The Infamous Dowry

[Doc46]

It's up to you how big of a Sod you are to fall for this crap.

[bazza40]

Can't understand why this topic gets so complicated.It's simple - don't get married.

[Bantex]

Yes, of course a dowry should be paid if a foreigner is marrying a Thai lady in Thailand, unless the family of the bride has waived the custom for some reason. It is expected and customary.

Of course there are many here who resent a custom not their own in a country not their own, especially so if it costs them money. - though I doubt if they were to be getting paid rather than paying that they would not find it a quite charming idea...

How much did you pay?

Btw, original question is somewhat irrelevant as sinsod is always returned to the couple. The cost of parents wedding should be covered by guest "donations".

So in reality, you don't really pay anything.. It's money for the show.

So if the money is returned and you pay nothing why not just write out a check

for like two or five million baht and they can frame it and hang on the wall.

That way whenever they have visitors to their home they can pat themselves

on their back.

[jeab1980]

OP said, "It seems like a topic of controversy, but should a dowry be paid if the husband is a foreigner?

ESPECIALLY if the husband is a foreigner!!!

Absolutely, that's why birds marry a farang....

is that what you think!! Not so in our case I promise you. Yes husband paid sin sot but it was for show it's a Thai tradition (sure that will get the well I never paid people out). Thai marry Thai same but money returned. Thai marry Farrang same same. No not doubled that is a TV myth

[Bantex]

Sin Sot is expected by most Thai families.

Sometimes it is for show to wedding guests and you may be given some or all back but her family will most likely keep the full amount.

Talk to your bride to be and ask her how much her family want and what will happen to money afterwards. Some just want cash, with others it may be cash and gold.

This is where you will find out a lot about her and her family.

Personally I was given everything back and her family paid for the wedding but this rare.

Good luck.

[BlindMagician]

Is the wife to be, an object to buy or sell? A rare species of monkey? Do the sets of parents on either side value backward thinking traditions? Can you afford any dowry? Does anyone outside of the families care? Trump or Clinton? The mind boggles.

[ChrisKC]

As I understand it, a dowry can neither be demanded or expected if the girl is not a virgin or has previously been married. I haven't tested this understanding. Anyone care to enlighten me?

[Mike West]

I'm sure the groom's parents will view this as extremely insulting.

Bet you a hot cross bun to a pound of ripe bananas that 99.99% of Thai parents will not find moneyies received from foreign personage insulting. On the contrary, if the husband is a foreigner, the dowry should be at least double.

hahahaha he clearly doesn't know the basics, don't know why he's trying to give advice on the subject

[Mike West]

OP said, "It seems like a topic of controversy, but should a dowry be paid if the husband is a foreigner?

ESPECIALLY if the husband is a foreigner!!!

Absolutely, that's why birds marry a farang....

Well we all now know why your wife married you

[sometimewoodworker]

As I understand it, a dowry can neither be demanded or expected if the girl is not a virgin or has previously been married. I haven't tested this understanding. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Yes. Neither understanding is correct.

[bazza40]

As I understand it, a dowry can neither be demanded or expected if the girl is not a virgin or has previously been married. I haven't tested this understanding. Anyone care to enlighten me?

A Thai virgin? What planet have you come from?

[Colabamumbai]

The dowry "Sin Sod" is dead, unless she is a virgin or you are a Thai. Go to India where the womans' family will pay you.

[Tchooptip]

Are sinsots only for the first wedding? Or also for marrying a divorcee?

[Global Guy]

I thought I read that the origins of a dowry in Thailand is tied to when a young girl worked the family farm and if a man wanted to marry the daughter and move away, thereby taking away unpaid labor away from the farm, that the dowry was a way to compensate for this lost free labor?

Sort of like a bar fine is at an agogo bar.

When my gf and I have joked about marriage issues she mentioned the dowry and said it is Thai culture. I said she's not on the farm, and her family isn't losing a laborer if we were ever to get married so a dowry doesn't apply to our situation.

I also mentioned the bar fine comparison and said I'm not marrying a bar girl.

It's also Thai custom/culture to over charge or otherwise scam foreigners. Customary/culture is not a syllable for "right." Just as it's customary for foreigners to lose their sense of reality when a 20 year old girl bats her eyes at them. So many guys are obsessed with abandoning their own culture thinking Thais will accept them more.

