Netanyahu reshuffle means Israel being taken over by ‘extremists’

[Jingthing]

not always but they included former terrorists like Begin and extremists like Ariel Scheinermann (aka Ariel Sharon). in my view Golda Meir was also an extremist but she did what had to be done to succeed.

We all know about Begin. DUDE -- we really don't need to bring up the origin story of Israel on every single Israel related thread, do we know? You think that's a big hate on Israel score, oh Begin was a terrorist and PM and somehow that justifies Palestinian terrorism TODAY, but it's history, and you tried to push a really evil lie ... that EVERY Israel government has ALWAYS been represented by the kind of rhetoric (head chops) that Liberman represents. I see you know now you were wrong ... correct ... NOT ALWAYS. Thank you.

[Jingthing]

Israel has always been run by extremists.

Israel demonization arrives on schedule.

Sometimes you seem quite reasonable, and then you go screaming "demonization" again, like so many times before. You do know that if you cry "wolf" too many times, no one's going to hear or believe you any more, don't you?

Plenty of posters on this forum are closed minded, have no interest in any kind of reasonable discussion, and in their eyes Israel is lily-white, completely innocent and not to blame in any way in this conflict. Utter one word of criticism and you're automatically branded a hater or an anti-semite by these people.

True, there may be some haters or even anti-semites on this forum, but I think most posters who criticize Israel are genuinely concerned that Israel is shooting itself in the foot and is just making things worse and worse. No hate, no anti-semitism, no demonization, just genuine concern.

That wasn't a reasonable criticism. It was filthy lie.

It was a lie intended to foment hate towards Israel. Israel has NOT always been run by extremists like Liberman. I get it, to Israel demonizers, the very existence of Israel is extremist. Be honest and admit that. Thank you.

[ilostmypassword]

Not that it would be newsworthy if ANY other country in the Middle East was in supposed danger of being taken over by extremists, indeed the contrary would apply.

P.s it is comical how badly the talking heads are misunderstanding what's going on in the Middle East. Peace may be poised to break out, which would of course be a nightmare for some of our esteemed members.

I don't see how they can sell it to their people whom they still are indoctrinating with anti-semitic slurs in the schools and the mosques. I could see such a move culminating with something like Al-Qaeda ruling. Especially considering that economic hard times are about to hit Saudi Arabia very hard.

[JingerBen]

Avigdor Lieberman's pipedreams of ethnic cleansing are futile. Israel is on a collision course with acceptable global political norms. They cannot continue repressing in the most atrocious ways the non Jewish majority of the population in historic Palestine, the area Israel now completely controls, with impugnity. It is already de facto apartheid.

There will be no more large scale aliyahs while such extreme right wing policies are in force. Why would American Jewry and others from elsewhere migrate to Israel when they are doing very nicely practising their faith and living secure prosperous peaceful fully integrated lives in the USA and other countries. Thus Israeli Jews will inevitably become an embarrassing minority ruling regime, just like other colonial enterprises doomed to failure, when the world finally ostracizes them, if the Israeli electorate doesn't come to its senses sooner.

It is not BDS nor probably EU sanctions, but it is liberal democratically minded young American Jewry who will eventually see through the monster that their forebears have created. And good riddance to xenophobic Lieberman, Netanyahu, and the whole racist supremacist Zionist regime.

Exceptionally good post that sums up this topic from beginning to end.

An immense amount of effort is being expended to push an agenda, but the simple truth demolishes it every time.

Thanks for that.

[Thorgal]

There are mainly 2 reasons why Mosh Ya'alon wanted to quit from his Defense minister position.

https://www.rt.com/news/343713-netanyahu-lieberman-defense-reaction/

"The controversial decision to appoint Lieberman to the post of defense chief was preceded by a row between Netanyahu and Ya’alon, who backed the prosecution of Elor Azaria, an Israeli soldier who shot an unarmed Palestinian attacker back in March. In contrast, Netanyahu personally expressed support for the family of the soldier, who is now on trial for manslaughter."

"The rift deepened after Ya’alon backed Major General Yair Golan, who drew parallels between tendencies in Nazi Germany and present day Israel in a speech devoted to Holocaust Remembrance Day."

