Artificial rainmaking conducted to prevent hailstorm in North

[webfact]

Artificial rainmaking conducted to prevent hailstorm in North

BANGKOK, 20 May 2016 (NNT) - The Department of Royal Rainmaking and Agricultural Aviation has conducted artificial rainmaking to prevent a hailstorm in eight northern provinces.

The rainmaking operation was collaboration between the department and the air force to help prevent damage caused by a hailstorm. It lasted from 21 March to 19 May 2016. Alpha Jets were deployed for 16 days in the operation which made the rain fall in the eight provinces, including Chiang Rai, Chiang Mai, Lamphun, Lampang, Phayo, Phrae, Sukhothai and Tak. More than 888,000 Rai of farmland benefitted from the operation.

In Phitsanulok province, night-long heavy rain flooded residential and agricultural areas in Nakhon Thai district, damaging many farms. The flooding subsided later on the same day.


-- NNT 2016-05-20

[Reigntax]

You have to laugh. The rainmaking and anti hail squad in full action.

No need to advise us that the hot air squad are in full operation.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Reigntax

[apetley]

So all those reports of hailstorms were untrue?

It stopped the blizzards too I hear.

[NongKhaiKid]

We can make it and we can break it !

Why does LoS ever have any weather problems ?

[Jeremy50]

I fail to see how a few planes flying around could affect a change in the weather over a large area. Why don't people question this, and ask for accurate scientific data?

[Thaddeus]

I fail to see how a few planes flying around could affect a change in the weather over a large area. Why don't people question this, and ask for accurate scientific data?

Please, don't ask for cold hard facts like scientific data, the thin veneer of apparent capability starts to peel off.

[ratcatcher]

Hail Ceaser.

[sanukjim]

Do you think that they even know how hail is formed in the atmosphere ? Do they rely think dropping Silver nitrate on the clouds will keep hail from forming ? WOW what century are they living in ?

Edited May 20, 2016 by sanukjim

[sanukjim]

I fail to see how a few planes flying around could affect a change in the weather over a large area. Why don't people question this, and ask for accurate scientific data?

When you keep the people ignorant with a false education system then you expect them to believe any crap you feed them and it usually works.

[jamesbrock]

This very interesting report, 'Critical Issues in Weather Modification Research,' by the Committee on the Status and Future Directions in U.S Weather Modification Research and Operations, National Research Council, (http://www.eenews.net/assets/2014/12/17/document_gw_01.pdf) concludes:

There is no scientifically credible evidence that hail can be suppressed. Lack of knowledge and ability to observe the details of a large hailstorm limits our ability to target observations or to design experiments that can detect induced changes. Insurance data showing reduced crop damage in areas of hail suppression activity may serve to motivate the operational programs, but they do not constitute scientific proof that hail fall can be reduced.

It continues:

The need to predict what would have happened had there been no weather modification (which is especially important in the context of attempts to modify hazardous weather) places an enormous burden on prediction. Predictive numerical models are required to accurately assess what would have occurred in the absence of any intervention, in order to assess both the magnitude and the potential consequences of the change. However, model development and physical understanding are interdependent, thus advances in both are slow and iterative.

For example, in recent large particle hygroscopic seeding trials involving warm-base convective clouds in Thailand and Texas, increases in rain were reported 3 to 12 hours after seeding was conducted, well beyond the time at which direct effects of seeding were expected and possibly outside the target area.

Edited May 20, 2016 by jamesbrock

[Winniedapu]

Amazing, Presumably the absence of hail will be 'proof' that the discredited rain-making 'technology' worked.

Fascinating. Delusional but fascinating..

Winnie

[JAG]

I fail to see how a few planes flying around could affect a change in the weather over a large area. Why don't people question this, and ask for accurate scientific data?

Read the post before yours, #6!

[Winniedapu]

I fail to see how a few planes flying around could affect a change in the weather over a large area. Why don't people question this, and ask for accurate scientific data?

Because of the one word in the dept's full title. as shrewdly noted by NongKhaiKid #6 in this thread.

Winnie

Edited May 20, 2016 by Winniedapu

[BuriramDevelopers]

oh boy..do i need to worrie , when the thai government starts adding chemicals to the air.?.....noooope sure they will do it all responsible, with great care to the consequences for health and long term damage overall.

Edited May 20, 2016 by BuriramDevelopers

[Suradit69]

I fail to see how a few planes flying around could affect a change in the weather over a large area. Why don't people question this, and ask for accurate scientific data?

When you keep the people ignorant with a false education system then you expect them to believe any crap you feed them and it usually works.

And then they retire in Thailand or come here to teach and spew the crap on TV.

[kaorop]

Soon they'll be seeding to stop the flooding!

Must be a nice little earner for those involved in this farce.

[Srikcir]

Do you think that they even know how hail is formed in the atmosphere ? Do they rely think dropping Silver nitrate on the clouds will keep hail from forming ? WOW what century are they living in ?

26^th century according to the Thai Buddhist calendar.

[cdnvic]

Please do not post any more conspiracy nonsense here, and be very careful how you describe a royally initiated project.

[waldroj]

As cdnvic correctly observes, for those who are not aware of the history of rain making in Thailand you need to do some Web searching on the subject. A good place to start is http://royalrainmaking.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/executive-summary-special-royal.html?m=1

[andrew55]

As cdnvic correctly observes, for those who are not aware of the history of rain making in Thailand you need to do some Web searching on the subject. A good place to start is http://royalrainmaking.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/executive-summary-special-royal.html?m=1

Thanks for the link.

Independent First World research on both cloud seeding and hailstorm prevention says these are both effective mainstream tools.

I'm disappointed that so many posters think Thais can't handle the science. They've been doing it a long time.

