Brexit campaign is told to focus on immigration

[dick dasterdly]

http:/Blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/4/live-from-the-London -palladium-the-spectators-brexit-debate/

paulpj2

As we all know this referendum is not only about immigration, but also the effect it would have on the UK economy, the future existence of the U.K. itself and the state of democracy in the U.K.

Well in the recent debate in the UK we had Nigel Farage the experienced leader of the largest UK party in the European Parliament describing the EU as being undemocratic,no surprise there then. Dan Hannan leaders of the Conservatives in the EP also stating, that with his experience in Brussels,or is it Strasberg this week, he had to agree with NF. Theses two were then joined by Kate Hoey,a veteran Labour politician who was by far the most fervent and articulated opponent of the political EU system, continually pointing out how undemocratic the EU is. So with all due respect to you I think I will go with those who have the most knowledge of this corrupt organisation and not someone who benefitted from the gravy train.

But most of that is just bullshit by politicians looking/hoping to be on the 'right' side after the vote.

I trust politicians almost as much as I trust known liars.

Nigel Farage doesn't like the EU...WOW! The democratic deficit in the EU is in part caused by clowns like Farage who virtually never turn up to meetings of the parliament that pays them and, you will remember, has so far signally failed to obtain a seat in the British Parliament; the one he apparently wants to claw back sovereignty for!

Gravy train? Well, Farage certainly has his snout so deep in the trough he can't see daylight, but me, I don't think so. I was simply employed by a commercial consulting company to advise the EU and to do some database work for them. If I hadn't been working there I would have working for a bank or some other commercial organization as indeed I was before I went to the EU. My only qualification is that I know something of the internal workings of that organization, much more than most of the people commenting on this thread I would hazard to guess.

And that's pretty much what I said - they are only interested in furthering their own interests in this 'debate'. Except there is no debate, its just at everything vested interests have to say.

Which only aggravates those of us who are looking for the 'right' decision.

But there is no 'right' decision - the EU is good when it comes to workers' rights etc., but also v corrupt and wasteful of the money paid into the EU.

[Mosha]

Trump backs Bexit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36219612

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[paulbj2]

There's another bit of mis-information that has been circulating in this discussion. When British nationals get medical treatment in France, Spain or other EU countries, it's paid for by the British government. This is true ONLY if the British nationals in question are resident in the UK and have a UK EU medical card.

If, like me, they are are permanent residents of the EU country in question then the burden of their medical care falls on the state where they are resident and is NOT reimbursed by the UK government. Different states have different arrangements, in my case I pay around 25 Euros/month to the Luxembourg state, out of my pension for contribution to the Luxembourg equivalent of the NHS (I used to pay a great deal more than that when I was working as it a percentage of earnings). I believe in France, if you are over retiring age, you are entitled to medical care without making contributions. The situation in Spain may be similar to France.

In summary, if there are 800,000 British retirees legally resident in Spain then yes, it will be costing the Spanish government a fortune to treat them and the don't get a penny back from the UK.

Whilst resident in Luxembourg but visiting the UK on holiday, I needed to see a doctor as I injured myself. I explained that I was a Luxembourg resident and proffered my Luxembourg medical insurance card. The receptionist said she didn't need it and that she would take my word for it. The NHS could have clawed back the money for my consultation from the the Luxembourg authorities but they couldn't be bothered! Great eh!

[dick dasterdly]

There's another bit of mis-information that has been circulating in this discussion. When British nationals get medical treatment in France, Spain or other EU countries, it's paid for by the British government. This is true ONLY if the British nationals in question are resident in the UK and have a UK EU medical card.

If, like me, they are are permanent residents of the EU country in question then the burden of their medical care falls on the state where they are resident and is NOT reimbursed by the UK government. Different states have different arrangements, in my case I pay around 25 Euros/month to the Luxembourg state, out of my pension for contribution to the Luxembourg equivalent of the NHS (I used to pay a great deal more than that when I was working as it a percentage of earnings). I believe in France, if you are over retiring age, you are entitled to medical care without making contributions. The situation in Spain may be similar to France.