Still not clear why Netanyahu called in Avigdor Lieberman with no military experience at all.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Thorgal

[Dumbastheycome]

Strategies are most often pre considered and often not by those who are at the forefront.

The clock is running. Next move?

[Naam]

not always but they included former terrorists like Begin and extremists like Ariel Scheinermann (aka Ariel Sharon). in my view Golda Meir was also an extremist but she did what had to be done to succeed.

We all know about Begin. DUDE -- we really don't need to bring up the origin story of Israel on every single Israel related thread, do we know? You think that's a big hate on Israel score, oh Begin was a terrorist and PM and somehow that justifies Palestinian terrorism TODAY, but it's history, and you tried to push a really evil lie ... that EVERY Israel government has ALWAYS been represented by the kind of rhetoric (head chops) that Liberman represents. I see you know now you were wrong ... correct ... NOT ALWAYS. Thank you.

cool down JT, nobody buys your ridiculous bla-bla attacks meant to divert from facts and nobody in this thread justified Palestinian terrorism.

p.s. and please adopt the correct spelling of Lieberman's name.

[Johpa]

Israel has always been run by extremists.

Not true. The original Labor Party (think Meir and Eban) made their mistakes, such as allowing the first Orthodox settlements in the territories, but they were not extremists and many were capable of dialog with their neighbors in Arabic.

I believe it has a lot to do with an increase in bitter and twisted ex military personnel, with a personal axe to grind at the helm . Especially those in the higher echelons of Israel's political apparatus. Current leader included.

The problem is the political influence upon who is selected for the courses for the higher ranks in the military. I would argue that Begin and Sharon were not able to go into Lebanon (1982) until their selections were in control of most brigades and above. And then this flows back into politics where military prowess is often mistaken, and substituted as political prowess.

There will be no more large scale aliyahs while such extreme right wing policies are in force. Why would American Jewry and others from elsewhere migrate to Israel when they are doing very nicely practising their faith and living secure prosperous peaceful fully integrated lives in the USA and other countries.

One of the few larger scale recent aliyahs have been the extreme right wing orthodox coming out of New York. The larger non-orthodox American Jewish communities are very divided over current Israeli politics and many are in open opposition and trend more towards the position of Gideon Levy (search on Youtube) the Ha'Aretz correspondent who agrees that, in the territories, one sees an apartheid system set up to isolate two communities.

[MisterTee]

Israel has always been run by extremists.

Not true. The original Labor Party (think Meir and Eban) made their mistakes, such as allowing the first Orthodox settlements in the territories, but they were not extremists and many were capable of dialog with their neighbors in Arabic.

I believe it has a lot to do with an increase in bitter and twisted ex military personnel, with a personal axe to grind at the helm . Especially those in the higher echelons of Israel's political apparatus. Current leader included.

The problem is the political influence upon who is selected for the courses for the higher ranks in the military. I would argue that Begin and Sharon were not able to go into Lebanon (1982) until their selections were in control of most brigades and above. And then this flows back into politics where military prowess is often mistaken, and substituted as political prowess.

There will be no more large scale aliyahs while such extreme right wing policies are in force. Why would American Jewry and others from elsewhere migrate to Israel when they are doing very nicely practising their faith and living secure prosperous peaceful fully integrated lives in the USA and other countries.

One of the few larger scale recent aliyahs have been the extreme right wing orthodox coming out of New York. The larger non-orthodox American Jewish communities are very divided over current Israeli politics and many are in open opposition and trend more towards the position of Gideon Levy (search on Youtube) the Ha'Aretz correspondent who agrees that, in the territories, one sees an apartheid system set up to isolate two communities.

Take a look at the Israeli settlements in the West Bank connected by Israeli-only roads and the Palestinian bantustans isolated by military checkpoints and you would have to be blind not to see apartheid with a capital "A".

[Jingthing]

not always but they included former terrorists like Begin and extremists like Ariel Scheinermann (aka Ariel Sharon). in my view Golda Meir was also an extremist but she did what had to be done to succeed.