News flash...no matter what a foreigner does, he will always be looked at with bias tinted glasses as a foreigner in Thailand.

I also told my gf that paying for a wife is against my culture.

So, my decision is to either piss off her parents (I know they will be angry if I don't pay) or not pay and be okay with making a decision to not fall victim for a cultural scam.

In the two times this has come up, I said the same things both times. I'm not paying a bar fine for a wife. It's no different. I will prove I can care for my wife by caring for my wife. If anything, paying a dowry hampers my ability to care for her, not proves it. I also joked that her engagement ring (with 55 diamonds) can be considered her dowry if she wants to look at it another way.

I know there are those guys out there who insist on doing everything 100% the Thai way "You are in Thailand mate. If you don't like it you can leave" as if they are some authority on Thai/Western relations.

I'm not trying to be a Thai.

Just my two cents.....

[ChrisKC]

As I understand it, a dowry can neither be demanded or expected if the girl is not a virgin or has previously been married. I haven't tested this understanding. Anyone care to enlighten me?

A Thai virgin? What planet have you come from?

If you don't know the answer why do you reply with an inane remark? You know ALL Thai women past and present, do you?

[willyumiii]

Yes, of course a dowry should be paid if a foreigner is marrying a Thai lady in Thailand, unless the family of the bride has waived the custom for some reason. It is expected and customary.

Of course there are many here who resent a custom not their own in a country not their own, especially so if it costs them money. - though I doubt if they were to be getting paid rather than paying that they would not find it a quite charming idea...

How much did you pay?

Btw, original question is somewhat irrelevant as sinsod is always returned to the couple. The cost of parents wedding should be covered by guest "donations".

So in reality, you don't really pay anything.. It's money for the show.

I agree.

It may not happen every time, but when I was married, I was surprised when we returned from our honeymoon that all the money i paid had beed deposited into a bank account...in my wife's name.

The money I paid for the wedding celebration itself, was also deposited in the same account.

[williamgeorgeallen]

OP said, "It seems like a topic of controversy, but should a dowry be paid if the husband is a foreigner?

ESPECIALLY if the husband is a foreigner!!!

Why is that?

hope you dont mind if i answer that. from my understanding traditionally a dowry is paid for the first time a girl is married provided she has no kids. if she is divorced or has children to a previous partner then a dowry are not required. marrying a thai prostitute certainly does not require a dowry especially when she is past her prime regardless of how many children she has. this it seams is not know buy alot of western men getting married to their bar girls who have one or more children to their previous/current thai husbands/boyfriends. hopefully these western guys will educate themselves more in the future by reading websites such as thai visa.

[williamgeorgeallen]

actually a google search turned up this good explanation http://www.livingthai.org/how-much-should-you-pay-for-a-thai-dowry.html

[Bender]

i know a guy who paid half million baht in sinsod.... 3 months later the thai wife did a runner with another foreigner... and i did warn him several time.

[1FinickyOne]

As I understand it, a dowry can neither be demanded or expected if the girl is not a virgin or has previously been married. I haven't tested this understanding. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Hi Chris - I think things are still going to be somewhat up in the air. I know a mid 30s hilltribe girl/lady with a kid. She has very little money and her boyfriend has a small salary. I asked her if there would be sin sot if they got married. she laughed and said she wasn't sure, maybe 3,000 baht - and she was not joking, but she is not very attractive and with the kid and mother to support, she is not a great catch. I bet if she was smashing looking, the price would be higher - by the way, this conversation was a couple of years ago and the guy is not jumping at the bait...

On the other hand, though not previously married, - a Thai friend of mine was marrying into a very wealthy family. He was required to build a very expensive house for her and I think give something for the family too that was not coming back. He had to work his butt off and borrow the rest to come up with near 15 MM baht...

[thai3]

100k is more than enough, you can pay the rest later

[Dene16]

Yes, of course a dowry should be paid if a foreigner is marrying a Thai lady in Thailand, unless the family of the bride has waived the custom for some reason. It is expected and customary.

Of course there are many here who resent a custom not their own in a country not their own, especially so if it costs them money. - though I doubt if they were to be getting paid rather than paying that they would not find it a quite charming idea...

How much did you pay?

