US military units to stay for South China Sea patrols

[ilostmypassword]

of course it is. burma is being raped, thai is looking to them for arms and a new train line.

You're both right. It's a mixed bag. China has, for years, been very active and somewhat successful in buying the support of small countries. The UN has just over 200 member countries, but about a quarter are very small. At least a dozen are islands in the Pacific. In the UN General Assembly, each country gets one vote. So a vote from Samoa or the Cape Verde Islands counts for as much as a vote from the USA or Russia. China wants and needs those votes for various reasons. For example, it keeps Taiwan from being recognized as a country. It shuts up any discussion on Tibet. China's gifts and money get little countries like The Gambia to side with it re; the Phil islands the SCS debacle. Taiwan is doing similar, but doesn't have as much clout as China, so isn't as successful.

How hard would it be to woo a place like Tonga or Belize? First you meet with the leader, then offer money, gifts, privileges, trade advantages. Years before I chose to move to Thailand, I was considering moving to Belize. While there, I was able to meet with 2 Ministers without even trying (we sort of bumped in to each other). It was as easy as meeting with the doorman of a big hotel. You can cross the whole country, from its border with Guatemala to the Atlantic coast in 1 hour on a bicycle.

Thailand doesn't have to be bought off by China. China knocks on the door, and Thailand rolls over with its paws in the air like a silly puppy.

Buying off countries that have no potential for territorial with China is no big deal. But when it comes to who owns what in the South China Sea, that's a different matter. As for Thailand just rolling over, I guess you don't follow the news. Thailand just rejected the Chinese terms for building a rail line in Thailand. The Chinese treated the Thailand like it was Laos and asked for too much.

Edited May 7, 2016 by ilostmypassword

[LawrenceChee]

Rear Admiral Mark M. Just said today a armed clash between the 2 navies is very unlikely and risk is still pretty Low

By the way the Chinese have allowed USS Ridge to dock in Shanghai after the recent no in HK ports for other aircraft carriers

Good to show the "cosmopolitan make believe cousin " where the power seat is

Soon Mickey Mouse will be holding a dish asking for dim sum in Hong Kong when the Shanghai Disney opens as well.

Jokes aside - the recent racial profiling in HK led to the lowest Labor Day holiday influx from mainland China to HK . Disneyland has started laying off it's casual workforce and lots in the hospitality business can forgo their annual bonuses and the same goes for those in the retail business

It was sad walking through the shops last month ...almost empty which is really unusual

[chuckd]

Mr. Chee:

Just a little suggestion.

Don't continue underestimating the US military.

The military doesn't lose wars...the US politicians do.

[LawrenceChee]

Mr. Chee:

Just a little suggestion.

Don't continue underestimating the US military.

The military doesn't lose wars...the US politicians do.

Chuckd - I agree with your last line ; hence its good to know for the next four years , both current contenders are not real threats to peace or have any intention to start any unnecessary wars. They like to talk tough but I don't believe either has the money or guts to head into a real conflict

It's the same with the CCP who have not started any in the last 50 years

- as for underestimating the USA military, no one would argue they have the most technological weapons in the planet right now and probably can pound most countries into submission ( Russian and China not included) ; the unfortunate and uncomfortable truth is the combined technology has not won them any Long term success or objectives they set out to do in the Middle East in the last 20 years for each of the wars they started or participated in

The lack of a strong ground ability : strategy means any early victories with the advance air technology becomes muted after a while when the casualties mount or the resistance becomes intense

So a little suggestion ....try to elect better Politicians.

Edited May 7, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[Scotwight]

Mr. Chee:

Just a little suggestion.

Don't continue underestimating the US military.

The military doesn't lose wars...the US politicians do.

Chuckd - I agree with your last line ; hence its good to know for the next four years , both current contenders are not real threats to peace or have any intention to start any unnecessary wars. They like to talk tough but I don't believe either has the money or guts to head into a real conflict

It's the same with the CCP who have not started any in the last 50 years

- as for underestimating the USA military, no one would argue they have the most technological weapons in the planet right now and probably can pound most countries into submission ( Russian and China not included) ; the unfortunate and uncomfortable truth is the combined technology has not won them any Long term success or objectives they set out to do in the Middle East in the last 20 years for each of the wars they started or participated in

The lack of a strong ground ability : strategy means any early victories with the advance air technology becomes muted after a while when the casualties mount or the resistance becomes intense

So a little suggestion ....try to elect better Politicians.

Six Wars China Is Sure to Fight In the Next 50 Years

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/six-wars-china-is-sure-to-fight-in-the-next-50-years/

Edited May 7, 2016 by Scotwight

[tonbridgebrit]

If a Potus steps aside and makes way for Congress to hammer the CCP youse guyz would be put in a disarray ranging from currency to finance and to your economy -- across the board.

Since Nixon in 1972 each Potus has accommodated the CCP in almost every respect. Congress meanwhile has been sat on in its widespread opposition to enriching the CCP Boyz throughout the PRC.

If a Potus pulls the lever to open the gates to Congress, or if a Potus decides to cooperate with the CCP-hostile Congress -- or grabs the flag to lead it -- CCP won't know what hit it.

Worry warts who btw lie awake at night in cold sweats concerning Walmart et al would need in such an event to take it up with the Congress. Congress on both sides of the aisle in both chambers has always been hostile toward fattening up the Boyz. Always. Very against.

"If a Potus steps aside and makes way for Congress to hammer the CCP youse guyz would be put in a disarray ranging from currency to finance and to your economy -- across the board."

Publicus, you're correct there.

"Worry warts who btw lie awake at night in cold sweats concerning Walmart et al would need in such an event to take it up with the Congress. Congress on both sides of the aisle in both chambers has always been hostile toward fattening up the Boyz. Always. Very against."

