Can a mother get sole custody without the father knowing?

[JungleBiker]

This concerns a Thai couple. In their divorce agreement they agreed to share custody of their son. For several years, the little boy spent weekends with his mother and weekdays with his father (and also attending kindergarten). Later the mother remarried to a foreigner. Soon after remarrying, she went to her new husband's country for several months and then came back. After she returned they resumed the same arrangement (weekends with mother, weekdays with father). But during this period, unknown to the Thai father, she went to the court and obtained a document giving her sole custody. The Thai father was not involved or informed. Then one day, totally out of the blue, during a weekend, the mother informed the father she was in Bangkok (they were normally in another city several hundred kilometres away) and that she was leaving the country later that day, with their son, to join her husband in the other country. This was in February. There was some video contact after that during which the father learned what she had done (i.e. obtained sole custody without his knowledge). But several weeks ago the communication stopped. The father no longer has any means to communicate with his son. He wants him back. I have become involved via a mutual friend. Because I speak English, they want me to try to make contact with the stepfather - they think he may not know how his wife took the boy from his father. I would like to ask TV members, is it really possible for a Thai mother to (legally) obtain sole custody without the father being involved or even being informed of the court process?

[arrowsdawdle]

Where do you think you are, Toto? Look around, see any Kansas license plates?

[SOTIRIOS]

....I am told...in court proceeding now.....

...regardless of all other facts...or the character or behavior of the mother....

...the courts will favor the mother in just about whatever request....

...and for foreign fathers alone....it is even worse....

[user82374298374]

> I have become involved via a mutual friend.

Ensure your will is in order and your life insurance is paid in full!

[bluebluewater]

A copy of the Thai ID card, divorce papers, and a notarized statement from just any 'ol lawyer who will be glad to take the money and say "Yep, I saw him sign it" and the custody issue is done and dusted.

[MikeyIdea]

Juvenile court is one of the least corrupt institutions there is in Thailand. Money didn't do this. Anyone who insinuates differently doesn't know the difference between civil, criminal and Juvenile court

First of all: The father should go to the amphur and request a printout of the childs current custody status. Thai ID card of the father is enough but it makes it more difficult for the officer to find information so he should bring birth certificate too if he can, at least something that has the childs ID card number on. Whatever is on the amphur computer is not a 100% guarantee because it's the plaintiff who takes Juvenile court orders to amphur to get the records updated in Thailand. If sole custody, then get information how it was obtained and from which court

Kor Ror 11 is shared custody and if I remember right Kor Ror 13 is sole custody

Courts in Thailand has specific rules when it comes to how defendants are summoned. The defendant is contacted more than once, it starts with a registered mail letter to his/her registered address and ends with an official physically going to the registered address to seek contact. He asks people he can find there and then he finally posts the summon on the door or a tree or whatever suitable if he can't get hold of the person summoned and reports back to court. There is an obligatory waiting time between each contact.

I find it impossible almost that a Juvenile court would grant sole custody to the mother in one single court session with the father absent. Thai Juvenile courts normally don't work that way, they postpone to give the defendant at least one more chance (most of the time more than one chance too) before they do something as drastic as removing custody. That triggers new sets of summons including the official going to the registered address again

Then there is the right to the defendant to appeal. If the defendant didn't come to the final court session, then that's new sets of summons including the official going to the registered address again

Could all that have happened without him knowing? If yes, then possible, otherwise not

Michael

Edited April 29, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[pbeieio]

Well it happened to me, so yes it can be done.

In my case I suspect that my ex wife lied to the court by saying that she did not know where I lived. Hence I received no summons nor notification of proceedings!

Does anyone think I could challenge the ruling based on this?

[pbeieio]

Juvenile court is one of the least corrupt institutions there is in Thailand. Money didn't do this. Anyone who insinuates differently doesn't know the difference between civil, criminal and Juvenile court

First of all: The father should go to the amphur and request a printout of the childs current custody status. Thai ID card of the father is enough but it makes it more difficult for the officer to find information so he should bring birth certificate too if he can, at least something that has the childs ID card number on. Whatever is on the amphur computer is not a 100% guarantee because it's the plaintiff who takes Juvenile court orders to amphur to get the records updated in Thailand. If sole custody, then get information how it was obtained and from which court

Kor Ror 11 is shared custody and if I remember right Kor Ror 13 is sole custody

Courts in Thailand has specific rules when it comes to how defendants are summoned. The defendant is contacted more than once, it starts with a registered mail letter to his/her registered address and ends with an official physically going to the registered address to seek contact. He asks people he can find there and then he finally posts the summon on the door or a tree or whatever suitable if he can't get hold of the person summoned and reports back to court. There is an obligatory waiting time between each contact.

I find it impossible almost that a Juvenile court would grant sole custody to the mother in one single court session with the father absent. Thai Juvenile courts normally don't work that way, they postpone to give the defendant at least one more chance (most of the time more than one chance too) before they do something as drastic as removing custody. That triggers new sets of summons including the official going to the registered address again

Then there is the right to the defendant to appeal. If the defendant didn't come to the final court session, then that's new sets of summons including the official going to the registered address again

Could all that have happened without him knowing? If yes, then possible, otherwise not

Michael

Noted

Edited April 29, 2016 by pbeieio

[laolover88]

As usual not enough information to make any informed comment! How did she get the child out of the country? What passports and visas? Why was there not a notarised paper of joint custody from the Thai court? They agreed..oh come on!! And anyway which countries and married and divorced and remarried where?? While Thailand may scorn the Hague Convention the courts do take the child's interest as the basis of decisions. Not cheap but the Thai guy might be looking at pursuing the foreigner for aiding and abetting child abduction. Finding a foreigner in Thailand is one thing, finding a Thai with Tabian Ban and ID is easy.

[MikeyIdea]

Well it happened to me, so yes it can be done.

In my case I suspect that my ex wife lied to the court by saying that she did not know where I lived. Hence I received no summons nor notification of proceedings!

Does anyone think I could challenge the ruling based on this?

Same problem in most countries including western ones when parent is a foreigner:

Court *must* have tried to contact you somehow. Get a lawyer to bring a copy of the court order to the court where it was issued and ask for evidence what was done to try to contact you. Do not wait, the colder this gets, the less chance you have

As always, your chance depends on what evidence you have. If you can prove that you were an active father when you had access, especially if access happened while the mother said she didn't know where you lived, then you do have a case. Can you prove that she lied about not knowing where you lived? Can you prove that you paid for the child / education while she said she didn't know where you lived? Then you have a good case

Overall, Juvenile Court is good at seeing to the childs best: If they see evidence that it is good for the child to have contact with you and you can prove that the mother lied, then I see no reason why they wouldn't at least ensure that you get access, quite possibly also get your custody back. There are a whole lot of people not knowing how Juvenile court works posting on ThaiVisa, don't bother reading their posts...

As always and very important! Juvenile court will nearly always want a negotiated decision and nearly all Thai lawyers will try to get their clients to accept the deal that the court wants to offer you. Meaning that it is normally not Juvenile court that is bad, it's the Thai lawyer...

Please let me know what happens

Michael