Btw, original question is somewhat irrelevant as sinsod is always returned to the couple. The cost of parents wedding should be covered by guest "donations".

So in reality, you don't really pay anything.. It's money for the show.

Not always returned...........

Everyone is talking about the upcoming marriage of an Australian (45) to thai girl (25) in our village.

He has already purchased her a good car and is paying one million baht in sin sod to the family

I can assure you they are NOT giving it back as they are already talking about how they are going to spend it

Every wedding i have been to or heard of here has included the negotiations for the sin sod. I have never heard of the money being returned although it obviously does happen. This probably depends on how rich they are and if he supports the family already

[bwpage3]

The people that do the biggest bitching and complaining about Sin Sot are the ones that don't have any money to pay.

Who in their right mind would want to start off a marriage arguing about money (sin sot)?

Not sure what type of marriages these people get into, but I think it is pretty clear the husband to be and wife are already not on the same page in life?

Why do people want to get married and then fight with the family about money? I really don't get this?

You as a man should be looking out for your wife and her "face" and she should be looking out for your money.

If there is any discord there, this is a relationship that is never going to last.

My wife's father is poor as dirt. He did not ask me for anything except to do a good job taking care of her.

My wife and I discussed all the plans together. She wanted her father to have some "face" in the village by showing a good amount of Sin Sot.

Mine was around 300,000 THB, another amount in US $ dollars and the gold I bought her which she picked out prior.

My wife arranged with her father that all the money would be returned; which is was.

All my wife really wanted was the huge wedding. Live Band, dancers, tons of food, a real wedding dress, party dress etc. This bash cost us around 100,000 thb. and I was fully aware and accepting of that amount. (very cheap for a lifetime of memories).

We paid all the villagers who were cooking, serving, cleaning, helping etc.

We took in around 30,000 thb in the wedding cards, which was a shock in this poor village and gave that to all the relatives when they went home.

So in the end, my wife's dream, which I am sure many girls have, was to have the Cinderella wedding and be the center attention of the village for a couple of days. Her father gets the "face" and respect in the village his daughter was worth something. Everyone is happy.

So the money was returned, everything went off in a very happy manner. It was a great way to leave things in Thailand as we have relocated to Florida and now have the happiest of lives. Reminders of the wedding are everywhere and my wife is still very thankful for the wedding itself.

For all of the non-believers out there, my wife has a new car and a pocket full of the top credit cards, whose balance I pay every month.

Most people would say whoa. How can you trust a Thai with credit cards and accounts?

The answer is pretty simple if you married the right person and have a respected relationship.

My wife is a dream. Not too many people can open their closet and see all their shirts arranged by color. hahahahahaha!

Life is just super wonderful and if you give your wife the same respect you want to receive, you can have the dream life and lots of love.

[ericthai]

When my wife an I got married I got back the sin sod and some time after the wedding her father gave us (her) land. So we did good. However her mother died about 1 year after we got married.

About 8 month or so passed and my wife and her sisters decided it was time for their father to find another wife. So the word got out and they found an older lady that was married before and has 3 grown children

living with her. They met and were happy, it was decided they would get married in two months. Then the wife to be called asking about Sin sod. My wife told her 20,000B since she was in her late 50's and grown children.

That didn't go over well, then the wife to be started talking about her and her kids moving in with us. She lived in a typical farmers type house which is no more than a bamboo hut. She wanted to live in the concrete house with us.

Well my wife said that was it this lady is just a gold digger and they are not going to get married. The lady called demanding money for a new dress she bought and supplies she already bought for the wedding this that etc.

My wife ended up having to pay 10,000B to her. So guys this does happen to Thai's too.

[Roomuck]

A Thai doctor on another thread just paid 22 million and piles of gold last week.

It is on another thread.

I wonder what the most a farang has ever paid.

[rocketboybkk]

Bet you a hot cross bun to a pound of ripe bananas that 99.99% of Thai parents will not find moneyies received from foreign personage insulting. On the contrary, if the husband is a foreigner, the dowry should be at least double.

& doubled again with X amount of gold thrown in for the sake of it

Dowry, didn't pay it & never would

[mrfaroukh]

Dowry is a Thai culture and is paid both by Thai and Farang. Now since it is not our culture we feel that they are not right to ask for dowry. But anyway it is their culture and you should take it or leave it. If you think everything is free in this world then while you are a 60 year old man you better look for a free bride of 24 year old in your own country.

