US says Russian planes buzzed Navy ship in Baltic Sea

[Thorgal]

This thread is about Russian reckless pilots performing very dangerous simulated strafing runs against a US ship without any coordination or approval from the US. Its not about US or Russian politics or opinions of such.

You forgot to mention that the US Thomas Cook was coming closer to the Russian air base of Kalinigrad.

The Russians responded with a non-aggressive response.

As many other posters mentioned, it is a pure US provocation.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1460693362.816660.jpg

"As many other posters mentioned, it is a pure US provocation."

The USS Donald Cook was 70 miles from land in international waters. That is not provocation.

The SU-24 was within 9 meters and flying below bridge level. THAT is provocation.

The USS Thomas Cook was more than 21 days present in the Baltic Sea.

Which is a clear violation the Montreux Convention, a US-authorized treaty from 1936, which bars outside countries of the Baltic region from keeping warships in the Baltic Sea for more than 21 days.

Moreover, I found it not consistent that some US sailors were filming the Russian jets outside on the main deck. No personnel should be allowed to be outside during confrontation or attacks.

None of them were in combat dress...

Edited April 15, 2016 by Thorgal

[ThailandLOS]

Sorry I thought Russia and the Soviet Union were synonymous terms during the existence of the USSR. Aren't Russia and the USA on opposite sides in Syria? The USA wants Assad gone and Russia wants Assad to stay? Isn't Russia bombing American allies in Syria?

Correct that US wants Assad gone, but not for the reasons they are suggesting, i.e. "to remove the tyrant and bring everlasting peace and democracy to the Syrian people" (have you heard this one before?). The actual reason involves free access to Syrian territory for energy strategic purposes.

Since US wants Assad gone no matter what, a number of the Islamic fanatic groups are supported by the US (compare Taliban support in the Afghan war). These are the ones that Russia are bombing to pieces, as the Russians obviously have their own interests in the region and want to keep Assad in power.

Going back to the Kaliningrad incident, it's just a small piece in the US driven end-game of surrounding Russia's borders and placing pressure on the Russian government and the people of Russia, who don't subscribe to the new world order where everything is dictated out of D.C.

Edited April 15, 2016 by ThailandLOS

[2fishin2]

This thread is about Russian reckless pilots performing very dangerous simulated strafing runs against a US ship without any coordination or approval from the US. Its not about US or Russian politics or opinions of such.

You forgot to mention that the US Thomas Cook was coming closer to the Russian air base of Kalinigrad.

The Russians responded with a non-aggressive response.

As many other posters mentioned, it is a pure US provocation.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1460693362.816660.jpg

"As many other posters mentioned, it is a pure US provocation."

The USS Donald Cook was 70 miles from land in international waters. That is not provocation.

The SU-24 was within 9 meters and flying below bridge level. THAT is provocation.

The USS Thomas Cook was more than 21 days present in the Baltic Sea.

Which is a clear violation the Montreux Convention, a US-authorized treaty from 1936, which bars outside countries of the Baltic region from keeping warships in the Baltic Sea for more than 21 days.

Moreover, I found it not consistent that some US sailors were filming the Russian jets outside on the main deck. No personnel should be allowed to be outside during confrontation or attacks.

None of them were in combat dress...

Hahahah your posts crack me up. They are so full of BS, sounds like an RT newscast.

The reason they weren't in "combat dress" what ever that is, is because there is no combat maybe.

Lol

[craigt3365]

... Go home Yankee, go home. Nobody wants you in the Baltic Sea. ...

That simply is not true. But fun for you to indulge in some cheap America bashing.

And just how would you know that? Are you from any of the Baltic countries and have an idea about the public sentiment on the matter? (note: public, not the US/NATO bought puppet politicians). You would be surprised how many people in Europe are starting to realize who is the actual aggressor here. It's your corrupt government JIng, and not Russia or China.

Talk about a clueless post. I spent month in the Baltics last year. There is no love for russia, especially considering how they were treated under Soviet rule. Do some research on their history. It isn't good. Look up The Baltic Way. That will give you an idea of their thinking.

US aggression? Ask the Ukranians, Syrians, Georgians, or those from chechnya about Russian aggression. LOL

Oh, you spent months(!) in the Baltics last year. And I spent more than 40 years in the region, many of which in the armed forces. So will kindly reject your advice on this matter.

Your rant about Ukraine, Syria and other places where US and its puppet partners in NATO have instigated unrest, shows clearly that you don't have the faintest idea of what you are talking about. Anyone that knows anything on this subject would agree.

Yep. Only a month. But more time than some reading this thread. And it was very educational. If you were there for 40 years, you are Russian? That could explain your bias. Which is understandable. We all have one.

[craigt3365]

Sorry I thought Russia and the Soviet Union were synonymous terms during the existence of the USSR. Aren't Russia and the USA on opposite sides in Syria? The USA wants Assad gone and Russia wants Assad to stay? Isn't Russia bombing American allies in Syria?

Correct that US wants Assad gone, but not for the reasons they are suggesting, i.e. "to remove the tyrant and bring everlasting peace and democracy to the Syrian people" (have you heard this one before?). The actual reason involves free access to Syrian territory for energy strategic purposes.

