US military units to stay for South China Sea patrols

[AYJAYDEE]

Wow, interesting maps above. The international community should appoint me to designate who gets what. I would do it scientifically and fairly. China would get Hainan and half of the Paracels, that's it. Taiwan seems to be stretching its reach to ridiculous lengths. What about Indonesia - does it get some islands? I see the islands between the two parts of Malaysia don't seem to be claimed by anyone in the 6 maps above, so maybe they're agreed upon as Indonesian. Also, the islands north of Phil's Luzon aren't contested as being Phil's, though they're a lot closer to Taiwan and China than the Spratly Islands and Scarborough Shoals.

Boomer, you've decided to give Beijing Hainan and half of the Paracels ?

Well, Beijing has already got Hainan.

And yes, Taiwan. You reckon they're stretching their reach to ridiculous lengths ? In Taiwan's case, they get NO islands.

Taiwan left main-land China (they did actually take with them the name, Republic of China, important that, bit like a Chinese man who left the business premises, but he took with him the business sign-board) back in the late 1940s and set up "Taiwan". When they left China, they lost or forfeited all rights under the "China" name.

Re; Hainan. Yes, I know it's Chinese but I put it in the mix in order to shake up peoples' perspectives a bit. Spratly Islands are Philippine and Hainan is Chinese. But now China wants to reconfigure the chess board. China bigger and has a large military, so it assumes it can just do as it pleases when dealing with smaller countries. If Phil's had a stronger military than China, would it lay claim to Hainan? ....give it a Fil-sounding name (Malacanana Island?), find some old parchment showing Fil' boats docked there in the past, and proceed to plant bananas, import jeepneys, and occupy it.

As for Taiwan, that's a big topic. I don't think we need to drag up all its history and bandy it around here. In relation to the disputed islands, Taiwan should butt out. It's not China even if it uses the name. It's Taiwan and it would be a sovereign country if mainlanders weren't so covetous, ....and weren't so busy paying off little countries ww to shun Taiwan. I generally put up with the UN, but their refusing to recognize Taiwan for the country it is, is despicable. The Olympics are a bit better in recognizing it.

are you suggesting the un could give taiwan un membership?

[boomerangutang]

are you suggesting the un could give taiwan un membership?

Change could to should, and my answer is 'yes.'

[AYJAYDEE]

are you suggesting the un could give taiwan un membership?

Change could to should, and my answer is 'yes.'

and how would they get that past the security council?

[Publicus]

Good to see the Green Team is starting to catch up.

As this poster has pointed out at this thread (and at other threads), CCP Dictators were never intended to be included in the founding of the TPP. CCP was always on the docket to be considered in a second round of membership, or possibly even a third round of entrants.

No way CCP was going to be a founding member of TPP when the by-laws were initiated, the rules, regs, terms of definition and the founding charter was drafted, revised, finalised.

CCP can enter TPP later -- and only when it agrees to abide by the extant rules of the ongoing and thriving TPP.

Welcome aboard.

Don't make the mistake of thinking China has not already found out a way in to the TPP, even if not officially.

And thanks for the welcome aboard, but don't make the mistake of thinking I like Hilary. But as you know, we in the green team are merely amoral creatures chasing the almighty buck, and she is good for business. I once had a conversation with a hooker in Moscow who told me she would sleep with an alligator for money.

As you well know, Xi Jinping's genius competitor to the TPP is the Asia Infrastructure and Investment Bank, or AIIB. It was supposed to fund three silk road projects to Europe to include a fourth via sea but nobody's buying it to include Thailand.

Everybody joined it except USA and Japan cause CCP promised to pay for it all. Now AIIB is standing on a corner of each member country's capital with a tin cup cause Beijing hasn't any cash for AIIB. Sort of like the other bank, a has been that never wuz, the Brics Development Bank. Neither Brics nor their development bank exist any longer. India is the only former Bric that got out alive with gdp pushing 8% last year and counting.

Hence the stillborn AIIB. Xi needs to work his way in to the TPP and there's no question of it. It is yet another instance of the clever CCP because once again Xi has us right where we want him.

[craigt3365]

Lol! America accepts UNCLOS definitions for the SCS but refuses to recognize them for he northwest passage! how typical!!

