for hours at a time. I know we can expect more of the same once the monsoon rains kick in. My notebook only gives me about 1:20 minutes of battery time once it's lost its mains supply. OK, so my reason for writing is because I have a question for you techies.

I've heard something about external power packs They seem to be devices that will give you a couple of hours or more power. How do they work, do you just charge them up and them plug them into a USB port of a notebook when you need extra power. If such things do exist for notebooks, can someone tell me the proper name for them, and where I might expect to find one?

Thanks in advance,

Stubby

[Crossy]

The "Power Bank" devices are intended to run tablets, mobiles etc. which are charged via a USB port.

You can't do the same thing with a proper laptop which has an 18-24V power supply block that converts from mains.

The easiest and neatest solution to get more run time would be to get a UPS intended for desktop computers and plug your lappie into it, depending upon the rating of the UPS that should give you at least another hour maybe more.

Roughly how long do you hope to be able to run?

[manfredtillmann]

i used to run one in my office years ago. un-interuptable power supply it was called back than.

plugs into mains and your computer plugs into the gadget. an insurance policy for desktop computers to not loose all unsaved data in the case of a black out. noisy and expensive, did not give you much time, perhaps 45 mins., but worth while.

different story with laptops as they just switch to internal battery once mains is off. has you laptop a removable battery? buy another two and keep them charged, this will serve you a lot better and cheaper in the long run.

[Stubby]

Thanks for the replies guys.

It looks as though my options are limited then. Recently I've experienced two long power cuts, one lasting for almost eight hours and the other around six. These are the longest I've ever experienced in Thailand, so I hope it's not the start of things to come. Heck, it hasn't even started raining yet!

I know a lot of guys will just head off to use the facilities at a local coffee shop when the power goes off at home. I've never been comfortable sitting in those places though. Anything longer than it takes to drink a couple of Lattes and I feel like I'm abusing the joint, even if there are plenty of spare seats. Perhaps that's just me, but I'd prefer to stay home hence this post. Also, the power goes down most during heavy monsoons, which means you're trapped indoors anyway.

Oh well, fingers crossed.

Thanks once again; appreciate your feedback.

Stubby

Edited April 11, 2016 by Stubby

[manfredtillmann]

second thoughts:

a 12v to 'what ever your laptop needs' converter from the car accessories or computer shop, a deep cycle battery similar to the ones for motor homes etc. and a solar trickle charger. costs in oz approx. $600, really don't know if and where you could get this in t.

use that as your permanent power supply, even without sunlight you will have 24 hrs + at any time.

[Crossy]

Deep cycle (or even a car) battery and a baby inverter is the way to go for those loooong outages.

Charge the battery from the mains, solar or even the car.

Does require a modicum of technical ability but not beyond the average DIYer.

I use modified cheap UPS's (1,000-1,500 Baht for refurb 800VA units in Zeer) with external batteries to keep assorted kit going when I don't want to run the generator (at night) but the issue is always charging the battery after use. The UPS internal charger doesn't have the oomph so I have to hook up The Beast (20Amp charger).

[Stubby]

second thoughts:

a 12v to 'what ever your laptop needs' converter from the car accessories or computer shop, a deep cycle battery similar to the ones for motor homes etc. and a solar trickle charger. costs in oz approx. $600, really don't know if and where you could get this in t.

use that as your permanent power supply, even without sunlight you will have 24 hrs + at any time.

That's something to explore, thanks for the tip. Not sure about the $600 price tag though. I guess it all depends how much lost time I'll get from power cuts this year. I won't know that until the rains kick in. I moved in February and am more remote than I've ever been (though still part of the city). I think that makes my area a lower priority if there are multiple power outages more central. Maybe that's why the last two cuts have taken so many hours to fix.

Stubby

[Stubby]

Deep cycle (or even a car) battery and a baby inverter is the way to go for those loooong outages.

Charge the battery from the mains, solar or even the car.

Does require a modicum of technical ability but not beyond the average DIYer.

