Obama says EU membership makes Britain great

[Credo]

Fallacy of the appeal to authority; the problem is, his legitimacy is only the office, no longer the person. One thing is viscerally clear: Obama does not believe staying in the EU magnifies the UK; Obama believes UK staying in the the EU magnifies the US. (His Freudian threat suggests this).

The two are not mutually exclusive.

[samran]

Fallacy of the appeal to authority; the problem is, his legitimacy is only the office, no longer the person. One thing is viscerally clear: Obama does not believe staying in the EU magnifies the UK; Obama believes UK staying in the the EU magnifies the US. (His Freudian threat suggests this).

And what is wrong with that? He's the president looking to maintain and maximise his country's influence. Sounds to me he is doing his job. That it dovetailes with a sound economic case for the UK staying in the EU, then all the better.

[nontabury]

Fallacy of the appeal to authority; the problem is, his legitimacy is only the office, no longer the person. One thing is viscerally clear: Obama does not believe staying in the EU magnifies the UK; Obama believes UK staying in the the EU magnifies the US. (His Freudian threat suggests this).

And what is wrong with that? He's the president looking to maintain and maximise his country's influence. Sounds to me he is doing his job. That it dovetailes with a sound economic case for the UK staying in the EU, then all the better.

Correct He's looking after the interest of the USA. No suggestion of him urging the American people to give up their independence. As for economic sense to stay in,that has not been proven. More than one of your own Aussie politicians,reckon it would be crazy for the UK to continue in this corrupt organization.

[samran]

Fallacy of the appeal to authority; the problem is, his legitimacy is only the office, no longer the person. One thing is viscerally clear: Obama does not believe staying in the EU magnifies the UK; Obama believes UK staying in the the EU magnifies the US. (His Freudian threat suggests this).

And what is wrong with that? He's the president looking to maintain and maximise his country's influence. Sounds to me he is doing his job. That it dovetailes with a sound economic case for the UK staying in the EU, then all the better.

Correct He's looking after the interest of the USA. No suggestion of him urging the American people to give up their independence. As for economic sense to stay in,that has not been proven. More than one of your own Aussie politicians,reckon it would be crazy for the UK to continue in this corrupt organization.

As I said, it is his job. Even if being the EU made no economic sense for the UK, but the US viewed the UK's membership as giving itself more leverage to influence the EU via the UK still being there, than he should advocate for that too. What goes unsaid on any of this is that Obama wouldn't have made his comments unless there was sign off from the British government, probably HM Treasury, the Commonwealth and foriegn office as well as No. 10 itself.

We are going to agree to disagree on this one, but having access to a common market right next door makes much more economic sense than trying to cobble together a frayed tapestry of sub-optimal trade agreements which gawd knows who in different far flung corners of the world.

AS for my country's politican's saying what you've claimed, it wouldn't suprise me though I haven't read it myself. London to a brick though, the likely suspects who would have said that would have been arch-monarchists, still looking for the baubles of knighthoods and whatnot from a foriegn power 10,000 miles away. Talk about hypocracy on their behalf, I mean banging on to UK exiting the EU as a way of letting them continue to tug at the forelocks of the 'motherland'.

As for the US, well the US economy pretty big in and of itself. It includes 50 states, relatively independent, who have ceeded some of their sovereignty to the federal government. As such you have the largest economy in the world, even though California could decide to go it alone and still be the 10th largest global economy it its own right. But it doesn't, and for good reason. Better to be inside the tent than outside.....

In turn, all major trading nations ceede some of their independence to central international bodies - whether they be the IJC or other organisations. Fact is, you need to do this if you are going to have a modicum of common standards and agreements for - lets call it - 'rules of the game'.

Believe me, I don't think the EU is perfect. But on balance I think you blokes don't quite realise that the grass ain't greener on the otherside.

If I was still living there, I'd have a vote on this too (as all other Commonwealth and Irish citizens, though for some strange reason, EU nationals don't - a nice irony). The only way I'd vote no is out of pure self-interest, and for me that would be if PM to be Boris made an iron-clad guarantee that all Australians could live and work freely in the UK, as he has alluded to in the past. But then, he is a politican, and I take that with a massive grain of salt. So on balance, better to be in than out, for me at least, by a couple of lengths.

[mrfill]

and what does he know about running a country...........................

Vote Brexit

EU, it tried, it failed

Time to move on, and abandon ship before all the lifeboats are taken

Why be part of a union, where the majority of its members are much worse off than yourself and expect you to prop them up

just makes no sense

So you would advocate California leaving the USA then?

[craigt3365]

and what does he know about running a country...........................

Vote Brexit

EU, it tried, it failed

Time to move on, and abandon ship before all the lifeboats are taken

Why be part of a union, where the majority of its members are much worse off than yourself and expect you to prop them up

just makes no sense

So you would advocate California leaving the USA then?

Nothing stopping them from doing that. Follow the laws and it could happen. Having lived in California for many years, that's nothing they'd ever consider. At least a significant majority.

[Scotwight]

and what does he know about running a country...........................

Vote Brexit

EU, it tried, it failed

Time to move on, and abandon ship before all the lifeboats are taken

Why be part of a union, where the majority of its members are much worse off than yourself and expect you to prop them up

just makes no sense

So you would advocate California leaving the USA then?

Nothing stopping them from doing that. Follow the laws and it could happen. Having lived in California for many years, that's nothing they'd ever consider. At least a significant majority.

A. Lincoln

I hold that, in contemplation of universal law, and of the Constitution, the union of these States is perpetual....It follows....that no State, upon its own mere motion, can lawfully get out of the Union; that resolves and ordinances to that effect are legally void; and that acts of violence, within any State or States, against the authority of the United States, are insurrectionary or revolutionary, according to circumstances. I, therefore, consider that, in view of the Constitution and the laws, the Union is unbroken.

Plainly, the central idea of secession is the essence of anarchy. A majority, held in restraint by constitutional checks and limitations and always changing easily with deliberate changes of popular opinins and sentiments, is the only true sovereign of a free people. Whoever rejects it does of necessity fly to anarchy or despotism. Unanimity is impossible; the rule of a minority, as a permanent arrangement, is wholly inadmissible; so that, rejecting the majority principle, anarchy or despotism in some form is all that is left.

The principle [secession] itself is one of disintegration, and upon which no government can possibly endure.