US military units to stay for South China Sea patrols

[boomerangutang]

Some of the China supporters herein are wasting time and diverting, similar to the leaders in smoggy Beijing in re; to the islands they've commandeered.

[Publicus]

Wow it's amazing how much USA fleet intelligence is available in TVF

Should be asking the CCP secret intelligence service to start surfing here ...spying is tiring business but here the commentary is free

Roasted goose is so delicious ...can't see anyone saying no to that.

This poster is not an original source whereas you by your own statement are in personal contact and interaction with CCP high officials on the mainland. The Green Team over there.

So you seem to complain and simultaneously ridicule the USA and the West for publicising their vital information while praising the clever CCP Boyz for hiding theirs. CCP's intentions and tactics are easily identified and countered however.

Here and there (despite 24/7 censorship and interference).

[2fishin2]

Wow it's amazing how much USA fleet intelligence is available in TVF

Should be asking the CCP secret intelligence service to start surfing here ...spying is tiring business but here the commentary is free

Roasted goose is so delicious ...can't see anyone saying no to that.

This poster is not an original source whereas you by your own statement are in personal contact and interaction with CCP high officials on the mainland. The Green Team over there.

So you seem to complain and simultaneously ridicule the USA and the West for publicising their vital information while praising the clever CCP Boyz for hiding theirs. CCP's intentions and tactics are easily identified and countered however.

Here and there (despite 24/7 censorship and interference).

Hate to admit but we've been trolled. Best thing is to quit feeding LC, its a complete waste of time.

[Publicus]

Looks like Japan, after offering assistance to Phils, and now offering assistance to Vietnam in terms of new ships to strength maritime security. Though there is a defense cooperation agreement in place, it's hard to say if this is directly related to China's movements in SCS, but Japan does seem to be a bit more active with cozying up to the affected SE Asia nations.

Japan is now considering Vietnam's request for brand new ships to strengthen the country’s maritime security, Japan's foreign ministry deputy spokesman Masato Otaka told reporters in Hanoi on Thursday.

http://www.thanhniennews.com/politics/japan-considers-providing-new-ships-to-vietnams-coast-guard-61886.html

Japan has been active since CCP Dictators in Beijing began their bellicose behaviors in the East Sea against Japan in 2009 which stood up to 'em and with strong support from the United States backed 'em down to silence and inactivity the past few years.

Now CCP are in for a tougher time trying to take control over Asean and its member states.

Japan Seeks to Boost Role in ASEAN, Challenge China's Growing Influence

BANGKOK— Japan, a longtime supporter of economic development in Southeast Asia, is stepping up its engagement in the region as China has raised its profile in the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

Tokyo is also enhancing its role in Southeast Asia's security debates, especially the South China Sea, where it said the disputes need to be settled by the rule of law and without the use of force.

Earlier this week, Japan announced a three-year, $6.8 billion program to boost regional infrastructure across the Greater Mekong Subregion, which includes parts of Vietnam, Laos and Thailand.

http://www.voanews.com/content/japan-seeks-to-boost-asen-role-challenge-china-influence/3318097.html

The less veiled the better as Shinzo Abe well knows of his Democracy Defense Diamond....

Abe’s Diamond Defense Diplomacy

The crown jewel of Mr. Abe’s policy is a thinly veiled strategy of containment against China, dubbed an “Asian security diamond.”

“I envisage a strategy whereby Australia, India, Japan and the U.S. state of Hawaii form a diamond to safeguard the maritime commons stretching from the Indian Ocean region to the western Pacific,” Mr. Abe wrote. “I am prepared to invest, to the greatest possible extent, Japan’s capabilities in this security diamond.”

In particular, Mr. Abe calls for a greater emphasis on promoting defense and economic cooperation between India and Japan, noting that the two nations must “join together to shoulder more responsibility as guardians of navigational freedom across the Pacific and Indian oceans.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2013/01/17/abes-diamond-defense-diplomacy/

Japan has donated more than $100 million of coastal patrol boats to the Philippines and now is active with Vietnam, to include coming visits by Japanese Maritime Defense Force ships to the new $87 million renovated naval facility at Cam Rahn Bay.

India and Japan have signed a new "strategic partnership" agreement as have India and Vietnam. CCP Dictators in Beijing had publicly hollered and flapped their arms for months ordering India and Japan not to make any such agreements .

CCP is boxed in by neighbors that are almost all democracies and that are standing together against CCP aggression. The PCA in The Hague is about to make it much worse on the CCP as other nations very soon will have the legal justification to join in the campaign to contain the aggressive Beijing Dictators.

