kasikorn visa debit card...could be used easilly for fraud ?

[dirtycash]

i notice a few times i buy goods in thailand ion my kasikorn visa debit card, some shops just swipe it and thats it, other shops ask you for a signature but these signatures on strips can be easilly removed using brake fluid then re signed.

i have a substantial amount in this bank account so if i forgot my card from ATM which has happened a lot in past then if card fell into wrong hands then effectivelly

they could wipe my whole account out .

also another scenario if someone behind me in a queue seen my PIN and stole my card .

right or wrong ?

and if so would it be my fault or would thai bank re imburse ? as it uk but i wouldnt hold my breath.

[jonw8uk]

there is daily withdrawal limits with kasikorn.

you can change amounts for atm and purchases.

At the ATM or brabch you can enable SMS for any transaction on your account - useful

Yes if your card was stolen, people can spend your money - same with any card, anywhere

Yes if people managed to steal your card AND view your pin they could take your money from an ATM

Surely you would cancel the card as soon as you knew it was missing.

Take care of your cards, hide you PIN entry, look at the ATM before use, for anything odd looking around the card slot (skimming device)

Just saw on thai news that banks are starting to issue cards with a chip this month - hopefully chip and pin will become a thing here, rather than signing any old shit.

Friend of mine writes 'ask for ID' on the signature strip, might be a good idea

PS I dont think the bank would reimburse anything, so the best you can do is limit the damage

[Rob13]

Split your money between 2 accounts, and make sure one isn't connected to the ATM card

[richard_smith237]

There is an easy solution... Two accounts with the Same Bank.

The Main Account holds the majority of your money - No associated Card (keep the book in your safe).

The Second 'User Account' holds less money, which you can use an ATM / Debit Card.

Whenever you need more cash you can simply use your phone (or computer) and perform an online transfer.

[Pib]

If you lose you card, chipped or magnetic strip, a bad guy can usually go "purchase" stuff until he dies from exhaustion in using the card or you notice you have lost the card and cancel it.

Now if a PIN must be used to complete the purchase then unless the crook knows your PIN he can't complete the purchase. Rarely do Thai checkout clerks ask for identification or check for signature---very rarely. I know...the wife and I use our cards all the time for purchases....on the average several times daily here in Bangkok and nearby provinces.

And depending on how your "card-issuing" bank "chipped" card is setup it may not require a PIN for many purchase transactions because as long as the transaction rules stored in the chip and the rules accepted by the merchant's Point of Service (POS) machine (i.e., the machine they put the card in) agree on a transaction verification method to complete the transaction such as use of PIN only, use of Signature only, etc., the transaction can continue on. Thai merchants generally require Signature Only. So if your chipped card has an encoded rule to allow signature only also (no PIN required) and the merchant's POS machine only requires Signature then the transaction can continue.

Thai credit/debit cards seem to be setup for Signature only for purchases....U.S. cards are generally setup for Signature only "or" PIN only (the card is happy with either...up to the merchant what to use), but I think many European cards rely more on PIN entry for purchases. Depends on rules encoded within the card and how the merchant want to accomplish the transaction.

You will notice in Thailand you will rarely see any buyer entering PIN numbers to complete a purchase after handing the clerk their debit or credit card, or at least that has been my experience here in western Bangkok stores and Nakhon Pathom province stores (just west of Bangkok) where I do most of my card purchases After using my cards for over 7 years here in Bangkok I can remember only one time for sure, maybe two times, where I was standing in a store checkout line and person had to enter a PIN to complete the purchase with their card. The wife or I have never-ever had to enter a PIN to complete a purchase in Thailand...we use U.S. chipped/magnetic strip card or Thai debit cards.

Yeap, losing your debit or credit card can be like losing cash if the finder of the card goes on a purchase spree.

Having two Thai bank accounts, one "with" debit card access and one "without" debit card access, is a good way to help limit any potential losses and headaches from a loss card. I use this approach. I keep the bulk of my day-to-day living money in a Bangkok Bank account "without" a card issued against it and another account "with" an issued card. I keep the amount in the account with card at a relatively low amount and top it up as required from the other account using ibanking...only takes a few minute to top the account up...or take it down to zero if desired.

