Why you shouldn't fear violence in Thailand

[Tomtomtom69]

It can be a dangerous world where ever you maybe. You would be a fool to think Thailand is any different!

It's number one for deaths of Australians and UK abroad ....that's different in extent of dangerous.

Yes, but you have to break it down by category. It's the most dangerous because it just so happens the majority of Aussie and UK deaths occur due to road accidents. Thailand is after all the country with the second highest per capita road toll in the world. These mainly young Aussies and Brits hire scooters with little to no experience, don't wear safety helmets, take a fall then lose their lives. Or they get intoxicated and drive into the back of a truck. Unfortunately a couple might even end up being victims of bus crashes and the like. There's probably half of your deaths.

Then you have quite a few suicides, usually by taking a tumble off a balcony, but that tends to affect older expats and are typically a result of problems with Thai girlfriends or wives. In a couple of isolated cases that took place more recently, one elderly guy even committed suicide by shooting himself as he was suffering from cancer treatment, while his friend did so about a year or so earlier.

Risk taking while taking part in activities they would probably not even consider doing at home, like getting wasted and then going out for a swim at the beach late at night leading to drowning, leaving their drinks unattended while in a bar, taking drugs, going on sub-standard amusement park rides or zip lining (flying fox) etc. also results in a few deaths here and there.

Natural deaths unfortunately also occur, that's the nature of life.

Finally, the last and smallest category is murder. Only a tiny handful of tourists would be unlucky enough to be murdered here.

So as you can tell, while Thailand can be dangerous, it's certainly hardly because everyone's being killed left right and centre. Rather, it's more of a safety issue - poor driving standards and law enforcement, poor tourist facility safety standards. Private matters leading to one's suicide and natural deaths can't be counted as extraordinary even if there may be a somewhat higher incidence of suicides in Thailand than in our western countries. But then again, Japan also has a much higher incidence of suicide compared to western countries. What does that tell you? To me, it's different lifestyles vs. cultural differences.

[AleG]

I was walking around in a big crowd just the other day,i bumped into some body and it was pretty hard.

The Thai man looked back at me with anger in his face,i said sorry to him in Thai and smiled.

He said mai pen rai and we each went our way.

If i would have said "what the <deleted> are you looking at "when he turned around things probably would have turned out differently.

When you live here you will have to accept that Thailand is going to change you,not the other way around.

Going with the customs of the country has nothing to do with being a pussy.Some people who say they would react with more violence do not realize they are exactly the same as the people they are accusing of being violent.

When you start comparing news paper headlines from other places in the world you will see that there is unnessecary violence every where on this planet.

Great post, jvs, full of that highly uncommon thing called common sense.

I don't know if you read Rambo's comment a few posts before yours (#67 by Just1Voice) but it's edifying ... a sort of nemesis to your own view.

I do feel sorry for the British family in Hua Hin, and who wouldn't, but I watched the footage carefully and my first thought was ... uh oh, the post colonial attitude is getting Westerners into big trouble again ...

It's a fact that the first physical violence was administered by the tourists. The rest was reaction and escalation 'amok' style. Amok, a Malay word by the way, which originally describes what happens when an Asian person crosses the line of self-restraint. Of course, nothing can justify the beastly rage shown by the Thai guys afterwards, when those poor tourists suddenly realized that they were not back home.

Back home, if an old lady slaps a lad in the face, the chances of his reacting with extreme violence are thin, because the cultural background is totally different. Not better or worse. Different. Here the script runs on different mechanisms. It's all about the line. And about losing face being the main trigger for crossing that line. Again, it doesn't make these scum right. It just points out that visitors or expats must come to realize that they are not on home ground, and the fact is, most of them don't. I learned my lesson in Pattaya some years ago, in a very violent way (I shot a driver an angry look and almost lost my life for it), and according to many posts here, I'm not the only one. Here's the link to my experience with road rage Thai style :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/735264-nightmare-in-pattaya/

Westerners here, be they expats or tourists, bring with them a massive baggage of attitude, of which they're not even aware, most of the time, and which causes them to behave offensively to locals. Let's face it, it's near impossible for 'us Westerners' not to think of ourselves as superior, for all kinds of historical and sociological reasons, and it's rather comical to see how shocked we are when we realize that Thai (and Chinese, and Japanese, and all Asian) peoples also consider themselves thus.

This feeling of white superiority is all over Thai Visa Forum, in all kinds of ways that range from the subtle to the outrageous. When it's vented on the Forum, it's inconsequential. When it comes out in a crowd where almost everyone is drunk and in a context of growing resentment against white people, then ... sh*t happens.

