Israeli forces shoot dead 16-year-old Palestinian boy and his sister

[dexterm]

It is interesting that Israel, one of the world's leading experts and exporters of security systems, never seems to install CCTV at these sensitive checkpoints or equip 2 or 3 IDF at each with tamper proof body cams as other armies and police forces around the world do.

Would be great PR for them if they did, and go some way to defending the individual actions of the soldiers on the spot in these controversial extra judicial executions. But there's an obvious reason why they do not.

[i claudius]

Looks like they should have accepted the UN Deal in 1948, instead of declaring war on the Jews for doing so.

They could have had their own country for the past 70 years like the Israelis do.

Off topic deflection with your usual cracked record canard.

The teen and his sister murdered by the IDF were not even born then. Nor were their parents. Look to the future, not the past.

repeat after me .

If you ignore the past ,you jepardise the future(star wars quote)

if you ignore the past you are doomed to repeat it

[Scott]

Quite a few posters can expect a posting suspension if they continue with the inflammatory language and remarks made at other members.

Stick to the topic or face a suspension. That is a promise.

[Jingthing]

It's an especially tense time with it being Pesach and many Jews now at the Temple Mount and new concerns that Palestinian terrorists will start using suicide bombs again because of the recent suicide bomb in the Israeli capitol Jerusalem. So the aggressive pregnant woman was suspected of having a bomb.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

So the woman waved a knife but they found it on the boy body...Israeli probably use thai police nowdays

[AYJAYDEE]

It's an especially tense time with it being Pesach and many Jews now at the Temple Mount and new concerns that Palestinian terrorists will start using suicide bombs again because of the recent suicide bomb in the Israeli capitol Jerusalem. So the aggressive pregnant woman was suspected of having a bomb.

aggressive pregnant woman? lol

[Jingthing]

It seems obvious they thought she was a suicide bomber. Mistakes like that happen in conflict zones. The IDF should investigate the incident.

[AYJAYDEE]

It seems obvious they thought she was a suicide bomber. Mistakes like that happen in conflict zones. The IDF should investigate the incident.

yeah, i cant think of a less biased candidate for that job !! lol

[Thorgal]

Was not too difficult to the Israeli security forces to neutralise a religious radical after stabbing 6 innocent LGBT people during last Gay Parade in Jerusalem.

I don't understand why a pregnant woman and a 16-year old teenager had to be killed with almost 10 rounds each...with military weapons...

Edited April 28, 2016 by Thorgal

[Baerboxer]

Let's see if the IDF carry out an investigation.

They usually do, and have when appropriate brought charges against soldiers who acted illegally.

In this case they have two deaths to investigate and also why soldiers chose to fire tear gas at media crews. That can be taken as a cover up attempt or panic from the commanding officer present.

You will never ever see a terrorist organization investigate how it's members behave or punish them to breaking laws.

[Morch]

Alleged to be carrying knives. Witnessess said the knives were planted later.

"A Palestinian bus driver present at the scene, Muhammad Ahmad, told Ma’an that the Israeli officer who opened fire on Maram was standing behind a cement block some 20 meters away from her at the time. The driver said it did not appear that Maram or her brother posed any threat when the officer shot them.

Palestinian local and witness to the incident Ahmad Taha told Ma’an that Israeli officers approached the two after they had been shot and had fallen to the ground before opening fire on them again “to ensure that they were dead,” adding that the officers “could have moved the two away without opening fire.”

http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=771316

Cold blooded murder by the IDF yet again.

Quite an assertion there. Anything to support it other than Ma'an (hardly the paragon of objectivity reliability), quoting an alleged witness, himself making an unverified claim?

If one wishes to claim alleged carried knives on the strength of the above report, it would probably be prudent to claim alleged planting of evidence, rather than implying it to be a fact.

[AYJAYDEE]

Let's see if the IDF carry out an investigation.

They usually do, and have when appropriate brought charges against soldiers who acted illegally.

In this case they have two deaths to investigate and also why soldiers chose to fire tear gas at media crews. That can be taken as a cover up attempt or panic from the commanding officer present.

You will never ever see a terrorist organization investigate how it's members behave or punish them to breaking laws.

terrorist organizations punish their members for breaking their rules all the time

[Steely Dan]

Had the would be terrorists succeeded in killing someone and were subsequently arrested unscathed I suspect this thread would be somewhat shorter, that's if it existed at all.

[Morch]

Quoting a Palestinian bus driver is like asking drug addict to explain why did he burgled

the house, what did you expect the Palestinian to say????

Kids, or adults for that matter, has no business being near or approaching soldiers in threatening

manners knowing full well that everybody is on knife edge and frail nerves....