Not sure you've got it right concerning the Northwest Passage. A bit more complex than just blaming the US for the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Passage#International_waters_dispute

The Canadian government claims that some of the waters of the Northwest Passage, particularly those in the Canadian Arctic Archipelago, are Internal waters of Canada, giving Canada the right to bar transit through these waters.[14] Most maritime nations, including the United States and those of the European Union, classify these waters as an international strait, where foreign vessels have the right of "transit passage". In such a regime, Canada would have the right to enact fishing and environmental regulation, and fiscal and smuggling laws, as well as laws intended for the safety of shipping, but not the right to close the passage.[13][73] If the passage’s deep waters become completely ice-free in summer months, they would be particularly enticing for massive supertankers that are too big to pass through the Panama Canal and must otherwise navigate around the tip of South America.[74]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_claims_in_the_Arctic

The legal status of the Northwest Passage is disputed: Canada considers it to be part of its internal waters according to the UNCLOS.^[53] The United States and most maritime nations^[54] consider them to be an international strait,^[55] which means that foreign vessels have right of "transit passage".^[56] In such a regime, Canada would have the right to enact fishing and environmental regulation, and fiscal and smuggling laws, as well as laws intended for the safety of shipping, but not the right to close the passage.^[57] In addition, the environmental regulations allowed under the UNCLOS are not as robust as those allowed if the Northwest Passage is part of Canada's internal waters.^[58]

http://www.admiraltylawguide.com/conven/unclospart4.html

[AYJAYDEE]

Lol! America accepts UNCLOS definitions for the SCS but refuses to recognize them for he northwest passage! how typical!!

Not sure you've got it right concerning the Northwest Passage. A bit more complex than just blaming the US for the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Passage#International_waters_dispute

The Canadian government claims that some of the waters of the Northwest Passage, particularly those in the Canadian Arctic Archipelago, are Internal waters of Canada, giving Canada the right to bar transit through these waters.[14] Most maritime nations, including the United States and those of the European Union, classify these waters as an international strait, where foreign vessels have the right of "transit passage". In such a regime, Canada would have the right to enact fishing and environmental regulation, and fiscal and smuggling laws, as well as laws intended for the safety of shipping, but not the right to close the passage.[13][73] If the passage’s deep waters become completely ice-free in summer months, they would be particularly enticing for massive supertankers that are too big to pass through the Panama Canal and must otherwise navigate around the tip of South America.[74]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_claims_in_the_Arctic

The legal status of the Northwest Passage is disputed: Canada considers it to be part of its internal waters according to the UNCLOS.^[53] The United States and most maritime nations^[54] consider them to be an international strait,^[55] which means that foreign vessels have right of "transit passage".^[56] In such a regime, Canada would have the right to enact fishing and environmental regulation, and fiscal and smuggling laws, as well as laws intended for the safety of shipping, but not the right to close the passage.^[57] In addition, the environmental regulations allowed under the UNCLOS are not as robust as those allowed if the Northwest Passage is part of Canada's internal waters.^[58]

http://www.admiraltylawguide.com/conven/unclospart4.html

by the UNCLOS definition, Canada is right. America chooses to define the area in question differently. But of course agrees with UNCLOS when it suits them. typical!

[craigt3365]

by the UNCLOS definition, Canada is right. America chooses to define the area in question differently. But of course agrees with UNCLOS when it suits them. typical!

You did read the part where most maritime nations also don't agree with the definition? Including most of Europe. Or is it easier to just bash the US?

[AYJAYDEE]

by the UNCLOS definition, Canada is right. America chooses to define the area in question differently. But of course agrees with UNCLOS when it suits them. typical!

You did read the part where most maritime nations also don't agree with the definition? Including most of Europe. Or is it easier to just bash the US?

other maritime nations?? duh!!! because its the US that is sending ships thru the passage!

[Publicus]

Good to see the Green Team is starting to catch up.

As this poster has pointed out at this thread (and at other threads), CCP Dictators were never intended to be included in the founding of the TPP. CCP was always on the docket to be considered in a second round of membership, or possibly even a third round of entrants.

No way CCP was going to be a founding member of TPP when the by-laws were initiated, the rules, regs, terms of definition and the founding charter was drafted, revised, finalised.

CCP can enter TPP later -- and only when it agrees to abide by the extant rules of the ongoing and thriving TPP.

Welcome aboard.

Don't make the mistake of thinking China has not already found out a way in to the TPP, even if not officially.

And thanks for the welcome aboard, but don't make the mistake of thinking I like Hilary. But as you know, we in the green team are merely amoral creatures chasing the almighty buck, and she is good for business. I once had a conversation with a hooker in Moscow who told me she would sleep with an alligator for money.

And thanks for the welcome aboard, but don't make the mistake of thinking I like Hilary.

No problem so don't fret over the a priori inconceivable, the unimaginable, the galactically impossible.

I've read your posts y'know.

My welcome aboard wuz anyway about recognising Xi Jinping has had to begin groveling to get his nose under the tent of the TPP.

The welcome was to youse guyz of the ever harmonious CCP and its Green Team of Foreign Devils.

The very green reasons for your support of HRC/TPP are spectacularly obvious not to mention instantly transparent. So there's nothing to remark about in this respect.

Regardless, if you can use any influence you might have to get the CCP Boyz to negotiate on the SCS, I'll personally nominate you for the Nobel Peace Prize combined with the Nobel in Economics and Finance. Probably for fiction too btw.

(Fiction would likely be your best bet among the three.)

[boomerangutang]

are you suggesting the un could give taiwan un membership?

Change could to should, and my answer is 'yes.'

and how would they get that past the security council?

