Gen Prawit hopes Ms Yingluck gave factual information to European Parliament

[JAG]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

Add, she has no idea what democracy really means nor does she understand the processes which build and protect democracy, so she can't engage in any substantive discussions about democracy. If the EU committee had done it's homework they would know this very clearly.

What a farce.

Being democratically voted in I would say that she knows a great deal more about democracy than those who seized power by force of arms.

The Europeans obviously realise this too.

Whats more her claims to " be democratic" are reinforced by the fact that she called elections to allow the people to decide the matter. The coup and junta put a stop to that. How anyone can claim that ( stopping an election and staging a coup to install a junta) is remotely democratic is quite astonishing.

[Khun Han]

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

She was elected in a landslide victory against a squeaky clean looking, well spoken, unelected puppet, who is also asking the junta to step aside.. She should have had the chance to fight an impeachment or be voted out.

She gave up that position and then tried to hold onto it illegally after she could not get elections to happen the way she wanted them to. Maybe she won a landslide but that doesn't mean she did it legally either or morally ethical. It could only mean she or Thak paid her way through that and as for that landslide, it was mostly accomplished through voters in the north where they had already been bought and paid for by thaksin.

The same old broken record about bought votes.

As for her disolving parliament, she did it to try to stop the mayhem caused by the plotters. That, IMHO, was the PTP's big mistake. They should have forced the army to remove them which would have been a huge propoganda coup as seen by the rest of the world.

The democratic government of the day tried that back in 2008. First they asked the army, who refused. Then they asked (I think) the navy, who also refused. Why would the armed forces remove a protest they were heavily involved in organising? Army boss Anupong (one of the main organisers of the last lot of demonstrations, along with the ugly at the head of this thread) was blatant enough to go on tv to demand that the government of the day step down!

Edited May 19, 2016 by Khun Han

[Baerboxer]

Does he mean ' factual information ' similar to the factual information the junta releases ?

Well telling the truth or giving factual information would be a first for Yingluck.

No doubt her brother's advisers and lobbyists had prepared and rehearsed her so that the information he wanted would be transferred.

Fact, truth, reality, doesn't come into it.

And to be fair, the EU clowns in the nice little roles aren't particularly interested in that either.

[Baerboxer]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

Very true,

And one must consider why these EU politicians choose to talk to one side only. Seems they are only interested in one side of the story.

[MZurf]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

Very true,

And one must consider why these EU politicians choose to talk to one side only. Seems they are only interested in one side of the story.

I don't think they're as stupid as some here apparently think they are. I think they know full well what's going on in Thailand and choose to show their support to the "least bad" side, the one that was actually voted into power by the electorate.

[Baerboxer]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

She was elected in a landslide victory against a squeaky clean looking, well spoken, unelected puppet, who is also asking the junta to step aside.. She should have had the chance to fight an impeachment or be voted out.

Mr History is back! Unfortunately it seems some what a murky recall though.

She was elected with the highest minority vote, which in the Thai electoral system translated to a majority of seats which she proclaimed was therefore a landslide.

She was removed by a court for illegal abuse of power and nepotism. All part of the plan to put trusted family and friends in the key positions. But in doing so she removed someone illegally.

She had dissolved parliament prior to being removed after vowing not to and was acting as caretaker PM when she was removed for her illegal action,

Now she has the chance to explain in court how she, as Chair and after confirming she was in charge, wasn't negligent in her duties in managing the rice scheme. Her explanation of non attendance of any meetings, although self appointed chair, her dismissal of any warnings or criticisms, her lack of addressing the operational issues, her failure to notice or do anything about blatant frauds - should make for an interesting defense.

Hope it's more than her usual, "I did nothing wrong, I did't know, it's all political, my family is innocent, etc etc"

[Khun Han]

^I think you'll find that the representatives of civilised countries don't give credence to governments borne of military takeovers (there, that was a nice, euphemistic description of the current govenment, wasn't it?) as a matter of course. Maybe a Thai with a strong democratic heritage can present the case for the 'other side'?