With Bangkok Bank debit cards just for example, you can set the purchase limit to a low as zero per day if desired and the cash withdrawal amount to as low as Bt50K per day if desired by calling the Bangkok Bank 1333 number and following the interactive voice instructions. And set the purchase and withdrawal limits to higher amounts the same way. So if you only use your debit card for cash withdrawals a person might want to set their Bangkok Bank Be1st debit card purchase limit to zero.

For example, below is a snapshot from the Bangkok Bank website regarding the purchase and withdrawal limits you can set with your Be1st chipped debit card...the limits are a little different with the Be1st non-chipped card. The purchase limit can be set to zero although the snapshot below does not mention it, but the interactive voice choices will offer that option. Can't speak to what purchases and cash withdrawal daily limits other Thai banks use with their debit cards but usually Thai banks have very similar polices.

[KittenKong]

Split your money between 2 accounts, and make sure one isn't connected to the ATM card

Very wise.

I now go one step further: I have one account with one Thai bank with very little money in it which comes with a debit card. I also use that account for paying my electricity bills etc, but all the rest of my Thai money is in completely different banks for which I have no debit card at all. As needed I transfer fairly small amounts from one bank to the other.

I do not trust Thai banks to reimburse me properly in case of fraudulent activity and I have friends who have lost fairly large amounts here (1MB+) due to Thai card fraud. Their bank was extremely unhelpful, even once the police and courts were involved.

For emergencies I also have two UK credit cards which are 100% guaranteed in case of any fraudulent use. And it's a guarantee that actually means something.

[AlQaholic]

In all my years in Thailand, only once have someone looked at the signature of my credit card (never use my debit for payments) and Never have anyone asked for any ID . That one time happened this year at Villa Market, the cashier looked at the card, noticed the signature was since long faded away and asked me to sign the card with a pen she provided. Never asked for my ID. all ok and now I have a credit card with a signature again for whoever wants to look at it.

On the other hand, nowadays with the CCTV all over the place kind of becomes obsolete with all that crap anyways right?

[Rob13]

Split your money between 2 accounts, and make sure one isn't connected to the ATM card

Very wise.

I now go one step further: I have one account with one Thai bank with very little money in it which comes with a debit card. I also use that account for paying my electricity bills etc, but all the rest of my Thai money is in completely different banks for which I have no debit card at all. As needed I transfer fairly small amounts from one bank to the other.

I do not trust Thai banks to reimburse me properly in case of fraudulent activity and I have friends who have lost fairly large amounts here (1MB+) due to Thai card fraud. Their bank was extremely unhelpful, even once the police and courts were involved.

For emergencies I also have two UK credit cards which are 100% guaranteed in case of any fraudulent use. And it's a guarantee that actually means something.

I left a card in the machine once a couple of years ago, someone got hold of it and drained the account. The following day I went to the bank. They gave me a printout of all the recent transactions on the card. I circled the ones I didn't make. The funds were restored no problems. Worst of it was the 300 baht for the new card. Much easier and than I expected.

[jacko45k]

I see 'ask for ID' mentioned up there, but I wonder if a card bearing the name John Smith or Angus McDonald being used by a Thai would even cause a shop worker to bat an eyelid!

[Mudcrab]

Split your money between 2 accounts, and make sure one isn't connected to the ATM card

Very wise.

I now go one step further: I have one account with one Thai bank with very little money in it which comes with a debit card. I also use that account for paying my electricity bills etc, but all the rest of my Thai money is in completely different banks for which I have no debit card at all. As needed I transfer fairly small amounts from one bank to the other.

I do not trust Thai banks to reimburse me properly in case of fraudulent activity and I have friends who have lost fairly large amounts here (1MB+) due to Thai card fraud. Their bank was extremely unhelpful, even once the police and courts were involved.

For emergencies I also have two UK credit cards which are 100% guaranteed in case of any fraudulent use. And it's a guarantee that actually means something.

I left a card in the machine once a couple of years ago, someone got hold of it and drained the account. The following day I went to the bank. They gave me a printout of all the recent transactions on the card. I circled the ones I didn't make. The funds were restored no problems. Worst of it was the 300 baht for the new card. Much easier and than I expected.