CCP Dictators have failed miserably to try to prevent the internationalising of the SCS disputes as individual nations from Japan through Asean to India have become involved due the Phils filing its case with the Permanent Court of Arbitration.

CCP bust. The neighbor from hell.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Publicus

[LawrenceChee]

Wow it's amazing how much USA fleet intelligence is available in TVF

Should be asking the CCP secret intelligence service to start surfing here ...spying is tiring business but here the commentary is free

Roasted goose is so delicious ...can't see anyone saying no to that.

This poster is not an original source whereas you by your own statement are in personal contact and interaction with CCP high officials on the mainland. The Green Team over there.

So you seem to complain and simultaneously ridicule the USA and the West for publicising their vital information while praising the clever CCP Boyz for hiding theirs. CCP's intentions and tactics are easily identified and countered however.

Here and there (despite 24/7 censorship and interference).

Hate to admit but we've been trolled. Best thing is to quit feeding LC, its a complete waste of time.

About time you add an opinion ....the word troll is getting tiring ?

Are you bored ?

[LawrenceChee]

Wow it's amazing how much USA fleet intelligence is available in TVF

Should be asking the CCP secret intelligence service to start surfing here ...spying is tiring business but here the commentary is free

Roasted goose is so delicious ...can't see anyone saying no to that.

This poster is not an original source whereas you by your own statement are in personal contact and interaction with CCP high officials on the mainland. The Green Team over there.

So you seem to complain and simultaneously ridicule the USA and the West for publicising their vital information while praising the clever CCP Boyz for hiding theirs. CCP's intentions and tactics are easily identified and countered however.

Here and there (despite 24/7 censorship and interference).

Military minds are probably fretting over folks like you if you believe military information should be free and open to all in public...what do they think they stamp TOP secret on most military stuff ?

The reality is most of the countries that is inflicting pain or have inflicted pain to the west have no such openness of their tactics and what they can do.

Go and do some research on the recent ones ... Even 9/11 caught you guys by surprise too and that was a real tragedy

5 points for a new term - Green Team

[keemapoot]

The first link below shows a simple graphic that clearly shows the competing claims in the South China Sea for those late to this thread. (The pic is too big to post on the forum). I think this one by ABC Australia illustrates the oil/gas and shipping implications best.

Apart from the fishing, environmental, and maritime territorial issues and the current focus on the Philippines - Vietnam, China & Malaysia, Indonesia & Brunei all have vested interests in the oil and gas fields which are shown on the map. At the same time, the map shows the all-important global shipping routes, so one can get a sense of the economic and geo-strategic (new word learned thanks to one of our members) importance that this conflict has to not just the region, but the world.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-09/china-secret-maritime-militia-the-forward-guard-in-south-china/7391216

Here's a more expansive view of nations claim to areas in the Pacific, including Japan and Taiwan.

And, a map of conflicts in the South China Seas:

Edited May 8, 2016 by keemapoot

[keemapoot]

Business is essential to any economies / countries and we expand jobs and bring contributions.

It's not a dirty word and the assumption that all of us make illicit money is incorrect and a knee jerk jealous reaction

When you do swing to the Mandarin , if you can't find Keemapoot , head to Man Wah my fav Cantonese restaurant , I will ask them to leave a roasted duck for you and I will pick up the tab.

Indeed, Man Wah also one of my favs. But, before dinner, and after the cigars and scotch at Cohiba, we will take Publicus to the Captain's Bar for drinks and have him mix with business types so he can see for himself they are not evil incarnate. Mandarin - one of my local hangouts for 30 years.

And, this light banter is meant to illustrate the one concept that eludes some warmongers on this forum. Let's talk and reason together. To assume ex-ante that the Chinese will not negotiate is not only a misreading of history, but shows a clear lack of experience in dealing with the Chinese.

[LawrenceChee]

You can always get me to the table with good dim sum to talk

Talk , reason , trade it has been the Asian way for centuries.

[Publicus]

Business is essential to any economies / countries and we expand jobs and bring contributions.

It's not a dirty word and the assumption that all of us make illicit money is incorrect and a knee jerk jealous reaction

When you do swing to the Mandarin , if you can't find Keemapoot , head to Man Wah my fav Cantonese restaurant , I will ask them to leave a roasted duck for you and I will pick up the tab.

Indeed, Man Wah also one of my favs. But, before dinner, and after the cigars and scotch at Cohiba, we will take Publicus to the Captain's Bar for drinks and have him mix with business types so he can see for himself they are not evil incarnate. Mandarin - one of my local hangouts for 30 years.