Look, we all know that America is not interested in fattening up Beijing. But Walmart is the issue. America wants to import the cheap Chinese manfactured goods, and it's certainly not doing it because it wants to benefit China. It's doing it, because, because it benefits America !

And here's the point. Washington knows that China is harmless. Yes, people like you and others might bang the anti-China drum, but Washington knows what the real deal is. Why do you demonise China, when you know that China is harmless ?

And yes, this South China Sea confrontation is actually nothing. Washington is pretending (making it look like) that there is a problem. Washington has no intent to fire any missiles at these little Chinese dots in the middle of the sea. But Washington still goes and sends a few warships into the area, got to make it look like that it is checking up on China, even though this stuff being done by Beijing IS harmless.

[55Jay]

Harmless. LOL.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Mr. Chee:

Just a little suggestion.

Don't continue underestimating the US military.

The military doesn't lose wars...the US politicians do.

Chuckd - I agree with your last line ; hence its good to know for the next four years , both current contenders are not real threats to peace or have any intention to start any unnecessary wars. They like to talk tough but I don't believe either has the money or guts to head into a real conflict

It's the same with the CCP who have not started any in the last 50 years

- as for underestimating the USA military, no one would argue they have the most technological weapons in the planet right now and probably can pound most countries into submission ( Russian and China not included) ; the unfortunate and uncomfortable truth is the combined technology has not won them any Long term success or objectives they set out to do in the Middle East in the last 20 years for each of the wars they started or participated in

The lack of a strong ground ability : strategy means any early victories with the advance air technology becomes muted after a while when the casualties mount or the resistance becomes intense

So a little suggestion ....try to elect better Politicians.

Six Wars China Is Sure to Fight In the Next 50 Years

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/six-wars-china-is-sure-to-fight-in-the-next-50-years/

Their math skills or sense of scale is not very good: "In the days of “Old China”, Russia has occupied around one hundred and sixty million square kilometre of lands, equivalent to one-sixth of the landmass of current domain of China."

It should of course be 16,000 km2.

China will not survive as a nation they try to take on Russia. Moscow will have no second thoughts about nuking Beijing.

[tonbridgebrit]

Harmless. LOL.

55Jay, IF Washington reckoned that China was a danger to America, well, Washington would simply massively reduce the vast amount of goods that America imports from China. We all know that China has a huge trade surplus with the rest of the world, a big part of that trade surplus is made up of the surplus with America.

Now, IF China was a threat to America, why on earth would America carry on importing a mountain of Chinese goods ?

And yes, Publicus is correct when he claims that Washington really can cause Beijing to collapse. America reducing it's imports of Chinese goods (and ordering Japan to also reduce it's importing of Chinese goods) will cause the yuan (China's currency) to collapse, and China's economy would also collapse. America reducing it's imports from China in a big way, will cause the flood of Chinese tourists in Pattaya and Thailand to become massively reduced.

And yes, if the cost of goods at Walmart goes up (due to taxes being put onto the Chinese goods), by one-third. Lots of Americans will be unhappy, but that's not going to remove the Washington government.

[tonbridgebrit]

Six Wars China Is Sure to Fight In the Next 50 Years

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/six-wars-china-is-sure-to-fight-in-the-next-50-years/

Their math skills or sense of scale is not very good: "In the days of “Old China”, Russia has occupied around one hundred and sixty million square kilometre of lands, equivalent to one-sixth of the landmass of current domain of China."

It should of course be 16,000 km2.

China will not survive as a nation they try to take on Russia. Moscow will have no second thoughts about nuking Beijing.

Hello Expatoilworker.

That website from 'indiandefencereview'. It's purely opinions from whatever writer.

In my opinion, all that is just silly talk. The stuff is just trying to make it look like that China is a dangerous nation, and a threat to other countries.

And yes, we see Publicus here doing a similar thing, constantly demonising China, making it look like that China is a threat to the world.

In reality, China is only interested in exporting a load of goods and earning some money from it. Money, yes, that's what Chinese people and China actually want.

[boomerangutang]

And here's the point. Washington knows that China is harmless. Yes, people like you and others might bang the anti-China drum, but Washington knows what the real deal is. Why do you demonise China, when you know that China is harmless ?

And yes, this South China Sea confrontation is actually nothing. Washington is pretending (making it look like) that there is a problem. Washington has no intent to fire any missiles at these little Chinese dots in the middle of the sea. But Washington still goes and sends a few warships into the area, got to make it look like that it is checking up on China, even though this stuff being done by Beijing IS harmless.

I don't agree "the South China Sea confrontation is actually nothing." It's something, and that's why there's so much discussion here and elsewhere.

China is not harmless. China is occupying other countries' territory. That's not harmless. Just because they didn't gain those territories by armed invasion (as they did in Tibet in the 1950's) doesn't mean they're harmless or peaceful. If I take your wife, kids and car and lock you out of your house, am I being harmless? Even if I do it without any violence or weapons, is it still harmless?

Hello Expatoilworker.

That website from 'indiandefencereview'. It's purely opinions from whatever writer.

In my opinion, all that is just silly talk. The stuff is just trying to make it look like that China is a dangerous nation, and a threat to other countries.

And yes, we see Publicus here doing a similar thing, constantly demonising China, making it look like that China is a threat to the world.

In reality, China is only interested in exporting a load of goods and earning some money from it. Money, yes, that's what Chinese people and China actually want.

Yes Chinese worship amassing money, probably more than most other people. But to gain economic power, one needs to gain resources. China's territory grab in the SCS is just as much a resource grab.

You can try to sugar-coat it, but the proof is in the pudding. Recently there were just little rock islands off the Phil coast with no people. Now there are terraformed islands with airstrips, weapons and people stationed there from hundreds of kM away who have given the islands Chinese-sounding names and now claim them as their own. Connect the dots.

