The Infamous Dowry

[jadee]

My mum in law asked for 250000. I explained she was second hand and 34. Got her half price.

Second hand cost nothing...Mum has already been paid from first hand. Mum is happy you took her off the families hands....

My wife and I married 9 years ago, she had been married before and I did not pay a dowry. A long-time friend of mine gave me that advice with the blunt rational: 'fire damaged'.

After a year of being married, we were chatting one day and I asked my wife, out of interest, how much her first Thai husband paid and it was only 20,000baht.

A few years after that, I vaguely remember my wife insisted for some reason that dowries should be paid even if for second marriages. She even cited examples of other women she had heard about who received dowries when they remarried. Using the 'brand-new-vs-second-hand' logic I just asked her whether I should give her mom 10k and she hasn't mentioned it since.

I'm still not 100% sure of the 'rules' - I think Thais just make it up as they go and get away with what they can.

[wherma22]

100k is more than enough, you can pay the rest later

That picture made my day!

[chrisandsu]

I thought you was paying for the virginity (kind of rare these days) and for taking a worker out of the fields . In today's version it's probably closer to no kids and first marriage . Has a career that supports her family so will lose that household income . Would makes sense to me but once you pay don't support her family in anything , you don't pay twice for one bite of steak .

[AZBill]

Some Thai idiot just paid a fortune for some Thai woman that needed plastic surgery! Don't be so hard on yourselves!

[jerojero]

It's not a dowry. Do a little research about the country and culture you're questioning.

[jerojero]

Yes, of course a dowry should be paid if a foreigner is marrying a Thai lady in Thailand, unless the family of the bride has waived the custom for some reason. It is expected and customary.

Of course there are many here who resent a custom not their own in a country not their own, especially so if it costs them money. - though I doubt if they were to be getting paid rather than paying that they would not find it a quite charming idea...

How much did you pay?

Btw, original question is somewhat irrelevant as sinsod is always returned to the couple. The cost of parents wedding should be covered by guest "donations".

So in reality, you don't really pay anything.. It's money for the show.

.... Sin sot is not always returned to the couple. Do some research on the subject.

[williamgeorgeallen]

there is a very simple answer to the who sin sot thing. as westerners is is almost impossible (is said almost) to find a thai woman with no kids or that has not lived with or been married to anyone before. a thai woman who already has kids or who has previous husbands or live in boyfriends does not require a dowry. if you do find that unicorn, especially if she is young, you will just have to pony up like the thais do. you are marring a thai girl and will have to follow their traditions or face the consequences.

[ericthai]

there is a very simple answer to the who sin sot thing. as westerners is is almost impossible (is said almost) to find a thai woman with no kids or that has not lived with or been married to anyone before. a thai woman who already has kids or who has previous husbands or live in boyfriends does not require a dowry. if you do find that unicorn, especially if she is young, you will just have to pony up like the thais do. you are marring a thai girl and will have to follow their traditions or face the consequences.

Dont go to bars to meet girls and you will find allot of Thai girls that dont have kids or live-in boy friends. My wife had no kids and no live-in boy friend. She was still living at home when

I met her and we had to take things slow because of her parents. I have worked as many factories around Thailand and met allot of girls that dont have any kids and either live at home or live with another girl.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Yes, of course a dowry should be paid if a foreigner is marrying a Thai lady in Thailand, unless the family of the bride has waived the custom for some reason. It is expected and customary.

Of course there are many here who resent a custom not their own in a country not their own, especially so if it costs them money. - though I doubt if they were to be getting paid rather than paying that they would not find it a quite charming idea...

How much did you pay?

Btw, original question is somewhat irrelevant as sinsod is always returned to the couple. The cost of parents wedding should be covered by guest "donations".

So in reality, you don't really pay anything.. It's money for the show.

.... Sin sot is not always returned to the couple. Do some research on the subject.

I could care less about doing research on the subject, but I did a lot of research on a woman I married and I didn't pay jack for sinsod even though she has no kids and never been married.

[williamgeorgeallen]

there is a very simple answer to the who sin sot thing. as westerners is is almost impossible (is said almost) to find a thai woman with no kids or that has not lived with or been married to anyone before. a thai woman who already has kids or who has previous husbands or live in boyfriends does not require a dowry. if you do find that unicorn, especially if she is young, you will just have to pony up like the thais do. you are marring a thai girl and will have to follow their traditions or face the consequences.