And, this light banter is meant to illustrate the one concept that eludes some warmongers on this forum. Let's talk and reason together. To assume ex-ante that the Chinese will not negotiate is not only a misreading of history, but shows a clear lack of experience in dealing with the Chinese.

Duck in China is excellent in any region of the country but one can prefer the diverse food culture of China beyond the Cantonese one.

If it meets with the (unsought) approval of the local poster cognoscenti, Sichuan or Hunan style -- easy on the spices -- is the favorite of this poster. A fav spot on the SCS itself is Yangjiang not far east of HKG and where the seafood is superb with its Cantonese style, as are the Cantonese night snacks which are scrumptious anywhere anytime and especially on the rare occasions when my own Chinese friends kick off their Dutch shoes to pay.

Your chirping about the CCP Boyz in Beijing being negotiators has yet to manifest in the SCS or in the East Sea involving Japan. Neither youse guyz nor anyone else can provide an instance of actual negotiations in the SCS mess the Boyz have created. The CCP Dictators in Beijing have sabotaged the SCS Code of Conduct they signed with Asean in 2002. The Beijing Boyz then busted up the meeting in Cambodia in 2012 concerning the Asean advocated Declaration of the Conduct of the Parties on the South China Sea. Nobody's tried negotiations with the emperors Boyz in Beijing since.

My post of news accounts of statements issued the past week by CCP Dictators, which is currently on the previous page, is the accurate one in this dispute, i.e., CCP Dictators in Beijing assert absolutely a summary ownership of the SCS and that the world to include of course the countries of the region have no standing or input. The Permanent Court of Arbitration which is about to issue its ruling on the case brought against CCP by the Philippines is rejected completely by CCP.

There's more yet to develop in this SCS power grab by the Dictators in Beijing so while you're presently down on the mat, you're not out yet. You won't be able to get yourself up off the mat however until or unless your legs will support you to swing again.

The one salient factor in this dispute and escalating contest is that the SCS is wholly owned by CCP Dictators in Beijing so there is nothing for them to discuss with anyone anywhere anytime that would result in anything less. No nation or regional body or world body has any claim or acceptable stance, position, analysis, assertion, whether under a bilateral or a regional agreement or by the UNILOS. This is the CCP position in this geostrategic contest. Its absolute Middle Kingdom position.

There are a couple of things you and your Green Team over there show no competence in or about. I've seen nothing in your Green Team posts that indicate any military background or a formal military education or military experience that one can apply as a poster in analysing and discussion this kind of contest. Nor does your Green Team have any actual expertise or experience in Washington in a civilian professional capacity in either the Congress itself or in a connection to the White House.

But youse guyz are certain so go right ahead to claim CCP will negotiate a code or a joint declaration or anything mutual in respect of its revengeful revanchism and its retributive irredentism in the SCS and throughout the region to all points of the compass. Youse have nothing to date that supports your position CCP negotiates. In the world of geostrategic reality this will not change. Anyone who knows the CCP knows this and he knows it with confidence.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Publicus

[LawrenceChee]

That's because when the Chinese negotiate we don't broadcast it on CNN or BBC and do it privately

Like I say , it irks the west a lot that China doesn't play by the rules of your engagement and continue to dictate our own terms and our own way of doing things ; right or wrong like any government of this size , we have a right to try it out and see if it works I out favor

Wait till Vietnam and Philippines gets onboard ...eventually there will be a president that wants trade and a deal over the islands.

The Chinese can wait and negotiate Long term ...after all every one of our president serves out 2.5 of the American one

[Publicus]

Wow it's amazing how much USA fleet intelligence is available in TVF

Should be asking the CCP secret intelligence service to start surfing here ...spying is tiring business but here the commentary is free

Roasted goose is so delicious ...can't see anyone saying no to that.

This poster is not an original source whereas you by your own statement are in personal contact and interaction with CCP high officials on the mainland. The Green Team over there.

So you seem to complain and simultaneously ridicule the USA and the West for publicising their vital information while praising the clever CCP Boyz for hiding theirs. CCP's intentions and tactics are easily identified and countered however.

Here and there (despite 24/7 censorship and interference).

Hate to admit but we've been trolled. Best thing is to quit feeding LC, its a complete waste of time.

Correct and right of course so this poster appreciates the input.

However, for whatever reason CCP won't assign any trained and skilled half-yuans to TVF to propagate their disciplined and organised, systematic, arguments. I deal with the half-yuans at other websites presently and over past years as they are easy to see through and to dissemble. But none of 'em come here. None. Instead this poster gets posters that are a fallen down brit bridge.