A better way to put it: "How would you get that past China?"

China is the only country in the world which is stymieing Taiwan's acceptance in the world community. China is also doing similar with Tibet, tho a different scenario.

Because of its intense agenda (to keep Tibet and Taiwan from being independent), China uses all of its size and might to cajole, influence, bully other countries to go along, many of them reluctantly. If a vote were held in the General Assembly as to whether Tibet and Taiwan should be granted country status, the vote would be 98% in favor. Besides China, the only countries voting against would be tiny places like The Gambia which had been sufficiently paid off by Chinese officials.

Similar with SCS islands. That's why China will do all it can to disallow UN General Assembly votes on any of those issues.

[craigt3365]

by the UNCLOS definition, Canada is right. America chooses to define the area in question differently. But of course agrees with UNCLOS when it suits them. typical!

You did read the part where most maritime nations also don't agree with the definition? Including most of Europe. Or is it easier to just bash the US?

other maritime nations?? duh!!! because its the US that is sending ships thru the passage!

Research is a good thing before posting. And yes, Europe is part of this also. As is China:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/20/china-northwest-passage-trade-route-shipping-guide

[craigt3365]

are you suggesting the un could give taiwan un membership?

Change could to should, and my answer is 'yes.'

and how would they get that past the security council?

A better way to put it: "How would you get that past China?"

China is the only country in the world which is stymieing Taiwan's acceptance in the world community. China is also doing similar with Tibet, tho a different scenario.

Because of its intense agenda (to keep Tibet and Taiwan from being independent), China uses all of its size and might to cajole, influence, bully other countries to go along, many of them reluctantly. If a vote were held in the General Assembly as to whether Tibet and Taiwan should be granted country status, the vote would be 98% in favor. Besides China, the only countries voting against would be tiny places like The Gambia which had been sufficiently paid off by Chinese officials.

Similar with SCS islands. That's why China will do all it can to disallow UN General Assembly votes on any of those issues.

I thought I read the US is also not backing Taiwan's entry to the UN?????

China invaded Tibet and took it over. And have ruined an absolutely beautiful country.

[lannarebirth]

by the UNCLOS definition, Canada is right. America chooses to define the area in question differently. But of course agrees with UNCLOS when it suits them. typical!

You did read the part where most maritime nations also don't agree with the definition? Including most of Europe. Or is it easier to just bash the US?

other maritime nations?? duh!!! because its the US that is sending ships thru the passage!

I expect Canada is trying to reserve the right to put pilots aboard vessels transiting the passage. The nations that assert international right of passage are correct. It's a situation not unlike Unimak Pass in the Aleutian chain. Unimak Pass is one of the more heavily traversed passes in the world and the US places no restrictions on ships transiting it.

[AYJAYDEE]

are you suggesting the un could give taiwan un membership?

Change could to should, and my answer is 'yes.'

and how would they get that past the security council?

A better way to put it: "How would you get that past China?"

China is the only country in the world which is stymieing Taiwan's acceptance in the world community. China is also doing similar with Tibet, tho a different scenario.

Because of its intense agenda (to keep Tibet and Taiwan from being independent), China uses all of its size and might to cajole, influence, bully other countries to go along, many of them reluctantly. If a vote were held in the General Assembly as to whether Tibet and Taiwan should be granted country status, the vote would be 98% in favor. Besides China, the only countries voting against would be tiny places like The Gambia which had been sufficiently paid off by Chinese officials.

Similar with SCS islands. That's why China will do all it can to disallow UN General Assembly votes on any of those issues.

all it has to do is use her security council veto

[Publicus]

Taiwan can sometimes be the mouse that roared.

Taipei several years ago got the Pacific island nation of Kiribati to establish diplomatic relations, no doubt with the tacit assistance of the United States.

The direct consequence to the CCP Dictators in Beijing wuz that the Boyz knew immediately they had to dismantle and remove from Kiribati a brand new satellite tracking station on the nation's Tarawa Atoll.

A small coup followed by a fast exit by the dragon. Smiles in Washington.

[tonbridgebrit]

take it slow

Slow is the word over there.

Takes 'em a couple of centuries to recognise what's going on around 'em.

Then a couple of centuries to figure out what to do.

And a couple of centuries more to find out they were wrong about that too.

Not a good history, meaning time has never been on the side of China.

I have never understood the notion that China have time on their side. While China is doing nothing to solve current problems, the west just grows bigger, smarter, wiser and better, while China continue to dig themselves deeper into an abyss of pollution, corruption, fake food products and total lack of trust.

Time is China's worst enemy. Enjoy your tea, I am going for coffee now.

I mostly agree with your post, but in relation to its SCS territory grabs, time is on China's side. Each week that rolls by, is another week that China can dredge, pour concrete, ship in weapons and troops, and so on. More time = more likely other countries will throw up their hands and say, "well, they've been occupying there a long time and show no sign of vacating, so I guess we have to let things be as the are."

This thing about how time is on China's side regarding the South China Sea dispute.

