Judge clears Led Zeppelin's 'Stairway to Heaven' copyright case for trial

[SpokaneAl]

Anyways...

More than half a century has gone by. Seems to me that this should of been hashed out years ago.

Rappers don't have this problem.... curiously. With their music (and lyrics).

Most bands - the Rolling Stones, the Allman Brothers Band, rappers etc gladly give credit where credit is due. They don't steal songs and give themselves credit for writing stuff that they did not write. Here are some more examples of LZ "creativity."

http://www.musictimes.com/articles/6250/20140520/7-songs-other-than-stairway-to-heaven-that-led-zeppelin-stole.htm

[Steely Dan]

They should come to Thailand. I often hear familiar tunes in Thai pop songs which have probably been pirated from western hits.

Not probably !!!!!!! Quite deliberately . I personally witnessed this in the Thai music industry where teams of writers would comb Western albums for melodies which they could "use" for the Thai market !

When I brought this to their attention they flew into a rage saying it was the Thai way ...another to interfere

Sabai Sabai anyone ????? (Copy of Cilla Black hit )

But Led Zeppelin copy? I don't think so ....as chord progression so old and well used previously

One of my favourite pastimes is to tell the wife which Thai songs are a complete lift of a Western song. Mind you whole genres are sometimes copied let alone individual songs.

[lifeincnx]

The opening bars are virtually indistinguishable.

YouTube has a short video that plays the opening of both songs (To my untrained ear, maybe the first bar is the same or very close. But after that, Stairway goes into a different direction):

The law suit is solely with regards to the opening notes and not Stairway's later segue. This is probably an initially valid, albeit very difficult to win, suit. I always liked Spirit (saw them at the Fillmore East in NYC and on New Years at the Valley Music Center in Los Angeles), but come on, California wasn't the first person to arpeggiate a descending chord pattern. Note for note, which the adjudicating judge will rule on, will most likely end up with the case being thrown out.

Edited April 13, 2016 by lifeincnx

[geriatrickid]

Led Zeppelin will lose this case.

[daveAustin]

Huge difference between plagiarism and inspiration. Taurus is to Stairway as Three Blind Mice is to Beethoven's 5th!

[Grouse]

Similar is not the same as identical

Bands always talk about "influences"

If you look at the tablature, the differences are obvious

Game over......

[Rancid]

There is a similarity in the opening progression but the LZ one sounds better. That aside which band went on to megastardom and why? LZ were very good musos, like the Stones they were comfortable in numerous styles.

Sounds like golf diggers to me, talentless aires trying to cash in.

[SpokaneAl]

There is a similarity in the opening progression but the LZ one sounds better. That aside which band went on to megastardom and why? LZ were very good musos, like the Stones they were comfortable in numerous styles.

Sounds like golf diggers to me, talentless aires trying to cash in.

Actually Spirit was a great, talented band and generated some excellent, memorable music. They were among my favorites back in the day.

[Ulysses G.]

IMO, Spirit were OK. Led Zeppelin was GREAT. Zeppelin did everything so much better.

[SpokaneAl]

IMO, Spirit were OK. Led Zeppelin was GREAT. Zeppelin did everything so much better.

I would have a hard time disagreeing when comparing Spirit to Zeppelin. My post was more in response to Spirit being a talentless bunch - of that I strongly disagree.

[boomerangutang]

The reason it's a big deal is because the Zeps are superstars and STH was an iconic hit. I've been a gigging musician since 15 yrs old, played in dozens of bar bands. I think there's a good chance the litigants will win. It can't be a money thing for Page and Plant, as they're both rolling in the stuff. It's more a face thing.

There are many proofs of the Zeps plagiarizing others' songs, usually blues. Here's one that's rarely mentioned. My #1 guitar hero, Albert King, had a song written when the Zeps were wearing nappies and sitting in high chairs. It had a line, "...and I got you in the sights of my love gun" One of Zep's first hits, Whole Lotta Love, has that same line, though the word 'gun' is lost in a crescendo of Page's wicked guitar solo. I always loved Zeppelin and have seen them thrice live, when they were in their first couple of years. One of the most talented, influential and exciting bands ever. Yet that doesn't preclude the fact that they lifted parts of others' songs.