[Plutojames88]

Loss of face here is massive.

The black eyes are around the corner.

In a slow dignified manner the screws will be turned.

Xenophobic nationalistic statements will ensue

Edited May 19, 2016 by Plutojames88

[Baerboxer]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

Very true,

And one must consider why these EU politicians choose to talk to one side only. Seems they are only interested in one side of the story.

I don't think they're as stupid as some here apparently think they are. I think they know full well what's going on in Thailand and choose to show their support to the "least bad" side, the one that was actually voted into power by the electorate.

Really.

Then you have a much higher opinion of EU politicians than my experience.

I'm more cynical and think they're motivated by people who tell them what they want to here; pretend socialists, pretend democrats or feel, just like many EU ones do, that once you are elected you can do whatever you want as you're above the law.

In the UK we have those types at MEP, MP and local council level. Germany and France, the same IME.

Certainly not stupid, but with little interest in the truth, fairness or anything unless it suits their agenda.

They certainly supported the overthrow of a democratically elected Ukraine president when it suited them; and French meddling in Africa continues to cause problems.

[MZurf]

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

Very true,

And one must consider why these EU politicians choose to talk to one side only. Seems they are only interested in one side of the story.

I don't think they're as stupid as some here apparently think they are. I think they know full well what's going on in Thailand and choose to show their support to the "least bad" side, the one that was actually voted into power by the electorate.

Really.

Then you have a much higher opinion of EU politicians than my experience.

I'm more cynical and think they're motivated by people who tell them what they want to here; pretend socialists, pretend democrats or feel, just like many EU ones do, that once you are elected you can do whatever you want as you're above the law.

In the UK we have those types at MEP, MP and local council level. Germany and France, the same IME.

Certainly not stupid, but with little interest in the truth, fairness or anything unless it suits their agenda.

They certainly supported the overthrow of a democratically elected Ukraine president when it suited them; and French meddling in Africa continues to cause problems.

So in your opinion what has motivated the EU reps to rub the junta noses in it?

[elgordo38]

Does he mean ' factual information ' similar to the factual information the junta releases ?

Did you mean to say facial information. The smug look on his face says it all. Factual information here does not compute.

[Baerboxer]

Add, she has no idea what democracy really means nor does she understand the processes which build and protect democracy, so she can't engage in any substantive discussions about democracy. If the EU committee had done it's homework they would know this very clearly.

What a farce.

Being democratically voted in I would say that she knows a great deal more about democracy than those who seized power by force of arms.

The Europeans obviously realise this too.

Whats more her claims to " be democratic" are reinforced by the fact that she called elections to allow the people to decide the matter. The coup and junta put a stop to that. How anyone can claim that ( stopping an election and staging a coup to install a junta) is remotely democratic is quite astonishing.

PTP have shown they like democracy - providing they can make sure they win. Stopping even murdering opposition campaigners who dare go in "their" areas, marshaling voters (yes, they all do it), and when an election is lost, like the Bangkok governor, or the Don Meuang bi-election certainty, then engage in dirty tricks and try anything to get that vote declared void.

The people who post here equating democracy to holding an election make me laugh. North Korea has elections, so does Rhodesia, all those African "democracies" ruled by "elected" presidents who never ever loose or even come close to loosing. Even the old USSR and those East European People's democratic republics had elections. China and Viet Nam hold elections. By your criteria all democratic then?

Of course a Junta installed by the military isn't democratic. But there is far more to being democratic than being voted into office. Acting honestly, ethically and respecting the law rather than lying, cheating and flaunting the law, no matter how inept the judicial process, might help.

The Junta is exactly what it is. But what is astonishing is those who portray the Shins as something other than what they are.