Dont go to bars to meet girls and you will find allot of Thai girls that dont have kids or live-in boy friends. My wife had no kids and no live-in boy friend. She was still living at home when

I met her and we had to take things slow because of her parents. I have worked as many factories around Thailand and met allot of girls that dont have any kids and either live at home or live with another girl.

my mistake, it is possible to find girls with no kids or ex thai husbands. tricky part is finding one without kids or an ex that is willing to have a long term relationship with a westerner. ok it is a bit easier for guys like us who live and work in thailand but for those who are retired or younger guys visiting it is alot harder. even the dating sites are just full of bargirls now. i have a few friends who are over the bargirl scene and are now looking for 'the one' most of them have given up even looking after finding the non bargirls are simply too boring. they are probably better off looking for a girl back in their own country.

[Mike West]

Pay up, OP.

I'm just not that desperate, too many female Thai fish in the Issan sea.

you sound miserable

[Mike West]

It's not a dowry. Do a little research about the country and culture you're questioning.

NO!

[wildewillie89]

If the parents and wife are reasonable people and want the best for their daughter they will find a way to get around it. What we did was have a Christian wedding (a Buddhist and non religious person pretending to be Christian). Saved a lot of the hassle of having to present sin sord as I naturally am against the idea, but also had no physical money. Cos one thing you can't do in the world is disrespect others religions so no one could ask questions lol, only speculate of how much a private sin sord was. Go around telling the gossipers a bullshit story that the groom paid a big sin sord. Family keeps face, everyone's happy

[WishWashMan]

Yes, of course a dowry should be paid if a foreigner is marrying a Thai lady in Thailand, unless the family of the bride has waived the custom for some reason. It is expected and customary.

Of course there are many here who resent a custom not their own in a country not their own, especially so if it costs them money. - though I doubt if they were to be getting paid rather than paying that they would not find it a quite charming idea...

How much did you pay?

Btw, original question is somewhat irrelevant as sinsod is always returned to the couple. The cost of parents wedding should be covered by guest "donations".

So in reality, you don't really pay anything.. It's money for the show.

what if the money is lost in transit? lol.

[wildewillie89]

Yes, of course a dowry should be paid if a foreigner is marrying a Thai lady in Thailand, unless the family of the bride has waived the custom for some reason. It is expected and customary.

Of course there are many here who resent a custom not their own in a country not their own, especially so if it costs them money. - though I doubt if they were to be getting paid rather than paying that they would not find it a quite charming idea...

How much did you pay?

Btw, original question is somewhat irrelevant as sinsod is always returned to the couple. The cost of parents wedding should be covered by guest "donations".

So in reality, you don't really pay anything.. It's money for the show.

what if the money is lost in transit? lol.

From my understanding sin sord is not always returned to the couple. And returning it to the couple is a more of a new thing. But surely if you're marrying the girl she comes from reasonable people who will return it. How much is all subjective. There is no right answer. Depends on her age, education, job, previous relationships or children, financial or social status of family etc

[hawker9000]

Amazing that anyone in this day & age would even consider paying it. I've been told by a number of Thais (who admittedly are not Isaan born and bred and pretty much middle class) that for a foreigner to pay sin sod in anything but a symbolic amount is archaic and pure exploitation. But different opinions are what make a horse race I guess. Again, just me, but the girl I thought to marry insisting on it, for whatever reason, would give me serious pause.

[akirasan]

I've been to 4 esan weddings recently, 1 foreigner marrying a Thai, the rest Thai/Thai weddings (one of which was a divorcee). Money was paid/shown at every one.

[spidermike007]

Dowry is extremely common in Thailand. This is one of the few countries in the world that a dowry is paid to the woman's family. The groom's family would have to have some understanding of this.

There are many kinds of dowry, and the amount depends on alot. Typically, the amount requested is far beyond what the woman is worth, if all things are taken into account. The younger, and the more beautiful she is, typically the more the dowry. If she has been married before, has children, or is older, the dowry should be less. It really is that simple.

But, the whole dowry thing has gotten bigger over the years, as a goombah here and there has paid an enormous sum of money, and gold, and has messed with everyone's perspective on the whole matter. I remember the story of the Aussie CEO who paid 20 million baht cash, plus 30 baht of gold. It was on the front page of the Bangkok Post. Thai women talked about it for days. All of a sudden nearly every average looking woman in Issan thought they were worth a half million baht, or more.

In my case, I had helped her family previously, to start a business, which became a real success, and entirely changed the families lives. They were good, hard working people who simply needed a break in life. So, when it came time for us to get married, I told her the dowry had already been paid in the form of the money I had given them early on. We did a fake dowry. I put up 400K cash, and got it back the day after the wedding. It was all about appearances, as it often is here.

Don't be fooled. Don't overpay.

[worgeordie]

One thing for sure this will be the first payment of many to follow,

you will call them loans,but the Thai borrowers will look at it as

a gift,and it will never get repaid.

regards worgeordie

[ericthai]

Yes, of course a dowry should be paid if a foreigner is marrying a Thai lady in Thailand, unless the family of the bride has waived the custom for some reason. It is expected and customary.