In summary, if there are 800,000 British retirees legally resident in Spain then yes, it will be costing the Spanish government a fortune to treat them and the don't get a penny back from the UK.

Whilst resident in Luxembourg but visiting the UK on holiday, I needed to see a doctor as I injured myself. I explained that I was a Luxembourg resident and proffered my Luxembourg medical insurance card. The receptionist said she didn't need it and that she would take my word for it. The NHS could have clawed back the money for my consultation from the the Luxembourg authorities but they couldn't be bothered! Great eh!

Ignore that poster. He's just pissed off with Brits living in Spain and couldn't give a flying fig that the UK pays for all hospital treatment (assuming the Brit has filled in whatever forms necessary to activate EU medical care).

Edited May 6, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[paulbj2]

Trump backs Bexit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36219612

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

That's another reason to vote to stay in then!

[Johnyo]

There's another bit of mis-information that has been circulating in this discussion. When British nationals get medical treatment in France, Spain or other EU countries, it's paid for by the British government. This is true ONLY if the British nationals in question are resident in the UK and have a UK EU medical card.

If, like me, they are are permanent residents of the EU country in question then the burden of their medical care falls on the state where they are resident and is NOT reimbursed by the UK government. Different states have different arrangements, in my case I pay around 25 Euros/month to the Luxembourg state, out of my pension for contribution to the Luxembourg equivalent of the NHS (I used to pay a great deal more than that when I was working as it a percentage of earnings). I believe in France, if you are over retiring age, you are entitled to medical care without making contributions. The situation in Spain may be similar to France.

In summary, if there are 800,000 British retirees legally resident in Spain then yes, it will be costing the Spanish government a fortune to treat them and the don't get a penny back from the UK.

Whilst resident in Luxembourg but visiting the UK on holiday, I needed to see a doctor as I injured myself. I explained that I was a Luxembourg resident and proffered my Luxembourg medical insurance card. The receptionist said she didn't need it and that she would take my word for it. The NHS could have clawed back the money for my consultation from the the Luxembourg authorities but they couldn't be bothered! Great eh!

Ignore that poster. He's just pissed off with Brits living in Spain and couldn't give a flying fig that the UK pays for all hospital treatment (assuming the Brit has filled in whatever forms necessary to activate EU medical care).

He is not pissed off I am as I have experienced the lack of integration of these ex pats. Spain should implement language tests and make sure these brits are financial secure and with comprehensive health insurance before allowing them to set foot in our country and for the ones living there already unless they own property throw them out unless they meet the criteria. Before the EU only rich Brits moved to Spain nowadays it's mostly cheap Charlies.

[paulbj2]

There's another bit of mis-information that has been circulating in this discussion. When British nationals get medical treatment in France, Spain or other EU countries, it's paid for by the British government. This is true ONLY if the British nationals in question are resident in the UK and have a UK EU medical card.

If, like me, they are are permanent residents of the EU country in question then the burden of their medical care falls on the state where they are resident and is NOT reimbursed by the UK government. Different states have different arrangements, in my case I pay around 25 Euros/month to the Luxembourg state, out of my pension for contribution to the Luxembourg equivalent of the NHS (I used to pay a great deal more than that when I was working as it a percentage of earnings). I believe in France, if you are over retiring age, you are entitled to medical care without making contributions. The situation in Spain may be similar to France.

In summary, if there are 800,000 British retirees legally resident in Spain then yes, it will be costing the Spanish government a fortune to treat them and the don't get a penny back from the UK.

Whilst resident in Luxembourg but visiting the UK on holiday, I needed to see a doctor as I injured myself. I explained that I was a Luxembourg resident and proffered my Luxembourg medical insurance card. The receptionist said she didn't need it and that she would take my word for it. The NHS could have clawed back the money for my consultation from the the Luxembourg authorities but they couldn't be bothered! Great eh!

Ignore that poster. He's just pissed off with Brits living in Spain and couldn't give a flying fig that the UK pays for all hospital treatment (assuming the Brit has filled in whatever forms necessary to activate EU medical care).