Since US wants Assad gone no matter what, a number of the Islamic fanatic groups are supported by the US (compare Taliban support in the Afghan war). These are the ones that Russia are bombing to pieces, as the Russians obviously have their own interests in the region and want to keep Assad in power.

Going back to the Kaliningrad incident, it's just a small piece in the US driven end-game of surrounding Russia's borders and placing pressure on the Russian government and the people of Russia, who don't subscribe to the new world order where everything is dictated out of D.C.

Really? The US is almost energy independent. Syria isn't strategic or the actions by the US would have been completely different. Syria is extremely strategic to Russia. But this is off topic.

Wow. Where do you get your info from? Pretty anti US. Best to look at things from both sides of the fence.

[Publicus]

A small part of the Baltic borders Russia to include St. Petersburg. A long way from the US.

Right there at Nato.

St. Petersburg is on the Gulf of Finland which leads to the Baltic Sea.

Directly on the Baltic Sea are Finland and Sweden plus Nato member states Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Germany.

Russia has a tiny enclave on the Baltic wedged between Lithuania and Poland, a foot in the door as it were. Kaliningrad is the Russian base at this wedge that makes the trouble for each of these states. Constantly.

BALTIC SEA (April 12, 2016) A Russian Sukhoi Su-24 attack aircraft makes a very low altitude pass by

USS Donald Cook (DDG 75) April 12, 2016. Donald Cook, an Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer

forward deployed to Rota, Spain, is conducting a routine patrol in the U.S. 6th Fleet area of operations

in support of U.S. national security interests in Europe. (U.S. Navy photo/Released)

Several USN videos are at the following link

https://tacairnet.com/2016/04/13/russian-su-24-fencers-buzz-us-navy-destroyer-in-the-baltic-sea/

Baltic Sea map @ https://www.google.co.in/search?q=map+baltic+countries&biw

[Publicus]

1) What business has USS Donald Cook at Russia's border?

2) Why is this ship still in operation? It was incapacitated by Russian jamming devices already in the 2014 incident in the Black Sea, as noted in the article.

Go home Yankee, go home. Nobody wants you in the Baltic Sea. Just like nobody in the US wants Russian war ships in the Mexican Gulf.

2) Why is this ship still in operation? It was incapacitated by Russian jamming devices already in the 2014 incident in the Black Sea, as noted in the article.

False.

The OP says no such thing. The story presented in your post is a story invented by the Putin fanboyz. The Cook was never incapacitated in any way or to any extent. More Putin fanboy make believe.

Here is the only thing the OP says about the 2014 Russian buzzing of the Cook in the Black Sea:

In April 2014 the Cook reported what it considered provocative actions by an apparently unarmed Russian Su-24 jet that made numerous low passes near the ship in the Black Sea near Romania.

Anything more than that is Putin make believe and propaganda which we've heard before in other incidents that pretend to present some kind of Star Trek mysterious and devastating Russian technology. The stories however don't even rise to the level of Star Wars propaganda.

As soon as I clicked on this thread my computer's bullshit detector went full on.

[LomSak27]

"Going back to the Kaliningrad incident, it's just a small piece in the US driven end-game of surrounding Russia's borders and placing pressure on the Russian government and the people of Russia, who don't subscribe to the new world order where everything is dictated out of D.C."

Say what you will it is good to see what spin they put on these events and then disseminated for the rural poverty stricken Russian masses. Putin and Co., had raised populist propaganda to new heights, they have set the standard. They say Trump's crew have high regard and admiration for this crowd. Likely looking to hire a few for the upcoming struggle. Troll Team, get those CV's up to snuff, you could make some REAL money.

[Scotwight]

What percent of the Black Sea coast is owned by Russia? 13% or 14%. It would be different if they were the dominant force in the region but they are not.

[Yahooka]

This incident doesn`t deserve the publicity it has got.In the 20 years since the Cold War ended incidents like this didn`t happen.But in the last 2-3 years they are on an increase.During the Cold War there where incidents like this on a daily basis and it is just a way to show force which both sides are aware of.We spy and flex our muscles to Russia and China and they do the same back.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Yahooka

[Tywais]

BTW, the Cook has the Mk-15 Phalanx system with a range of around 1.6km plus the Mk 41 VLS and a host of other defensive systems. Any could easily stopped them if there was any real concern. More of a photo op for the sailors and a bit of excitement for the dull daily routines. A Turkish F-16 managed to shoot down a SU-24m without much effort.

[2fishin2]

We do not "flex our muscles" in the same reckless manner. The Russians have always done these stupid tactics.

[Publicus]

You forgot to mention that the US Thomas Cook was coming closer to the Russian air base of Kalinigrad.

The Russians responded with a non-aggressive response.

As many other posters mentioned, it is a pure US provocation.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1460693362.816660.jpg

"As many other posters mentioned, it is a pure US provocation."

The USS Donald Cook was 70 miles from land in international waters. That is not provocation.

The SU-24 was within 9 meters and flying below bridge level. THAT is provocation.

The USS Thomas Cook was more than 21 days present in the Baltic Sea.

Which is a clear violation the Montreux Convention, a US-authorized treaty from 1936, which bars outside countries of the Baltic region from keeping warships in the Baltic Sea for more than 21 days.

Moreover, I found it not consistent that some US sailors were filming the Russian jets outside on the main deck. No personnel should be allowed to be outside during confrontation or attacks.

None of them were in combat dress...