Of course there are many here who resent a custom not their own in a country not their own, especially so if it costs them money. - though I doubt if they were to be getting paid rather than paying that they would not find it a quite charming idea...

How much did you pay?

Btw, original question is somewhat irrelevant as sinsod is always returned to the couple. The cost of parents wedding should be covered by guest "donations".

So in reality, you don't really pay anything.. It's money for the show.

It's not always returned. I got my sin sod back, but I know a Thai guy and an expat that didnt get anything back. So not always but I would say in most cases it is.

[ericthai]

Amazing that anyone in this day & age would even consider paying it. I've been told by a number of Thais (who admittedly are not Isaan born and bred and pretty much middle class) that for a foreigner to pay sin sod in anything but a symbolic amount is archaic and pure exploitation. But different opinions are what make a horse race I guess. Again, just me, but the girl I thought to marry insisting on it, for whatever reason, would give me serious pause.

I can understand your pause, but if you knew you were getting the money back, would that changes things?

I see so many guys post they would never pay this, not their culture. I have one question to ask. If your Thai girlfriend or wife came back home with you for Christmas and she refused to buy any gifts for your family as it is not her religion / culture would you accept that? or would you buy gifts for everyone and just say they are from both of you?

People move to Thailand but then refuse to accept the culture, dont learn any of the language and then complain about everything. I'm not saying you need to try and become Thai (like some guys try)

but to understand the culture and accept it, not fight it.

[cyberfarang]

Amazing that anyone in this day & age would even consider paying it. I've been told by a number of Thais (who admittedly are not Isaan born and bred and pretty much middle class) that for a foreigner to pay sin sod in anything but a symbolic amount is archaic and pure exploitation. But different opinions are what make a horse race I guess. Again, just me, but the girl I thought to marry insisting on it, for whatever reason, would give me serious pause.

I can understand your pause, but if you knew you were getting the money back, would that changes things?

I see so many guys post they would never pay this, not their culture. I have one question to ask. If your Thai girlfriend or wife came back home with you for Christmas and she refused to buy any gifts for your family as it is not her religion / culture would you accept that? or would you buy gifts for everyone and just say they are from both of you?

People move to Thailand but then refuse to accept the culture, dont learn any of the language and then complain about everything. I'm not saying you need to try and become Thai (like some guys try)

but to understand the culture and accept it, not fight it.

Yes, if I really loved the girl. If a Farlang is 50 or over on a retirement visa staying in Thailand, to what benefit is it for him to get officially married? none. That way his Thai partner can`t lay any claims on him. If a Farlang under 50 is staying in Thailand and has a reasonably income, well turned out and not a geek or a moron and want`s to marry a Thai for a marriage visa, he should have no problems finding a Thai wife, the dating sites have wall to wall Thai women seeking Farlang husbands, he is spoilt for choice with no need to pay a sin sot unless the women is a Princess or Miss Thailand Universe. The only Farlangs that would even consider paying for the hand of someone else`s daughter must be desperate or too ugly to find girlfriends by normal means.

A MALE FAIRY TALE?

Once upon a time, a Prince asked a beautiful Princess, "Will you marry me?"

The Princess immediately said, "No!"

And the Prince lived happily ever after, and rode motorcycles and dated thin, long-legged, full-breasted women, and hunted and fished and raced cars, and went to titty bars and dated ladies half his age and drank whiskey, beer, and Captain Morgan, and never heard bitching and never paid child support or alimony, and dated cheerleaders and kept his house and guns, and ate spam and potato chips and beans, and blew enormous farts, and never got cheated on while he was at work, and all his friends and family thought he was <deleted>' cool as hell, and he had tons of money in the bank, and left the toilet seat up.

The End.

[stupidfarang]

Bet you a hot cross bun to a pound of ripe bananas that 99.99% of Thai parents will not find moneyies received from foreign personage insulting. On the contrary, if the husband is a foreigner, the dowry should be at least double.

Only Double? Bet you two hot cross buns it would be quadruple hahahaha

[bwpage3]

If you cannot trust your wife to return the sin sod, you should not be getting married period.

If you do not have any money to pay sin sod, man up and state that as a reason.

Why come on TV blaring about never paying, when you don't have any money to pay anyways?

Why do you think your wife and her family does not deserve "face" for one day and a fairy tale wedding like every other woman in the entire world dreams of?

Shame on you if she trusts you and you have lied because you are a broke dick.

One only has to read through Thai Visa to see the horror stories of divorce and I bet lack of money is the # 1 cause of most of them.

Even Isaan girls want a house, car, etc. They could marry a broke dick Thai that speaks their own language and eats their own food just as easy as marrying you and getting nothing. Think they want to be a slave and house keeper for a broke farang? Wrong answer!