Try reading what I wrote:

The UK only pays for people who are resident in the UK not people who are permanently resident elsewhere in the EU. It is not a matter of nationality its a matter of permanent residence! The UK does not pay for any treatment for me, Luxembourg pays for my treatment; am I British yes, does Britain pay one penny piece for me...NO! Why because I have not been a resident of the UK since the 1990s.

I don't know where anyone gets the idea that Britain pays for Brit's medical care ad infinitum. It doesn't work like that!

As a matter of interest, unlike the NHS, Luxembourg covers medical care anywhere in the world so when I fell ill here on a previous visit, the Luxembourg version of the NHS paid my medical bills.

[dick dasterdly]

There's another bit of mis-information that has been circulating in this discussion. When British nationals get medical treatment in France, Spain or other EU countries, it's paid for by the British government. This is true ONLY if the British nationals in question are resident in the UK and have a UK EU medical card.

If, like me, they are are permanent residents of the EU country in question then the burden of their medical care falls on the state where they are resident and is NOT reimbursed by the UK government. Different states have different arrangements, in my case I pay around 25 Euros/month to the Luxembourg state, out of my pension for contribution to the Luxembourg equivalent of the NHS (I used to pay a great deal more than that when I was working as it a percentage of earnings). I believe in France, if you are over retiring age, you are entitled to medical care without making contributions. The situation in Spain may be similar to France.

In summary, if there are 800,000 British retirees legally resident in Spain then yes, it will be costing the Spanish government a fortune to treat them and the don't get a penny back from the UK.

Whilst resident in Luxembourg but visiting the UK on holiday, I needed to see a doctor as I injured myself. I explained that I was a Luxembourg resident and proffered my Luxembourg medical insurance card. The receptionist said she didn't need it and that she would take my word for it. The NHS could have clawed back the money for my consultation from the the Luxembourg authorities but they couldn't be bothered! Great eh!

Ignore that poster. He's just pissed off with Brits living in Spain and couldn't give a flying fig that the UK pays for all hospital treatment (assuming the Brit has filled in whatever forms necessary to activate EU medical care).

He is not pissed off I am as I have experienced the lack of integration of these ex pats. Spain should implement language tests and make sure these brits are financial secure and with comprehensive health insurance before allowing them to set foot in our country and for the ones living there already unless they own property throw them out unless they meet the criteria. Before the EU only rich Brits moved to Spain nowadays it's mostly cheap Charlies.

And you are that poster ...

[paulbj2]

http:/Blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/4/live-from-the-London -palladium-the-spectators-brexit-debate/

paulpj2

As we all know this referendum is not only about immigration, but also the effect it would have on the UK economy, the future existence of the U.K. itself and the state of democracy in the U.K.

Well in the recent debate in the UK we had Nigel Farage the experienced leader of the largest UK party in the European Parliament describing the EU as being undemocratic,no surprise there then. Dan Hannan leaders of the Conservatives in the EP also stating, that with his experience in Brussels,or is it Strasberg this week, he had to agree with NF. Theses two were then joined by Kate Hoey,a veteran Labour politician who was by far the most fervent and articulated opponent of the political EU system, continually pointing out how undemocratic the EU is. So with all due respect to you I think I will go with those who have the most knowledge of this corrupt organisation and not someone who benefitted from the gravy train.

But most of that is just bullshit by politicians looking/hoping to be on the 'right' side after the vote.

I trust politicians almost as much as I trust known liars.

Nigel Farage doesn't like the EU...WOW! The democratic deficit in the EU is in part caused by clowns like Farage who virtually never turn up to meetings of the parliament that pays them and, you will remember, has so far signally failed to obtain a seat in the British Parliament; the one he apparently wants to claw back sovereignty for!

Gravy train? Well, Farage certainly has his snout so deep in the trough he can't see daylight, but me, I don't think so. I was simply employed by a commercial consulting company to advise the EU and to do some database work for them. If I hadn't been working there I would have working for a bank or some other commercial organization as indeed I was before I went to the EU. My only qualification is that I know something of the internal workings of that organization, much more than most of the people commenting on this thread I would hazard to guess.

And that's pretty much what I said - they are only interested in furthering their own interests in this 'debate'. Except there is no debate, its just at everything vested interests have to say.