[AYJAYDEE]

Western countries came to the realization that fish stocks were in dire trouble. They then went and did many things (legislation, patrols, protected zones, further studies) to try and get a semblance of health back. What have Asians done for their depleted zones? I ask that seriously, because I honestly don't know everything that's going on. I've heard that Korean fishermen are troubled by profusions of giant jellyfish (yuck). And while you're putting together an answer to my Q, please tell me what Asian countries are doing about the Great Pacific Trash Vortex which they created? Something tells me I won't get answers to my questions.

they did nothing until it was far too late, in fact the governments were denying there was a problem on the banks long after scientific studies warned them. don't ask me what rapacious asian nations are doing, I'm merely pointing out western nations have been just as rapacious.

Even in your valiant attempts to be contrary, you're making my point. Western countries did studies and, over time, took dynamic action to try to rectify over-fishing problems. There are still problems, but there are also some success stories.

What I'm saying is, A. I don't think Asian countries are even doing studies.

B. Furthermore, I don't think Asian countries are taking any tangible action to restore healthy seas.

Asian fishermen are going everywhere they can to get shark fins. Japanese are still fishing whales. Asian fishermen are in the Mediterranean taking out the last tuna.

Of course, non-Asians are over-fishing also. Asians, in general, don't seem to be studying or dealing effectively with the dire problems of over-fishing and sea pollution. I'm challenging you to prove me wrong, but all you can do is write: "Western countries do it too!"

Name one thing any Asian country has done to address the dire problem of the Pacific Trash Vortex. Are they even aware of it? Perhaps that's yet another of the thousands of topics which are censored in China.

dont be ridiculous. they took no action on the banks until the cod were GONE . and I said nothing about what asians do or dont do. all i'm sayin is its always the same with western countries. "Do as I say not as I do" lol. we trash our environment to make money and become top of the heap and then tell others they cant do what we did! the height of arrogance

[Publicus]

Mr. Chee:

Just a little suggestion.

Don't continue underestimating the US military.

The military doesn't lose wars...the US politicians do.

Chuckd - I agree with your last line ; hence its good to know for the next four years , both current contenders are not real threats to peace or have any intention to start any unnecessary wars. They like to talk tough but I don't believe either has the money or guts to head into a real conflict

It's the same with the CCP who have not started any in the last 50 years

- as for underestimating the USA military, no one would argue they have the most technological weapons in the planet right now and probably can pound most countries into submission ( Russian and China not included) ; the unfortunate and uncomfortable truth is the combined technology has not won them any Long term success or objectives they set out to do in the Middle East in the last 20 years for each of the wars they started or participated in

The lack of a strong ground ability : strategy means any early victories with the advance air technology becomes muted after a while when the casualties mount or the resistance becomes intense

So a little suggestion ....try to elect better Politicians.

The lack of a strong ground ability : strategy means any early victories with the advance air technology becomes muted after a while when the casualties mount or the resistance becomes intense

The statement is due to being either slow or oblivious.

The Air-Land warfare since WW II is out and Air-Sea Battle is the new US warfighting doctrine since 2010.

Land operations are now limited to special operations forces to include those of the Navy and Air Force. No divisions of armor, infantry, artillery-rockets maneuvering on vast spaces of land. No more. Wind down in Afghanistan and use special operations forces against Daesh and the like. Nothing anywhere bigger than a brigade of 5000 troops max in a combat unit, as recently injected into Nato.

The Air-Sea Battle doctrine officially adopted by the US in 2010 has not had an occasion to make its presence known. The same can be said for the CCP and its A2/AD systems of 21st century warfare -- Anti-Access and Area Denial.

A2/AD warfare is to keep the enemy out while destroying him but, alas, Air-Sea Battle is to smash the other guy's military to keep it from accomplishing anything. The Pentagon's Air-Sea Battle warfare is aggressive as all holy hell, and for CCP it is the PLA Second Artillery Force which has almost all the missiles. For each side, it is about missiles, ships and planes coming and going to include submarines. Keep off the grass land except for light and mobile special ops forces and US Marines especially.

Do try to keep up plse thx cause I have to keep posting this new stuff that nobody's heard of as formal war doctrine by CCP and USA. Again, no more Air-Land Battle stuff that saw its great success in WW II only (N. Africa, Europe, Eurasia-Russia) and in the limited 1st Gulf War (1990).

Air-Sea Battle is the new way to fight. Some of the new toys each side has may get some measure of testing in the SCS. One shouldn't be surprised if some small scale and low intensity incidents do occur between the antagonists.

The one thing Americans can't tolerate is USN ships getting attacked or, worse, blown up and sunk. CCP needs to know that from the past century in the Asia-Pacific.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Publicus

[tonbridgebrit]

Mr. Chee:

Just a little suggestion.

Don't continue underestimating the US military.

The military doesn't lose wars...the US politicians do.

Chuckd - I agree with your last line ; hence its good to know for the next four years , both current contenders are not real threats to peace or have any intention to start any unnecessary wars. They like to talk tough but I don't believe either has the money or guts to head into a real conflict

It's the same with the CCP who have not started any in the last 50 years

- as for underestimating the USA military, no one would argue they have the most technological weapons in the planet right now and probably can pound most countries into submission ( Russian and China not included) ; the unfortunate and uncomfortable truth is the combined technology has not won them any Long term success or objectives they set out to do in the Middle East in the last 20 years for each of the wars they started or participated in

The lack of a strong ground ability : strategy means any early victories with the advance air technology becomes muted after a while when the casualties mount or the resistance becomes intense

So a little suggestion ....try to elect better Politicians.