Your besmirching of a Palestinian witness purely on the grounds of his ethnicity speaks volumes about your racism.

The extra judicial execution took place in the illegally occupied West Bank, when a pregnant Palestinian and her brother in their own land had to approach a checkpoint manned by foreign Israeli psychopathic thugs.

I would suggest it was the fully armed cowardly Israeli soldiers who were the ones who had no business there as an occupying force telling Palestinians where and where not they can go, then murdering them when they can't understand instructions to stop in Hebrew..the language of the invader.

Ah, the usual "besmirching". Are you claiming now that Palestinians are, as a rule, objective and accurate witnesses? Not biased or motivated in the least to alter account of events? Obviously, not much trouble applying what is whinged about with regard to the other side. Them double standards again.

As for not understanding instructions - most soldiers manning checkpoint know at least rudimentary Arabic to convey simple instructions (even more so when it comes to police and border patrol units). Most Palestinians got at least a basic grasp of Hebrew to follow them. There are also signs in Arabic, and usually other Palestinians around who know the drill. If the above is not enough, most people know better than to act in a suspicious manner when dealing with security forces.

[Morch]

No you undertsand it incorrectlty.

>>I look forward to the IDF protecting all people within their borders

I look forward to that too.... Israel telling us where their borders are! The murder took place outside the 1967 lines in land illegally occupied by Israel. The cowardly invading Israelis murdered two Palestinians in Palestinian land, not within Israel.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/913275-israeli-forces-shoot-dead-16-year-old-palestinian-boy-and-his-sister/?p=10686062

[Morch]

According to Ha'retz newspaper, a left leaning publications, the woman is a 23 years old pregnant

and her brother that been described as a ' man ' and not a kid,

both found to have 3 knives in their belonging, one was thrown at the soldiers, both have ignored

repeated warning to back off and leave that area, those orders were ignored and more threatening

moves were initiate by the pair, at which point, they were both shot.....

the pregnant issue comes to play in fear of the woman might be strapping an explosive belt

in a guise of being with child.....

Here's the link:

Two Palestinian Siblings Shot Dead After Attempted Knife Attack at West Bank Checkpoint

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.716623

[dexterm]

Quoting a Palestinian bus driver is like asking drug addict to explain why did he burgled

the house, what did you expect the Palestinian to say????

Kids, or adults for that matter, has no business being near or approaching soldiers in threatening

manners knowing full well that everybody is on knife edge and frail nerves....

Your besmirching of a Palestinian witness purely on the grounds of his ethnicity speaks volumes about your racism.

The extra judicial execution took place in the illegally occupied West Bank, when a pregnant Palestinian and her brother in their own land had to approach a checkpoint manned by foreign Israeli psychopathic thugs.

I would suggest it was the fully armed cowardly Israeli soldiers who were the ones who had no business there as an occupying force telling Palestinians where and where not they can go, then murdering them when they can't understand instructions to stop in Hebrew..the language of the invader.

Ah, the usual "besmirching". Are you claiming now that Palestinians are, as a rule, objective and accurate witnesses? Not biased or motivated in the least to alter account of events? Obviously, not much trouble applying what is whinged about with regard to the other side. Them double standards again.

As for not understanding instructions - most soldiers manning checkpoint know at least rudimentary Arabic to convey simple instructions (even more so when it comes to police and border patrol units). Most Palestinians got at least a basic grasp of Hebrew to follow them. There are also signs in Arabic, and usually other Palestinians around who know the drill. If the above is not enough, most people know better than to act in a suspicious manner when dealing with security forces.

No doubt the named Palestinian witness will be called before the thorough? independent? coroner's investigation that is bound ? to follow.

There's something rotten in the state of Israel..apologies to the Bard...when it is par for the course to execute a pregnant woman and her younger brother coming to her aid.

Signs in Arabic..whitewash in Hebrew. and not a sniff of any CCTV footage. You'd think the Israeli government would make it a priority to install them everywhere to defuse tension and avoid the constant controversy.

[thai3]

Good news, hopefully will put off other brainwashed Jew haters form trying to kill soldiers

Edited April 28, 2016 by thai3

[Morch]

After posting seven times to this thread...we are getting the idea that ole Dex does not like Israelis...

Walk a mile in the shoes of someone who lives in fear for his life on a daily basis...then tell us how you would have handled that situation...

The ages...pregnant or no...makes no difference...they approached with knives...and if you have been keeping up with the news...then you know this is the new weapon of choice for Palestinians of late...and many Jews have either been killed or injured...

The soldiers could probably used their rifle butts to fend off the apparent would be attackers...but why give them another chance to kill someone?