I remember asking a Chinese guy in Europe, many years ago, why it was that Chinese people thought themselves to be a superior race. My question obviously surprised him very much and he replied : "I don't understand what you mean. We do not consider ourselves superior, we are superior'.

There and then, I realized that we do have one important thing in common with the Chinese ...

As the advice goes "At some point you need to realize that the common denominator in all your failed relationships is you".

There's a distinct smell of bigotry on most of the posts disparaging the article and its content, assuming the people doing so read past the headline; post after post reeking of racism ("I would say 80% of Thai men have some kind of mental disorder", "a race that doesn't care about what they do", "Thais are largely not respectful of us outside of money considerations. Nor are they our equal in reasoning or worldly affairs. The ones that claim to be are usually caught up in insidious elitism and repugnant", and the like.

Obviously it doesn't occur to those people how their prejudice shapes their perception and the reactions they get from Thai people, if you approach anyone, anywhere, with that sort of attitude you will be resented.

The problem is that sort of mentality is self fulfilling, bigotry begets hostility which validates the bigot's worldview.

[farang95]

honestly..... i never fear for my life ever in thailand... i never saw crime are dangerous altercation so i guess you should't too ..but life is unexpected .....the future in unknown....

behave good...do good..and protect yourself all the time ..be vigilant..... and you will be fine....i wish it for all of you .....this is the only purpose of the media...to fear people..Your own people....

recently ....so many bad thing happened ....so you gotta be more vigilant.... but ..... i hope.... you all be safe !

CHOK DEE

[Stradavarius37]

Good that he feels so safe walking around the street late at night. That is, until it happens to him.. Then his tune will change. Personally, my experience has shown that in most cases a foreigner can smile his way out of most tense situations. I say most because there are times when Thai men simply want to exert some violence. Case in point: I was with my Thai family talking about the water supply using my wife to translate to her father. Out of the blue, the father picked up a large knife used for cutting bananas of the tree and he came at me with blood in his eyes. It was intervened only by my wife and her mother who jumped in front of him. As it turned out, he got angry simply because he didn't like that a foreigner was telling him a more sufficient and modern way to supply water to the house and thought that I should be doing it his way regardless. It didn't matter if I was in the right about it. He was losing face because I would not back down and because he was looking like he was ignorant about this to his family.

If a Thai is losing face by you or anyone. Run! Violence is the only thing they seem to understand.. Their is no compromise with them and as a foreigner, you are always going to be wrong. Even when you are right.

"Out of the blue"? I smell bullsh*t...

[streetsweeper]

Does this modern day notion of "losing face" not smack of something else?

ie: lack of education, lack of interpersonal skills, lack of worldliness, lack of coping skills, lack of self-confidence etc;

it comes at price doesn't it?

[villagefarang]

I have forty years in Thailand without a single violent encounter. Granted things could have changed a bit since we moved from Bangkok to Chiang Rai ten years ago but for more than twenty years I was out almost every night, even during the curfew years. Perhaps because I don’t drink I was able to avoid trouble more easily.

I agree you can’t compare the suburbs and middle-class environments of western society with the low-class slum environments some farangs choose to live in here in Thailand.

[cpofc]

There were a few reasons I returned to the LOS, one of them being the safety aspect for me. The lack of violence. Not mention social acceptance and tolerance. hehe Blokes my age aren't even allowed into nite-clubs where I come from! It is certainly no country for Old Men.

I have been visiting and living here a long time too. Never had a problem.

I can't think of anywhere in metropolitan Bangkok that I would deliberately avoid, at any hour of the day or night, for fear of being the victim of an act of random and gratuitous violence.

hehe last time I went home, first day, I walked through the front doors of my Local Ex Serviceman's Club into a full on punch up in the foyer! The are many places in Melbourne I would not dare to set foot in at any hour of the night or day.

Where I come from, Melbourne, Australia is often voted 'The World's Most Liveable City', read below an article just posted tonight in the Melbourne Herald Sun and tell me what you reckon. I think I made a good choice myself.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/apex-gang-members-escape-conviction-after-melbourne-home-invasion/news-story/3b36ee2298015953d391c389e836ce9e?from=google_rss&google_editors_picks=true

[phoenixdoglover]

Let's look at two things:

1) The country of origin for tourists in Thailand (2012, which means a little out of date)

2) As a proxy for violence, the intentional murder rate in those countries and in Thailand (UN data ca. 2010-2013)

In order of tourist arrivals, here are the country murder rates (per 100,000 population)

China 0.8

Malaysia 2.3

Japan 0.3

Russia 9.0

Korea 0.8

India 3.5

Australia 1.1

Laos 5.9

UK 1.0

Singapore 0.2

USA 3.8

Germany 0.7

Vietnam 3.3

France 1.2

Thailand 5.0

What I infer from this is: unless you come from Russia or Laos, you would be wise to perceive Thailand as a more violent place.