According to Thai culture you show your generosity when you are giving dowry. The more you give more generous you are and that is something good according to them. But unfortunately it is also misused by some Thai.

[rhodie]

Bet you a hot cross bun to a pound of ripe bananas that 99.99% of Thai parents will not find moneyies received from foreign personage insulting. On the contrary, if the husband is a foreigner, the dowry should be at least double.

It's called dual pricing, but is in fact 10 or 20 times more.

[starky]

The people that do the biggest bitching and complaining about Sin Sot are the ones that don't have any money to pay.

Who in their right mind would want to start off a marriage arguing about money (sin sot)?

Not sure what type of marriages these people get into, but I think it is pretty clear the husband to be and wife are already not on the same page in life?

Why do people want to get married and then fight with the family about money? I really don't get this?

You as a man should be looking out for your wife and her "face" and she should be looking out for your money.

If there is any discord there, this is a relationship that is never going to last.

My wife's father is poor as dirt. He did not ask me for anything except to do a good job taking care of her.

My wife and I discussed all the plans together. She wanted her father to have some "face" in the village by showing a good amount of Sin Sot.

Mine was around 300,000 THB, another amount in US $ dollars and the gold I bought her which she picked out prior.

My wife arranged with her father that all the money would be returned; which is was.

All my wife really wanted was the huge wedding. Live Band, dancers, tons of food, a real wedding dress, party dress etc. This bash cost us around 100,000 thb. and I was fully aware and accepting of that amount. (very cheap for a lifetime of memories).

We paid all the villagers who were cooking, serving, cleaning, helping etc.

We took in around 30,000 thb in the wedding cards, which was a shock in this poor village and gave that to all the relatives when they went home.

So in the end, my wife's dream, which I am sure many girls have, was to have the Cinderella wedding and be the center attention of the village for a couple of days. Her father gets the "face" and respect in the village his daughter was worth something. Everyone is happy.

So the money was returned, everything went off in a very happy manner. It was a great way to leave things in Thailand as we have relocated to Florida and now have the happiest of lives. Reminders of the wedding are everywhere and my wife is still very thankful for the wedding itself.

For all of the non-believers out there, my wife has a new car and a pocket full of the top credit cards, whose balance I pay every month.

Most people would say whoa. How can you trust a Thai with credit cards and accounts?

The answer is pretty simple if you married the right person and have a respected relationship.

My wife is a dream. Not too many people can open their closet and see all their shirts arranged by color. hahahahahaha!

Life is just super wonderful and if you give your wife the same respect you want to receive, you can have the dream life and lots of love.

Agree 100% and my experience was similar. Great post a wedding day all over the world is meant to be a dream day for your wife..End of. In Thailand it just happens to include sin sod. If you want your wife to lose enormous face then just dig in argue about how you wont pay and sook about the old "well we dont pay sin sod in farangistan" shtick great way to start life together. You that complain about sin sod obviously have no clue about what a wedding in the west costs these days and thats before you have to pony up for the honeymoon, the cars and the thirty year mortgage.

[F4UCorsair]

OP said, "It seems like a topic of controversy, but should a dowry be paid if the husband is a foreigner?

ESPECIALLY if the husband is a foreigner!!!

Why is that?

Because they're suckers suffering yellow fever, caught up in the excitement of marrying an Asian woman, and from the family's point of view, better off financially than most Thais, and therefore have the ability to pay.......more.

Search posts here, and see that once they're on the roundabout, how the requests/demands for $$ continue, not all, but most!!

It's not unlike lending money to a friend. He hasn't paid any back, but asks for more. What do you do? Cut him loose and lose what you've already lent, or extend a bit more hoping that he will come good. The family starts with sin sod, and moves onto 'borrowing' money, or just plain asks that you foot the cost of keeping and educating some other guy's kid, granny's operation that often doesn't eventuate, and of course the cliched sick buffalo, broken down pickup, and on it goes.

If you're unsure, even a little, get off the roundabout, and the sooner the better.

But......there are some success stories, and there is one above, but I think if you use first person stories found here on TV, the bad experiences outnumber the good by a wide margin, or perhaps few with a good story bother to tell.