[Rayk]

The only similarities between these 2 songs are that they are both played in the key of A minor and both have an A minor chord with a desending base line. The "Taurus song stays on A minor whereas "Stairway to heaven" goes from an A minor to a D with an F sharp base, than to G and ends with A minor and also has a second melody with an ascending scale.Can't see how a judge can rule that enough evidence has been shown to support the case, unless of course he is tone deaf which seems to me to be the case.

Btw,I have been playing guitar for 28 years.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Rayk

[boomerangutang]

The only similarities between these 2 songs are that they are both played in the key of A minor and both have an A minor chord with a desending base line. The "Taurus song stays on A minor whereas "Stairway to heaven" goes from an A minor to a D with an F sharp base, than to G and ends with A minor and also has a second melody with an ascending scale.Can't see how a judge can rule that enough evidence has been shown to support the case, unless of course he is tone deaf which seems to me to be the case.

Btw,I have been playing guitar for 28 years.

There are more similarities. The meter (beat) of the two songs are identical as are the # of bars in their openings.

There's no doubt Page heard the other song, as they were playing the same venues concurrently, and Page wrote his version a short time after hearing Spirit's version. Why are LZ so intent on dodging the issue? They're already multi-millionaires. A settlement isn't going to break the bank.

I've written songs also, but none have ever been famous. I resided in a town of 213 people in the boonies. If a person wants to become a successful songwriter, it's necessary to live in a big city and rub shoulders with big shots. The old saying, "build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door" is BS. You could build the most excellent mousetrap (or write a great bunch of songs) but it wouldn't mean anything (except maybe to your live-in lover) unless you actively promote it. Becoming successful as a songwriter is 15% talent, 40% promotion, 30% connections and 15% luck.

I like the story of when the Hollies started. Before they were famous, a woman went to them and asked them to go listen to a song her young son (age about 15) had written. Any other older guys would have said, "yea, thanks lady" and not gone to the boy's house. However, Graham Nash and his friend went. The boy was sitting on the floor with a guitar. Here's what they heard; "Bus Stop. Wet day. She's there. I say / please share my umbrella. Bus Stops. Bus Goes. She Stays. Love grows / under my umbrella."

Note, even icons like Dylan and Springstein might not have made it. They wouldn't have made it on talent alone. They both had the same promoter (a wheeler dealer jewish guy from upstate NY with lots of connections in the music industry). Thanks to the tireless efforts of that promoter, their careers got off the ground. And, they were in NYC, not Podunk Arkansas. If they had kicked around anywhere which wasn't a large city, they would likely have both been just minstrels singing at open mikes.

It's similar with painters. None of the famous modern painters got famous outside of giant cities. All had to go to large cities and ceaselessly promote themselves in order to gain fame and fortune. NYC is #1, but London, Paris, L.A. are tied for 2nd. Same for book writers.

The message: talent by itself doesn't account for a hill of beans. Truckloads of promotion plus exposure/connections in big cities is what propels people from just being talented to becoming mega-famous.

[Skeptic7]

Would not be surprised at all if Spirit wins this lawsuit and gets a substantial settlement, which will then be reduced and appealed and reduced again...but still more than a pittance in the end. Love Zeppelin and "Stairway", but it's quite obvious that the opening has been plagiarized, whether intentionally or subconsciously, as they are undeniably nearly identical. The other evidence is that it is almost certain that Page had heard "Taurus", as the two bands played together (despite what this article says) and Spirit performed "Taurus" at these shows.

“We did quite a few shows with those guys,” said Mark Andes, Spirit’s founding bassist in an interview with Bloomberg Businessweek. “Not to say they might not have heard it from the record.” According to Bloomberg Businessweek, the bands played concerts together in Detroit at the Grande Ballroom on May 16, 1969; on July 5, 1969, at the Atlanta Pop Festival; and on the closing day of the Seattle Pop Festival, July 27, ‘69; and played on two separate days at the Texas International Pop Festival in late August, ‘69.

[jaidam]

If Spirit win the lawsuit, I would advise the remaining Led Zep members to sue Eric Clapton for ripping off STH on his awesome Let It Grow. Same descending chord sequence, and he must have subconsciously ripped it off. Where will this all end? Music is derivative, and I will not believe creative geniuses such as Led Zep actively chose to copy another song ie Taurus.