We all know about Begin. DUDE -- we really don't need to bring up the origin story of Israel on every single Israel related thread, do we know? You think that's a big hate on Israel score, oh Begin was a terrorist and PM and somehow that justifies Palestinian terrorism TODAY, but it's history, and you tried to push a really evil lie ... that EVERY Israel government has ALWAYS been represented by the kind of rhetoric (head chops) that Liberman represents. I see you know now you were wrong ... correct ... NOT ALWAYS. Thank you.

cool down JT, nobody buys your ridiculous bla-bla attacks meant to divert from facts and nobody in this thread justified Palestinian terrorism.

p.s. and please adopt the correct spelling of Lieberman's name.

So be it, if being the SPELLING POLICE is the level of your response to being called out for a disgusting LIE about the history of Israel. Facts? You can't back up your lie with facts ... only personal attacks. Bla bla bla indeed.

BTW ... I think I'll take how the ISRAELI press usually spells the man's name and his OWN facebook page over the correction of Naam:

https://www.facebook.com/AvigdorLiberman

I will continue to respect the spelling that LIBERMAN uses, even if I don't respect the man's politics.

[Jingthing]

Take a look at the Israeli settlements in the West Bank connected by Israeli-only roads and the Palestinian bantustans isolated by military checkpoints and you would have to be blind not to see apartheid with a capital "A".

The non-Arabic, non-Hebrew word "bantustan" obviously used for maximum Israel demonization propaganda purposes to push the lie that Israel is equivalent to apartheid era South Africa.

[ilostmypassword]

Take a look at the Israeli settlements in the West Bank connected by Israeli-only roads and the Palestinian bantustans isolated by military checkpoints and you would have to be blind not to see apartheid with a capital "A".

The non-Arabic, non-Hebrew word "bantustan" obviously used for maximum Israel demonization propaganda purposes to push the lie that Israel is equivalent to apartheid era South Africa.

I wonder how many people still know what it means to say "you sound like a broken record." Israeli demonization, Israeli demonization and sometimes demonization of Israel. Can't you come up with something new? Such a cliché. Yawn. Given that MisterTee was expanding on a comment made about Gideon Levy the Haaretz correspondent who likened the settlement situation in the West Bank to apartheid, it's clear that the use of Bantustan was entirely appropriate. It's also clear. sadly, why you chose not to include the post about Gideon Levy and his use of the A word in your reply. Nice try.

Edited May 21, 2016 by ilostmypassword

[Morch]

Yeah, I don't believe there will be any actual follow through on the more toxic aspects of his quotes over the years, but still, someone like that in power does do harm to Israel's already very damaged international image. I get it that Israelis mostly don't really care. But that doesn't mean it isn't a problem. This kind of thing drives more American Jews, especially young ones, away from relating to Israel and harder to be advocates. I reckon he is probably competent but he can't take back those quotes.

I wouldn't be too sure about no "actual follow through". The current coalition agreement will force him to lay off the Jewish Orthodox, and the left side of the political map is already back to the usual bickering, backstabbing and infighting. With regard to the Palestinians - it remains to be seen if and how things will change relative to Yaalon's terms in office. Lieberman does talk the talk, but effecting a general change of policy is easier said than done. If I had to venture a guess - harsher words toward the Palestinian Authority, and perhaps greater risk of escalation with regard to the Hamas in the Gaza Strip. On the other hand, he is one of the (relatively) few politicians on Israel's right which acknowledges demographic issues. As such, he seems to support a version of the two-state solution.

The last bit leads to those most likely to catch his attention, Israel's Arab citizens. With the current government and coalition being what they are, it will not be a huge surprise if very problematic legal initiatives will not be taken (and some, conveniently stuck in bureaucratic pipes, given a new push). How far will things go is early to tell, but it considering political and public factors, definitely worrisome.

Lieberman already served as Israel's Minister of Foreign Affairs, with no irrevocable damage done by his term in office. While I'd agree that his appointment, and the current government's views in general, may alienate potential supporters (especially Jews) in Western countries, it is doubtful that the effect is similar on all diplomatic fronts.

As for being "probably competent", doubt if there's much to judge him by. Can't offhand recall major policies which were success stories related to his various ministerial positions. He does seem to be awfully competent (allegedly....) at making money involving dodgy business dealings. Some of his party members are currently under various investigations related to corruption. No relevant military experience to speak of.