The lack of a strong ground ability : strategy means any early victories with the advance air technology becomes muted after a while when the casualties mount or the resistance becomes intense

The statement is due to being either slow or oblivious.

The Air-Land warfare since WW II is out and Air-Sea Battle is the new US warfighting doctrine since 2010.

Land operations are now limited to special operations forces to include those of the Navy and Air Force. No divisions of armor, infantry, artillery-rockets maneuvering on vast spaces of land. No more. Wind down in Afghanistan and use special operations forces against Daesh and the like. Nothing anywhere bigger than a brigade of 5000 troops max in a combat unit, as recently injected into Nato.

The Air-Sea Battle doctrine officially adopted by the US in 2010 has not had an occasion to make its presence known. The same can be said for the CCP and its A2/AD systems of 21st century warfare -- Anti-Access and Area Denial.

A2/AD warfare is to keep the enemy out while destroying him but, alas, Air-Sea Battle is to smash the other guy's military to keep it from accomplishing anything. The Pentagon's Air-Sea Battle warfare is aggressive as all holy hell, and for CCP it is the PLA Second Artillery Force which has almost all the missiles. For each side, it is about missiles, ships and planes coming and going to include submarines.

Do try to keep up plse thx cause I have to keep posting this new stuff that nobody's heard of as formal war doctrine by CCP and USA. Again, no more Air-Land Battle stuff that saw its great success in WW II only. Air-Sea Battle is the new way to fight. Some of the new toys each side has may get some measure of testing in the SCS. One shouldn't be surprised if some small scale and low intensity incidents do occur between the antagonists.

The one thing Americans can't tolerate is USN ships getting attacked or, worse, blown up and sunk. CCP needs to know that from the past century in the Asia-Pacific.

Publicus, here we (actually, you) go again.

You go into gory detail about the philosophy and strategy of the US Navy. About their tactics.

You end by making the staggering comment "The one thing Americans can't tolerate is USN ships getting attacked or, worse, blown up and sunk. CCP needs to know that from the past century in the Asia-Pacific."

Oh, so America does NOT want it's ships being attacked or blown up, or sunk ?? My God, what a massive comment.

Publicus, Laos does not have a coast-line, but surely, it's got patrol boats and other naval craft on it's rivers and lakes. And, oh look, Laos does NOT tolerate it's patrol boats and other naval craft being attacked, or blown up, or sunk.

Publicus, China is NOT interested in attacking any US naval craft. As long as America's navy vessels do NOT fire any missiles on any Chinese dots, or islands, things are okay.

[AYJAYDEE]

Mr. Chee:

Just a little suggestion.

Don't continue underestimating the US military.

The military doesn't lose wars...the US politicians do.

Chuckd - I agree with your last line ; hence its good to know for the next four years , both current contenders are not real threats to peace or have any intention to start any unnecessary wars. They like to talk tough but I don't believe either has the money or guts to head into a real conflict

It's the same with the CCP who have not started any in the last 50 years

- as for underestimating the USA military, no one would argue they have the most technological weapons in the planet right now and probably can pound most countries into submission ( Russian and China not included) ; the unfortunate and uncomfortable truth is the combined technology has not won them any Long term success or objectives they set out to do in the Middle East in the last 20 years for each of the wars they started or participated in

The lack of a strong ground ability : strategy means any early victories with the advance air technology becomes muted after a while when the casualties mount or the resistance becomes intense

So a little suggestion ....try to elect better Politicians.

The lack of a strong ground ability : strategy means any early victories with the advance air technology becomes muted after a while when the casualties mount or the resistance becomes intense

The statement is due to being either slow or oblivious.

The Air-Land warfare since WW II is out and Air-Sea Battle is the new US warfighting doctrine since 2010.

Land operations are now limited to special operations forces to include those of the Navy and Air Force. No divisions of armor, infantry, artillery-rockets maneuvering on vast spaces of land. No more. Wind down in Afghanistan and use special operations forces against Daesh and the like. Nothing anywhere bigger than a brigade of 5000 troops max in a combat unit, as recently injected into Nato.

The Air-Sea Battle doctrine officially adopted by the US in 2010 has not had an occasion to make its presence known. The same can be said for the CCP and its A2/AD systems of 21st century warfare -- Anti-Access and Area Denial.

A2/AD warfare is to keep the enemy out while destroying him but, alas, Air-Sea Battle is to smash the other guy's military to keep it from accomplishing anything. The Pentagon's Air-Sea Battle warfare is aggressive as all holy hell, and for CCP it is the PLA Second Artillery Force which has almost all the missiles. For each side, it is about missiles, ships and planes coming and going to include submarines.

Do try to keep up plse thx cause I have to keep posting this new stuff that nobody's heard of as formal war doctrine by CCP and USA. Again, no more Air-Land Battle stuff that saw its great success in WW II only. Air-Sea Battle is the new way to fight. Some of the new toys each side has may get some measure of testing in the SCS. One shouldn't be surprised if some small scale and low intensity incidents do occur between the antagonists.

The one thing Americans can't tolerate is USN ships getting attacked or, worse, blown up and sunk. CCP needs to know that from the past century in the Asia-Pacific.

Publicus, here we (actually, you) go again.

You go into gory detail about the philosophy and strategy of the US Navy. About their tactics.

You end by making the staggering comment "The one thing Americans can't tolerate is USN ships getting attacked or, worse, blown up and sunk. CCP needs to know that from the past century in the Asia-Pacific."

Oh, so America does NOT want it's ships being attacked or blown up, or sunk ?? My God, what a massive comment.

Publicus, Laos does not have a coast-line, but surely, it's got patrol boats and other naval craft on it's rivers and lakes. And, oh look, Laos does NOT tolerate it's patrol boats and other naval craft being attacked, or blown up, or sunk.