Notice how Publicus is attacking not just Beijing (the CCP Beijing regime was founded in 1949) , but also China and Chinese people as well. Going on and on about the centuries prior to 1949.

Yes, Chinese people in places like Taiwan and Hong Kong do actually know that Washington uses the issues of Taiwan and Hong Kong as an excuse to attack China. Washington attacks China not just because of the CCP Beijing regime, but because, China is China, and China has Chinese people. People in Taiwan and Hong Kong do actually know that most of them have parents or grand-parents who were born in main-land China.

Okay, Boomer, I do actually agree with your comment about how every week, more concrete is being poured, nothing is being done about the construction of the islands, no missiles being fired or action being done. So yes, time goes by, the islands are being built, time is on China's side in that sense.

And expatoilworker. I think we should accept that as time goes by, China's economy is growing (rapidly), but the USA's economy is growing far slower. The EU and Japan are stagnating. An example, Thailand (especially Pattaya) is being flooded by the Chinese tourists, and the flood is certainly getting bigger. The number of Chinese tourists will probably double in the next six or seven years. When will China's economy be as big as America's ? When will China's GDP equal America's ? Ten years ? Twenty years ? Twenty five years ?

It will happen, just needs time.

[tonbridgebrit]

Taiwan can sometimes be the mouse that roared.

Taipei several years ago got the Pacific island nation of Kiribati to establish diplomatic relations, no doubt with the tacit assistance of the United States.

The direct consequence to the CCP Dictators in Beijing wuz that the Boyz knew immediately they had to dismantle and remove from Kiribati a brand new satellite tracking station on the nation's Tarawa Atoll.

A small coup followed by a fast exit by the dragon. Smiles in Washington.

Maybe Taiwan should try and target one of the real countries, like America, and try and establish diplomatic relations with them.

Try and create a situation where there is actually going to be an Embassy of the Republic of China (Taiwan) in America, and not an Embassy of the Peoples' Republic of China.

Smiles in Washington ? Maybe Washington can show real courage by actually having an Embassy of the Republic of China rather than an Embassy of the Peoples' Republic of China.

Go on Washington, Kiribati did it, you smirked, why don't you do it as well ?

[keemapoot]

There are efforts underway to enlist Cambodia to join the TPP, which would complicate China's support it expects from Cambodia from their position in the SCS. This again, is an example of diplomatic efforts that are underway to not only increase trade, but bring China to the bargaining table. Again, smart country growth diplomacy, not military diplomacy.

At the Amcham Cambodia's annual meeting yesterday, US Ambassador to Cambodia Heidt made the argument:

Addressing AmCham Cambodia’s annual meeting, Heidt said the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement – which creates a 12-member trade bloc that accounts for 40 per cent of the world’s economy – will make Vietnam a top US trading partner, potentially at the expense of Cambodia, which is not part of the landmark agreement.

He further added that while there is no formal framework for countries to enter the TPP, Heidt said American and Cambodian economists were working together on a joint study to determine the pros and cons of Cambodia joining the multilateral trade agreement.

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/business/cambodia-urged-join-tpp

Edited May 10, 2016 by keemapoot

[Publicus]

There are efforts underway to enlist Cambodia to join the TPP, which would complicate China's support it expects from Cambodia from their position in the SCS. This again, is an example of diplomatic efforts that are underway to not only increase trade, but bring China to the bargaining table. Again, smart country growth diplomacy, not military diplomacy.

At the Amcham Cambodia's annual meeting yesterday, US Ambassador to Cambodia Heidt made the argument:

Addressing AmCham Cambodia’s annual meeting, Heidt said the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement – which creates a 12-member trade bloc that accounts for 40 per cent of the world’s economy – will make Vietnam a top US trading partner, potentially at the expense of Cambodia, which is not part of the landmark agreement.

He further added that while there is no formal framework for countries to enter the TPP, Heidt said American and Cambodian economists were working together on a joint study to determine the pros and cons of Cambodia joining the multilateral trade agreement.

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/business/cambodia-urged-join-tpp

It would be good if the Green Team could clear itself of stereotypes and of preconceived prejudices to recognise that this poster supports TPP and has always been enthusiastic about TPP. It's a great idea for the US and everyone involved and it is intended to draw CCP in to a market and democracy dominated and run trade regime. I'd say it is long past time to self-correct those Green Team baked in deficiencies and deficits.

Economic integration is the much preferred and number one approach to incorporate CCP into the extant global system and structures, organisations.

However, the belief is wrongheaded of the ideological conservatives in US that democracy necessarily follows capitalism in an authoritarian country, which is what CCP is. CCP are absolute in their 100% percent detestation and contempt of parliamentary systems which means they'll never ever have it under any circumstances or conditions. Green Teams don't much care either as long as things stay green.