[Morch]

Thorgal and GeorgesAbitbol are the new additions to the older crop of "Israel lovers" who profess to know everything

about politics in Israel and the middle east, so much so that they find it ok to use foul language while showing

their ignorance on the subject, so much so that it's a waste of breath to explain how wrong they're....

I probably know more than you on the subject. But i understand your lack of knowledge on the subject irritates you.. I am not the only one saying that, even israeli newspapers tell it : Lieberman is a far right ex bouncer who wants to retake the west bank, lives in a settlement and support them.. he is a dumb politician and even some members of the Likoud ate worried... but you will probably tell me i am a jew hater and avoid any constructive answer on the subject...

"...who wants to retake the west bank,..."

Not really. One of his main concerns is with maintaining a Jewish majority in Israel. Adding the West Bank to the mix is counter-productive in this regard. Lieberman does support territorial exchanges (which will amount to population exchanges), facilitating partition between the two sides.

"...he is a dumb politician..."

He might hold despicable ideas, and might not be a true statesman, but as a politician - doing pretty well for himself and his views.

[Morch]

The appointment of Avigdor Lieberman as Minister of Defense confirms the recent warning by Maj Gen Yair Golan.

Israelis have a self-protective habit: when confronted with inconvenient truths, they evade its essence and deal with a secondary, unimportant aspect. Of all the dozens and dozens of reactions in the written press, on TV and on political platforms, almost none confronted the general's painful contention.

Golan was accused of comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Nothing of the sort. A careful reading of his text shows that he compared developments in Israel to the events that led to disintegration of the Weimar Republic. And that is a valid comparison.

Things happening in Israel, especially since the last election, bear a frightening similarity to those events. True, the process is quite different. German fascism arose from the humiliation of surrender in WWI, the occupation of the Ruhr by France and Belgium from 1923-25, the terrible economic crisis of 1929, the misery of millions unemployed. Israel is victorious in its frequent military actions, the overwhelming majority of Israelis live comfortable lives. The dangers threatening them are of a different nature. They stem from their victories, not their defeats.

Indeed, the differences between Israel today and Germany then are far greater than the similarities. But those similarities do exist, and the general was right to point them out. Discrimination against Palestinians in practically all spheres of life can be compared to the treatment of the Jews in the first phase of Nazi Germany.

It seems that Golan is not only a courageous officer, but a prophet, too. The inclusion of Lieberman's party in the government coalition confirms Golan's blackest fears. This is another fatal blow to the Israeli democracy.

Israeli reactions to criticism are not unique, most nations do not embrace fundamental criticism without resistance. This is somewhat different nowadays with regard to Western countries, which seem to be going through a self-flagellation period, mostly the product of certain political doctrines and schools of thought. For those wishing an example closer to topic, most threads dealing with the less endearing aspects related to the Palestinians are a good start.

As opposed to the above, there were actually posts addressing the essence of Golan's speech. There were also articles, columns and opinions discussing it on various Israeli media outlets. I believe some were even linked on the relevant topic. Once again, as opposed to the above, a lot of the "debate" (certainly on TVF, and also elsewhere) revolved around critics taking Golan's speech and making into something else, more in line with agendas pushed. Most of what the poster regards as not dealing with the "essence", was in fact dealing with misrepresentations of Golan's speech.

As for the learned comparison suggested, a main difference glossed over would be between the role played by German Jews (or Jews in general) with regard to Germany, and the role played by Palestinians (or Arabs in general) with regard to Israel. To be clear, talking about direct conflict here.

On one thing, at least, we are in agreement - not a good day for democracy in Israel.

[Johnpound46]

Israel has always been run by extremists.

Israel demonization arrives on schedule.

Sometimes you seem quite reasonable, and then you go screaming "demonization" again, like so many times before. You do know that if you cry "wolf" too many times, no one's going to hear or believe you any more, don't you?

Plenty of posters on this forum are closed minded, have no interest in any kind of reasonable discussion, and in their eyes Israel is lily-white, completely innocent and not to blame in any way in this conflict. Utter one word of criticism and you're automatically branded a hater or an anti-semite by these people.