Publicus, China is NOT interested in attacking any US naval craft. As long as America's navy vessels do NOT fire any missiles on any Chinese dots, or islands, things are okay.

incredible

[tonbridgebrit]

Yes Publicus, thank you for telling us about the latest doctrine and strategy of the US Navy, and also the Chinese Navy.

Okay, I do think certain things will always hold true. This stuff, it's NOT for free, it costs money. And lot's of tax-payers money (public money, government money) is being spent on it.

And also, all this stuff, at the end of the day, it IS actually about trying to kill people who are on whatever floating vessel in the sea.

[LawrenceChee]

Comrade P

By all your details R2D2 and C3PO ....there is one major flaw ...and you have identified it yourself

With the USA military concentration of air / artillery in trying to plummet the other opponent to submission , it is the lack of ground ability which is the key reason why most of the recent initiatives in the Middle East have failed. Special forces cannot win wars and this is where ISIS have you literally by the neck

Fact #1 You cannot plummet China or Russia into submission.

Fact #2 You cannot engage civilian targets which is why your cutter crafts continue to patrol but cannot engage the civilian dredging

Fact #3 the CCP know it is likely the USA navy will fire first and hence they win the moral victory at the UN ; do remember this is still a communist country and sacrificing for the national cause deems you a national hero

Fact #4 the CCP have one of the largest land force in the world ; they have a crazy neighbor with Kim and if he throws his towel in with CCP in a moment of desperation , the US military units can't do much as long as they stay put waiting for your special forces to land

And no this time they won't be giving you HK when they lose ...Because they won't be losing

[LawrenceChee]

Oops I forgot where is my manners ....Happy weekend everyone !

[Publicus]

Comrade P

By all your details R2D2 and C3PO ....there is one major flaw ...and you have identified it yourself

With the USA military concentration of air / artillery in trying to plummet the other opponent to submission , it is the lack of ground ability which is the key reason why most of the recent initiatives in the Middle East have failed. Special forces cannot win wars and this is where ISIS have you literally by the neck

Fact #1 You cannot plummet China or Russia into submission.

Fact #2 You cannot engage civilian targets which is why your cutter crafts continue to patrol but cannot engage the civilian dredging

Fact #3 the CCP know it is likely the USA navy will fire first and hence they win the moral victory at the UN ; do remember this is still a communist country and sacrificing for the national cause deems you a national hero

Fact #4 the CCP have one of the largest land force in the world ; they have a crazy neighbor with Kim and if he throws his towel in with CCP in a moment of desperation , the US military units can't do much as long as they stay put waiting for your special forces to land

And no this time they won't be giving you HK when they lose ...Because they won't be losing

it is the lack of ground ability which is the key reason why most of the recent initiatives in the Middle East have failed. Special forces cannot win wars and this is where ISIS have you literally by the neck

US and allies and partners are not going to get involved in a land war on a land mass in Asia or anywhere else in the world.

In respect of Islands in the SCS, it is conceivable, yes -- on a land mass no. Y'know, land mass, as in a continent such as Asia, or an area of a continent such as the Middle East (Asia Minor).

Thoze dayze are gone, yet you (along with many others) keep fighting the last war, i.e., Air-Land battle. SCS will not be a war, but is is an Air-Sea military operation. It is not an Air-Land operation as were WW II, Korean Conflict, the Vietnam war, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia et al.

No one is occupying anything in the SCS except the CCP Dictators in Beijing who are 19th century revanchist and irredentist in their unlawful seizing of existing islands, the illegal construction of new and artificial islands that themselves and legally are not islands, and who arbitrarily and summarily pronounce 90% ownership of the South China Sea, AKA known in Vietnam as its East Sea, and, across the water, is known as the West Sea in and of the Philippines.

Again, US is not going to attack the CCP China. Your CCP brethren and cities are safe from external attack by the US. This is about the SCS and the likelihood of some one-off shooting incidents or a series of brief and limited trigger pulling by each side, not major combat. Anything can happen under the developing SCS circumstances imposed by CCP, but the US conducting a major military assault on the CCP mainland is out of the question. Why don't you get that??? You seem unable to understand or comprehend any of this SCS stuff. You make an existing dangerously escalating situation into a more risky business than it was to begin with.

[keemapoot]

Pub, you seem to be trimming back your hawkishness. You went from proposing a blockade from Shanghai to Hong Kong, and talking everything short of full engagement to now a more reasonable position. So, these threads are good if they succeed in bringing people to more reasonable positions.

The coming Hague ruling, together with the cooperation we are now seeing among Philippines, Malaysia, Indo on terrorism and sea piracy, together with US commitment and Japanese support will have gain some critical mass in bringing allies together to bring pressure on China with respect to the Philippines claim.

There will be a different fight with each player, Vietnam, etc., and we will have to see how much the Hague ruling gives to other parties.

I'm pretty confident there will be a gradual, though hard-fought concession by China in most of these areas, with some sort of mutual use agreements.

[LawrenceChee]

Comrade P

By all your details R2D2 and C3PO ....there is one major flaw ...and you have identified it yourself

With the USA military concentration of air / artillery in trying to plummet the other opponent to submission , it is the lack of ground ability which is the key reason why most of the recent initiatives in the Middle East have failed. Special forces cannot win wars and this is where ISIS have you literally by the neck

Fact #1 You cannot plummet China or Russia into submission.

Fact #2 You cannot engage civilian targets which is why your cutter crafts continue to patrol but cannot engage the civilian dredging

Fact #3 the CCP know it is likely the USA navy will fire first and hence they win the moral victory at the UN ; do remember this is still a communist country and sacrificing for the national cause deems you a national hero

Fact #4 the CCP have one of the largest land force in the world ; they have a crazy neighbor with Kim and if he throws his towel in with CCP in a moment of desperation , the US military units can't do much as long as they stay put waiting for your special forces to land

And no this time they won't be giving you HK when they lose ...Because they won't be losing

it is the lack of ground ability which is the key reason why most of the recent initiatives in the Middle East have failed. Special forces cannot win wars and this is where ISIS have you literally by the neck

US and allies and partners are not going to get involved in a land war on a land mass in Asia or anywhere else in the world.