So I'll have to continue to thank Mr. Chee for providing me with the occasions to make posts to point out the CCP and its grand schemes that are long planned out and which are (for the most part) carefully and systematically executed. However obvious and heavy handed in each respect.

The new Green Team that makes big bucks off the CCP are a good 1-2 combo to dissemble too so I'd ask reasonable others to try to understand that this poster needs these guyz so he can make his points.

[keemapoot]

^Gawd, Pub, you are the best source of entertainment at TVF, and one of the reasons I am addicted to coming here. Where do guys like you come from? Where do you get the time?

[HLover]

^Gawd, Pub, you are the best source of entertainment at TVF, and one of the reasons I am addicted to coming here. Where do guys like you come from? Where do you get the time?

Flattery will get you banned.

[ExpatOilWorker]

That's because when the Chinese negotiate we don't broadcast it on CNN or BBC and do it privately

Like I say , it irks the west a lot that China doesn't play by the rules of your engagement and continue to dictate our own terms and our own way of doing things ; right or wrong like any government of this size , we have a right to try it out and see if it works I out favor

Wait till Vietnam and Philippines gets onboard ...eventually there will be a president that wants trade and a deal over the islands.

The Chinese can wait and negotiate Long term ...after all every one of our president serves out 2.5 of the American one

China have very little experience in foreign diplomacy and are doomed to make many or even worse mistakes that western powers have in the past. An by doing so, China will get their fingers burned, publicly on CNN, BBC and everywhere else.

[boomerangutang]

Here's a more expansive view of nations claim to areas in the Pacific, including Japan and Taiwan.

Interesting map. Some notes, if the map's dotted lines are to be believed:

Besides the most blatant territory grab by the Chinese, second would be Taiwan's nearly as unfounded stretch of territory grab.

Third would be Vietnam's stretch, to include the Spratly's. Paracels ok, but come on folks. Still, Taiwan and VN's stretches are not as ridiculous nor as saber-rattling as China's.

Malaysia's red line is somewhat ridiculous, if it's what they claim.

Bottom line is, the Spratly Islands are closest to and belong to the Philippines. If you look at a map of Pacific islands with their territorial extensions, you will see many places where the territorial waters meet. They are indicated by straight lines. For example, if two island nations are 150 miles apart and the territorial waters stretch 200 miles around each island, then geometrically, there will be a straight line perpendicular and equidistant from the two islands. It's common. The same can be done in the SCS. Doing that would clearly show the Spratly's being Philippine. There would be no doubt whatsoever, for the simple reason, the islands are much closer to the Phil coast than they are to any other country's coast.

I'll say it again: the entire SCS should be designated an Int'l Marine Park. Here's what other Pacific Island nations are doing.

Obama Aims to create world's largest Ocean Preserve.

Chinese are renown for wanting to save face. With the SCS imbroglio, Li and Xi and all the other iiii's are losing face massively. Concurrently, Obama and the US are garnering worldwide praise for setting aside massive tracts of ocean for Marine Preserves.

Which will it be Beijing? Will it be grabbing other countries' territories, destroying reefs and placing weapons on islands, plus moving toward military conflict, or.........?

Edited May 9, 2016 by boomerangutang

[Publicus]

^Gawd, Pub, you are the best source of entertainment at TVF, and one of the reasons I am addicted to coming here. Where do guys like you come from? Where do you get the time?

Thank you for confirming the point of my posts to you, i.e., you're indeed lost in the geostrategic world of the CCP vs the 99% of nations and peoples.

CCP has not negotiated on the SCS. It has in fact busted up negotiations that date back to 2002 in their (ostensible) mutuality, most recently in 2012. CCP is absolute and long term in its Middle Kingdom mentality. CCP are a new dynasty of emperors in business suits with corporate accounts.

The CCP acts as it does simply and plainly because the self-appointed gods over the earth do not deal with mere mortals, especially when we mortals determine to stand in the path of their head down charging as they assert their birthright over the rest of us. Foolish and pathetic us.

CCP Dictators are in for a hard fall in the modern world of the 21st century but no matter cause the Middle Kingdom mentality and attitude that continues to prevail with 'em needs some hard corrective lessons and adjusting from this time and going forward.

CCP Dictators continue to live in the Old World of win-lose which in the 21st century is the defining characteristic of the guaranteed loser.

[LawrenceChee]

That's because when the Chinese negotiate we don't broadcast it on CNN or BBC and do it privately

Like I say , it irks the west a lot that China doesn't play by the rules of your engagement and continue to dictate our own terms and our own way of doing things ; right or wrong like any government of this size , we have a right to try it out and see if it works I out favor

Wait till Vietnam and Philippines gets onboard ...eventually there will be a president that wants trade and a deal over the islands.