Which only aggravates those of us who are looking for the 'right' decision.

But there is no 'right' decision - the EU is good when it comes to workers' rights etc., but also v corrupt and wasteful of the money paid into the EU.

I don't see myself as having a vested interest but I do have some experience of the internal workings of the EU that most people won't have.

I consider myself to be privileged to have been part of the "EU" generation (we joined when I was 23). It gave me the opportunity, as of right, to go live in the four EU countries where I have lived and worked and I am extremely grateful to the EU for giving me the opportunity to enrich my life in that way. Without the "free movement of labour" provisions, I doubt if I would have been able to do it and my life would certainly have been the poorer for that. I'm now retired and my concern therefore is for coming generations; will they have the same opportunities as I had if we leave the EU. I believe that the answer is "no", they won't. Will they have a vital and thriving economy with plenty of job opportunities in an isolated Britain, no, I don't think they will.

Does the EU have problems, yes of course it does! Does the British civil service have problems, yes it most certainly does (somewhere around 40% of their major IT projects are in danger of catastrophic failure). Does the NHS have problems, yes it most certainly does. Does almost any very large organisation or entrerprise that you care to name have problems, yes it does!

Based on my experience inside the EU civil service, it is no worse than any of the other huge organisations I have worked for in the past and it is a great deal better than some!

Yes there is some corruption, I saw some first hand! Is there any corruption in the British government, most certainly! Any large organisation where is money swilling round in quantity will have some level of corruption (depending of course how you define corruption). Is accepting a very expensive lunch from a lobbyist corruption; in my view yes. In which case just about every MP in the House of Commons is guilty and most of the House of Lords.

From what I can see, most people in this discussion have made up their minds and will defend their position to the death so I don't think there is any great likelihood of swaying anyone one way or another. I do find it irritation that people talk such utter twaddle but there you go.

[Grouse]

Trump backs Bexit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36219612

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

And I'll bet a majority of Brexiteers back Trump. You know why......

[Grouse]

http:/Blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/4/live-from-the-London -palladium-the-spectators-brexit-debate/

paulpj2


As we all know this referendum is not only about immigration, but also the effect it would have on the UK economy, the future existence of the U.K. itself and the state of democracy in the U.K.
Well in the recent debate in the UK we had Nigel Farage the experienced leader of the largest UK party in the European Parliament describing the EU as being undemocratic,no surprise there then. Dan Hannan leaders of the Conservatives in the EP also stating, that with his experience in Brussels,or is it Strasberg this week, he had to agree with NF. Theses two were then joined by Kate Hoey,a veteran Labour politician who was by far the most fervent and articulated opponent of the political EU system, continually pointing out how undemocratic the EU is. So with all due respect to you I think I will go with those who have the most knowledge of this corrupt organisation and not someone who benefitted from the gravy train.

But most of that is just bullshit by politicians looking/hoping to be on the 'right' side after the vote.

I trust politicians almost as much as I trust known liars.

Nigel Farage doesn't like the EU...WOW! The democratic deficit in the EU is in part caused by clowns like Farage who virtually never turn up to meetings of the parliament that pays them and, you will remember, has so far signally failed to obtain a seat in the British Parliament; the one he apparently wants to claw back sovereignty for!

Gravy train? Well, Farage certainly has his snout so deep in the trough he can't see daylight, but me, I don't think so. I was simply employed by a commercial consulting company to advise the EU and to do some database work for them. If I hadn't been working there I would have working for a bank or some other commercial organization as indeed I was before I went to the EU. My only qualification is that I know something of the internal workings of that organization, much more than most of the people commenting on this thread I would hazard to guess.

And that's pretty much what I said - they are only interested in furthering their own interests in this 'debate'. Except there is no debate, its just at everything vested interests have to say.

Which only aggravates those of us who are looking for the 'right' decision.

But there is no 'right' decision - the EU is good when it comes to workers' rights etc., but also v corrupt and wasteful of the money paid into the EU.

I don't see myself as having a vested interest but I do have some experience of the internal workings of the EU that most people won't have.