You forgot to mention that the US Thomas Cook was

Thomas Cook is your travel agent which you presumably know something about in a direct contrast to the posts you have made to the thread. The USN warship is the USS Donald Cook DDG 75. So thank me on this because I may have just saved you a big mistake at sea.

It is a flaw to think the Cook or any US warship is alone in its mission. It is covered whether it's in the Black Sea or in the Baltic Sea. The stuff about the Cook going blind in the Black Sea in 2014 is a fairy tale Russians got from Putin to put their hungry children to sleep at night.

The Montreux Convention is about the Dardanelles, Turkey, and Russian shipping, both civilian or military through the Strait and it pertains to the Black Sea and waters between Crimea and the Strait, as well as the waters immediately west of the Strait into the Med. The Montreux Convention has nothing to do with the Baltic Sea, never has had anything to do with the Baltic Sea, never will have anything to do with the Baltic Sea.

So when anyway did the Russians start putting the whole of the Khibiny ECM anti-missile system on their combat aircraft? As of the end of March some of the Khibiny ECM system had been installed on an experimental trial basis, but no Russian Air Force fighter plane had the whole of the system. It is not operational in this respect. Russian AF hopes it can install an operational Khibiny system at some point not too distant over the horizon.

Here is a photo of a Khibiny ECM system tube that the Russian AF said on March 22nd is installed on an

experimental basis. The tube is the word used in translation, and the Russian AF account makes clear

the whole of the system is not inside. The tube is btw clearly on the wingtip and not positioned at the

underbelly of the plane as claimed by another equally lost and confused poster to the thread.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/15665/Russian_Warplanes_To_Be_Fitted_With_Khibiny_Electronic_Countermeasures#.VxEaHdIdDjs

The problem to Russian technology with applying the Khibiny system to its warplanes is that the system is a defensive technology for army tanks trying to fend off TOW anti-tank rockets of the type used in Syria against Syrian army tanks. The Russian army has allowed the Syrian military to use some of the concepts but not the actual Russian system to defend its tanks against rebels. Sometimes the Syrian Khibiny variant works, sometimes it doesn't work so good luck to them in that too.

Russian scientists are meanwhile trying to figure out how to get the tank defense technology onto their rattletrap air force fighters. The Su-24s we're seeing in the current photos taken from aboard the Cook are 1970s heavy bulky and slow flying whales. The Russian AF pilots have to be a throwback to those magnificent men in their flying machines. They definitely pose a serious risk to themselves and to anyone within sight of 'em.

[Jblood]

These Su-24s are from the 70s. The Russians are trying to demonstrate that the US presence in the region is nothing but a show and a farce trying to embolden and agitate the Baltic countries. If the sh*t really hits the fan - the yanks will be first to actually withdraw their troops from there - they will definitely not start a war with Russia over Estonia or whatever. It's not a reckless action - they are doing everything to prevent a conflict. The Russians want normal relations with the Baltics - it's the Russians who set them free in the first place. The Americans DO want an escalation in Europe, as what they organized in Ukraine and Syria. But as we saw with Ukraine and Syria, US just do a lot of skimming and under the table agitation and support on all sides of the conflict - but when all sides start fighting each other - they don't even show up, but act like it's not their problem it's just that the "world" has a problem, and none are better than the Americans... The Americans are pretty much the key root cause to all the conflicts around the world in the last 100 or so years.

In any case, I think almost every average American soldier understands that they have no business even being there. If there's an escalation the US have no chance of winning the conflict - their troops don't want to fight the Russians. But the Russians are saying that they don't mind going Kamikaze on the Americans if they have to - it's not hard to tell who's going to win the conflict if it actually starts - my guess is, it's going to be much worse for the Yanks than the Korea war if they actually try to use force in the region. This is precisely the message that the Russians are trying to send to the Baltics and others - conflict with Russia is what they all should want to avoid, because the Yanks won't show up to help them or will be completely ineffective if it really comes down to any kind of hot engagement against the Russians - pretty much all US troops would poop their pants if they were actually ordered to fire on the Russians - so I don't understand what's the point for them to even be there. The Yanks are really using some of the Baltic countries as their guinea pigs against Russia - nothing more - they couldn't care less about the fate of the people in any of those countries - that's why they are trying to stir up this conflict in the first place. The best case scenario is for the Yanks to get the Russians and their neighbours fighting each other so the Americans can profit from it - as they did so many times before. Whereas the Russians - I think they just want to normalize their relationship with everybody around them, but the Yanks are always getting in the way.

[mopar71]

Talk about a clueless post. I spent month in the Baltics last year. There is no love for russia, especially considering how they were treated under Soviet rule. Do some research on their history. It isn't good. Look up The Baltic Way. That will give you an idea of their thinking.

US aggression? Ask the Ukranians, Syrians, Georgians, or those from chechnya about Russian aggression. LOL

Oh, you spent months(!) in the Baltics last year. And I spent more than 40 years in the region, many of which in the armed forces. So will kindly reject your advice on this matter.

Your rant about Ukraine, Syria and other places where US and its puppet partners in NATO have instigated unrest, shows clearly that you don't have the faintest idea of what you are talking about. Anyone that knows anything on this subject would agree.

There isn't an ethnic Estonian, Latvian or Lithuanian who would agree with you so if you have spent 40 years in the region you did so as a Russian occupier despised by the local population.