The Chinese can wait and negotiate Long term ...after all every one of our president serves out 2.5 of the American one

China have very little experience in foreign diplomacy and are doomed to make many or even worse mistakes that western powers have in the past. An by doing so, China will get their fingers burned, publicly on CNN, BBC and everywhere else.

If that's your extent of your analysis ...thank god the west must be having better luck in theirs ....

so far Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Iran are all looking pretty good mess and that's better than China's handling of Kim ? I think you misunderstand subtlety for lack of productivity ...keeping an idiot like Kim at bay takes more than just diplomacy and the Chinese have at least kept one theatre stable for the world.

Learn how to appreciate that as much as one take slow sips of Chinese tea ...we don't like the fast paced ones you demand ...we re happy to sip and take it slow

[Boon Mee]

Who cares? Obama has shrunk the US Army to levels not seen since before WW2

The Navy is going the same way.

Isolationism is the flavor of the day and about time in this objective posters opinion.

[keemapoot]

Who cares? Obama has shrunk the US Army to levels not seen since before WW2

The Navy is going the same way.

Isolationism is the flavor of the day and about time in this objective posters opinion.

Yup, on the surface it looks like Trump will pick up all the marbles globally and go home. BUT, with Darth Vader (Cheney) on Trump's team now don't be surprised if Trump does a 360 degree turn and declares war on China, and then expect to see some Cheney-like posters here change allegiance and hail the new Caesar.

* edit, not sure if that is 180 or 360 turn, I was never very good in maths.

**Oh, and also John McCain, so America will bomb, bomb Iran and China.

Edited May 9, 2016 by keemapoot

[Publicus]

Who cares? Obama has shrunk the US Army to levels not seen since before WW2

The Navy is going the same way.

Isolationism is the flavor of the day and about time in this objective posters opinion.

Air-Land Combat is out so the army is being declassed in favor of ground special ops which are fast, mobile, lethal. Nothing bigger than a brigade here or there (5000 troops) or maybe a couple of 'em. No more divisions of 10,000 forces each or tanks or artillery roaming the landscape in some ratty shithole desert someplace.

Air-Sea Battle is the official US warfighting doctrine since 2010 to include a special emphasis on US Marine Corps. This is the present circumstance vs CCP China and also Iran. Russia isn't going anywhere beyond Syria. ASB is a wall of missiles.

Hillary Clinton will be the next Potus and CCP Dictators in Beijing hate her from her days as a US Senator from New York state, and as the SecState that initiated the US Pivot aka Rebalance to the Asia-Pacific. We're in the SCS due to the HRC Rebalance. So youse Trump guyz are in for a swift frontal kick on election day November 8th.

[Publicus]

Who cares? Obama has shrunk the US Army to levels not seen since before WW2

The Navy is going the same way.

Isolationism is the flavor of the day and about time in this objective posters opinion.

Yup, on the surface it looks like Trump will pick up all the marbles globally and go home. BUT, with Darth Vader (Cheney) on Trump's team now don't be surprised if Trump does a 360 degree turn and declares war on China, and then expect to see some Cheney-like posters here change allegiance and hail the new Caesar.

* edit, not sure if that is 180 or 360 turn, I was never very good in maths.

**Oh, and also John McCain, so America will bomb, bomb Iran and China.

180 is for a politician.

360 is for a dancer.

Wuz never good in maths myself and still have a deficit, but my geometry teacher long ago had me write that on the board until there wasn't any space left.

[ExpatOilWorker]

That's because when the Chinese negotiate we don't broadcast it on CNN or BBC and do it privately

Like I say , it irks the west a lot that China doesn't play by the rules of your engagement and continue to dictate our own terms and our own way of doing things ; right or wrong like any government of this size , we have a right to try it out and see if it works I out favor

Wait till Vietnam and Philippines gets onboard ...eventually there will be a president that wants trade and a deal over the islands.

The Chinese can wait and negotiate Long term ...after all every one of our president serves out 2.5 of the American one

China have very little experience in foreign diplomacy and are doomed to make many or even worse mistakes that western powers have in the past. An by doing so, China will get their fingers burned, publicly on CNN, BBC and everywhere else.

If that's your extent of your analysis ...thank god the west must be having better luck in theirs ....

so far Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Iran are all looking pretty good mess and that's better than China's handling of Kim ? I think you misunderstand subtlety for lack of productivity ...keeping an idiot like Kim at bay takes more than just diplomacy and the Chinese have at least kept one theatre stable for the world.