In respect of Islands in the SCS, it is conceivable, yes -- on a land mass no. Y'know, land mass, as in a continent such as Asia, or an area of a continent such as the Middle East (Asia Minor).

Thoze dayze are gone, yet you (along with many others) keep fighting the last war, i.e., Air-Land battle. SCS will not be a war, but is is an Air-Sea military operation. It is not an Air-Land operation as were WW II, Korean Conflict, the Vietnam war, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia et al.

No one is occupying anything in the SCS except the CCP Dictators in Beijing who are 19th century revanchist and irredentist in their unlawful seizing of existing islands, the illegal construction of new and artificial islands that themselves and legally are not islands, and who arbitrarily and summarily pronounce 90% ownership of the South China Sea, AKA known in Vietnam as its East Sea, and, across the water, is known as the West Sea in and of the Philippines.

Again, US is not going to attack the CCP China. Your CCP brethren and cities are safe from external attack by the US. This is about the SCS and the likelihood of some one-off shooting incidents or a series of brief and limited trigger pulling by each side, not major combat. Anything can happen under the developing SCS circumstances imposed by CCP, but the US conducting a major military assault on the CCP mainland is out of the question. Why don't you get that??? You seem unable to understand or comprehend any of this SCS stuff. You make an existing dangerously escalating situation into a more risky business than it was to begin with.

I am not disputing your points Comrade P ...think you are missing mine ? Sunday perhaps ?

There are limited options with China of what the USA can do and hence China is saying " you can play this patrol thing all you like and even have a naval sail past across Ningbo or Baoshan ...it really does nothing to China's stand on SCS

When the antics are done , we will invite the sailors to the port for a bowl of hot steaming noodles and some R&R spent at the bars , get the needs out

SCS will turn out to be a grand charade and in the end ... a trade talk and concessions and this is the extent of it , USA involvement or not ...

The Philippines and Vietnamese are playing Uncle Sam for a fool and sugar daddy and as usual you guys are falling for it ....

[boomerangutang]

Western countries came to the realization that fish stocks were in dire trouble. They then went and did many things (legislation, patrols, protected zones, further studies) to try and get a semblance of health back. What have Asians done for their depleted zones? I ask that seriously, because I honestly don't know everything that's going on. I've heard that Korean fishermen are troubled by profusions of giant jellyfish (yuck). And while you're putting together an answer to my Q, please tell me what Asian countries are doing about the Great Pacific Trash Vortex which they created? Something tells me I won't get answers to my questions.

they did nothing until it was far too late, in fact the governments were denying there was a problem on the banks long after scientific studies warned them. don't ask me what rapacious asian nations are doing, I'm merely pointing out western nations have been just as rapacious.

Even in your valiant attempts to be contrary, you're making my point. Western countries did studies and, over time, took dynamic action to try to rectify over-fishing problems. There are still problems, but there are also some success stories.

What I'm saying is, A. I don't think Asian countries are even doing studies.

B. Furthermore, I don't think Asian countries are taking any tangible action to restore healthy seas.

Asian fishermen are going everywhere they can to get shark fins. Japanese are still fishing whales. Asian fishermen are in the Mediterranean taking out the last tuna.

Of course, non-Asians are over-fishing also. Asians, in general, don't seem to be studying or dealing effectively with the dire problems of over-fishing and sea pollution. I'm challenging you to prove me wrong, but all you can do is write: "Western countries do it too!"

Name one thing any Asian country has done to address the dire problem of the Pacific Trash Vortex. Are they even aware of it? Perhaps that's yet another of the thousands of topics which are censored in China.

dont be ridiculous. they took no action on the banks until the cod were GONE . and I said nothing about what asians do or dont do. all i'm sayin is its always the same with western countries. "Do as I say not as I do" lol. we trash our environment to make money and become top of the heap and then tell others they cant do what we did! the height of arrogance

Here we go, back and forth. Cod numbers were down to dangerously low levels, but then concerted efforts were/are being made to reverse that, to wit:

"MCS fisheries officer, Bernadette Clarke, said: "The efforts of fishers and managers have placed cod in the North Sea on the road to recovery. Programmes such as the conservation credits scheme – which rewards fishermen for adopting conservation measures with additional days at sea – together with more effective long-term management plans will hopefully see the fishery continue to recover in the coming years." source: The Guardian Newspaper

As for pollution levels worldwide: There are several different organizations which assess which cities ww are most polluted. They don't all agree (they use different criteria) but all are in Asia: Always in the top 20 are cities in India, China, Iran and Pakistan. I wouldn't want to be part of the crew which goes to take measurements.

Back to China's territory grab and environmental destruction near Phil's coast:

McManus, who has dived on the reefs the Chinese are destroying in the Spratlys, said the Chinese dredging and sand vacuuming on the reefs is devastating.

“The worst thing anyone can do to a coral reef is to bury it under tons of sand and gravel.” he says.

source breakingdefense.com

Just the sort of info that Chinese censors don't want released. They're trying as hard as possible to keep pesky scientific observers like McManus far from the commandeered islands, but sometimes the truth leaks out. I'd venture the Chinese have more full-time censors than the entire population of Singapore.