Not only that, when you did return to your "rodina" your own kind treated you as a foreigner - "ni nash" - because you were lucky enough to have been living in the Baltics where the people had the highest standard of living across the USSR.

There is a reason NATO jets fly over the Baltics on a daily basis, it is because Russia is intent on probing and instigating. Constantly violating the airspace of the Baltic countries. Funny you never hear of NATO jets flying into Russian airspace.

One of these days, soon, Muscovites will grow a pair like they did 25 years ago and Putin will have his Ceausescu moment plastered around the world on Facebook & YouTube.

[mopar71]

With what ?

The USS Thomas Cook Aegis radar system was jammed for a while.

I'm sure the Master-At-Arms could have broken out the 20s and 50s and have attempted to manually throw lead at the SU-24s, lmao. The Ruskies were probably tweaking their EW gear, gathering data, and providing a flying show for the bridge and those on deck.

The conflict could not ended with downing the SU-24's with a Phalanx.

While jamming the radar system, the S-400 missiles at Kaniningrad would have been operational. Even so, the region is also defended with many submarines with missiles launching capabilities.

It's uncommon to see a solo US destroyer nearing the Russian enclave. Knowing that the Russian S-400 missiles have a target range of 500 kms.

Weapons superiority was on the Russian side...

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-air-force-fears-russias-s-400-europe-14883

Russia has a lot of equipment but it is poorly maintained and the conscripts poorly trained when sober.

Remind me again how many of those cruise missiles Russia launched at Syria crashed in the desert? Oh, at least 4...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/russian-cruise-missiles-crash-iran-en-route-syria/story?id=34351302

How many Russian military planes crashed on the runway over the past year? Not counting the one shot down by an old Turkish F-16

Russia's military aircraft are now crashing from overuse

Russia's Air Force has suffered from a string of crashes over the past month that highlight the country's maintenance and modernization woes.

Since June 4, there have been five major Air Force crashes, USNI News reports. On June 4, a MiG-29 and an Su-34 both crashed. The SU-34 is one of Russia's most advanced fighter jets, and was officially introduced into service in March of 2014.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-military-aircraft-are-crashing-from-overuse-2015-7

Edited April 15, 2016 by mopar71

[mopar71]

Perhaps some of us forgot that the Russian naval base of Kalinigrad is still operational and still docking partially the Russian fleet.

Coming within 70 miles of a foreign naval base without permission is reckless and provocative.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1460717893.237849.jpg

Yeah, they should have received at least a month advance warning so they could take their "ships" out of mothballs.

[Publicus]

The conflict could not ended with downing the SU-24's with a Phalanx.

While jamming the radar system, the S-400 missiles at Kaniningrad would have been operational. Even so, the region is also defended with many submarines with missiles launching capabilities.

It's uncommon to see a solo US destroyer nearing the Russian enclave. Knowing that the Russian S-400 missiles have a target range of 500 kms.

Weapons superiority was on the Russian side...

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-air-force-fears-russias-s-400-europe-14883

Everything went normally, American radars calculated the speed of the approaching target. And suddenly all the screens went blank. “Aegis” was not working any more, and the rockets could not get target information. Meanwhile, Su-24 flew over the deck of the destroyer, did battle turn and simulated missile attack on the target. Then it turned and repeated the maneuver. And did so 12 times.

Apparently, all efforts to revive the “Aegis” and provide target information for the defence failed.

The system with which the Russian Su-24 shocked the American destroyer “Donald Cook” has the code name “Khibiny”. This is the name of the mountain range on the Kola Peninsula in the Arctic Circle. “Khibiny” is the newest complex for radioelectronic jamming of the enemy. They will be installed on all the advanced Russian planes .

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/

Weapons superiority was on the Russian side...

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-air-force-fears-russias-s-400-europe-14883

The Russian Almaz-Antey S-400 Triumf weapons system is an air defense system. It is designed to execute against incoming missiles and airborne offensive weapons. The linked article points out the fact. The S-400 has nothing to do against ships at sea. The linked article points this out. It does not support the wild claim made in the post you quote.

The system with which the Russian Su-24 shocked the American destroyer “Donald Cook” has the code name “Khibiny”. This is the name of the mountain range on the Kola Peninsula in the Arctic Circle. “Khibiny” is the newest complex for radioelectronic jamming of the enemy. They will be installed on all the advanced Russian planes .

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/

Your post raises the question of when the Russians equipped their air forces with the Khibiny S-400 weapons platform and system.

Khibiny S-400 is an air defense system against missiles. US Navy warships do not travel by air.

As of the end of last month, the Russian AF said it is still experimenting with adapting its tank defense system used against TOW missiles fired at tanks to air force fighter-bomber jets as a defensive weapon. The scheme remains presently a plan, not a reality.

The two systems are not the same nor are they connected.

So anyway, what planet do youse Putin fanbois come from that presents to youse all of these humongously superior Russian weapons systems that keep defeating the United States and which the Pentagon doesn't know about and against which it has no defenses. That's quite some planet youse Putin fanbois and con artists are on out there.

[Publicus]

While jamming the radar system, the S-400 missiles at Kaniningrad would have been operational. Even so, the region is also defended with many submarines with missiles launching capabilities.