Learn how to appreciate that as much as one take slow sips of Chinese tea ...we don't like the fast paced ones you demand ...we re happy to sip and take it slow

I have never understood the notion that China have time on their side. While China is doing nothing to solve current problems, the west just grows bigger, smarter, wiser and better, while China continue to dig themselves deeper into an abyss of pollution, corruption, fake food products and total lack of trust.

Time is China's worst enemy.

Enjoy your tea, I am going for coffee now.

[Publicus]

That's because when the Chinese negotiate we don't broadcast it on CNN or BBC and do it privately

Like I say , it irks the west a lot that China doesn't play by the rules of your engagement and continue to dictate our own terms and our own way of doing things ; right or wrong like any government of this size , we have a right to try it out and see if it works I out favor

Wait till Vietnam and Philippines gets onboard ...eventually there will be a president that wants trade and a deal over the islands.

The Chinese can wait and negotiate Long term ...after all every one of our president serves out 2.5 of the American one

China have very little experience in foreign diplomacy and are doomed to make many or even worse mistakes that western powers have in the past. An by doing so, China will get their fingers burned, publicly on CNN, BBC and everywhere else.

If that's your extent of your analysis ...thank god the west must be having better luck in theirs ....

so far Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Iran are all looking pretty good mess and that's better than China's handling of Kim ? I think you misunderstand subtlety for lack of productivity ...keeping an idiot like Kim at bay takes more than just diplomacy and the Chinese have at least kept one theatre stable for the world.

Learn how to appreciate that as much as one take slow sips of Chinese tea ...we don't like the fast paced ones you demand ...we re happy to sip and take it slow

take it slow

Slow is the word over there.

Takes 'em a couple of centuries to recognise what's going on around 'em.

Then a couple of centuries to figure out what to do.

And a couple of centuries more to find out they were wrong about that too.

Not a good history, meaning time has never been on the side of China.

[boomerangutang]

Who cares? Obama has shrunk the US Army to levels not seen since before WW2

The Navy is going the same way.

Isolationism is the flavor of the day and about time in this objective posters opinion.

Has he? If so, I applaud him. The US military has been bloated for decades. Partially in response to realizing, when WWII that its tanks were deficient (in Europe when facing off with Panzers) and in the start of WWII when it realized its best fighter planes were no better than Japanese Zeros. During the course of the war, things improved for US forces. Regardless, one thing armies should have learned by now is: bigger doesn't mean better. Iraqis had one of the largest military machines when they invaded Kuwait. A million man army and hundreds of top quality tanks from Russia. They also had expensive fleet of fighter jets. Yet, when the shooting began, Iraqi military folded like a paper crane. There's a similar dynamic with China. Very large numbers may have some advantage in an old style land battles, but they don't mean much today. The ill-equipped Viet Cong defeated the better equipped French, and then when on to defeat (what was believed to be) the unbeatable US military.

If Obama is curtailing runaway spending on US military, it's probably because he and the Joint Chiefs (smoking joints?) realize that a leaner meaner military is more effective than a top-heavy ponderous one. China may have hundreds of admirals, (like Thailand has hundreds of generals) but that doesn't make it a better navy. China is 100 years behind the US in familiarity with aircraft carriers, and 150 yrs behind with subs. Sure, they've done a lot of catching up recently, but they're still basing their strength on Russian and copied US/western technology, along with endless processions of goose-stepping troops.

I have never understood the notion that China have time on their side. While China is doing nothing to solve current problems, the west just grows bigger, smarter, wiser and better, while China continue to dig themselves deeper into an abyss of pollution, corruption, fake food products and total lack of trust.

Time is China's worst enemy. Enjoy your tea, I am going for coffee now.

I mostly agree with your post, but in relation to its SCS territory grabs, time is on China's side. Each week that rolls by, is another week that China can dredge, pour concrete, ship in weapons and troops, and so on. More time = more likely other countries will throw up their hands and say, "well, they've been occupying there a long time and show no sign of vacating, so I guess we have to let things be as the are."

[AYJAYDEE]

Who cares? Obama has shrunk the US Army to levels not seen since before WW2

The Navy is going the same way.

Isolationism is the flavor of the day and about time in this objective posters opinion.