True, there may be some haters or even anti-semites on this forum, but I think most posters who criticize Israel are genuinely concerned that Israel is shooting itself in the foot and is just making things worse and worse. No hate, no anti-semitism, no demonization, just genuine concern.

That wasn't a reasonable criticism. It was filthy lie.

It was a lie intended to foment hate towards Israel. Israel has NOT always been run by extremists like Liberman. I get it, to Israel demonizers, the very existence of Israel is extremist. Be honest and admit that. Thank you.

Wow, you really think that you know me and my apparent hatred for Israel. I will admit that Israel has not always been run by extremists and that some posters here are trying to goad you, but I draw the line at being accused by you to be an Israel demonizer. Why do you try so hard to paint all criticizers with the same brush? Can you not even consider the idea that someone is actually worried about what is going on there, and that someone might think that Israel's role in all that is sometimes at least somewhat questionable? Is it really so diificult for you to understand that I want nothing more for Israel and its people to thrive, but at the same time have questions about the way the country is being run?

I get it, Israel is surrounded by bloodthirsty enemies, and I wish I knew what could be done to solve it. But that doesn't mean that Israel can do whatever it wants and violate human rights left and right, can you at least get that into your thick skull?

[Jingthing]

Wow, you really think that you know me and my apparent hatred for Israel. I will admit that Israel has not always been run by extremists and that some posters here are trying to goad you, but I draw the line at being accused by you to be an Israel demonizer. Why do you try so hard to paint all criticizers with the same brush? Can you not even consider the idea that someone is actually worried about what is going on there, and that someone might think that Israel's role in all that is sometimes at least somewhat questionable? Is it really so diificult for you to understand that I want nothing more for Israel and its people to thrive, but at the same time have questions about the way the country is being run?

I get it, Israel is surrounded by bloodthirsty enemies, and I wish I knew what could be done to solve it. But that doesn't mean that Israel can do whatever it wants and violate human rights left and right, can you at least get that into your thick skull?

Dude, perhaps read more carefully. I accused you personally of NOTHING. Thus, I have no response to your bizarre, personally baiting post. Thick skull, indeed.

BTW, I definitely don't know you and based on your post, can't say I'm looking forward to it.

Cheers.

[Jingthing]

Bibi-Liberman government accused of fascism by former PM Barak:

Barak seemed to be echoing Ya'alon in his remarks, saying: "Extremist elements have taken over the State of Israel."

"The outgoing defense minister, Moshe Ya'alon, was the victim of a purge," Barak said. "In the initial months, Liberman will give off the impression that he is moderate. Sooner or later, however, we will see the price we have to pay."

Barak said that he has encountered on his travels around the world many "world leaders" and "leading shapers of public opinion" who "do not believe the Israeli government [and its stated desire for peace]."

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Netanyahu-Liberman-government-showing-signs-of-fascism-Ehud-Barak-says-454557

I agree it's obvious the current Israeli government isn't seeking peace, but either are the Palestinians.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Jingthing

[Johnpound46]

Wow, you really think that you know me and my apparent hatred for Israel. I will admit that Israel has not always been run by extremists and that some posters here are trying to goad you, but I draw the line at being accused by you to be an Israel demonizer. Why do you try so hard to paint all criticizers with the same brush? Can you not even consider the idea that someone is actually worried about what is going on there, and that someone might think that Israel's role in all that is sometimes at least somewhat questionable? Is it really so diificult for you to understand that I want nothing more for Israel and its people to thrive, but at the same time have questions about the way the country is being run?

I get it, Israel is surrounded by bloodthirsty enemies, and I wish I knew what could be done to solve it. But that doesn't mean that Israel can do whatever it wants and violate human rights left and right, can you at least get that into your thick skull?

Dude, perhaps read more carefully. I accused you personally of NOTHING. Thus, I have no response to your bizarre, personally baiting post. Thick skull, indeed.

BTW, I definitely don't know you and based on your post, can't say I'm looking forward to it.

Cheers.

Likewise, and cheers to you to.

[Naam]

Take a look at the Israeli settlements in the West Bank connected by Israeli-only roads and the Palestinian bantustans isolated by military checkpoints and you would have to be blind not to see apartheid with a capital "A".