[FritsSikkink]

Had an interesting conversation with the children in France. How is it? What is the difference between France and Thailand. etc.etc. What's the main difference? Answer: It is surprisingly peaceful. The Thai kids just picked fights all the time for no reason and took it through to fisticuffs. Does not happen here!!

dream on

[FritsSikkink]

Last year, In a big International School whose name starts by I and finishes by B, young children -under 10- were molested by Thai male staff.

The all thing was hushed away and staffs were promptly sacked.

it was hushed away AND they were sacked? makeup your mind

[FritsSikkink]

- My 34 years old friend who is a financial Times journalist wife was punched by a taxi driver while she was holding a six months old baby. Her crime? Refusing to get off with her baby in the middle of nowhere just because the cabdriver had changed his mind and decided the journey was not worth it due to heavy traffic.

- I 45 years old lady was beaten up by an enraged Thai man, for walking into a private soi without my knowledge of the soi being private.

- I was kicked in the head by drunken neighbor for my dog fighting with his street dogs. His dogs having privatized the soi they attack any other dosg walking in- while I was savagely bitten by 2 of his dogs. Head injuries 4 Stitches.on the skull and legs scars still visible after 6 months

- I was assaulted by 2 Thai racist women walking in the street who punched me.in the arm.and back just because.

- I was attacked by my drunk neighbor and punched just because he was drunk or in a bad mood

So you can keep your warning thank you very much

'who is a financial times journalist wife' says a lot about you thinking that has any bearing.

you entered someones property, but didn't know it.

refused to get out of a taxi

getting beat up all the time by racists

been here since 1981, come in all sorts of areas and bars, nobody tried to hit me once. what is wrong with you?

[cumgranosalum]

Unfortunately it is human nature and a sign of poor thinking that people think that their personal experience is a reflection of society as a whole.

[Plutojames88]

Let's look at two things:

1) The country of origin for tourists in Thailand (2012, which means a little out of date)

2) As a proxy for violence, the intentional murder rate in those countries and in Thailand (UN data ca. 2010-2013)

In order of tourist arrivals, here are the country murder rates (per 100,000 population)

China 0.8

Malaysia 2.3

Japan 0.3

Russia 9.0

Korea 0.8

India 3.5

Australia 1.1

Laos 5.9

UK 1.0

Singapore 0.2

USA 3.8

Germany 0.7

Vietnam 3.3

France 1.2

Thailand 5.0

What I infer from this is: unless you come from Russia or Laos, you would be wise to perceive Thailand as a more violent place.

Yes your post supports data I am reading.

The death rates killed in van accidents and bikes are high .( number one)

But violence is also very prominent and can't be denied .

You get people who haven't experience violence preaching its virtues.

While I have over 25 years avoided it.

I was robbed at knife point and have seen countless acts.

Some very random .

People are entitled to try and support the military or Thailand or state what they might believe.

The stats just tell a different picture .

[chiang mai]

Let's look at two things:

1) The country of origin for tourists in Thailand (2012, which means a little out of date)

2) As a proxy for violence, the intentional murder rate in those countries and in Thailand (UN data ca. 2010-2013)

In order of tourist arrivals, here are the country murder rates (per 100,000 population)

China 0.8

Malaysia 2.3

Japan 0.3

Russia 9.0

Korea 0.8

India 3.5

Australia 1.1

Laos 5.9

UK 1.0

Singapore 0.2

USA 3.8

Germany 0.7

Vietnam 3.3

France 1.2

Thailand 5.0

What I infer from this is: unless you come from Russia or Laos, you would be wise to perceive Thailand as a more violent place.

I've heard it said that the 5% murder rate in Thailand is actually higher, but frankly the number, whatever it actually is, is largely irrelevant because the vast majority of them are Thai on Thai or Asian on Asian. If you look at the murder rate of UK citizens in Thailand it comes out at around 0.002% (900k tourist visits per year plus 50k resident expats - total deaths from ALL causes including RTA's and natural was circa 360 during 2014/2015). Officially there were about 5 murders of UK citizens during that year, even if you don't believe the official stats. and you want to double, triple, quadruple or whatever those numbers, you'll have great difficulty getting close to the UK levels: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35372940

I think the risk of violence is relative to the individual, their location, age and lifestyle. A resident expat for example is far more likely to be the victim of crime than a tourist: the former has links to extended families in Thailand, has visible assets (car/house) and may well own a business here, all things that are a potential source of conflict and crime. The tourist on the other hand flies in for two weeks, stays in hotels, eats in restaurants and probably never actually gets to know a single Thai to any meaningful degree, two weeks later they've gone home.