I consider myself to be privileged to have been part of the "EU" generation (we joined when I was 23). It gave me the opportunity, as of right, to go live in the four EU countries where I have lived and worked and I am extremely grateful to the EU for giving me the opportunity to enrich my life in that way. Without the "free movement of labour" provisions, I doubt if I would have been able to do it and my life would certainly have been the poorer for that. I'm now retired and my concern therefore is for coming generations; will they have the same opportunities as I had if we leave the EU. I believe that the answer is "no", they won't. Will they have a vital and thriving economy with plenty of job opportunities in an isolated Britain, no, I don't think they will.

Does the EU have problems, yes of course it does! Does the British civil service have problems, yes it most certainly does (somewhere around 40% of their major IT projects are in danger of catastrophic failure). Does the NHS have problems, yes it most certainly does. Does almost any very large organisation or entrerprise that you care to name have problems, yes it does!

Based on my experience inside the EU civil service, it is no worse than any of the other huge organisations I have worked for in the past and it is a great deal better than some!

Yes there is some corruption, I saw some first hand! Is there any corruption in the British government, most certainly! Any large organisation where is money swilling round in quantity will have some level of corruption (depending of course how you define corruption). Is accepting a very expensive lunch from a lobbyist corruption; in my view yes. In which case just about every MP in the House of Commons is guilty and most of the House of Lords.

From what I can see, most people in this discussion have made up their minds and will defend their position to the death so I don't think there is any great likelihood of swaying anyone one way or another. I do find it irritation that people talk such utter twaddle but there you go.

I agree, but your intelligent explanations have been very illuminating and tie in with my own experiences of living and working in Europe which I also consider a privilege.

I recall a pub outing from the Derbyshire village where I lived then, to Hockenheim one year. I don't need to explain the prevailing attitudes. Well, I have never seen such a reversal of views based on actual experience. I put a great deal of negativity down to a combination of lack of travel and inadequate knowledge generally.

They didn't like Saumagen though.....

[Linzz]

http:/Blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/4/live-from-the-London -palladium-the-spectators-brexit-debate/

paulpj2

As we all know this referendum is not only about immigration, but also the effect it would have on the UK economy, the future existence of the U.K. itself and the state of democracy in the U.K.

Well in the recent debate in the UK we had Nigel Farage the experienced leader of the largest UK party in the European Parliament describing the EU as being undemocratic,no surprise there then. Dan Hannan leaders of the Conservatives in the EP also stating, that with his experience in Brussels,or is it Strasberg this week, he had to agree with NF. Theses two were then joined by Kate Hoey,a veteran Labour politician who was by far the most fervent and articulated opponent of the political EU system, continually pointing out how undemocratic the EU is. So with all due respect to you I think I will go with those who have the most knowledge of this corrupt organisation and not someone who benefitted from the gravy train.

But most of that is just bullshit by politicians looking/hoping to be on the 'right' side after the vote.

I trust politicians almost as much as I trust known liars.

Nigel Farage doesn't like the EU...WOW, now that IS a revelation! The democratic deficit in the EU is in part caused by clowns like Farage who virtually never turn up to meetings of the parliament that pays them and, you will remember, has so far signally failed to obtain a seat in the British Parliament; the one he apparently wants to claw back sovereignty for!

Gravy train? Well, Farage certainly has his snout so deep in the trough he can't see daylight, but me, I don't think so. I was simply employed by a commercial consulting company to advise the EU and to do some database work for them. If I hadn't been working there I would have working for a bank or some other commercial organization as indeed I was before I went to the EU. My only qualification is that I know something of the internal workings of that organization, much more than most of the people commenting on this thread I would hazard to guess.

Oh well time to do a TVFexit. With so much self recommendation everybody should cease contributing.

[Johnyo]

There's another bit of mis-information that has been circulating in this discussion. When British nationals get medical treatment in France, Spain or other EU countries, it's paid for by the British government. This is true ONLY if the British nationals in question are resident in the UK and have a UK EU medical card.