Nothing against Israelis at all, nor Jews. Have shared shabbat with Israeli Jews and enjoyed many a pleasant trek with Israelis.

It is the policies of the current right wing Israeli government in illegally occupying Palestinian land outside the 67 lines that I object to. This is where the murder took place.

If the cowardly IDF fears for his life, so he should..he's an invader. If he wants to feel safe, get back to your own side of the internationally accepted de facto border.

If the IDF insists on being an army of illegal occupation, I would suggest their superiors train them in the same techniques as other police and armed forces around the world...tasers, pepper spray, rubber bullets. Live ammunition should be a last resort, not a first one.

Spare us.

You have previously expressed the views that amount to defining most Israeli Jews as "racist".

You have previously expressed the views that any "aid" (in a very broad sense) given to the IDF, makes one a legitimate targets for Palestinian violence.

The IDF is not composed solely of right wing voters, or is even exclusively Israeli Jewish (quite relevant to units often manning said check point).

The IDF does not insist on occupying the West Bank, but follows government policies.

[jesimps]

Looks like they should have accepted the UN Deal in 1948, instead of declaring war on the Jews for doing so.

They could have had their own country for the past 70 years like the Israelis do.

Off topic deflection with your usual cracked record canard.

The teen and his sister murdered by the IDF were not even born then. Nor were their parents. Look to the future, not the past.

Don't you mean "Shot in self defence by the IDF"?

No of course you don't, you're a lefty Israeli hater.

[Morch]

It is interesting that Israel, one of the world's leading experts and exporters of security systems, never seems to install CCTV at these sensitive checkpoints or equip 2 or 3 IDF at each with tamper proof body cams as other armies and police forces around the world do.

Would be great PR for them if they did, and go some way to defending the individual actions of the soldiers on the spot in these controversial extra judicial executions. But there's an obvious reason why they do not.

Most armies that use body/helmet cams do so for operational purposes, less so for possible legal and PR issues. There is no way for an occupation army to win a media battle, regardless of actions taken. Regular checkpoints are equipped with CCTV systems.

[Morch]

So the woman waved a knife but they found it on the boy body...Israeli probably use thai police nowdays

According to the police, as the two approached, the woman's hand was buried inside her bag and his hand was behind his back. The two eventually heeded the police's call, stopping a short distance from the officers and turning away, but the woman then spun back around and pulled out the knife, throwing it directly at one of the officers. Police and security guards then shot the two.

The police found another knife identical to the one she was carrying, while a switchblade was found on the her brother's body.

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.716623

[jesimps]

After posting seven times to this thread...we are getting the idea that ole Dex does not like Israelis...

Walk a mile in the shoes of someone who lives in fear for his life on a daily basis...then tell us how you would have handled that situation...

The ages...pregnant or no...makes no difference...they approached with knives...and if you have been keeping up with the news...then you know this is the new weapon of choice for Palestinians of late...and many Jews have either been killed or injured...

The soldiers could probably used their rifle butts to fend off the apparent would be attackers...but why give them another chance to kill someone?

Nothing against Israelis at all, nor Jews. Have shared shabbat with Israeli Jews and enjoyed many a pleasant trek with Israelis.

It is the policies of the current right wing Israeli government in illegally occupying Palestinian land outside the 67 lines that I object to. This is where the murder took place.

If the cowardly IDF fears for his life, so he should..he's an invader. If he wants to feel safe, get back to your own side of the internationally accepted de facto border.

If the IDF insists on being an army of illegal occupation, I would suggest their superiors train them in the same techniques as other police and armed forces around the world...tasers, pepper spray, rubber bullets. Live ammunition should be a last resort, not a first one.

You aren't worried about the Palestinians specifically, you're just a fanatical leftie opposed to anything you perceive as being right wing.

[Morch]

It's an especially tense time with it being Pesach and many Jews now at the Temple Mount and new concerns that Palestinian terrorists will start using suicide bombs again because of the recent suicide bomb in the Israeli capitol Jerusalem. So the aggressive pregnant woman was suspected of having a bomb.

All very convenient for the cowardly IDF psychopath.

Perhaps in their basic training they should be taught how to disarm pregnant women and children from a safe distance of 20 meters behind a concrete barrier, rather than how to murder Palestinians with impugnity and play the pro forma "I thought there might be a hidden bomb" excuse.

His actions in from a place of safety approaching the dead/injured siblings in order to execute them belies his fears of a hidden bomb.

How would you suggest disarming suspects from a distance?

Are suicide bombers a myth?

Other than treating the Ma'an report as fact, no support for the above description of events?

[Jingthing]

Like I said, it's likely the threat of suicide bombers is more on the radar because of the recent suicide bomb on the Jerusalem bus.