Chinese entrepreneurs like the green too so they cheerfully rub elbows with foreign devils who grow the green. Not so much so for the CCP dynastic ideologues however. The industrial group I consult for in Guangdong have owners who know English and they treat me warmly and with a great hospitality when I'm there. CCP censors are mean and cruel which comes naturally with their psychopathy.

Some prominent CCPs such as Vice-Premier Wang Jiang are strongly pro-US, or at least very open to positive interaction and cooperation with the USA. Wang is one of the very very few CCPs in Xi Jinping's stable who can get away with talking with American officials. The whole gang of Xi's CCP don't talk with their peers at summits and other meetings, such as APEC, Asean etc. They're afraid they'll catch something unChinese if they interact with Americans or Europeans. A sorry bunch this Xi has under him and that are the same as him.

CCP in the East Sea however, from 2009 to 2013, and now in the SCS are making it impossible to believe CCP even think of a mutuality and a peaceful rise of the CCP. Their economy is tanking and their Middle Kingdom designs for the region and the world are a compulsion the Chinese cannot resist, nor do they care to resist. Even Barack Obama has become weary of trying to reason with 'em. CCP have gone now to the point that SecDef Ashton Carter the hawk got appointed the new sheriff and the Senate foreign affairs committee with the Armed Services committee have introduced proposed legislation to put money, supplies and more exercises/operations into the SCS horror show created by the obsessive compulsive CCP Dictators.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Publicus

[Publicus]

The Institute for Vietnamese Culture and Education in New York City collaborated with Yale University to examine the vacuous nature of the CCP's arbitrary claims and absolutism in the SCS.

Experts also participating in the conference were from Canada, France, UK, Germany, Australia.

CCP have no friends, no allies except the usual suspects such as Russia and Gambia, no support, as the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague prepares to issue its findings.

Evidence at US workshop show China’s claims in East Sea wrong

Scholars at a recent workshop at Yale University, the US state of Connecticut, have adduced evidence to prove that China’s sovereignty claims in the East Sea (internationally known as South China Sea) are not true.

It focused on the history of the East Sea disputes, the geopolitical situation of the East Sea, and legal issues regarding the disputes.

They cited many old documents and maps, including those made by China, regional countries and westerners who travelled across the waters, which testify to the reverse of what China claims in the East Sea.

They said China has developed military forces able to control the first chain of islands in the East Sea. Its artificial islands can serve as logistics bases for activities of its fishermen and law enforcement bodies.

The specialists warned that China is enhancing the use of commercial fishing boats, and ships of the law enforcement force with a view to changing the status quo in the East Sea.

It is also using maritime militia who can act as an unofficial naval force when armed conflicts arise, the scholars said.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/marine-sovereignty/156135/evidence-at-us-workshop-show-china-s-claims-in-east-sea-wrong.html

CCP are as dogged and determined in their purposes and goals as are the fringe rightwingers in the USA in their own pursuits.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Publicus

[ExpatOilWorker]

take it slow

Slow is the word over there.

Takes 'em a couple of centuries to recognise what's going on around 'em.

Then a couple of centuries to figure out what to do.

And a couple of centuries more to find out they were wrong about that too.

Not a good history, meaning time has never been on the side of China.

I have never understood the notion that China have time on their side. While China is doing nothing to solve current problems, the west just grows bigger, smarter, wiser and better, while China continue to dig themselves deeper into an abyss of pollution, corruption, fake food products and total lack of trust.

Time is China's worst enemy. Enjoy your tea, I am going for coffee now.

I mostly agree with your post, but in relation to its SCS territory grabs, time is on China's side. Each week that rolls by, is another week that China can dredge, pour concrete, ship in weapons and troops, and so on. More time = more likely other countries will throw up their hands and say, "well, they've been occupying there a long time and show no sign of vacating, so I guess we have to let things be as the are."

This thing about how time is on China's side regarding the South China Sea dispute.

Notice how Publicus is attacking not just Beijing (the CCP Beijing regime was founded in 1949) , but also China and Chinese people as well. Going on and on about the centuries prior to 1949.

Yes, Chinese people in places like Taiwan and Hong Kong do actually know that Washington uses the issues of Taiwan and Hong Kong as an excuse to attack China. Washington attacks China not just because of the CCP Beijing regime, but because, China is China, and China has Chinese people. People in Taiwan and Hong Kong do actually know that most of them have parents or grand-parents who were born in main-land China.

Okay, Boomer, I do actually agree with your comment about how every week, more concrete is being poured, nothing is being done about the construction of the islands, no missiles being fired or action being done. So yes, time goes by, the islands are being built, time is on China's side in that sense.

And expatoilworker. I think we should accept that as time goes by, China's economy is growing (rapidly), but the USA's economy is growing far slower. The EU and Japan are stagnating. An example, Thailand (especially Pattaya) is being flooded by the Chinese tourists, and the flood is certainly getting bigger. The number of Chinese tourists will probably double in the next six or seven years. When will China's economy be as big as America's ? When will China's GDP equal America's ? Ten years ? Twenty years ? Twenty five years ?