[ilostmypassword]

Comrade P

By all your details R2D2 and C3PO ....there is one major flaw ...and you have identified it yourself

With the USA military concentration of air / artillery in trying to plummet the other opponent to submission , it is the lack of ground ability which is the key reason why most of the recent initiatives in the Middle East have failed. Special forces cannot win wars and this is where ISIS have you literally by the neck

Fact #1 You cannot plummet China or Russia into submission.

Fact #2 You cannot engage civilian targets which is why your cutter crafts continue to patrol but cannot engage the civilian dredging

Fact #3 the CCP know it is likely the USA navy will fire first and hence they win the moral victory at the UN ; do remember this is still a communist country and sacrificing for the national cause deems you a national hero

Fact #4 the CCP have one of the largest land force in the world ; they have a crazy neighbor with Kim and if he throws his towel in with CCP in a moment of desperation , the US military units can't do much as long as they stay put waiting for your special forces to land

And no this time they won't be giving you HK when they lose ...Because they won't be losing

With an ally like Kim, who needs enemies? His armed forces are worthless. And I'm sure the Chinese are happy about that. Almost literally a loose cannon. The South Koreans would easily defeat North Korea. You can't sustain modern armed forces when your economy is a shambles.

Edited May 8, 2016 by ilostmypassword

[boomerangutang]

Comrade P

By all your details R2D2 and C3PO ....there is one major flaw ...and you have identified it yourself

With the USA military concentration of air / artillery in trying to plummet the other opponent to submission , it is the lack of ground ability which is the key reason why most of the recent initiatives in the Middle East have failed. Special forces cannot win wars and this is where ISIS have you literally by the neck

Fact #1 You cannot plummet China or Russia into submission.

Fact #2 You cannot engage civilian targets which is why your cutter crafts continue to patrol but cannot engage the civilian dredging

Fact #3 the CCP know it is likely the USA navy will fire first and hence they win the moral victory at the UN ; do remember this is still a communist country and sacrificing for the national cause deems you a national hero

Fact #4 the CCP have one of the largest land force in the world ; they have a crazy neighbor with Kim and if he throws his towel in with CCP in a moment of desperation , the US military units can't do much as long as they stay put waiting for your special forces to land

And no this time they won't be giving you HK when they lose ...Because they won't be losing

In recent history, there is not much precedence for what's happening now in the SCS. Probably the closest is Argentina renaming the Shetland Islands to the Malvines, and then sending its military and civilians to take it over. Britain, to whom the islands belong, quickly mobilized and confronted the Argentine air force and navy. Both sides suffered loses, but the battles were short-lived, and Britain prevailed. There was no threat to the Argentinian mainland. Argentina is several times larger than GB and many times closer to the disputed islands. If I recall correctly, there was no bombing of the islands and no civilians were injured.

People on this thread who are trying to blow the coming confrontation in the SCS up to World War proportions are doing so either out of ignorance or because they want to make it look so forbodding that China's adversaries don't do anything - and therefore allow China's territory grabs.

US Navy may fire the first shots, but the initial aggressor is/was China. China mobilized and went down there along the Phil coast to commandeer the islands. That is an aggressive act. If a 600 lb man sits on your face while you're lying down, that's an aggressive act. He may not be shouting or waving a weapon, but it's aggressive nevertheless.

Edited May 8, 2016 by boomerangutang

[AYJAYDEE]

Here we go, back and forth. Cod numbers were down to dangerously low levels, but then concerted efforts were/are being made to reverse that, to wit:

"MCS fisheries officer, Bernadette Clarke, said: "The efforts of fishers and managers have placed cod in the North Sea on the road to recovery. Programmes such as the conservation credits scheme – which rewards fishermen for adopting conservation measures with additional days at sea – together with more effective long-term management plans will hopefully see the fishery continue to recover in the coming years." source: The Guardian Newspaper

As for pollution levels worldwide: There are several different organizations which assess which cities ww are most polluted. They don't all agree (they use different criteria) but all are in Asia: Always in the top 20 are cities in India, China, Iran and Pakistan. I wouldn't want to be part of the crew which goes to take measurements.

Back to China's territory grab and environmental destruction near Phil's coast:

McManus, who has dived on the reefs the Chinese are destroying in the Spratlys, said the Chinese dredging and sand vacuuming on the reefs is devastating.

“The worst thing anyone can do to a coral reef is to bury it under tons of sand and gravel.” he says.

source breakingdefense.com

Just the sort of info that Chinese censors don't want released. They're trying as hard as possible to keep pesky scientific observers like McManus far from the commandeered islands, but sometimes the truth leaks out. I'd venture the Chinese have more full-time censors than the entire population of Singapore.

lol! tthe banks had to be completely shutdown in 1992 and they still cant be re-opened! thats a real bit of conservation to be proud of!!

and complaining about the asian nations pollution as they industrialize is hilarious when it was only a short time ago that american rivers caught on fire and the thames was a sewer

Edited May 8, 2016 by AYJAYDEE

[keemapoot]

Comrade P

By all your details R2D2 and C3PO ....there is one major flaw ...and you have identified it yourself

With the USA military concentration of air / artillery in trying to plummet the other opponent to submission , it is the lack of ground ability which is the key reason why most of the recent initiatives in the Middle East have failed. Special forces cannot win wars and this is where ISIS have you literally by the neck

Fact #1 You cannot plummet China or Russia into submission.

Fact #2 You cannot engage civilian targets which is why your cutter crafts continue to patrol but cannot engage the civilian dredging

Fact #3 the CCP know it is likely the USA navy will fire first and hence they win the moral victory at the UN ; do remember this is still a communist country and sacrificing for the national cause deems you a national hero

Fact #4 the CCP have one of the largest land force in the world ; they have a crazy neighbor with Kim and if he throws his towel in with CCP in a moment of desperation , the US military units can't do much as long as they stay put waiting for your special forces to land

And no this time they won't be giving you HK when they lose ...Because they won't be losing

With an ally like Kim, who needs enemies? His armed forces are worthless. And I'm sure the Chinese are happy about that. The South Koreans would easily defeat North Korea. You can't sustain modern armed forces when your economy is a shambles.