Search the web a little. I'm not confident to post links to non Thai sites regarding this gracious Royal Project.

I would love to hear from those on the ground in the areas concerned. Does it work?

[jamesbrock]

Independent First World research on both cloud seeding and hailstorm prevention says these are both effective mainstream tools.

I'm disappointed that so many posters think Thais can't handle the science. They've been doing it a long time.

Search the web a little. I'm not confident to post links to non Thai sites regarding this gracious Royal Project.

I would love to hear from those on the ground in the areas concerned. Does it work?

"Independent First World research on both cloud seeding and hailstorm prevention" actually concludes "There is no scientifically credible evidence that hail can be suppressed" You obviously missed my post where I linked to this independent first world research.

The report I linked to in that post goes on to say that, "since 1980 operational and research glaciogenic seeding experiments for rainfall enhancement based on the dynamic seeding concept have been conducted in Thailand. Exploratory analyses of these experiments have indicated precipitation increases on the scale of individual clouds or cells with varying levels of statistical support. The evidence for area-wide effects, although suggestive of precipitation increases, is weak and lacking in statistical support. No one has yet run a definitive area-seeding experiment.

More recently, according to a report presented at the 7th WMO Scientific Conference on Weather Modification in Chiang Mai in 1999, a randomised convective cloud-seeding experiment was conducted on mixed-phase clouds in Thailand, based on the dynamic seeding concept. The sample consisted of 62 units, and while the statistical results indicated increases in rainfall, the results were not statistically significant.

In recent hygroscopic seeding experiments conducted in Thailand and reported on in 2003, statistical analyses indicated increases in rainfall, but they appeared later in time than anticipated and did not conform to the original hypothesis. Dynamical effects, which were not included in the original hypotheses, were invoked to explain the results. The statistical analyses thus led to the development of new hypotheses to explain the experimental results.

The results of these, and many other international studies, have led the US National Research Council to go conclude:

The Committee concurs with the conclusion from Silverman (2001) that: “Based upon a rigorous examination of the accumulated results of the numerous experimental tests of the static-mode and dynamic- mode seeding concepts conducted over the past four decades, it has been found that they have not yet provided either the statistical or physical evidence required to establish their scientific validity.” This statement was made specifically in reference to glaciogenic seeding of convective clouds. With the possible exception of winter orographic clouds, it applies to virtually all efforts aimed at precipitation enhancement or hail suppression. This does not challenge the scientific basis of cloud-seeding concepts; rather, it is recognition of the lack of credible evidence that applying these concepts will lead to predictable, detectable, and verifiable results.

Thailand is one of many countries that has been attempting weather modification for many decades, but that does not mean the science is understood:

The science underlying weather modification is replete with uncertainties and knowledge gaps. These include fundamental microphysics, the effectiveness of seeding methodologies, and the verifiability of modification procedures. At the most basic level important questions remain regarding liquid and ice nuclei numbers and nucleation processes; the presence, concentration, and location of supercooled water in clouds; droplet and hydrometeor evolution processes; and the natural variability of all these factors.

Methodological uncertainties are related to the effectiveness of particular seeding materials, the dispersion of seeding materials in clouds, interactions between clouds and cells within the same cloud system, effects outside of seeded areas, separation of the seeding effects from natural effects, and the use of surrogate measurements such as radar reflectivity factors to observe cloud and precipitation changes.

If cloud seeding worked in places other than were it would have rained without intervention, then why is Thailand currently wracked by drought?

Of course people on the ground see effects in some—not all—instances, but as found by this independent first world scientific study, the effects often appear later in time, and outside the seeded area:

For example, in recent large particle hygroscopic seeding trials involving warm-base convective clouds in Thailand and Texas, increases in rain were reported 3 to 12 hours after seeding was conducted, well beyond the time at which direct effects of seeding were expected and possibly outside the target area.

Some argue that increasing precipitation in one region could reduce precipitation downwind (by “stealing” the atmospheric water vapor), or conversely, could enhance precipitation downwind (by increasing evaporation and transpiration and thus providing more moisture for clouds). Such claims, however, currently belong to the realm of speculation, as no quantitative studies of this issue have been conducted. This is a challenging issue to address, due to the current limitations of quantitative precipitation forecasting.

The need to predict what would have happened had there been no weather modification (which is especially important in the context of attempts to modify hazardous weather) places an enormous burden on prediction. Predictive numerical models are required to accurately assess what would have occurred in the absence of any intervention, in order to assess both the magnitude and the potential consequences of the change. However, model development and physical understanding are interdependent, thus advances in both are slow and iterative.

Finally, it should be noted that one can patent anything claiming it can do anything that one likes, as long as no one else has made the same claims before. There is zero requirement for an idea to be even possible, let alone demonstrate predictable, detectable, and verifiable results in order for a patent to be granted.

[sanukjim]

oh boy..do i need to worrie , when the thai government starts adding chemicals to the air.?.....noooope sure they will do it all responsible, with great care to the consequences for health and long term damage ove

The US in the 1950s started "seeding" the clouds with Silvernitrate during the 7 year drought in the Southwestern US with several nations flowering suite.About 20 years ago Thailand added a few more chemicals to the mixture and patented it locally as The Kings invention.

[seedy]

Posts Discussing Moderation Removed.

Forum Rules here -

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[Thaddeus]

I fail to see how a few planes flying around could affect a change in the weather over a large area. Why don't people question this, and ask for accurate scientific data?

When you keep the people ignorant with a false education system then you expect them to believe any crap you feed them and it usually works.

And then they retire in Thailand or come here to teach and spew the crap on TV.

A little drop in the home grown ocean.

[DrTuner]

I'd be more worried of poorly maintained aircrafts falling down than hail.