It will happen, just needs time.

China have had 30 years of uninterrupted positive growth, which admittedly is impressive, but it is a huge mistake to assume they will continue to grow. Only bankers believe in compounding interest, the rest of us must endure a bumpy ride in the real world.

As Chinese society is growing more complex, they will face ALL the complications that maturing economies are facing. Just take the chaos England went through in the '70-'80, scale it up and add a Chine twist to it. Japan in the late '80 is another example.

None of us know if it will lead to a conflict in the SCS, but not even China will grow into the sky.

(When will China's economy be as big as America's?)

It will never happen, no matter how much time you have.

[boomerangutang]

When will China's GDP equal America's ? Ten years ? Twenty years ? Twenty five years ?

It will happen, just needs time.

For that to happen, I think China needs to do some innovation. Or maybe it can keep building its economy on other peoples' ideas. Many of its brightest young people leave China for places like the US, first chance they get. Producing cheap plastic stuff for the world is ok (I guess), but then taking much of that revenue to build gargantuan concrete cities in China with occupancy rates in the single digits. ......a lot of imbalance going on. But again, no place is perfect.

Maybe Taiwan should try and target one of the real countries, like America, and try and establish diplomatic relations with them.

Try and create a situation where there is actually going to be an Embassy of the Republic of China (Taiwan) in America, and not an Embassy of the Peoples' Republic of China.

Smiles in Washington ? Maybe Washington can show real courage by actually having an Embassy of the Republic of China rather than an Embassy of the Peoples' Republic of China.

Go on Washington, Kiribati did it, you smirked, why don't you do it as well ?

Your post started out ok, though you ended it tongue-in-cheek, as if it's a joke. It's not outlandish for the US to recognize Taiwan. The US has hosted the Dalai Lama several times, each time Chinese officials went ballistic. The US has hosted Taiwanese leaders with the respect afforded heads of state. It's not a far cry to picture the US recognizing Taiwan. Go ahead and let the Beijing politburo soil their pants in response. What's China going to do to retaliate, quit shipping plastic stuff to the US? Beat up American tourists at Tianeman Square? Cyber attack the US, like N.Korea did when offended by a movie?

[tonbridgebrit]

When will China's GDP equal America's ? Ten years ? Twenty years ? Twenty five years ?

It will happen, just needs time.

For that to happen, I think China needs to do some innovation. Or maybe it can keep building its economy on other peoples' ideas. Many of its brightest young people leave China for places like the US, first chance they get. Producing cheap plastic stuff for the world is ok (I guess), but then taking much of that revenue to build gargantuan concrete cities in China with occupancy rates in the single digits. ......a lot of imbalance going on. But again, no place is perfect.

Maybe Taiwan should try and target one of the real countries, like America, and try and establish diplomatic relations with them.

Try and create a situation where there is actually going to be an Embassy of the Republic of China (Taiwan) in America, and not an Embassy of the Peoples' Republic of China.

Smiles in Washington ? Maybe Washington can show real courage by actually having an Embassy of the Republic of China rather than an Embassy of the Peoples' Republic of China.

Go on Washington, Kiribati did it, you smirked, why don't you do it as well ?

Your post started out ok, though you ended it tongue-in-cheek, as if it's a joke. It's not outlandish for the US to recognize Taiwan. The US has hosted the Dalai Lama several times, each time Chinese officials went ballistic. The US has hosted Taiwanese leaders with the respect afforded heads of state. It's not a far cry to picture the US recognizing Taiwan. Go ahead and let the Beijing politburo soil their pants in response. What's China going to do to retaliate, quit shipping plastic stuff to the US? Beat up American tourists at Tianeman Square? Cyber attack the US, like N.Korea did when offended by a movie?

Regarding time is on China's side, and how the size of China's economy will equal America's in the future. China's population is triple or quadruple America's. China's GDP per person will never equal America's, I think I'ill go along wih that.

But China's GDP per person only has to be a quarter or one-third of America's, and that's it, China's economy will be roughly the same size as the USA. Them people in the USA, man for man, are they really that much superior compared to those people in China ?

As for 'recognizing' Taiwan, well. Taiwan is not declaring it's independence (from China), they are China. And the USA and the world accepts that there's ONE China, not two. The 'One China Policy'.

[LawrenceChee]

When will China's GDP equal America's ? Ten years ? Twenty years ? Twenty five years ?

It will happen, just needs time.

For that to happen, I think China needs to do some innovation. Or maybe it can keep building its economy on other peoples' ideas. Many of its brightest young people leave China for places like the US, first chance they get. Producing cheap plastic stuff for the world is ok (I guess), but then taking much of that revenue to build gargantuan concrete cities in China with occupancy rates in the single digits. ......a lot of imbalance going on. But again, no place is perfect.

Maybe Taiwan should try and target one of the real countries, like America, and try and establish diplomatic relations with them.