And the old age codger who lives in a semi rural setting and rarely ever sees a tourist, is less likely to encounter nefarious locals who frequent tourist areas, score one for the old bloke. So rather than hanging around the bars and/or engaging in risky behaviour, pruning orchids in the garden and in bed with a glass of milk by 9pm makes for a longer life in Thailand. Risk of crime and violence in Thailand? It's all relative to the individual and what you make it.

BTW I'm not going to respond to any posts on this subject because I've been there far too many times on this, I just wanted to try and add some perspective thus the usual detractors can feel to blast away safely.

[Plutojames88]

Let's look at two things:

1) The country of origin for tourists in Thailand (2012, which means a little out of date)

2) As a proxy for violence, the intentional murder rate in those countries and in Thailand (UN data ca. 2010-2013)

In order of tourist arrivals, here are the country murder rates (per 100,000 population)

China 0.8

Malaysia 2.3

Japan 0.3

Russia 9.0

Korea 0.8

India 3.5

Australia 1.1

Laos 5.9

UK 1.0

Singapore 0.2

USA 3.8

Germany 0.7

Vietnam 3.3

France 1.2

Thailand 5.0

What I infer from this is: unless you come from Russia or Laos, you would be wise to perceive Thailand as a more violent place.

I've heard it said that the 5% murder rate in Thailand is actually higher, but frankly the number, whatever it actually is, is largely irrelevant because the vast majority of them are Thai on Thai or Asian on Asian. If you look at the murder rate of UK citizens in Thailand it comes out at around 0.002% (900k tourist visits per year plus 50k resident expats - total deaths from ALL causes including RTA's and natural was circa 360 during 2014/2015). Officially there were about 5 murders of UK citizens during that year, even if you don't believe the official stats. and you want to double, triple, quadruple or whatever those numbers, you'll have great difficulty getting close to the UK levels: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35372940

I think the risk of violence is relative to the individual, their location, age and lifestyle. A resident expat for example is far more likely to be the victim of crime than a tourist: the former has links to extended families in Thailand, has visible assets (car/house) and may well own a business here, all things that are a potential source of conflict and crime. The tourist on the other hand flies in for two weeks, stays in hotels, eats in restaurants and probably never actually gets to know a single Thai to any meaningful degree, two weeks later they've gone home.

And the old age codger who lives in a semi rural setting and rarely ever sees a tourist, is less likely to encounter nefarious locals who frequent tourist areas, score one for the old bloke. So rather than hanging around the bars and/or engaging in risky behaviour, pruning orchids in the garden and in bed with a glass of milk by 9pm makes for a longer life in Thailand. Risk of crime and violence in Thailand? It's all relative to the individual and what you make it.

BTW I'm not going to respond to any posts on this subject because I've been there far too many times on this, I just wanted to try and add some perspective thus the usual detractors can feel to blast away safely.

To make matters crystal clear.

Stats I refer to are deaths in Thailand .

And those attributed to violence .

Injuries and assaults , insurance claims of robbery and hospital bills.

Westerners .....not Asians .

Thailand stats of TOURISTS leaving their homes and going to that nation for under a month show Thailand is very prominent in assaults .

Much more so than anywhere else regards numbers.

So we can dabble in who might be at more risk .

And indeed this seems true.

However don't dismiss the actual reality of tourists going there either.

I am not inventing this .

It's very easily verified .

Western tourists frequently are robbed and assaulted and sometimes raped , and / or murdered.

Sure happens everywhere .

But to pretend risks are small there is somewhat flying in the face of facts.

You can be at risk there .

And with their economy sinking and xenophobic government and rising robbery stats .

You need to exercise caution.

I will agree you most likely can be 95% sure a two week visit no harm will come to you or your family.

However , increasingly politic situation makes other destinations a wiser choice.

If not for safety assured reasons, insurance, and peace of mind.

Morally.

[Adventurer1]

I fear fellow Westerners more than locals here and elsewhere when I travel.

[Testacall]

I fear fellow Westerners more than locals here and elsewhere when I travel.