[elgordo38]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

She was elected in a landslide victory against a squeaky clean looking, well spoken, unelected puppet, who is also asking the junta to step aside.. She should have had the chance to fight an impeachment or be voted out.

The turning point was when a democratically elected government called an election and that legal election was derailed. Anything beyond this point is illegal period.

[elgordo38]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

So I guess it's time for a quick lesson in facts and history as well as learning that much as you keep trying you can't rewrite history because people will correct you ok Popit.

"And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is?"

News flash, Yingluk democratically elected leader, followed the law to dissolve government, followed the law to hold elections with in 60 days.

fact 1. The EP requested a meeting with Yingluk and were granted it.

fact 2. The junta wanted a meeting with the EP to "clarify" Thailand's political situation

fact 3. The Junta leader said democracy will never die in Thailand as he is a democratic leader.

fact 4. The junta leader said that military courts never violate human rights.

fact 5. The junta leader gave himself and his mate an amnesty of past present and future crimes.

fact 6. The junta leader publicly stated that if reporters do not tell (the truth) (party line) will be executed.

fact 7. The junta leader said if he wanted to use his full powers he could have people taken out and shot.

fact 8. The junta lead has the people that investigations into his family's wealth will not be tolerated.

fact 9. The junta leader promised there would be no coup. and then promised election and reneged each time.

fact 10. You fan boy's just hate it when facts are pointed out to you, but it's ok now Popit lesson over.

OOpp's just one more little nugget for ya mate, The junta leader was not democratically elected but self imposed.

Well you hit the nail on the head do you think the truth will set them free? Hardly your dealing with the inhabitants of another world that exists in their minds only

[Baerboxer]

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

Very true,

And one must consider why these EU politicians choose to talk to one side only. Seems they are only interested in one side of the story.

I don't think they're as stupid as some here apparently think they are. I think they know full well what's going on in Thailand and choose to show their support to the "least bad" side, the one that was actually voted into power by the electorate.

Really.

Then you have a much higher opinion of EU politicians than my experience.

I'm more cynical and think they're motivated by people who tell them what they want to here; pretend socialists, pretend democrats or feel, just like many EU ones do, that once you are elected you can do whatever you want as you're above the law.

In the UK we have those types at MEP, MP and local council level. Germany and France, the same IME.

Certainly not stupid, but with little interest in the truth, fairness or anything unless it suits their agenda.

They certainly supported the overthrow of a democratically elected Ukraine president when it suited them; and French meddling in Africa continues to cause problems.

So in your opinion what has motivated the EU reps to rub the junta noses in it?

You'd have to ask them that question.

If it's the same lot that were sending invitation letters to her before, they were 2 career German politicians, members of Merkel's party, dedicated to ideal of a Federal State of Europe, with central government, central control and a social free market (there's an oxymoron). Remember one of their seniors said that "election shouldn't be allowed to change anything".

Maybe they share similar political views with her brother.

Would be very interested to see a copy of their report to their committee.

[Baerboxer]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

Add, she has no idea what democracy really means nor does she understand the processes which build and protect democracy, so she can't engage in any substantive discussions about democracy. If the EU committee had done it's homework they would know this very clearly.

What a farce.

Why do you think she - and by extension the Thai people who gave her a mandate - doesn't understand the process of democracy?

Why do you devote your energies to criticizing a flawed but legitimate government while remaining silent on the appalling situation facing the country. Can't you see your comments on democracy are dishonest and ignorant as you don't face up to the monstrous reality in front of your nose?

And as for the European Parliamentary delegation members I suspect they might have better and more honourable instincts than a few foolish old expatriates.

Your faith in European politicians is interesting. Suggesting they are honorable flattering.