[Rancid]

They'll probably build a Monument to celebrate the latest Israeli military victory. It must engender great pride to support these heroic efforts.

[Steely Dan]

Quoting a Palestinian bus driver is like asking drug addict to explain why did he burgled

the house, what did you expect the Palestinian to say????

Kids, or adults for that matter, has no business being near or approaching soldiers in threatening

manners knowing full well that everybody is on knife edge and frail nerves....

Your besmirching of a Palestinian witness purely on the grounds of his ethnicity speaks volumes about your racism.

The extra judicial execution took place in the illegally occupied West Bank, when a pregnant Palestinian and her brother in their own land had to approach a checkpoint manned by foreign Israeli psychopathic thugs.

I would suggest it was the fully armed cowardly Israeli soldiers who were the ones who had no business there as an occupying force telling Palestinians where and where not they can go, then murdering them when they can't understand instructions to stop in Hebrew..the language of the invader.

Ah, the usual "besmirching". Are you claiming now that Palestinians are, as a rule, objective and accurate witnesses? Not biased or motivated in the least to alter account of events? Obviously, not much trouble applying what is whinged about with regard to the other side. Them double standards again.

As for not understanding instructions - most soldiers manning checkpoint know at least rudimentary Arabic to convey simple instructions (even more so when it comes to police and border patrol units). Most Palestinians got at least a basic grasp of Hebrew to follow them. There are also signs in Arabic, and usually other Palestinians around who know the drill. If the above is not enough, most people know better than to act in a suspicious manner when dealing with security forces.

No doubt the named Palestinian witness will be called before the thorough? independent? coroner's investigation that is bound ? to follow.

There's something rotten in the state of Israel..apologies to the Bard...when it is par for the course to execute a pregnant woman and her younger brother coming to her aid.

Signs in Arabic..whitewash in Hebrew. and not a sniff of any CCTV footage. You'd think the Israeli government would make it a priority to install them everywhere to defuse tension and avoid the constant controversy.

I see your indignation at 'besmirching' only goes one way, as you evidently have no problem doing the same with any investigation before one is even announced. The fact the woman was pregnant is merely yet more emotive baggage to sell to the converted and neither explains or mitigates her actions. Edited April 28, 2016 by Steely Dan

[Jingthing]

They'll probably build a Monument to celebrate the latest Israeli military victory. It must engender great pride to support these heroic efforts.

That's mixed up. It's the other way around for the supposed martyrs.

[Steely Dan]

They'll probably build a Monument to celebrate the latest Israeli military victory. It must engender great pride to support these heroic efforts.

The Palestinians build monuments to murderers, the Israelis investigate and where appropriate prosecute.

[Morch]

When an armed soldier (of any nationality) at a checkpoint asks you not to approach him, it would be wise to take heed. When there has been recent history of persons of your nationality/religion/racial group attacking said soldiers, failing to heed is near suicidal.

Perhaps the Israeli government could invest in some intense language tuition to teach their soldiers to say stop in Arabic from behind a cement barrier 20 meters away.

It's pretty clear what happened.

The siblings were taking a shortcut along one of the apartheid for Israeli Jewish colonists only roads (there's a network of separate roads in the West Bank) because the occupying IDF make life hell for Palestinians queueing up for hours in the hot sun at the regular pedestrian checkpoints.

The woman is 5 months pregnant. She is hardly likely to want to endanger the life of her unborn baby. Some trigger happy Israeli psychopathic thug tells them to stop in Hebrew. The siblings panic. But the IDF wants to murder, because he knows he can with impugnity. He shoots the woman as they are withdrawing. Her brother tries to help her, so the cowardly soldier murders him too. Then steps forward from behind his concrete barrier to execute them. Then plants knives to cover his tracks.

It's pretty clear what happened? .Do you have link corroborating this fantasy?

"Witnesses told Ma’an that 23-year-old Maram Salih Hassan Abu Ismail, five months pregnant, and her 16-year-old brother Ibrahim were en route to Jerusalem when they took a path intended for vehicles, not pedestrians, into Qalandiya checkpoint near Ramallah. The two were apparently unable to understand Israeli officers yelling in Hebrew, and stopped walking.

Witnesses said it appeared that Ibrahim attempted to grab his sister's hand and move away from the officers, when they opened fire on her."

http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=771316

Again, using the Ma'an report as corroborated proof is a poor attempt to mislead. Some of what you posted does not even appear in the linked report. If the intent was to take a shortcut, the duo would not have come anywhere near the check point. Skipping military check points on foot does not seem congruent with being concerned for the welfare of an unborn baby.

Hence, not "what happened", but what "you imagine happened". The usual gap there.