They knew your PIN?

Look a bit closer to home for the culprit!!

[Rob13]

PIN wasn't needed, the charges were for restaurants and hotels

[SGD]

I see 'ask for ID' mentioned up there, but I wonder if a card bearing the name John Smith or Angus McDonald being used by a Thai would even cause a shop worker to bat an eyelid!

And to prove that very point I have routinely signed "Donald Duck", "Santa Claus" etc. in the hope that it might once be challenged. Up country, in Pattaya and in Bangkok, it never has.

[hawker9000]

there is daily withdrawal limits with kasikorn.

you can change amounts for atm and purchases.

At the ATM or brabch you can enable SMS for any transaction on your account - useful

Yes if your card was stolen, people can spend your money - same with any card, anywhere

Yes if people managed to steal your card AND view your pin they could take your money from an ATM

Surely you would cancel the card as soon as you knew it was missing.

Take care of your cards, hide you PIN entry, look at the ATM before use, for anything odd looking around the card slot (skimming device)

Just saw on thai news that banks are starting to issue cards with a chip this month - hopefully chip and pin will become a thing here, rather than signing any old shit.

Friend of mine writes 'ask for ID' on the signature strip, might be a good idea

PS I dont think the bank would reimburse anything, so the best you can do is limit the damage

I hope they're more meticulous with the chip & pin cards in Thailand than they are back in the states. Even merchants who HAVE the chip-enabled readers don't require the chip-reader to be used. 'Never had one actually require its use yet. 'Not at all persuaded that the chip-readers themselves aren't just another step in the continuing cat&mouse game between the thieving scumsuckers and security providers anyway. Unfortunately, consumers have no choice but to be diligent in monitoring their accounts and credit records regularly, or risk nasty surprises.

If you can, my suggestion is that when the card provider makes the option available, disable the card (or zero the authorized amount per transaction, or make it a very low amount) except when you actually plan to use it (and when done, disable it again). Also, activate transaction alerts on your cell if that option is available (sometimes there's a small monthly fee for this). And perhaps keep everything except actual planned spending in a separate account with no card at all associated with it, and transfer money to the carded account only when you need to.

[Pattaya46]

I hope they're more meticulous with the chip & pin cards in Thailand than they are back in the states. Even merchants who HAVE the chip-enabled readers don't require the chip-reader to be used //

Probably because this system is still new in your country. In mine who uses it for tens of years, it's just mandatory and a reflex for everyone to type his PIN.

A few exceptions for amounts below 10 (like highway toll...) and for small payements made with no-contact cards.

[Bantex]

How hard would it be for a bank to get your photograph printed on the card as well as chip / pin and signature.

One bank in the UK offered this to customers a few years ago.

[KhaoNiaw]

How hard would it be for a bank to get your photograph printed on the card as well as chip / pin and signature.

One bank in the UK offered this to customers a few years ago.

I had a Kasikorn debit card with my photo on it a few years ago. But when I needed a replacement they didn't offer it any more.

[KittenKong]

I do not trust Thai banks to reimburse me properly in case of fraudulent activity and I have friends who have lost fairly large amounts here (1MB+) due to Thai card fraud. Their bank was extremely unhelpful, even once the police and courts were involved.

For emergencies I also have two UK credit cards which are 100% guaranteed in case of any fraudulent use. And it's a guarantee that actually means something.

I left a card in the machine once a couple of years ago, someone got hold of it and drained the account. The following day I went to the bank. They gave me a printout of all the recent transactions on the card. I circled the ones I didn't make. The funds were restored no problems. Worst of it was the 300 baht for the new card. Much easier and than I expected.

You were lucky. In fact you were very lucky.

I have no faith in my Thai banks to act like that.

[Pattaya46]

How hard would it be for a bank to get your photograph printed on the card

as well as chip / pin and signature.

Why make it difficult?

Far simpler to widespread the use of "PIN only" chip cards.

They have no name, no signature and of course no photo on it.