I use modified cheap UPS's (1,000-1,500 Baht for refurb 800VA units in Zeer) with external batteries to keep assorted kit going when I don't want to run the generator (at night) but the issue is always charging the battery after use. The UPS internal charger doesn't have the oomph so I have to hook up The Beast (20Amp charger).

More interesting options, thanks crossy. I'm more software savvy than hardware though, so I'll have to ask around if I decide to look into these.

Since posting here, I've been searching online and come across some device that claims to charge laptops. It's advertised as a "External Battery Pack for Laptop."

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6800mAh-75Wh-External-Battery-Pack-for-Laptop-/301717088699

There's no description with it though other than the tile, but it sounds like the sort of thing I was first asking about. Mind you, I wouldn't order anything like this from eBay without knowing what I was buying. But maybe I should start searching using the term "External Battery Pack for Laptop" when I get home later, just to see what else comes up.

Thanks once again for all feedback and suggestions,

Stubby

[phetphet]

There are power banks for laptops. eg. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tursion-Capacity-33600mAh-Portable-Notebooks/dp/B0063KXZQ2 but to be honest, if you want something for power cuts at home, UPS is the way to go.

In my opinion APC seem to be the best quality one's. Something like a 1400mAh should give you quite a few hours for just running your laptop. Running other devices off it as well (router for internet access) will obviously decrease runtime, but should still get you out of trouble for a few hours.

http://www.apc.com/th/en/

[Stubby]

There are power banks for laptops. eg. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tursion-Capacity-33600mAh-Portable-Notebooks/dp/B0063KXZQ2 but to be honest, if you want something for power cuts at home, UPS is the way to go.

In my opinion APC seem to be the best quality one's. Something like a 1400mAh should give you quite a few hours for just running your laptop. Running other devices off it as well (router for internet access) will obviously decrease runtime, but should still get you out of trouble for a few hours.

http://www.apc.com/th/en/

Thanks phetphet.

I'm not home now buy I'm pretty sure I have a couple of UPS devices back at the condo. They're not mine, I'm just looking after some bits of hardware for a mate, though it's been here for over a year now. But I read that UPS is only to give you a few minutes to back up work in the event of a power cut, and cannot serve as an external battery. I will have a look when i get home. I know one is lime green colour and the other, smaller one is black. I don't think there's any software with them though. They both the same brand but I can't remember the name exactly. It's syndrome of syndom, something like that.

It's all a bit confusing, and I'm surprised there isn't a simple solution. You know the kind of thing: "Oh, you want one of these mate, they'll do y'"

Thanks for your thoughts.

Stubby

[Don Mega]

how much power does the notebook draw to charge the battery.

[Crossy]

OK, some quick and dirty tests :-

Dell Inspiron N series notebook Core i7 with 1TB SSD and 1TB HDD

Dtech 300W inverter http://vtech-computer.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1197

12V battery.

Consumption from 12V battery.

Inverter alone (idle) - 1A (12W)

Notebook running, battery fully charged, normal use (surfing net) - 6.5A (78W)

Notebook running, battery fully charged, max CPU (running HeavyLoad) - 8.5A (102W)

Notebook off, charging battery - 4.1A (50W)

Backup time.

A 150Ahr deep-discharge battery http://www.amornsolar.com/images/products/enbattery/globatt-150ah.php assuming 50% discharge will run my laptop under normal use for 11.5 hours.

A 10A smart charger will charge the battery back up in about 8 hours.

[ukrules]

You can always get a UPS and a generator, the generators are pretty noisy and must be used outside due to exhaust fumes, you're supposed to keep them dry as well.

I only use mine in an extended outage, normally the rain has stopped by then but the power company still haven't fixed the problem.

This has only happened a couple of times in the last 3 years, the longest outage was almost 2 days.

The generator I have isn't high end (cheap popular Thai model) but it has some kind of levelling system (not sure what it's called), even so the power that comes out of it was not completely stable and when I plugged my UPS into it I could hear the relay (or whatever it is inside) constantly clicking and detecting power abnormalities so in the end I just plugged the desktop into an extension cord and then into the generator and it worked fine.