Lack of education is a troubling thing. In Isaan, many still believe all farang's are rich and until they learn the hard way, many times after marriage, then divorce becomes eminent.

For those of you with no money that want to get married, well if a lady is stupid enough to trust you and marry you, then finds out you have nothing, won't be long till she takes off. Then you have no one to blame but yourself because you are not really that smart if you are living in Thailand with no money in the first place.

Even though we live in the USA where my wife has everything she dreamed she would never have, the greatest thing of all was the Sin Sod for her fathers "face" (which was returned) and the gigantic wedding party where she was queen of her village for a few days.

Those are the things that mean the very most to her.

Very happy to do that for her and it has made a huge difference.

So who is scamming who here?

[theguyfromanotherforum]

If you cannot trust your wife to return the sin sod, you should not be getting married period.

If you do not have any money to pay sin sod, man up and state that as a reason.

Why come on TV blaring about never paying, when you don't have any money to pay anyways?

Why do you think your wife and her family does not deserve "face" for one day and a fairy tale wedding like every other woman in the entire world dreams of?

Shame on you if she trusts you and you have lied because you are a broke dick.

One only has to read through Thai Visa to see the horror stories of divorce and I bet lack of money is the # 1 cause of most of them.

Even Isaan girls want a house, car, etc. They could marry a broke dick Thai that speaks their own language and eats their own food just as easy as marrying you and getting nothing. Think they want to be a slave and house keeper for a broke farang? Wrong answer!

Lack of education is a troubling thing. In Isaan, many still believe all farang's are rich and until they learn the hard way, many times after marriage, then divorce becomes eminent.

For those of you with no money that want to get married, well if a lady is stupid enough to trust you and marry you, then finds out you have nothing, won't be long till she takes off. Then you have no one to blame but yourself because you are not really that smart if you are living in Thailand with no money in the first place.

Even though we live in the USA where my wife has everything she dreamed she would never have, the greatest thing of all was the Sin Sod for her fathers "face" (which was returned) and the gigantic wedding party where she was queen of her village for a few days.

Those are the things that mean the very most to her.

Very happy to do that for her and it has made a huge difference.

So who is scamming who here?

What are you on about?

[hawker9000]

Amazing that anyone in this day & age would even consider paying it. I've been told by a number of Thais (who admittedly are not Isaan born and bred and pretty much middle class) that for a foreigner to pay sin sod in anything but a symbolic amount is archaic and pure exploitation. But different opinions are what make a horse race I guess. Again, just me, but the girl I thought to marry insisting on it, for whatever reason, would give me serious pause.

I can understand your pause, but if you knew you were getting the money back, would that changes things?

I see so many guys post they would never pay this, not their culture. I have one question to ask. If your Thai girlfriend or wife came back home with you for Christmas and she refused to buy any gifts for your family as it is not her religion / culture would you accept that? or would you buy gifts for everyone and just say they are from both of you?

People move to Thailand but then refuse to accept the culture, dont learn any of the language and then complain about everything. I'm not saying you need to try and become Thai (like some guys try)

but to understand the culture and accept it, not fight it.

Yes, it would (change things). Just word-play, but if it's been agreed that you'll be getting it back, then you're not really paying it. I don't actually accept that sin sod is as much a significant part of the "culture" today as some "experts" here claim. And I base that on conversations with Thais themselves. But if a little kabuki serves some purpose fine: the many things Thais do in the name of "face" but with little actual substance involved is undeniably part of the culture. Again, just my opinion. An intended insisting on payment of this would change my opinion of her, and I would take it as a sign of what to expect in the years ahead. Thanks, but no thanks.

Nothing at all to do with gift-giving. (But, as a matter-of-fact and since you ask, if she felt it appropriate to leave our Christmas or other gift-giving as a couple to my family & friends in my hands, I'd be very OK with that.)

[jacksam]

Yes, of course a dowry should be paid if a foreigner is marrying a Thai lady in Thailand, unless the family of the bride has waived the custom for some reason. It is expected and customary.

Of course there are many here who resent a custom not their own in a country not their own, especially so if it costs them money. - though I doubt if they were to be getting paid rather than paying that they would not find it a quite charming idea...

How much did you pay?

Btw, original question is somewhat irrelevant as sinsod is always returned to the couple. The cost of parents wedding should be covered by guest "donations".

So in reality, you don't really pay anything.. It's money for the show.

Maybe in your case!

Could not be further from reality in most cases.

[merijn]

I married my wife after living together for about 14 years.

When the Sin Sot was discussed ( i asked her about it) she was very surprised and told me laughing that she and her family doesn't do this tradition.

She told me (and from my own experience) that more and more Thai families are stopping with the whole Sin Sot tradition.

Maybe this change is something more in the South of the country i don't know this.

BTW We are now over 14 years happily married and still counting.