You have the card and the PIN: You can buy,

and the merchant knows he will be paid, so everyone is happy

[gt162]

Security features are only good as the user. Good common sense is needed. I know few expats got their accounts drained completely by their Mia Chows.

[dirtycash]

PIN wasn't needed, the charges were for restaurants and hotels

really ? but hotels allways ask for your passport so how can this be true ? did the cops come up with anything at all ? were the criminals thai or foreigner ?

[Henryford]

An even better solution is to never use cards. I pay for everything by cash in Thailand.

[mrfaroukh]

You are right I have noticed the same and they never ask for id card to show if the card actually belong to you. So if you have substantial amount in your account I advise you to open another account just to keep your money without any debit card and inform the bank to transfer x amount of money every month from that account to your other account that you are using daily and you have a debit card for it. This way in case you loose your card , your loss will reduce.

[Rob13]

An even better solution is to never use cards. I pay for everything by cash in Thailand.

Trade off with that is, lose your cash and it's gone forever, lose your card and it's protected.

[Pib]

An even better solution is to never use cards. I pay for everything by cash in Thailand.

Trade off with that is, lose your cash and it's gone forever, lose your card and it's protected.

Plus you are paying bank SWIFT/wire fees to bring money into Thailand and you are not earning cash back/reward points for card use.

Personally I use my credit and debit cards lot more than using cash...and pay off credit card bills in full every month.

[hawker9000]

An even better solution is to never use cards. I pay for everything by cash in Thailand.

Trade off with that is, lose your cash and it's gone forever, lose your card and it's protected.

Plus you are paying bank SWIFT/wire fees to bring money into Thailand and you are not earning cash back/reward points for card use.

Personally I use my credit and debit cards lot more than using cash...and pay off credit card bills in full every month.

There are fees on wiring money, but they're low (actually, just the 0.25% that Kasikorn charges on the foreign exchange in my case), and I consider the indiscriminate use of credit cards in Thailand risky (I pretty much just use them for hotel bills and air travel). I never use them for cash advances, but would know how to do it, minimizing the fees, if, say, I suddenly started having a problem with the wire transfers. I generally leave the cards locked up, and only carry cash enough for my daily needs. Esp. in Bangkok, I know firsthand that the risk of theft/pickpockets is very real, so I definitely avoid carrying the cards - as well as my passport - with me unless I actually expect to need to need them for something specific.

[Pib]

You don't have any Sending or Intermediary/Correspondent bank fees to include into the Thai bank 0.25% receiving fee? And if no fees, I sure hope you are not letting the Sending bank convert to baht when sending which means there is a several percent indirect fee there because of the lower exchange rate.

[hawker9000]

Correct. My transfers are free, except for the 0.25% Kasikorn charges on the receiving end (NOT well-documented, BTW). No sending or intermediary bank fees. The exchange rate is K-Bank's TT rate, updated several times a day and easily looked up online. Yes, better rates certainly exist. I could do a little better carrying the cash to Thailand and exchanging it at a Super Rich window for example. But not "several percent" better. The fraction of a percent is worth it to me not having to ferry large amounts of cash around only to have to store it in hotel room safes - which I used to do, actually.

[KittenKong]

Correct. My transfers are free, except for the 0.25% Kasikorn charges on the receiving end (NOT well-documented, BTW). No sending or intermediary bank fees. The exchange rate is K-Bank's TT rate, updated several times a day and easily looked up online. Yes, better rates certainly exist.

One of my UK banks doesnt charge any SWIFT or other sending fee either. I thought this so dubious when I read it that I called them and emailed them for confirmation, but it is completely true!

Worth noting that for larger amounts the rate applied by your receiving Thai bank is negotiable. So negotiate.

[Pib]

I would guess not incurring any SWIFT/wire fees on the Sending/Intermediary end (unless using the Sending bank's lower exchange rate) is not the norm. Good you have such banks.

[hawker9000]

I would guess not incurring any SWIFT/wire fees on the Sending/Intermediary end (unless using the Sending bank's lower exchange rate) is not the norm. Good you have such banks.

You're probably right about the majority of banks. I know my credit union would be charging a fee for doing it - a fixed fee on the order or $25 or 30 if I remember correctly.