I also ran the water pump, fridge, freezer, TV and a bunch of lights and fans at the same time. I think I paid around 5 or 6 thousand Baht for it. you also need to keep a large plastic container of fuel lying around to keep it topped up and you're going to need to go and top up that fuel can every day if you use it like I did......but it works.

[Crossy]

Since posting here, I've been searching online and come across some device that claims to charge laptops. It's advertised as a "External Battery Pack for Laptop."

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6800mAh-75Wh-External-Battery-Pack-for-Laptop-/301717088699

75 Watt hours, will probably run the average lappie 1 - 2 hours.

As UKrules notes, the ultimate solution is a generator, some of the little suitcase units are very quiet but won't run much more than the TV, fan and a few lights.

We have a KwaiThong 5kVA beast, quiet it is not (it lives in a DIY "silent" box) but it will run all our lights, freezer etc and one aircon

This is the generator we have with a different badge https://www.directtoshop.com/product/1006722

[Gary A]

Our main power goes off entirely too often, usually for short periods of time but also often for several hours. I went through two UPS units. The first was a small one that only gave me enough time to shut things down. The second much larger one gave me maybe about an hour. Both finally died. I had replaced the batteries in both units. Now I am a happy solar user. Just today the power was off for about two hours. I have 600 watt of solar panels, an MPPT charge controller, 260 AH of sealed AGM batteries and a 600 watt pure sine wave inverter. Three years now with no problems. I have lights, a fan and my computer. I turn the computer in the morning and turn it off right before I go to bed. No low voltage, surges or worry about lightening strikes. My computer room has power all the time no matter how long the main power is off. I think the entire setup cost me about 40,000 baht and worth every baht.

[phetphet]

This: http://www.apc.com/shop/th/en/products/APC-Back-UPS-1100VA-AVR-230V-ASEAN/P-BX1100CI-MS is similar to the one I have, but mine is 800VA. If you look at the images of rear you will see that you can also pass phone connection through. These are not cheap though.

If you are just working on your computer, and already have two functional Syndomes, I suppose you could keep them both charged, and swap over when one runs out, while charging the other.

[Bantex]

I bought a larger and more powerful battery for my laptop which was twice as deep as the original battery but the added depth works well as it also angles the laptop to a more comfortable angle for use. I now get three times battery power and have the original battery as backup.

[Bredbury Blue]

If you're near a bkk computer mall, getting a 2nd laptop battery should be possible - sure mine was inexpensive though think it could have been a 2nd hand one.

So where are you guys experiencing these long blackouts? Thought we'd got past those days in Thailand of long power outs (we occasionally get them in samut prakarn but they never last long).

[Stubby]

You can always get a UPS and a generator, the generators are pretty noisy and must be used outside due to exhaust fumes, you're supposed to keep them dry as well.

I only use mine in an extended outage, normally the rain has stopped by then but the power company still haven't fixed the problem.

This has only happened a couple of times in the last 3 years, the longest outage was almost 2 days.

The generator I have isn't high end (cheap popular Thai model) but it has some kind of levelling system (not sure what it's called), even so the power that comes out of it was not completely stable and when I plugged my UPS into it I could hear the relay (or whatever it is inside) constantly clicking and detecting power abnormalities so in the end I just plugged the desktop into an extension cord and then into the generator and it worked fine.

I also ran the water pump, fridge, freezer, TV and a bunch of lights and fans at the same time. I think I paid around 5 or 6 thousand Baht for it. you also need to keep a large plastic container of fuel lying around to keep it topped up and you're going to need to go and top up that fuel can every day if you use it like I did......but it works.

It's a lovely idea, but a generator for a notebook is a bit extreme. Probably not allowed on the balcony of a condo either. I can understand how useful that might be for someone living in a house out in the sticks though.

Stubby

[Stubby]

If you're near a bkk computer mall, getting a 2nd laptop battery should be possible - sure mine was inexpensive though think it could have been a 2nd hand one.

So where are you guys experiencing these long blackouts? Thought we'd got past those days in Thailand of long power outs (we occasionally get them in samut prakarn but they never last long).

My notebook is ultra slim and I wouldn't even know how to open it, let alone get at its battery. Good idea for notebooks that have easy access though. I think my old Sony model had a sliding door to access the battery, but not this one.