Try and create a situation where there is actually going to be an Embassy of the Republic of China (Taiwan) in America, and not an Embassy of the Peoples' Republic of China.

Smiles in Washington ? Maybe Washington can show real courage by actually having an Embassy of the Republic of China rather than an Embassy of the Peoples' Republic of China.

Go on Washington, Kiribati did it, you smirked, why don't you do it as well ?

Your post started out ok, though you ended it tongue-in-cheek, as if it's a joke. It's not outlandish for the US to recognize Taiwan. The US has hosted the Dalai Lama several times, each time Chinese officials went ballistic. The US has hosted Taiwanese leaders with the respect afforded heads of state. It's not a far cry to picture the US recognizing Taiwan. Go ahead and let the Beijing politburo soil their pants in response. What's China going to do to retaliate, quit shipping plastic stuff to the US? Beat up American tourists at Tianeman Square? Cyber attack the US, like N.Korea did when offended by a movie?

Heya guys ...I'm back been busy in Shanghai cozying up to the green team ...

Jest aside ...there is a lot to China they have to offer and I know this topic innovation keeps popping up and people assume China is only good at copying and making plastic junk

I am against plastic junk factories and believe they should be shut down ...hopefully those was what Comrade P observed in his earlier post talking about empty factory floors ...these cheap junk polluting factories should be shut down and people should pay for a quality replacement instead of the 30baht pink pail you keep buying at BigC ...admit it we all have one of those in our homes

As for Innovation, boomer - go check out Tu You You ...she basically contributed to science and was quiet and modest about it but in years to come ,many will be saved by her innovations in extracting the Chinese herb to curb the spread of malaria ...in fact the history of this is interesting on how her unit was formed by Zhou En Lai and she presented the findings anonymously initially . The Vietnamese thanked her for it

Check out Jacks App WeChat ...it's amazing and innovative for a guy that was rejected by KFC for a part time job and a nerd that went to yahoo for a stint and came back with a winner on his own rights

WeChat can pay for your gas bills , water and electricity , hail a cab ( no need for uber) , search for people nearby ( no need tinder) , chat and also use it as a pay wallet ( no need visa wave) ...go Dutch ( put in your bill amount and everyone in the party can pay you direct without exchanging cash ) , top up your mobile phone credit ..and other features

Facebook is busy incorporating this to the interface and this guy already has it figured out ...

Edited May 10, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[Scott]

This topic is seriously off-topic and the next poster who starts trolling will get a suspension.

You have been warned.

The topic is about the US military units in the SCS. Stay on topic.

[arjunadawn]

Whatever the calculated goal of the Obama 'pivot to Asia' one thing is certain, the political side of this equation becomes a 'bridge to far' for the military side of the formula. Under Obama, the US military is in a dire state. As Iran said, [paraphrase] 'the US cannot make safe any place on earth.' This is not untrue because a bozo said it; it seems the Pentagon itself concedes this point.

Military estimates suggest the US is at its lowest ebb since prior to WWII. At a time when the political rhetoric of the US seems to assert its business as usual, and allies are scared, and enemies emboldened, it is a cause for concern that the US seems to be 'politically' unaware of how vulnerable this makes us/US.

(The US could hardly support an Asian logistics train today).

[Publicus]

The Lowy Institute of Sydney which is a national security center in Australia affiliated with the Hudson Institute of New York released moments ago the information the USN today conducted a third SCS Freedom of Navigation operation within 12 miles of Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratly Islands.

The Aegis guided missile destroyer USS William P. Lawrence DDG 110 sailed without prior notice past a large militarised island that was visited just recently by the PLA's second highest general and which just last week was the site of a big entertainment show run by the PLA.

US Navy carries out third FONOP in South China Sea

The US Navy has carried out another freedom of navigation operation in the South China Sea. According to defence sources, it was conducted, on the morning of 10 May, by the USS William P. Lawrence, a guided missile destroyer within 12 nautical miles of Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratly Islands.

Arleigh Burke class Aegis guided missile destroyer William P. Lawrence DDG 110

at left is shown underway to the Spratly Islands of the South China Sea shortly after

dawn Tuesday May 10 in the third Freedom of Navigation Operation it conducted

at Fiery Cross Reef illegally occupied by China which seized the Spratlys from the

Philippines in 2012. The Lawrence is separating from its accompanying USS

Stockdale DDG 106 of the 7th Fleet Destroyer Squadron 26. (USN photo)

Fiery Cross is one of the largest complexes built by China in the Spratlys and can be considered a lynchpin facility, with a 3000 metre runway that is now operational and capable of handling any military aircraft in China’s inventory. Despite President Xi Jinping’s apparent pledge in Washington not to militarise the Spratlys, Fiery Cross has already been visited in recent weeks by China’s top-ranking general and last week hosted a visiting naval contingent led by a large Type 071 amphibious ship, and even a troupe of singers.