The non-Arabic, non-Hebrew word "bantustan" obviously used for maximum Israel demonization propaganda purposes to push the lie that Israel is equivalent to apartheid era South Africa.

calling a personal opinion a "lie" is ridiculous. but reading your opinions in this forum, in my case nearly a decade, demonstrated clearly that in between rational comments you like to play the unjustified accusation card to silence those who's justified personal opinions differ from yours.

let me tell you a secret... it does not work!

[coma]

I think it is a good move. Nothing like a little short term pain for long term gain so to speak. In the long term it is sure to alienate this administration even further with the plethora of Western democracies that are already voicing their concerns with Israel's ongoing oppression of Palestine. Go ahead Benjamin.

Lieberman or no Lieberman there are moves afoot which will culminate in peace between Israel and her Arab neighbors, .

http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Arab-governments-to-Netanyahu-Lets-talk-about-the-Saudi-peace-initiative-454559

Unfortunately I don't share your optimism. I can't see that happening whilst people like Lieberman and Netanyahu are calling the shots. They may be very good at sounding the peace drum, as most Israeli politicians and political commentators are. But when push comes to shove, when it is time to stop the settlements, to reprimand illegal IDF killing of innocent civilians to give back Palestinian land that was illegally obtained etc etc, , then they fail miserably.

Same old story with these guys. The old line of "yes we want peace with our Arab neighbours. But we are not going to make the concessions required to achieve it". Israeli political implosion may be the only road that will lead to peace. And that will take a long long time.

[hugh2121]

How long has Israel been a country?

How long has Palestine been a country?

Questions due to a very old map in a book I'm reading at the moment. Unfortunately the map is not dated but...it clearly shows Israel and it's borders. There is no Palestine marked.

[hugh2121]

I think it is a good move. Nothing like a little short term pain for long term gain so to speak. In the long term it is sure to alienate this administration even further with the plethora of Western democracies that are already voicing their concerns with Israel's ongoing oppression of Palestine. Go ahead Benjamin.

Lieberman or no Lieberman there are moves afoot which will culminate in peace between Israel and her Arab neighbors, .

http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Arab-governments-to-Netanyahu-Lets-talk-about-the-Saudi-peace-initiative-454559

Unfortunately I don't share your optimism. I can't see that happening whilst people like Lieberman and Netanyahu are calling the shots. They may be very good at sounding the peace drum, as most Israeli politicians and political commentators are. But when push comes to shove, when it is time to stop the settlements, to reprimand illegal IDF killing of innocent civilians to give back Palestinian land that was illegally obtained etc etc, , then they fail miserably.

Same old story with these guys. The old line of "yes we want peace with our Arab neighbours. But we are not going to make the concessions required to achieve it". Israeli political implosion may be the only road that will lead to peace. And that will take a long long time.

" to reprimand illegal IDF killing of innocent civilians"

Not to mention illegal killing and attempted murder of Israelis by these "innocent civilians". Take off the blinkers Coma, it's not Israelis murdering innocent civilians all around the world including in Israel. I read recently that Hezbollah have indicated that they intend to make the ground run red with the blood of Israeli children. How can you defend such an attitude? How can you criticise putting these vermin down?

[Morch]

The western democracies you mention are rapidly losing any leverage they had with Israel. Lieberman or no Lieberman there are moves afoot which will culminate in peace between Israel and her Arab neighbors, I guess western leftists will then miraculously start taking an interest in their human rights records.

http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Arab-governments-to-Netanyahu-Lets-talk-about-the-Saudi-peace-initiative-454559

And here's the relevant bit to the OP, taken from the link above:

Israel, instead, experienced a political earthquake in the wake of the news that Avigdor Liberman, the hawkish former foreign minister from the right-wing Yisrael Beytenu faction, would assume the role of defense minister. The stunning development left observers skeptical that the Israeli government was eager to advance diplomatic negotiations with the Palestinians and other Arab states.