Has he? If so, I applaud him. The US military has been bloated for decades. Partially in response to realizing, when WWII that its tanks were deficient (in Europe when facing off with Panzers) and in the start of WWII when it realized its best fighter planes were no better than Japanese Zeros. During the course of the war, things improved for US forces. Regardless, one thing armies should have learned by now is: bigger doesn't mean better. Iraqis had one of the largest military machines when they invaded Kuwait. A million man army and hundreds of top quality tanks from Russia. They also had expensive fleet of fighter jets. Yet, when the shooting began, Iraqi military folded like a paper crane. There's a similar dynamic with China. Very large numbers may have some advantage in an old style land battles, but they don't mean much today. The ill-equipped Viet Cong defeated the better equipped French, and then when on to defeat (what was believed to be) the unbeatable US military.

If Obama is curtailing runaway spending on US military, it's probably because he and the Joint Chiefs (smoking joints?) realize that a leaner meaner military is more effective than a top-heavy ponderous one. China may have hundreds of admirals, (like Thailand has hundreds of generals) but that doesn't make it a better navy. China is 100 years behind the US in familiarity with aircraft carriers, and 150 yrs behind with subs. Sure, they've done a lot of catching up recently, but they're still basing their strength on Russian and copied US/western technology, along with endless processions of goose-stepping troops.

I have never understood the notion that China have time on their side. While China is doing nothing to solve current problems, the west just grows bigger, smarter, wiser and better, while China continue to dig themselves deeper into an abyss of pollution, corruption, fake food products and total lack of trust.

Time is China's worst enemy. Enjoy your tea, I am going for coffee now.

I mostly agree with your post, but in relation to its SCS territory grabs, time is on China's side. Each week that rolls by, is another week that China can dredge, pour concrete, ship in weapons and troops, and so on. More time = more likely other countries will throw up their hands and say, "well, they've been occupying there a long time and show no sign of vacating, so I guess we have to let things be as the are."

lol! you tell us that an ill-equipped NVA can defeat the USA and then theorize that a better equipped Chinese military is ill equipped and therefore cannot handle the USA!!

[Publicus]

Who cares? Obama has shrunk the US Army to levels not seen since before WW2

The Navy is going the same way.

Isolationism is the flavor of the day and about time in this objective posters opinion.

Has he? If so, I applaud him. The US military has been bloated for decades. Partially in response to realizing, when WWII that its tanks were deficient (in Europe when facing off with Panzers) and in the start of WWII when it realized its best fighter planes were no better than Japanese Zeros. During the course of the war, things improved for US forces. Regardless, one thing armies should have learned by now is: bigger doesn't mean better. Iraqis had one of the largest military machines when they invaded Kuwait. A million man army and hundreds of top quality tanks from Russia. They also had expensive fleet of fighter jets. Yet, when the shooting began, Iraqi military folded like a paper crane. There's a similar dynamic with China. Very large numbers may have some advantage in an old style land battles, but they don't mean much today. The ill-equipped Viet Cong defeated the better equipped French, and then when on to defeat (what was believed to be) the unbeatable US military.

If Obama is curtailing runaway spending on US military, it's probably because he and the Joint Chiefs (smoking joints?) realize that a leaner meaner military is more effective than a top-heavy ponderous one. China may have hundreds of admirals, (like Thailand has hundreds of generals) but that doesn't make it a better navy. China is 100 years behind the US in familiarity with aircraft carriers, and 150 yrs behind with subs. Sure, they've done a lot of catching up recently, but they're still basing their strength on Russian and copied US/western technology, along with endless processions of goose-stepping troops.

I have never understood the notion that China have time on their side. While China is doing nothing to solve current problems, the west just grows bigger, smarter, wiser and better, while China continue to dig themselves deeper into an abyss of pollution, corruption, fake food products and total lack of trust.

Time is China's worst enemy. Enjoy your tea, I am going for coffee now.

I mostly agree with your post, but in relation to its SCS territory grabs, time is on China's side. Each week that rolls by, is another week that China can dredge, pour concrete, ship in weapons and troops, and so on. More time = more likely other countries will throw up their hands and say, "well, they've been occupying there a long time and show no sign of vacating, so I guess we have to let things be as the are."

lol! you tell us that an ill-equipped NVA can defeat the USA and then theorize that a better equipped Chinese military is ill equipped and therefore cannot handle the USA!!

Air-Sea Battle is the official US warfighting doctrine since 2010. The far out left doesn't like it but neither does the CCP which is in fact the far out right. Nothing gets through to either of youse guyz there or here.

Except for Nato, Air-Land Combat is out. No more US land wars and nobody is going to invade the CCP mainland homeland. Nato continues to have Air-Land Combat because of Eurasia and Russia; Putin.

CCP several months ago announced a 300,000 reduction in the PLA active force. CCP has reduced its PLA land forces by 2 million over the past ten years. Armies don't cut it any more.