[elgordo38]

And like any good Ostrich they will bury their heads in the sand. And having strangled the umbilical cord they will have free and fair elections. Where the outcome is predestined because there is no freedom of choice.When a Military believes its duty is to lead the people instead of protecting the Nation then you take a very dark path indeed. Look to Japans history to see where it leads. The similarities are very apparent. I pray the people of Thailand will make the military understand that the Military serves them not vice versa

Election tricks are used all over the globe. In the states the Republicans are trying to marginalize the negro vote and rejig constituencies to favor voters that vote Republican. Just a nip and a tuck and it could turn the 2016 American election on its head. Republicans will do every sneaky vile thing they can to get elected. Yes as a matter of disclosure I do watch Fox news from time to time as I am a captive audience of this whining machine.

[Baerboxer]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

Was she elected by the people? Yes.

Could the people vote her out of power at the next election?

Yes.

She knows a darn site more about democracy than you and the junta.

Why do you think the European Parliament asked to speak to her and not the junta.

The people could not vote her out of power - a court had removed her for an illegal abuse of power.

Had she not been banned, they could have re-elected her, had they so wished.

[Baerboxer]

And like any good Ostrich they will bury their heads in the sand. And having strangled the umbilical cord they will have free and fair elections. Where the outcome is predestined because there is no freedom of choice.When a Military believes its duty is to lead the people instead of protecting the Nation then you take a very dark path indeed. Look to Japans history to see where it leads. The similarities are very apparent. I pray the people of Thailand will make the military understand that the Military serves them not vice versa

Election tricks are used all over the globe. In the states the Republicans are trying to marginalize the negro vote and rejig constituencies to favor voters that vote Republican. Just a nip and a tuck and it could turn the 2016 American election on its head. Republicans will do every sneaky vile thing they can to get elected. Yes as a matter of disclosure I do watch Fox news from time to time as I am a captive audience of this whining machine.

True. The current US candidate selections are a good example, along with the Brexit referendum campaigns and the non stop drivel from the SNP. Social media has opened up a whole new playground for the tricksters.

Sadly, Western democracy seems to be getting more like third world democracy where lies, outrageous lies, corruption, and being above the law as de riguer for the wealthy connected few who can become politicians.

[jesimps]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

Very true,

And one must consider why these EU politicians choose to talk to one side only. Seems they are only interested in one side of the story.

Don't understand how you can be so incredibly niaive. The EU ambassadors in Thailand are reporting back constantly to their foreign ministries. Unlike you, they know exactly what's going on here. That is the reason they wish to speak to Yingluk and not the ruling junta.

[Rimmer]

A number of duplicate posts from the same poster have been removed, please take care when posting so this does not happen, thank you.

[jesimps]

Add, she has no idea what democracy really means nor does she understand the processes which build and protect democracy, so she can't engage in any substantive discussions about democracy. If the EU committee had done it's homework they would know this very clearly.

What a farce.

Being democratically voted in I would say that she knows a great deal more about democracy than those who seized power by force of arms.

The Europeans obviously realise this too.

Whats more her claims to " be democratic" are reinforced by the fact that she called elections to allow the people to decide the matter. The coup and junta put a stop to that. How anyone can claim that ( stopping an election and staging a coup to install a junta) is remotely democratic is quite astonishing.

PTP have shown they like democracy - providing they can make sure they win. Stopping even murdering opposition campaigners who dare go in "their" areas, marshaling voters (yes, they all do it), and when an election is lost, like the Bangkok governor, or the Don Meuang bi-election certainty, then engage in dirty tricks and try anything to get that vote declared void.

The people who post here equating democracy to holding an election make me laugh. North Korea has elections, so does Rhodesia, all those African "democracies" ruled by "elected" presidents who never ever loose or even come close to loosing. Even the old USSR and those East European People's democratic republics had elections. China and Viet Nam hold elections. By your criteria all democratic then?

Of course a Junta installed by the military isn't democratic. But there is far more to being democratic than being voted into office. Acting honestly, ethically and respecting the law rather than lying, cheating and flaunting the law, no matter how inept the judicial process, might help.

The Junta is exactly what it is. But what is astonishing is those who portray the Shins as something other than what they are.