It's uncommon to see a solo US destroyer nearing the Russian enclave. Knowing that the Russian S-400 missiles have a target range of 500 kms.

Weapons superiority was on the Russian side...

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-air-force-fears-russias-s-400-europe-14883

Everything went normally, American radars calculated the speed of the approaching target. And suddenly all the screens went blank. “Aegis” was not working any more, and the rockets could not get target information. Meanwhile, Su-24 flew over the deck of the destroyer, did battle turn and simulated missile attack on the target. Then it turned and repeated the maneuver. And did so 12 times.

Apparently, all efforts to revive the “Aegis” and provide target information for the defence failed.

The system with which the Russian Su-24 shocked the American destroyer “Donald Cook” has the code name “Khibiny”. This is the name of the mountain range on the Kola Peninsula in the Arctic Circle. “Khibiny” is the newest complex for radioelectronic jamming of the enemy. They will be installed on all the advanced Russian planes .

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/

Well here you have the SU-24 with 2 Khibiny modules just under the wings :

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1460713133.111316.jpg

Cite your authoritative source.

Absent a cited authoritative source, your unlinked photo is a standard photo of a standard Russian Su-24 fighter-bomber the Russian Air Force has been using since the 1970s.

The photo does not show the presence of the Khibiny anti-missile defense system on the Su-24. The reason is that the Khibiny system is not installed on the Russian warplane. The reason for that is the Khibiny system as of the end of last month was still in its experimental and developmental state. What's more, the experimental missile is installed on the Su-24 wingtip, not at or next to the Su-24 underbelly.

www.defenseworld.

The Russian Khibiny anti-missile system is used by Russian tanks to defend against TOW anti-tank missiles. Khibiny was never an air defense system to be used against airborne offensive missiles. Russians are trying to adapt it to use by their warplanes. The system is not yet operational. It is up to this moment only an experimental effort. It is not an accomplished fact.

Russia Claims Its Bomber Jammed U.S. Destroyer

Don’t believe it

A Russian Su-24 bomber buzzed the U.S. Navy destroyer USS Donald Cook in the Black Sea in early April, escalating the military standoff over Ukraine and outraging American officials.

Now Russian media claims that the Su-24 managed to jam Donald Cook’s Aegis air-defense system, which combines radars and long-range missiles. “The algorithm of the radar in the Aegis system on the destroyer did not load under the influence of jamming by the Su-24,” the Russian Radio Website reported.

It’s a bullshit story

https://warisboring.com/russia-claims-its-bomber-jammed-u-s-destroyer-8b58c9b56515#.molx2ukce

Youse Putin fanbois' claims in the posts and photo are absolute hogwash. All claims in either respect are false and they are a conscious Putin con and a deliberate Putin fanbois scam.

[ThailandLOS]

Oh, you spent months(!) in the Baltics last year. And I spent more than 40 years in the region, many of which in the armed forces. So will kindly reject your advice on this matter.

Your rant about Ukraine, Syria and other places where US and its puppet partners in NATO have instigated unrest, shows clearly that you don't have the faintest idea of what you are talking about. Anyone that knows anything on this subject would agree.

Yep. Only a month. But more time than some reading this thread. And it was very educational. If you were there for 40 years, you are Russian? That could explain your bias. Which is understandable. We all have one.

No, I am not Russian, so no bias there. Speaking about education, you might want to pick up a map and see how many countries are neighboring the Baltic Sea, since it seams you were too busy doing other things during your one month stay to notice.

It's never too late to learn something new, you know.

[ThailandLOS]

These Su-24s are from the 70s. The Russians are trying to demonstrate that the US presence in the region is nothing but a show and a farce trying to embolden and agitate the Baltic countries. If the sh*t really hits the fan - the yanks will be first to actually withdraw their troops from there - they will definitely not start a war with Russia over Estonia or whatever. It's not a reckless action - they are doing everything to prevent a conflict. The Russians want normal relations with the Baltics - it's the Russians who set them free in the first place. The Americans DO want an escalation in Europe, as what they organized in Ukraine and Syria. But as we saw with Ukraine and Syria, US just do a lot of skimming and under the table agitation and support on all sides of the conflict - but when all sides start fighting each other - they don't even show up, but act like it's not their problem it's just that the "world" has a problem, and none are better than the Americans... The Americans are pretty much the key root cause to all the conflicts around the world in the last 100 or so years.

In any case, I think almost every average American soldier understands that they have no business even being there. If there's an escalation the US have no chance of winning the conflict - their troops don't want to fight the Russians. But the Russians are saying that they don't mind going Kamikaze on the Americans if they have to - it's not hard to tell who's going to win the conflict if it actually starts - my guess is, it's going to be much worse for the Yanks than the Korea war if they actually try to use force in the region. This is precisely the message that the Russians are trying to send to the Baltics and others - conflict with Russia is what they all should want to avoid, because the Yanks won't show up to help them or will be completely ineffective if it really comes down to any kind of hot engagement against the Russians - pretty much all US troops would poop their pants if they were actually ordered to fire on the Russians - so I don't understand what's the point for them to even be there. The Yanks are really using some of the Baltic countries as their guinea pigs against Russia - nothing more - they couldn't care less about the fate of the people in any of those countries - that's why they are trying to stir up this conflict in the first place. The best case scenario is for the Yanks to get the Russians and their neighbours fighting each other so the Americans can profit from it - as they did so many times before. Whereas the Russians - I think they just want to normalize their relationship with everybody around them, but the Yanks are always getting in the way.