Even CCP gets that much. PLA is undergoing sharp reductions but PLA remains in overall command of the CCP's armed forces which is creating problems for the PLA Navy in the SCS and in the East Sea. PLA Air Force isn't so thrilled either to remain under the thumb of PLA generals. PLA is the military arm of the Party in a single-party state. It is hardly what other countries know to be a state's armed forces. PLA, PLA Navy, PLA Air Force continue to be run by Party loyalists hacks.

[55Jay]

That's because when the Chinese negotiate we don't broadcast it on CNN or BBC and do it privately

Like I say , it irks the west a lot that China doesn't play by the rules of your engagement and continue to dictate our own terms and our own way of doing things ; right or wrong like any government of this size , we have a right to try it out and see if it works I out favor

Wait till Vietnam and Philippines gets onboard ...eventually there will be a president that wants trade and a deal over the islands.

The Chinese can wait and negotiate Long term ...after all every one of our president serves out 2.5 of the American one

Hello Lawrence,

I see some similarity here to Saddam Hussein v. Kuwait; sans the military incursion up front. China has gotten further than Saddam did, stopped, of course, with US/Coalition intervention, which the vast majority of the world agreed was the right thing to do in that case.

China has seized territory for the purpose of resource exploitation, unilaterally declared it, and vast swaths of sea area, as theirs, claiming sovereign rights and, under that manufactured justification, assert they have the right and duty, to defend it. With force if necessary.

Their bold action and military posturing in defiance of mounting protest, is destabilizing the region and is directly responsible for the military escalation and coalition building taking place. Their refusal in advance, of the imminent opinion everyone, including China, knows will contravene China's claims, is exacerbating the military build up - clearly Talking, Reason and Negotiation was not and is not part of China's strategy here.

Do you accept that China has created and is exacerbating this conflict? Yes or No?

Edit: I am not shrieking at high pitch about a looming crisis of epic, WW3 proportions. I don't see it that way but it is a problem that can not be ignored.

Edited May 9, 2016 by 55Jay

[ExpatOilWorker]

You can always get me to the table with good dim sum to talk

Talk , reason , trade it has been the Asian way for centuries.

Trade, greed and making up fake numbers: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/29/business/international/china-statistics-corruption.html?_r=0

[ExpatOilWorker]

Who cares? Obama has shrunk the US Army to levels not seen since before WW2

The Navy is going the same way.

Isolationism is the flavor of the day and about time in this objective posters opinion.

Has he? If so, I applaud him. The US military has been bloated for decades. Partially in response to realizing, when WWII that its tanks were deficient (in Europe when facing off with Panzers) and in the start of WWII when it realized its best fighter planes were no better than Japanese Zeros. During the course of the war, things improved for US forces. Regardless, one thing armies should have learned by now is: bigger doesn't mean better. Iraqis had one of the largest military machines when they invaded Kuwait. A million man army and hundreds of top quality tanks from Russia. They also had expensive fleet of fighter jets. Yet, when the shooting began, Iraqi military folded like a paper crane. There's a similar dynamic with China. Very large numbers may have some advantage in an old style land battles, but they don't mean much today. The ill-equipped Viet Cong defeated the better equipped French, and then when on to defeat (what was believed to be) the unbeatable US military.

If Obama is curtailing runaway spending on US military, it's probably because he and the Joint Chiefs (smoking joints?) realize that a leaner meaner military is more effective than a top-heavy ponderous one. China may have hundreds of admirals, (like Thailand has hundreds of generals) but that doesn't make it a better navy. China is 100 years behind the US in familiarity with aircraft carriers, and 150 yrs behind with subs. Sure, they've done a lot of catching up recently, but they're still basing their strength on Russian and copied US/western technology, along with endless processions of goose-stepping troops.

I have never understood the notion that China have time on their side. While China is doing nothing to solve current problems, the west just grows bigger, smarter, wiser and better, while China continue to dig themselves deeper into an abyss of pollution, corruption, fake food products and total lack of trust.

Time is China's worst enemy. Enjoy your tea, I am going for coffee now.

I mostly agree with your post, but in relation to its SCS territory grabs, time is on China's side. Each week that rolls by, is another week that China can dredge, pour concrete, ship in weapons and troops, and so on. More time = more likely other countries will throw up their hands and say, "well, they've been occupying there a long time and show no sign of vacating, so I guess we have to let things be as the are."

It may seem that time is on China's side in the SCS disputes, but on the other hand this drawn out salami or pealing onion approach is also strengthening the west. The American navy is now firmly back in the Philippines and over time a few island might unify all the other countries around the SCS, totally isolating China. Only the future will tell.