Not at all we're saying that the 'Shins' were democratically voted in and could just as democratically be voted out. However, because of constant military coups, no govt is allowed to serve a full term of office. Your lot made a mockery of democracy by blockading the poling stations and ensuring the last scheduled election didn't happen. Why? Because you knew you'd get trounced and anyway your beloved military were standing by ready to step in.

[Squeegee]

She gave up that position and then tried to hold onto it illegally after she could not get elections to happen the way she wanted them to. Maybe she won a landslide but that doesn't mean she did it legally either or morally ethical. It could only mean she or Thak paid her way through that and as for that landslide, it was mostly accomplished through voters in the north where they had already been bought and paid for by thaksin.

1. " She could not get elections to happen the way she wanted them to" !! Perfectly legitimate and constitutional elections were prevented by violence and threats of violence, the military stood by sniggering whilst that happened, the courts used it as an excuse to annul the elections and the military then used it as an excuse to stage a coup and install a junta which has now put her on trial.

2. "As for that landslide it was mostly accompanied through voters in the North whose votes were paid for." The defeated Abhisit himself said the election was fair, and vote buying has been widely discredited as an influence on the result. Are you suggesting that Northern voters should be disenfranchised because they vote for a party of which you disapprove?

The European Parliament, an organisation for which I also generally have little time, seems in this instance rather to have grasped the realities of the situation, realities which you are enthusiastically trying to rewrite.

How obviously deceitful to say "after she could not get elections to happen the way she wanted them to," so no wonder this was so easy to counter and little surprise such a disingenuous misrepresentation is found among other examples of lack of substance, like the aforementioned cliches.

Once more we see the quality of the thinking. Sadly, there are countless others out there 'thinking' in similar ways... out there across the world and through history.

[jayboy]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

Add, she has no idea what democracy really means nor does she understand the processes which build and protect democracy, so she can't engage in any substantive discussions about democracy. If the EU committee had done it's homework they would know this very clearly.

What a farce.

Why do you think she - and by extension the Thai people who gave her a mandate - doesn't understand the process of democracy?

Why do you devote your energies to criticizing a flawed but legitimate government while remaining silent on the appalling situation facing the country. Can't you see your comments on democracy are dishonest and ignorant as you don't face up to the monstrous reality in front of your nose?

And as for the European Parliamentary delegation members I suspect they might have better and more honourable instincts than a few foolish old expatriates.

Your faith in European politicians is interesting. Suggesting they are honorable flattering.

Yeah yeah - here we go again, all foreign politicians who comment on Thailand are themselves corrupt and dishonourable.

How feeble is that line of defence - but our little band of old codgers trot it out as though it is some kind of devastating debating point.

[phoenixdoglover]

And like any good Ostrich they will bury their heads in the sand. And having strangled the umbilical cord they will have free and fair elections. Where the outcome is predestined because there is no freedom of choice.When a Military believes its duty is to lead the people instead of protecting the Nation then you take a very dark path indeed. Look to Japans history to see where it leads. The similarities are very apparent. I pray the people of Thailand will make the military understand that the Military serves them not vice versa

Election tricks are used all over the globe. In the states the Republicans are trying to marginalize the negro vote and rejig constituencies to favor voters that vote Republican. Just a nip and a tuck and it could turn the 2016 American election on its head. Republicans will do every sneaky vile thing they can to get elected. Yes as a matter of disclosure I do watch Fox news from time to time as I am a captive audience of this whining machine.

Agree. Politics and politicians are universal. Ambivalence is our fate.

But bringing up the US election...my God , man, what are you thinking? ;-)

[JAG]

Add, she has no idea what democracy really means nor does she understand the processes which build and protect democracy, so she can't engage in any substantive discussions about democracy. If the EU committee had done it's homework they would know this very clearly.

What a farce.

Being democratically voted in I would say that she knows a great deal more about democracy than those who seized power by force of arms.