Stubby

[manfredtillmann]

OK, some quick and dirty tests :-

Dell Inspiron N series notebook Core i7 with 1TB SSD and 1TB HDD

Dtech 300W inverter http://vtech-computer.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1197

12V battery.

Consumption from 12V battery.

Inverter alone (idle) - 1A (12W)

Notebook running, battery fully charged, normal use (surfing net) - 6.5A (78W)

Notebook running, battery fully charged, max CPU (running HeavyLoad) - 8.5A (102W)

Notebook off, charging battery - 4.1A (50W)

Backup time.

A 150Ahr deep-discharge battery http://www.amornsolar.com/images/products/enbattery/globatt-150ah.php assuming 50% discharge will run my laptop under normal use for 11.5 hours.

A 10A smart charger will charge the battery back up in about 8 hours.

i wish i had paid better attention in school back than. thank you for posting your calculations.

you mention 'inverter'. is your calculation based on 12v inverted to 220v and transformed back down to what ever the laptop needs?

i have a gadget in my truck that powers my laptop straight from the cigarette lighter socket (24v) but i know it can use 12V car sockets, too.

how would that calculate? any better?

cheers

[Crossy]

i wish i had paid better attention in school back than. thank you for posting your calculations.

you mention 'inverter'. is your calculation based on 12v inverted to 220v and transformed back down to what ever the laptop needs?

i have a gadget in my truck that powers my laptop straight from the cigarette lighter socket (24v) but i know it can use 12V car sockets, too.

how would that calculate? any better?

cheers

Yes, it will certainly be somewhat more efficient going directly to the laptop voltage if you have a unit that can do it Just how much more efficient I can't guess.

I used what I had in stock just to give an idea of how much run time you can get from a single 12V battery, it's a lot shorter than many would think.

[kaleem]

Hi,

Power bank option will be good, in market many of power banks are available for notebook and mobile devices, but i will suggest you if you are regularly facing a power cut then it will better you should choose sin wave inverter which will solvemany problems which occur after power cut and protect you all appliances, because all electronic appliances are compatable for sin wave current.

Edited April 15, 2016 by kaleem

[kaleem]

You can use pure sine wave inverter which protect your all applinace.

[Don Mega]

Hi,

Power bank option will be good, in market many of power banks are available for notebook and mobile devices, but i will suggest you if you are regularly facing a power cut then it will better you should choose sin wave inverter which will solvemany problems which occur after power cut and protect you all appliances, because all electronic appliances are compatable for sin wave current.

The sin wave convertor stores its owns power ?

[dwilko9d]

Hi Stubby,

If you're experiencing frequent power outages for long periods i highly recommend taking a look at a Hybrid Solar System. This way you can still be connected to the mains as well as having the battery back up for when you experience a power outage. I understand your main focus is on a Power Bank right now, but with a Hybrid system you could run a few lights, Fan and listen to your favorite radio station at the same time as long as you have the correct set up... For more technical information, have a quick browse through the link provided. http://www.monosun.net/home

[Don Mega]

Hey Stubby,

As you are only wanting to keep your lappy going for a few hours during the sporadic power outages I suggest you put wind turbines in your yard..........

[Stubby]

Thanks everyone for the great suggestions. I had no idea there would be so much response to this topic. I've learned a fair bit along the way too.

Many of the options are a bit extreme seeing as I live in a condo. I think a power-bank of some description is going to be my best compromise solution.

Thanks once again, I appreciated everyone's feedback here.

Stubby

[B1TcoinLife]

Hey Stubby,

As you are only wanting to keep your lappy going for a few hours during the sporadic power outages I suggest you put wind turbines in your yard..........

Don't you need to get planning permission or something before you just erect turbines?

I like the idea... A lot less messy than a generator + daily petrol....

[Don Mega]

Hey Stubby,

As you are only wanting to keep your lappy going for a few hours during the sporadic power outages I suggest you put wind turbines in your yard..........

Don't you need to get planning permission or something before you just erect turbines?

I like the idea... A lot less messy than a generator + daily petrol....

Nah, just hide em in the backyard behind the house.