Your analysis is spot on. The purpose of the current US troop deployment to Europe is not military, but merely political. The Yanks have no intention to get into a fight with the Russians, which in any case would be a losing proposition looking at the numbers and capacity. They prefer others to take the fight for them if it comes to that.

The overall purpose with the US mission to Europe is to cut off the growing trade connection between predominantly Germany and Russia, which has succeeded so far, at the expense of the European people.

[mopar71]

The conflict could not ended with downing the SU-24's with a Phalanx.

While jamming the radar system, the S-400 missiles at Kaniningrad would have been operational. Even so, the region is also defended with many submarines with missiles launching capabilities.

It's uncommon to see a solo US destroyer nearing the Russian enclave. Knowing that the Russian S-400 missiles have a target range of 500 kms.

Weapons superiority was on the Russian side...

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-air-force-fears-russias-s-400-europe-14883

Everything went normally, American radars calculated the speed of the approaching target. And suddenly all the screens went blank. “Aegis” was not working any more, and the rockets could not get target information. Meanwhile, Su-24 flew over the deck of the destroyer, did battle turn and simulated missile attack on the target. Then it turned and repeated the maneuver. And did so 12 times.

Apparently, all efforts to revive the “Aegis” and provide target information for the defence failed.

The system with which the Russian Su-24 shocked the American destroyer “Donald Cook” has the code name “Khibiny”. This is the name of the mountain range on the Kola Peninsula in the Arctic Circle. “Khibiny” is the newest complex for radioelectronic jamming of the enemy. They will be installed on all the advanced Russian planes .

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/

Weapons superiority was on the Russian side...

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-air-force-fears-russias-s-400-europe-14883

The Russian Almaz-Antey S-400 Triumf weapons system is an air defense system. It is designed to execute against incoming missiles and airborne offensive weapons. The linked article points out the fact. The S-400 has nothing to do against ships at sea. The linked article points this out. It does not support the wild claim made in the post you quote.

The system with which the Russian Su-24 shocked the American destroyer “Donald Cook” has the code name “Khibiny”. This is the name of the mountain range on the Kola Peninsula in the Arctic Circle. “Khibiny” is the newest complex for radioelectronic jamming of the enemy. They will be installed on all the advanced Russian planes .

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/

Your post raises the question of when the Russians equipped their air forces with the Khibiny S-400 weapons platform and system.

Khibiny S-400 is an air defense system against missiles. US Navy warships do not travel by air.

As of the end of last month, the Russian AF said it is still experimenting with adapting its tank defense system used against TOW missiles fired at tanks to air force fighter-bomber jets as a defensive weapon. The scheme remains presently a plan, not a reality.

The two systems are not the same nor are they connected.

So anyway, what planet do youse Putin fanbois come from that presents to youse all of these humongously superior Russian weapons systems that keep defeating the United States and which the Pentagon doesn't know about and against which it has no defenses. That's quite some planet youse Putin fanbois and con artists are on out there.

Speaking of Russian air defense systems, does anyone here remember this? :D

Are there any Germans here who remember when it happened? What was the feeling toward Rust back home? Hero? Crazy"

[mopar71]

Oh, you spent months(!) in the Baltics last year. And I spent more than 40 years in the region, many of which in the armed forces. So will kindly reject your advice on this matter.

Your rant about Ukraine, Syria and other places where US and its puppet partners in NATO have instigated unrest, shows clearly that you don't have the faintest idea of what you are talking about. Anyone that knows anything on this subject would agree.

Yep. Only a month. But more time than some reading this thread. And it was very educational. If you were there for 40 years, you are Russian? That could explain your bias. Which is understandable. We all have one.

No, I am not Russian, so no bias there. Speaking about education, you might want to pick up a map and see how many countries are neighboring the Baltic Sea, since it seams you were too busy doing other things during your one month stay to notice.

It's never too late to learn something new, you know.

Not (ethnic?) Russian yet spent 40 years in the Baltics, much in the military. Since the Soviet military was not in the habit of stationing its members in their home republic, you most certainly are not of Baltic origin. This policy was instituted because soldiers can't be relied on to shoot their own people at the behest of their masters in the Kremlin.

The USSR had well over 100 nationalities.You support Putin so you likely aren't a native of one of the other 14 former soviet republics who suffered under his beloved USSR & former employer KGB. So that leaves one of the many nationalities found in the Russian Federation, one that would be gullible enough believe Kremlin lies so easily. You have already discounted the obvious choice, Russian, so that leaves only one choice..you must be Chukchi.

Of course you could be Swedish, that would explain a lot too.

Edited April 16, 2016 by mopar71

[mopar71]

The Russians want normal relations with the Baltics - it's the Russians who set them free in the first place.

I am confident that I can speak for the vast majority (+99%) of Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians when I say that your statement is horribly offensive. Is it intended that way or are you sincerely naive? I hope it is the latter.

Anyone reading this who doesn't believe me, remember the post above and next time you meet one of those three nationalities say it to them and watch the expression on their face.