The Europeans obviously realise this too.

Whats more her claims to " be democratic" are reinforced by the fact that she called elections to allow the people to decide the matter. The coup and junta put a stop to that. How anyone can claim that ( stopping an election and staging a coup to install a junta) is remotely democratic is quite astonishing.

PTP have shown they like democracy - providing they can make sure they win. Stopping even murdering opposition campaigners who dare go in "their" areas, marshaling voters (yes, they all do it), and when an election is lost, like the Bangkok governor, or the Don Meuang bi-election certainty, then engage in dirty tricks and try anything to get that vote declared void.

The people who post here equating democracy to holding an election make me laugh. North Korea has elections, so does Rhodesia, all those African "democracies" ruled by "elected" presidents who never ever loose or even come close to loosing. Even the old USSR and those East European People's democratic republics had elections. China and Viet Nam hold elections. By your criteria all democratic then?

Of course a Junta installed by the military isn't democratic. But there is far more to being democratic than being voted into office. Acting honestly, ethically and respecting the law rather than lying, cheating and flaunting the law, no matter how inept the judicial process, might help.

The Junta is exactly what it is. But what is astonishing is those who portray the Shins as something other than what they are.

I'm glad that those of us who regard elections as a (the) fundamental part of the democratic process make you laugh. Why am I glad? Frankly if your obsessive all consuming hatred of the Pheu Thai party, and any thing "Shinawatra" makes you believe that the electoral process here over the last two decades is comparable with North Korea, various benighted African tribal dictatorships or the former Soviet satellite states of Eastern Europe, then you must be in desperate need of all the entertainment that you can get!

Comparing Thailand under elected governments with these countries is patently absurd. Your enthusiasm to justify the junta and it's usurpation of power has taken you to arguments and assertions that are simply beyond parody !

[thesetat2013]

Add, she has no idea what democracy really means nor does she understand the processes which build and protect democracy, so she can't engage in any substantive discussions about democracy. If the EU committee had done it's homework they would know this very clearly.

What a farce.

Being democratically voted in I would say that she knows a great deal more about democracy than those who seized power by force of arms.

The Europeans obviously realise this too.

Whats more her claims to " be democratic" are reinforced by the fact that she called elections to allow the people to decide the matter. The coup and junta put a stop to that. How anyone can claim that ( stopping an election and staging a coup to install a junta) is remotely democratic is quite astonishing.

PTP have shown they like democracy - providing they can make sure they win. Stopping even murdering opposition campaigners who dare go in "their" areas, marshaling voters (yes, they all do it), and when an election is lost, like the Bangkok governor, or the Don Meuang bi-election certainty, then engage in dirty tricks and try anything to get that vote declared void.

The people who post here equating democracy to holding an election make me laugh. North Korea has elections, so does Rhodesia, all those African "democracies" ruled by "elected" presidents who never ever loose or even come close to loosing. Even the old USSR and those East European People's democratic republics had elections. China and Viet Nam hold elections. By your criteria all democratic then?

Of course a Junta installed by the military isn't democratic. But there is far more to being democratic than being voted into office. Acting honestly, ethically and respecting the law rather than lying, cheating and flaunting the law, no matter how inept the judicial process, might help.

The Junta is exactly what it is. But what is astonishing is those who portray the Shins as something other than what they are.

I'm glad that those of us who regard elections as a (the) fundamental part of the democratic process make you laugh. Why am I glad? Frankly if your obsessive all consuming hatred of the Pheu Thai party, and any thing "Shinawatra" makes you believe that the electoral process here over the last two decades is comparable with North Korea, various benighted African tribal dictatorships or the former Soviet satellite states of Eastern Europe, then you must be in desperate need of all the entertainment that you can get!

Comparing Thailand under elected governments with these countries is patently absurd. Your enthusiasm to justify the junta and it's usurpation of power has taken you to arguments and assertions that are simply beyond parody !