As with the previous South China Sea FONOPs the US has again made a point of challenging excessive maritime claims by multiple countries, in this case China, Taiwan, and Vietnam, based on these states’ requirements for prior permission or notification of transits through the territorial sea, a position that the US holds as contrary to international law.

http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2016/05/10/US-Navy-carries-out-third-FONOP-in-South-China-Sea.aspx

The FON operation today affected SCS overlapping claims by China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Philippines.

All parties involved and interested nations from Asia to Europe are awaiting the verdict expected in weeks of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague on the case against CCP brought by the Philippines against CCP territorial aggressions and belligerence in the Spratlys, the Paracels and the expected CCP invasion of the Scarborough Shoal by CCP militia.

USA recognises Scarborough Shoal as within the Phils EEZ dating back to when the US left the Philippines after the Phils became a sovereign independent nation.

[Publicus]

Whatever the calculated goal of the Obama 'pivot to Asia' one thing is certain, the political side of this equation becomes a 'bridge to far' for the military side of the formula. Under Obama, the US military is in a dire state. As Iran said, [paraphrase] 'the US cannot make safe any place on earth.' This is not untrue because a bozo said it; it seems the Pentagon itself concedes this point.

Military estimates suggest the US is at its lowest ebb since prior to WWII. At a time when the political rhetoric of the US seems to assert its business as usual, and allies are scared, and enemies emboldened, it is a cause for concern that the US seems to be 'politically' unaware of how vulnerable this makes us/US.

(The US could hardly support an Asian logistics train today).

If the United States were isolated in the Western Pacific or new to it that might be true.

Given that neither is the case, the statement in the post is false. It may even be malicious toward President Obama himself, personally.

The US has supplies and support facilities in Singapore, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, the Philippines (Taiwan if necessary), South Korea, Japan, Guam and has just entered a supply basing "partnership agreement" with India.

Malaysia has agreed to be a new supply facility and Cambodia has agreed to provide facilities for humanitarian supplies. Vietnam has just opened Cam Ranh Bay and has USN and Japanese naval forces scheduled to visit to include supply ships as well as aircraft carriers and other warships.

The sea lanes from the west coast of the USA and from US Pacific Command in Hawaii are open, free and unmolested which allows fast and regular transit.

USN is involved in a large USN shipbuilding program that can't produce fast enough so USN is making a greater efficiency of its use of present resources by increasing forward deployments and by decreasing ship basing from the continental US to points in the Western Pacific.

I wuz and army guy and so were you, but it sounds like you might want to stick to the old special ops that you know so well from the Air-Land Combat style of the old dayze. The US knows a great deal about naval and air operations in the Western Pacific.

[boomerangutang]

This just in......

The Pentagon just found an old hand-drawn map of the Caribbean and some staffer took a felt tip pen and drew a big loop around all its islands. Pentagon top brass looked at the dashed lines and smiled approvingly. The president saw the map, and is now sending US ships (including boats equipped to mix tons of concrete) to various islands. the US re-named all the islands and shoals in the Caribbean, and won't listen (or be a party to) any other countries which don't agree to what's going on there. The US is also sending troops, building long airstrips and placing missile launch facilities set in hardened concrete.

The White House press secretary released a statement today telling the world press corps, "The US doesn't care what anyone thinks, who doesn't agree with US activities in the Caribbean. If anyone has a problem with the expanded US territory, they're welcome to arrange talks with the State Department. BTW, Zambia just announced it is fully in favor of everything the US is doing in the Caribbean, which we have renamed the South USA Sea. If any country wants a military confrontation, it won't be the US who fires the first shot. But all countries should know that the US has a very powerful military, and won't tolerate any resistance to it peacefully taking its rightful islands."

[Publicus]

This just in......

The Pentagon just found an old hand-drawn map of the Caribbean and some staffer took a felt tip pen and drew a big loop around all its islands. Pentagon top brass looked at the dashed lines and smiled approvingly. The president saw the map, and is now sending US ships (including boats equipped to mix tons of concrete) to various islands. the US re-named all the islands and shoals in the Caribbean, and won't listen (or be a party to) any other countries which don't agree to what's going on there. The US is also sending troops, building long airstrips and placing missile launch facilities set in hardened concrete.

The White House press secretary released a statement today telling the world press corps, "The US doesn't care what anyone thinks, who doesn't agree with US activities in the Caribbean. If anyone has a problem with the expanded US territory, they're welcome to arrange talks with the State Department. BTW, Zambia just announced it is fully in favor of everything the US is doing in the Caribbean, which we have renamed the South USA Sea. If any country wants a military confrontation, it won't be the US who fires the first shot. But all countries should know that the US has a very powerful military, and won't tolerate any resistance to it peacefully taking its rightful islands."

Well done.

I'd mentioned in some other SCS threads the joke going around The Hague, that they expect any day now that the CCP will suddenly announce that its moon probe it landed a year ago, called Jade Rabbit, has found a map saying China owns the South China Sea.

And most significant yet that the map will also show the Middle Kingdom owns all of the world itself.

Chariots of the Chinese.