That's very true. To be honest, the country that needs to build another great wall is China - to keep N. Koreans out. Fat boy is putting on a big multi-day show this week, biggest show in 36 years, in essence his inauguration, with all the perfect show, but as reported on AJ, there were power outages everywhere else except where the event was.

You can get a Kim Jong Un hairstyle in Bangkok at Neversaycutz in Thonglor if any members want to copy this style maven.

[boomerangutang]

Here we go, back and forth. Cod numbers were down to dangerously low levels, but then concerted efforts were/are being made to reverse that, to wit:

"MCS fisheries officer, Bernadette Clarke, said: "The efforts of fishers and managers have placed cod in the North Sea on the road to recovery. Programmes such as the conservation credits scheme – which rewards fishermen for adopting conservation measures with additional days at sea – together with more effective long-term management plans will hopefully see the fishery continue to recover in the coming years." source: The Guardian Newspaper

As for pollution levels worldwide: There are several different organizations which assess which cities ww are most polluted. They don't all agree (they use different criteria) but all are in Asia: Always in the top 20 are cities in India, China, Iran and Pakistan. I wouldn't want to be part of the crew which goes to take measurements.

Back to China's territory grab and environmental destruction near Phil's coast:

McManus, who has dived on the reefs the Chinese are destroying in the Spratlys, said the Chinese dredging and sand vacuuming on the reefs is devastating.

“The worst thing anyone can do to a coral reef is to bury it under tons of sand and gravel.” he says.

source breakingdefense.com

Just the sort of info that Chinese censors don't want released. They're trying as hard as possible to keep pesky scientific observers like McManus far from the commandeered islands, but sometimes the truth leaks out. I'd venture the Chinese have more full-time censors than the entire population of Singapore.

lol! tthe banks had to be completely shutdown in 1992 and they still cant be re-opened! thats a real bit of conservation to be proud of!!

and complaining about the asian nations pollution as they industrialize is hilarious when it was only a short time ago that american rivers caught on fire and the thames was a sewer

What is it about the word 'recovery' that you don't understand?

[AYJAYDEE]

Here we go, back and forth. Cod numbers were down to dangerously low levels, but then concerted efforts were/are being made to reverse that, to wit:

"MCS fisheries officer, Bernadette Clarke, said: "The efforts of fishers and managers have placed cod in the North Sea on the road to recovery. Programmes such as the conservation credits scheme – which rewards fishermen for adopting conservation measures with additional days at sea – together with more effective long-term management plans will hopefully see the fishery continue to recover in the coming years." source: The Guardian Newspaper

As for pollution levels worldwide: There are several different organizations which assess which cities ww are most polluted. They don't all agree (they use different criteria) but all are in Asia: Always in the top 20 are cities in India, China, Iran and Pakistan. I wouldn't want to be part of the crew which goes to take measurements.

Back to China's territory grab and environmental destruction near Phil's coast:

McManus, who has dived on the reefs the Chinese are destroying in the Spratlys, said the Chinese dredging and sand vacuuming on the reefs is devastating.

“The worst thing anyone can do to a coral reef is to bury it under tons of sand and gravel.” he says.

source breakingdefense.com

Just the sort of info that Chinese censors don't want released. They're trying as hard as possible to keep pesky scientific observers like McManus far from the commandeered islands, but sometimes the truth leaks out. I'd venture the Chinese have more full-time censors than the entire population of Singapore.

lol! tthe banks had to be completely shutdown in 1992 and they still cant be re-opened! thats a real bit of conservation to be proud of!!

and complaining about the asian nations pollution as they industrialize is hilarious when it was only a short time ago that american rivers caught on fire and the thames was a sewer

What is it about the word 'recovery' that you don't understand?

30 to 40 years!! lol.

[boomerangutang]

China illegally fishing off coast of west Africa, Greenpeace study reveals

Number of Chinese fishing boats operating in Africa soared from 13 in 1985 to 462 in 2013, says environmental group, with ships ‘taking advantage of weak enforcement and supervision’

source

Desperate people resort to desperate actions. I can't blame them, really. With such a gargantuan population, Chinese have to voraciously get resources every way and every place possible - legally or not. Somebody's going to pipe up here and say, "yea, but the US does it also!" Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm thinking of writing a book with the tentative title: TRANSITION Times. It will be mostly about overpopulation, but will touch on many subjects, not least how our one species is destroying the surface of the one planet. The 'transition' is from a few hundred years ago, when there were forests and clean seas, to now, where resources are tarnished and lessening, .....to future scenarios where there is every increasing lack and desperation. It's not a new concept, but perhaps may shed some new light on solutions.

[AYJAYDEE]

China illegally fishing off coast of west Africa, Greenpeace study reveals

Number of Chinese fishing boats operating in Africa soared from 13 in 1985 to 462 in 2013, says environmental group, with ships ‘taking advantage of weak enforcement and supervision’

source

Desperate people resort to desperate actions. I can't blame them, really. With such a gargantuan population, Chinese have to voraciously get resources every way and every place possible - legally or not. Somebody's going to pipe up here and say, "yea, but the US does it also!" Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm thinking of writing a book with the tentative title: TRANSITION Times. It will be mostly about overpopulation, but will touch on many subjects, not least how our one species is destroying the surface of the one planet. The 'transition' is from a few hundred years ago, when there were forests and clean seas, to now, where resources are tarnished and lessening, .....to future scenarios where there is every increasing lack and desperation. It's not a new concept, but perhaps may shed some new light on solutions.

they fish illegally too? wow! what a revelation.