Hehee you do know your comment to him works both ways. Sitting there trying to make YL into a Democrat based solely on her winning an election which many have shown to be done dubiously makes me laugh as well.. I'm neither a junta lover nor a PTP hater but one can easily see if you are not biased that she was using the word democracy on the surface and then behind closed doors doing everything against what democracy stands for is two-faced to say the least. At least the junta is not lying to the people about their stance and using elections bought, or not to hold onto power. You should take 2 steps back and instead of using Mr. P or elections as your trump card, try actually looking at all the bad things she did and how many of her cohorts profited from her while she was in office. You may also have a look at the vdo clips showing her beloved PTP handing out envelopes so they would stay and protest. You will never look though because you still have your red blinders on.

[Eric Loh]

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2013/12/vote-buying-thaksin-and-the-democrats/

I thought the myth of vote buying winning an election has been busted. Yet there are recalcitrants talking about this.

[candide]

I don't think they're as stupid as some here apparently think they are. I think they know full well what's going on in Thailand and choose to show their support to the "least bad" side, the one that was actually voted into power by the electorate.

Really.

Then you have a much higher opinion of EU politicians than my experience.

I'm more cynical and think they're motivated by people who tell them what they want to here; pretend socialists, pretend democrats or feel, just like many EU ones do, that once you are elected you can do whatever you want as you're above the law.

In the UK we have those types at MEP, MP and local council level. Germany and France, the same IME.

Certainly not stupid, but with little interest in the truth, fairness or anything unless it suits their agenda.

They certainly supported the overthrow of a democratically elected Ukraine president when it suited them; and French meddling in Africa continues to cause problems.

So in your opinion what has motivated the EU reps to rub the junta noses in it?

You'd have to ask them that question.

If it's the same lot that were sending invitation letters to her before, they were 2 career German politicians, members of Merkel's party, dedicated to ideal of a Federal State of Europe, with central government, central control and a social free market (there's an oxymoron). Remember one of their seniors said that "election shouldn't be allowed to change anything".

Maybe they share similar political views with her brother.

Would be very interested to see a copy of their report to their committee.

If it's the same guys they are quite qualified to represent the European parliament: Elmar Brok, chairman of the EP Committee on Foreign Affairs, and Werner Langen, chair of the panel for relations with Southeast Asia and Asean.

Edited May 19, 2016 by candide

[rubl]

Right. Since when are facts and politicians together? The most BS comes from politicians! World over.

And just why would anyone believe her account of what democracy is or that she would not be impartial to what she tells them. Her track record of bold faced lies and of hiding true accounts as well as using the word democracy only when it suits her needs should have been enough to keep the UE for from talking to her

Was she elected by the people? Yes.

Could the people vote her out of power at the next election?

Yes.

She knows a darn site more about democracy than you and the junta.

Why do you think the European Parliament asked to speak to her and not the junta.

Of course Ms. Yingluck knows more about democracy. After all she's the clone of our criminal fugitve who knows as no one else how to misused, abuse and corrupt the system. The phrase "Let's have an election" is a prime example of propaganda and public relations. Aimed at all with a Western Democracy background. Masterful. The military don't know democracy unless it was shooting at them. For them it's a matter of (temporarily) putting it aside.

Of course the "don't have to vote for them again if not satisfied' is also nice and democratic. For one it suggests the punishment for four years corruption is the severe 'not voted for again'. Also interesting lots of Thai like to vote for corrupt politicians again and again. That's as if no one looks further than the 'in six months rich'. BTW how long did it take the Italians to get rid of Silvio B.?

I wonder if Ms. Yingluck reminded the EP commission on Foreign Affairs that democracy in Thailand died not with the coup but the very day she was impeached and asked to show the accountability which goes with her frequent "I'm in charge, I picked my own cabinet using my own criteria, My government takes care of corruption and is good at responsibilities".

Edited May 19, 2016 by rubl