If, like me, they are are permanent residents of the EU country in question then the burden of their medical care falls on the state where they are resident and is NOT reimbursed by the UK government. Different states have different arrangements, in my case I pay around 25 Euros/month to the Luxembourg state, out of my pension for contribution to the Luxembourg equivalent of the NHS (I used to pay a great deal more than that when I was working as it a percentage of earnings). I believe in France, if you are over retiring age, you are entitled to medical care without making contributions. The situation in Spain may be similar to France.

In summary, if there are 800,000 British retirees legally resident in Spain then yes, it will be costing the Spanish government a fortune to treat them and the don't get a penny back from the UK.

Whilst resident in Luxembourg but visiting the UK on holiday, I needed to see a doctor as I injured myself. I explained that I was a Luxembourg resident and proffered my Luxembourg medical insurance card. The receptionist said she didn't need it and that she would take my word for it. The NHS could have clawed back the money for my consultation from the the Luxembourg authorities but they couldn't be bothered! Great eh!

Ignore that poster. He's just pissed off with Brits living in Spain and couldn't give a flying fig that the UK pays for all hospital treatment (assuming the Brit has filled in whatever forms necessary to activate EU medical care).

He is not pissed off I am as I have experienced the lack of integration of these ex pats. Spain should implement language tests and make sure these brits are financial secure and with comprehensive health insurance before allowing them to set foot in our country and for the ones living there already unless they own property throw them out unless they meet the criteria. Before the EU only rich Brits moved to Spain nowadays it's mostly cheap Charlies.

And you are that poster ...

Yes the poster that wants Spain to have control of its borders. Isn't that what you want for Britain?

[nontabury]

http:/Blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/4/live-from-the-London -palladium-the-spectators-brexit-debate/

paulpj2

As we all know this referendum is not only about immigration, but also the effect it would have on the UK economy, the future existence of the U.K. itself and the state of democracy in the U.K.

Well in the recent debate in the UK we had Nigel Farage the experienced leader of the largest UK party in the European Parliament describing the EU as being undemocratic,no surprise there then. Dan Hannan leaders of the Conservatives in the EP also stating, that with his experience in Brussels,or is it Strasberg this week, he had to agree with NF. Theses two were then joined by Kate Hoey,a veteran Labour politician who was by far the most fervent and articulated opponent of the political EU system, continually pointing out how undemocratic the EU is. So with all due respect to you I think I will go with those who have the most knowledge of this corrupt organisation and not someone who benefitted from the gravy train.

But most of that is just bullshit by politicians looking/hoping to be on the 'right' side after the vote.

I trust politicians almost as much as I trust known liars.

Nigel Farage doesn't like the EU...WOW, now that IS a revelation! The democratic deficit in the EU is in part caused by clowns like Farage who virtually never turn up to meetings of the parliament that pays them and, you will remember, has so far signally failed to obtain a seat in the British Parliament; the one he apparently wants to claw back sovereignty for!

Gravy train? Well, Farage certainly has his snout so deep in the trough he can't see daylight, but me, I don't think so. I was simply employed by a commercial consulting company to advise the EU and to do some database work for them. If I hadn't been working there I would have working for a bank or some other commercial organization as indeed I was before I went to the EU. My only qualification is that I know something of the internal workings of that organization, much more than most of the people commenting on this thread I would hazard to guess.

So you basically had a nice cushy number as a lower grade EU bureaucrat. During your stint as a consultant to the EU did you ever recommend that your job should be made redundant? I ask this question as this is what Nigel Farage and Dan Hannan have tried to achieve, during the 17yrs that they have represented the UK electorate in Brussels and Strasburgh. They may not always attend the farce of a European Parliament,so what! They do though attend when it's in the interest of their electorate,exactly the same as the 56 SNP members who appear at Westminster,even though they again want to break Scotland's ties with the rest of the U.K.

Regarding your remark re NF failed attempt to get voted into parliament, UKIP received nearly 4million votes at the 2015 election thus gaining 1seat, while the SNP received 1.5 million represented by 56 M.P 's,the Liberals received

2.5 million, gaining 8 seats. All very democratic of course.

Edited May 6, 2016 by nontabury

[Scott]

A post with the response inside the quote has been removed. Please be careful to put your response to a quote outside the quoted text.