Edited April 16, 2016 by mopar71

[ThailandLOS]

Not (ethnic?) Russian yet spent 40 years in the Baltics, much in the military. Since the Soviet military was not in the habit of stationing its members in their home republic, you most certainly are not of Baltic origin. This policy was instituted because soldiers can't be relied on to shoot their own people at the behest of their masters in the Kremlin.

The USSR had well over 100 nationalities.You support Putin so you likely aren't a native of one of the other 14 former soviet republics who suffered under his beloved USSR & former employer KGB. So that leaves one of the many nationalities found in the Russian Federation, one that would be gullible enough believe Kremlin lies so easily. You have already discounted the obvious choice, Russian, so that leaves only one choice..you must be Chukchi.

Of course you could be Swedish, that would explain a lot too.

Judging from your cold war rhetorics and your pigeon Russian, I would say that your brain froze somewhere between 1989-1991. I'll just stop at that, since you're obviously not used to civil discussions and should return to your regular bar stool post Songkran.

Edited April 16, 2016 by ThailandLOS

[Thorgal]

While jamming the radar system, the S-400 missiles at Kaniningrad would have been operational. Even so, the region is also defended with many submarines with missiles launching capabilities.

It's uncommon to see a solo US destroyer nearing the Russian enclave. Knowing that the Russian S-400 missiles have a target range of 500 kms.

Weapons superiority was on the Russian side...

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-air-force-fears-russias-s-400-europe-14883

Everything went normally, American radars calculated the speed of the approaching target. And suddenly all the screens went blank. “Aegis” was not working any more, and the rockets could not get target information. Meanwhile, Su-24 flew over the deck of the destroyer, did battle turn and simulated missile attack on the target. Then it turned and repeated the maneuver. And did so 12 times.

Apparently, all efforts to revive the “Aegis” and provide target information for the defence failed.

The system with which the Russian Su-24 shocked the American destroyer “Donald Cook” has the code name “Khibiny”. This is the name of the mountain range on the Kola Peninsula in the Arctic Circle. “Khibiny” is the newest complex for radioelectronic jamming of the enemy. They will be installed on all the advanced Russian planes .

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/

Well here you have the SU-24 with 2 Khibiny modules just under the wings :

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1460713133.111316.jpg

Cite your authoritative source.

Absent a cited authoritative source, your unlinked photo is a standard photo of a standard Russian Su-24 fighter-bomber the Russian Air Force has been using since the 1970s.

The photo does not show the presence of the Khibiny anti-missile defense system on the Su-24. The reason is that the Khibiny system is not installed on the Russian warplane. The reason for that is the Khibiny system as of the end of last month was still in its experimental and developmental state. What's more, the experimental missile is installed on the Su-24 wingtip, not at or next to the Su-24 underbelly.

www.defenseworld.

The Russian Khibiny anti-missile system is used by Russian tanks to defend against TOW anti-tank missiles. Khibiny was never an air defense system to be used against airborne offensive missiles. Russians are trying to adapt it to use by their warplanes. The system is not yet operational. It is up to this moment only an experimental effort. It is not an accomplished fact.

Russia Claims Its Bomber Jammed U.S. Destroyer

Don’t believe it

A Russian Su-24 bomber buzzed the U.S. Navy destroyer USS Donald Cook in the Black Sea in early April, escalating the military standoff over Ukraine and outraging American officials.

Now Russian media claims that the Su-24 managed to jam Donald Cook’s Aegis air-defense system, which combines radars and long-range missiles. “The algorithm of the radar in the Aegis system on the destroyer did not load under the influence of jamming by the Su-24,” the Russian Radio Website reported.

It’s a bullshit story

https://warisboring.com/russia-claims-its-bomber-jammed-u-s-destroyer-8b58c9b56515#.molx2ukce

Youse Putin fanbois' claims in the posts and photo are absolute hogwash. All claims in either respect are false and they are a conscious Putin con and a deliberate Putin fanbois scam.

Your post is good, but there's a lack of basic knowledge of Russian warfare equipment.

"The SU-24 was developed in the 70's" statement is correct. The rest is not correct, and I will do my best to explain.

The SU-24 in his design has movable wings. Which makes it impossible for aerodynamics to install the Khibiny modules on the wingtips. The picture I've provided is from a SU-24 with 2 Khibiny modules under the wings. Here's a link of how a Khibiny module looks like.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khibiny_(electronic_countermeasures_system)

Later Sukhoi models have not moving wings, in which you will see the Khibiny modules installed correctly on the wingtips.

Russian tank warfare won't use the Khibiny modules. Although it's off topic, here you have the latest models deployed in Syria by the army of Assad.

Russian electronic warfare has a minimum of 15 years advanced technology to the technology deployed by NATO members.

A minimum knowledge of Russian warfare technology is required in order to be able to discuss the many discrepancies...

Edited April 16, 2016 by Thorgal

[mopar71]

Not (ethnic?) Russian yet spent 40 years in the Baltics, much in the military. Since the Soviet military was not in the habit of stationing its members in their home republic, you most certainly are not of Baltic origin. This policy was instituted because soldiers can't be relied on to shoot their own people at the behest of their masters in the Kremlin.

The USSR had well over 100 nationalities.You support Putin so you likely aren't a native of one of the other 14 former soviet republics who suffered under his beloved USSR & former employer KGB. So that leaves one of the many nationalities found in the Russian Federation, one that would be gullible enough believe Kremlin lies so easily. You have already discounted the obvious choice, Russian, so that leaves only one choice..you must be Chukchi.