Edit to add or better still get spirit to sue Clappeth themselves for ripping off Taurus with Let it grow.

Edited April 14, 2016 by jaidam

[SpokaneAl]

If Spirit win the lawsuit, I would advise the remaining Led Zep members to sue Eric Clapton for ripping off STH on his awesome Let It Grow. Same descending chord sequence, and he must have subconsciously ripped it off. Where will this all end? Music is derivative, and I will not believe creative geniuses such as Led Zep actively chose to copy another song ie Taurus.

Edit to add or better still get spirit to sue Clappeth themselves for ripping off Taurus with Let it grow.

You may well be right, but those "creative geniuses" have a bit of history of ripping off other artists, and a number of times were forced to go back and correct things. That history, rightly or wrongly, causes me to question them here as well.

I find it interesting that a jury will determine the outcome. I don't think that, if I were on the jury, I would have the musical knowledge to render a reasonable judgement.

I am just an old rock and roll lover from way, way, way back.

[Skeptic7]

Well worth reading...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-05-15/led-zeppelins-stairway-to-heaven-vs-dot-spirits-taurus-a-reckoning

[Radar501]

They should come to Thailand. I often hear familiar tunes in Thai pop songs which have probably been pirated from western hits.

Correct!! Thai children always crucify "HAPPY BURT DAY TO YOOO"

[Skeptic7]

If Spirit win the lawsuit, I would advise the remaining Led Zep members to sue Eric Clapton for ripping off STH on his awesome Let It Grow. Same descending chord sequence, and he must have subconsciously ripped it off. Where will this all end? Music is derivative, and I will not believe creative geniuses such as Led Zep actively chose to copy another song ie Taurus.

Edit to add or better still get spirit to sue Clappeth themselves for ripping off Taurus with Let it grow.

Magnificent observation! Not an exact copy like Zep did to Spirit, but very similar. Well done!

[HooHaa]

There are only so many chord progressions. If you learn 6 basic chords you can play almost any Beatles song there is. Listening to the music, I do not think there is a valid claim here. The Led Zep composition for Stairway is far more complex than Taurus.

my thoughts too, it is derivative, but has been quite thoughtfully reworked.

to be honest, i am unclear on the point of dredging it up now.

there has certainly been plenty of time to bring it up, and no judgement in favour of Taurus will change Zepplin's legacy no matter how light fingered the were when i came to inspiration, the end product remains uniquely theirs.

Edit:

ah, just read the article again, it would seem the recent remastering has opened the door for suit.

Edited April 15, 2016 by HooHaa

[Skeptic7]

Huge difference between plagiarism and inspiration. Taurus is to Stairway as Three Blind Mice is to Beethoven's 5th!

While clever, funny and accurate, still rather absurd analogies since no one is claiming that LZ "borrowed" the entire song...just some very prominent music, which was written years prior to Stairway by Randy Wolfe of Spirit. Evidence seems to indicate that Page/Plant heard said music, as the bands played numerous venues together. Not to mention the fact that Zep has a history of "borrowing" from other artists.

[SunsetT]

They should come to Thailand. I often hear familiar tunes in Thai pop songs which have probably been pirated from western hits.

Correct!! Thai children always crucify "HAPPY BURT DAY TO YOOO"

.............555

[donnybay]

Not the first time for Led Zep, here's a list along with a few more songs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_plagiarism

• On Led Zeppelin's album Led Zeppelin II (1969), parts of the song "Bring It On Home" were copied from Sonny Boy Williamson's 1963 recording of "Bring It On Home," written by Willie Dixon. On the same album, "The Lemon Song" included an adaptation of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor." In 1972, Arc Music, the publishing arm of Chess Records, brought a lawsuit against Led Zeppelin for copyright infringement over "Bring It On Home" and "The Lemon Song"; the case was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum.
• Led Zeppelin's song "Whole Lotta Love" contained lyrics that were derivative of Willie Dixon's 1962 song "You Need Love." In 1985, Dixon filed a copyright infringement suit, resulting in an out-of-court settlement. Later pressings of Led Zeppelin II credit Dixon as co-writer.^[24]