It is very doubtful that a regional peace agreement would be reached without significant advances between Israel and the Palestinians.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Morch

[hugh2121]

http://www.targetofopportunity.com/palestinian_truth.htm

[Morch]

Avigdor Lieberman's pipedreams of ethnic cleansing are futile. Israel is on a collision course with acceptable global political norms. They cannot continue repressing in the most atrocious ways the non Jewish majority of the population in historic Palestine, the area Israel now completely controls, with impugnity. It is already de facto apartheid.

There will be no more large scale aliyahs while such extreme right wing policies are in force. Why would American Jewry and others from elsewhere migrate to Israel when they are doing very nicely practising their faith and living secure prosperous peaceful fully integrated lives in the USA and other countries. Thus Israeli Jews will inevitably become an embarrassing minority ruling regime, just like other colonial enterprises doomed to failure, when the world finally ostracizes them, if the Israeli electorate doesn't come to its senses sooner.

It is not BDS nor probably EU sanctions, but it is liberal democratically minded young American Jewry who will eventually see through the monster that their forebears have created. And good riddance to xenophobic Lieberman, Netanyahu, and the whole racist supremacist Zionist regime.

Care to elaborate on Lieberman's "pipedreamss of ethnic cleansing"? Lieberman's views are disturbing, even despicable to some, but not quite what you allude to. If anything, he is one of the few Israeli politicians addressing the demographic issues directly, even if his solutions are questionable.

As for your idyllic painting of the Jews assured future in other countries, there are enough historical precedents to take a more cautious view.

[Morch]

The western democracies you mention are rapidly losing any leverage they had with Israel. Lieberman or no Lieberman there are moves afoot which will culminate in peace between Israel and her Arab neighbors, I guess western leftists will then miraculously start taking an interest in their human rights records.

http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Arab-governments-to-Netanyahu-Lets-talk-about-the-Saudi-peace-initiative-454559

You mean the corrupt autocratic aristocratic and military Arab dictatorships that are Zionism's natural bedfellows. Well, they are destined to the trashcan of history eventually too.

Somehow, the very same "corrupt autocratic aristocratic and military Arab dictatorships" did not pose much of an issue on all the many occasions in which you criticized Israel for not accepting the Arab Peace Initiative.

As it was pointed on almost each of these references, some of the relevant parties are no longer relevant. Now it seems even those still around and halfway willing are "destined to the trashcan of history".

Got to love the acrobatics.

[wabothai]

I wonder what nethanyahu's secret agenda is by this appointment.

[Morch]

That's total BS. Israel's top government officials have not always included characters like Liberman. I get it to the Israel demonization agenda Israel should have never existed. Tough latkes.

>Israel should have never existed.

​Got it in one!

But it does exist. There's no turning back the clock. So they have to find peaceful ways of co-existing with their neighbors. And Lieberman isn't one of them.

Israel does have long standing peace agreements with both Egypt and Jordan. And despite the usual attempts to present things otherwise, peace requires two to tango. There isn't much by way of willingness on Israel's side, and the same is true for the three remaining parties. That's without getting into the the issue of all three not having a unified leadership capable of playing a meaningful role.

As for the first remark, most of your posts are directed at the eventual demise of Israel as Israel, Not quite turning back the clock, but altering reality altogether.

[Morch]

Israel has always been run by extremists.

Israel demonization arrives on schedule.

Sometimes you seem quite reasonable, and then you go screaming "demonization" again, like so many times before. You do know that if you cry "wolf" too many times, no one's going to hear or believe you any more, don't you?

Plenty of posters on this forum are closed minded, have no interest in any kind of reasonable discussion, and in their eyes Israel is lily-white, completely innocent and not to blame in any way in this conflict. Utter one word of criticism and you're automatically branded a hater or an anti-semite by these people.

True, there may be some haters or even anti-semites on this forum, but I think most posters who criticize Israel are genuinely concerned that Israel is shooting itself in the foot and is just making things worse and worse. No hate, no anti-semitism, no demonization, just genuine concern.

While "cry wolf" is a fair comment, one got to wonder if the same topics are read and the same posters are referred to. Kinda amusing when considering the "like" clickers on your post and their posting histories. But then, perhaps the "genuine concern" expressed by statements such as "Israel has always been run by extremists" (at which JT's post was directed) is not clear enough?