Of course you could be Swedish, that would explain a lot too.

Judging from your cold war rhetorics and your pigeon Russian, I would say that your brain froze somewhere between 1989-1991. I'll just stop at that, since you're obviously not used to civil discussions and should return to your regular bar stool post Songkran.

And you have been called out as not having a clue how people in the Baltics feel about Russia and the USA. You can try to fool some of the people here, but only the ones who need Google to learn anything about the region and its history.

[geriatrickid]

A small part of the Baltic borders Russia to include St. Petersburg. A long way from the US.

The vessel was in INTERNATIONAL waters/ What part of that did you not understand? Russian naval vessels regularly sail in international waters off of Canada and Sweden. When is the last time RCAF or Swedish fighters engaged in immature and dangerous activities over a those vessels? The US naval vessels were there at the invitation of sovereign Baltic nations. Who invited the Russians to the waters off of Sweden and Canada?

[Jblood]

The Russians want normal relations with the Baltics - it's the Russians who set them free in the first place.

I am confident that I can speak for the vast majority (+99%) of Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians when I say that your statement is horribly offensive. Is it intended that way or are you sincerely naive? I hope it is the latter.

Anyone reading this who doesn't believe me, remember the post above and next time you meet one of those three nationalities say it to them and watch the expression on their face.

Did you read the rest of my post?

[Thorgal]

The conflict could not ended with downing the SU-24's with a Phalanx.

While jamming the radar system, the S-400 missiles at Kaniningrad would have been operational. Even so, the region is also defended with many submarines with missiles launching capabilities.

It's uncommon to see a solo US destroyer nearing the Russian enclave. Knowing that the Russian S-400 missiles have a target range of 500 kms.

Weapons superiority was on the Russian side...

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-air-force-fears-russias-s-400-europe-14883

Everything went normally, American radars calculated the speed of the approaching target. And suddenly all the screens went blank. “Aegis” was not working any more, and the rockets could not get target information. Meanwhile, Su-24 flew over the deck of the destroyer, did battle turn and simulated missile attack on the target. Then it turned and repeated the maneuver. And did so 12 times.

Apparently, all efforts to revive the “Aegis” and provide target information for the defence failed.

The system with which the Russian Su-24 shocked the American destroyer “Donald Cook” has the code name “Khibiny”. This is the name of the mountain range on the Kola Peninsula in the Arctic Circle. “Khibiny” is the newest complex for radioelectronic jamming of the enemy. They will be installed on all the advanced Russian planes .

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/

Weapons superiority was on the Russian side...

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-air-force-fears-russias-s-400-europe-14883

The Russian Almaz-Antey S-400 Triumf weapons system is an air defense system. It is designed to execute against incoming missiles and airborne offensive weapons. The linked article points out the fact. The S-400 has nothing to do against ships at sea. The linked article points this out. It does not support the wild claim made in the post you quote.

The system with which the Russian Su-24 shocked the American destroyer “Donald Cook” has the code name “Khibiny”. This is the name of the mountain range on the Kola Peninsula in the Arctic Circle. “Khibiny” is the newest complex for radioelectronic jamming of the enemy. They will be installed on all the advanced Russian planes .

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/11/13/aegis-fail-in-black-sea-ruskies-burn-down-uss-donald-duck/

Your post raises the question of when the Russians equipped their air forces with the Khibiny S-400 weapons platform and system.

Khibiny S-400 is an air defense system against missiles. US Navy warships do not travel by air.

As of the end of last month, the Russian AF said it is still experimenting with adapting its tank defense system used against TOW missiles fired at tanks to air force fighter-bomber jets as a defensive weapon. The scheme remains presently a plan, not a reality.

The two systems are not the same nor are they connected.

So anyway, what planet do youse Putin fanbois come from that presents to youse all of these humongously superior Russian weapons systems that keep defeating the United States and which the Pentagon doesn't know about and against which it has no defenses. That's quite some planet youse Putin fanbois and con artists are on out there.

Russian S-400 missiles can be deployed in naval warfare.

USS Thomas Cook is equipped with Tomahawk cruise missiles which can be easily neutralised with the S-400 Russian defense missiles. Those S-400 battalions installed in Kalinigrad are within target range of the US Thomas Cook.

NATO expressed its concerns due to latest S-400 mobilisation in January 2016 in Kalinigrad.

Your quote : "Your post raises the question of when the Russians equipped their Air Forces with the Khibiny S-400 weapons platform and system"

=>The latest S-400 battalions were deployed in January 2016 :

http://osnetdaily.com/2016/01/russias-buildup-of-s-400-missile-batteries-in-kaliningrad-is-freaking-out-nato/

=>The Khibiny module installed on the SU-24's is logically unknown.

Your quote : "The scheme remains presently a plan, not a reality.

=>Here again it's a little bit off topic, but you can use the knowledge for future threads. Russian tank defense systems were already performant in the 80's with the 9M119 modules.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M119

Latest update of another tank defense system can be seen here and fully operational in Syria:

http://defence-blog.com/army/in-syria-spotted-new-protection-system-for-tanks-and-armored-vehicles.html

Cheers !

Edited April 16, 2016 by Thorgal