Really ...seriously

I suggest you change your user name Mr Adventurer1. Seems a bit of a stretch you are so very ADVENTUROUS zzzzzzzz Lol....have no fear

[MaxLee]

Had an interesting conversation with the children in France. How is it? What is the difference between France and Thailand. etc.etc. What's the main difference? Answer: It is surprisingly peaceful. The Thai kids just picked fights all the time for no reason and took it through to fisticuffs. Does not happen here!!

Except it does. Poorly integrated Muslim migrant children beat up native French children for no reason and attacks are increasing. French Jews don't feel safe anymore and are leaving the country for Israel and the USA.

Rioting in ghetto areas of Paris happens almost every night.

A French expat in Thailand told me recently how on edge he was last year when he took his Thai wife to France. He says he always carries a knife with him.

There are certainly plenty of violent Thai teenagers. However, before you assume Thailand is the only country with these problems you might want to ask some more French children preferably those in Paris or Marseille.

no-one is assuming Thailand is the only place with problems, but the problems of other countries in no way mitigates the situation in Thailand. THis is a thread about violence in Thailand and as a developing nation - as said earlier - it will increasingly have to face the kind of urban violence that developed countries do. however it is how WELL they manage to cope with it that is of concern.....untrained police and authorities in general that simply aren't educated enough to handle the root causes of these problems.

"it will increasingly have to face the kind of urban violence that developed countries do."

Umm...no. So what you are saying is to become developed, Thailand has to become more violent? Let me see here, how much urban violence is there in Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan or South Korea? Virtually none you say? Oh yeah that's right.

Then let's compare it to France, Belgium, the UK, Sweden, the USA. What's the difference? Oh yes that's right, apart from more racial heterogeneity in those countries there is also a problem of lawlessness in some areas. There are tons of no-go areas in all these countries (and many others).

As for Thailand, the problems are of a completely different nature and stem more from an education, law enforcement and corruption problem. If the country ever strictly applies the rule of law, imposes tough penalties for violent crime including crimes committed by youth and is able to greatly surpress corruption, particularly when it comes to influencing the outcome of criminal cases then crime will go down significantly. Of course, improving educational standards, re-inforcing family values, discouraging "alternative" lifestyles that break families apart, imposing tough penalties on drug trafficking and reducing consumption of alcohol, particularly amongst youth and other vulnerable groups will help in reducing the prospensity for crime to occur in the first place.

This may be a topic about Thailand, but I can't help but set the record straight on "Laolover's" slander of Thailand by making France out to be some kind of utopia, when I've heard French people tell me they're very worried about the future there. Maybe it was 50 years ago, but not anymore with all the middle eastern Muslim migration. France is going down the toilet fast and Thailand can learn nothing useful from that country. Thailand can however learn from more suitable role models full of hard working, law abiding citizens like China, Japan and South Korea.

The problem in Thailand, if you make somebody lose face, the majority of Thais take that so personal that they resolve into very extreme unlawful by all means vengeful measurements...

[ace]

The loss of face thing can turn events ugly.

The slap by the British woman over a drunk Thai mans face during their celebration period , can be a costly mistake.

I say this with full respect to the poor victim and make no justification for the thuggery .

But Thais watching clearly thought they got their just deserts.

In fact it could have more worse if many more joined in .

I have seen worse.

Thailand is a third wood country still developing .

A newspaper with grizzly photos reflects its stage of development.

Thais are not horrified like westerners at "" Real "" violence.

And are capable of committing it.

I almost married a Thai woman.

But was put off by what happened one evening in 2004.

We were being robbed at knife point .i had just taken 10,000 from an ATM machine on third road Pattaya at 2am.

A man armed with a sharp looking rope blade 8-9 inches long menacingly demanded the money.

He looked like a drug addicted angry son of a bitch so I handed it over.

But the woman who I was with had other ideas .

She smashed the man with a swing wild direct hit to his temple using a long neck of unopened Chang she was carrying from 7/11 .the guy dropped cold.

Banging his head on the footpath .

She then started trying to scratch his face to pieces .

And I had to stop her.

My policy is money aint important .

I nod yes at Thais .

Smile stay calm.

Remember it ain't Kansas

Sounds like a keeper. Did the Chang survive?

[mcfish]

just check out 30 shot dead today in Orlando and the gorgeous 22 year old pop singer shot dead and thats just in 24 hours plus hundreds or even thousands more !!!

http://www.9news.com.au/World/2016/06/12/17/15/Reports-of-shooting-at-venue-in-Orlando-Florida

USA is a shit hole compared to thailand

Edited June 12, 2016 by mcfish