Lawyers appeal against death sentences over murder of British tourists in Thailand

[Moonsterk]

Hannah Witheridge's sister Laura has made it quite clear that she thinks the B2 are innocent.

I would hope that we do have all the available evidence in the public domain, and that it was presented in open court! If the B2 were convicted on secret evidence not presented in open court for cross-examination, then there has been a gross travesty of justice. But I doubt that's the case: the judges made it clear that they convicted on the discredited DNA evidence.

IMO Laura Witheridge has been handled and manipulated like so many others- by a couple of women who are so emotionally invested in this case their credibilty is zilcho. One issues false DNA memes that then get an audience of thousands.

One so called investigatory FB page altered the nose on the CCTV footage of running man to make it look like the younger Tuvichien son- and then that was spread to groups with hundreds of thousands of followers.

Several FB " Justice..." groups, community pages and even a well known tabloid blogger's personal FB page (which is used as a news page) do not allow any contrary discussion on this topic- you either follow the insinuation, assumptions and outright lies, or you are banned from participating.

Personal attacks, threats, constant ad hominem, even web sites are erected to intimidate those of us who do not believe they are innocent. One man had his home put up on a map with a false accusation- to invite violence and harassment toward him.

That alone is evidence there is a real need to shut people up- why is that? Is there a truth that needs to be buried?

"...still failing to understand its up to police what they put in there case to get a conviction."

So...what you are saying is...if they tested the clothes and came up with some DNA- samples, which 100% incriminate other people than the B2...and they simply choose to ignore that...you would be fine with that?

Everybody should be fine with that and ask no further questions?

Astonishing standpoint, to say the least!

The whole case has been built around avoiding, "losing", or "using up" anything that would implicate the original suspects.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/63714

The police have arrested a suspect in the murder of two British tourists in Koh Tao and are still hunting for a second suspect who has escaped into Bangkok.

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon. He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao. He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

The prosecution and RTP are, of course, correct in saying that certain CCTV video records are not relevant to the case against the Burmese lads.

This has been refuted a least 20 times on the various threads. Montiwat was questioned his DNA sample taken, he was NEVER "arrested" that article you post from Sept 23 was corrected the very next day Sept 24 to this...

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/63857

Police interrogated Woraphan Toovichien, 49, a village headman and owner of AC Bar which is located near the murder scene, and his brother, Montriwat Toovichien, owner of In Touch resort and caretaker of AC Bar.

Both gave good cooperation to the police and they denied they had any connection.

DNA samples of the two brothers were collecting for testing and were later proved to not match with DNA collected from the scene and the victim’s body.

And the bit you add in about " used up." DNA evidence - It was a miscommunication seized on as " evidence" the police were liars. I'd say about 80% of what I've read here on on the other threads exonerating the convicted is miscommunication and elaborations gleaned off those very same FB pages- quite the study in social media as a propagator of propaganda.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Moonsterk

[rockingrobin]

Hannah Witheridge's sister Laura has made it quite clear that she thinks the B2 are innocent.

I would hope that we do have all the available evidence in the public domain, and that it was presented in open court! If the B2 were convicted on secret evidence not presented in open court for cross-examination, then there has been a gross travesty of justice. But I doubt that's the case: the judges made it clear that they convicted on the discredited DNA evidence.

IMO Laura Witheridge has been handled and manipulated like so many others- by a couple of women who are so emotionally invested in this case their credibilty is zilcho. One issues false DNA memes that then get an audience of thousands.

One so called investigatory FB page altered the nose on the CCTV footage of running man to make it look like the younger Tuvichien son- and then that was spread to groups with hundreds of thousands of followers.

Several FB " Justice..." groups, community pages and even a well known tabloid blogger's personal FB page (which is used as a news page) do not allow any contrary discussion on this topic- you either follow the insinuation, assumptions and outright lies, or you are banned from participating.

Personal attacks, threats, constant ad hominem, even web sites are erected to intimidate those of us who do not believe they are innocent. One man had his home put up on a map with a false accusation- to invite violence and harassment toward him.

That alone is evidence there is a real need to shut people up- why is that? Is there a truth that needs to be buried?

"...still failing to understand its up to police what they put in there case to get a conviction."

So...what you are saying is...if they tested the clothes and came up with some DNA- samples, which 100% incriminate other people than the B2...and they simply choose to ignore that...you would be fine with that?

Everybody should be fine with that and ask no further questions?

Astonishing standpoint, to say the least!

The whole case has been built around avoiding, "losing", or "using up" anything that would implicate the original suspects.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/63714

The police have arrested a suspect in the murder of two British tourists in Koh Tao and are still hunting for a second suspect who has escaped into Bangkok.

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon. He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao. He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

The prosecution and RTP are, of course, correct in saying that certain CCTV video records are not relevant to the case against the Burmese lads.

This has been refuted a least 20 times on the various threads. Montiwat was questioned his DNA sample taken, he was NEVER "arrested" that article you post from Sept 23 was corrected the very next day Sept 24 to this...

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/63857

Police interrogated Woraphan Toovichien, 49, a village headman and owner of AC Bar which is located near the murder scene, and his brother, Montriwat Toovichien, owner of In Touch resort and caretaker of AC Bar.

Both gave good cooperation to the police and they denied they had any connection.

DNA samples of the two brothers were collecting for testing and were later proved to not match with DNA collected from the scene and the victim’s body.

And the bit you add in about " used up." DNA evidence - It was a miscommunication seized on as " evidence" the police were liars. I'd say about 80% of what I've read here on on the other threads exonerating the convicted is miscommunication and elaborations gleaned off those very same FB pages- quite the study in social media as a propagator of propaganda.

Moonsterk

It is not clear from the articles linked when Mon provided his DNA ,

23rd September Mon is a suspect, no mention in the article about dna

24th September DNA samples of the two brothers were collecting for testing and were later proved to not match with DNA collected from the scene and the victim’s body

Edit

The BP stating Mon was allowed to leave at 1:50 after giving a dna sample

Edited May 24, 2016 by rockingrobin

[dieseldave1951]

All very sad, I am not competent to comment on the rights and wrongs, but I do like and prefer the jury system that we have in the UK

But then look at the farce in the USA on the OJ Simpson trial

Also I prefer 10 guilty to be saved the death sentence, just in case the court gets it wrong, and in the UK this has happened many times

i think the reason the Thais do not use the jury system stems back to the quality of schooling in the past

[Geoffggi]

Unfortunately it appears to be a waste of time making any kind of comments as the "Loosing Face" or putting the blame where it should be appears to fall on deaf ears, it appears some people are above the law or alternatively have the police in their pockets; either way too many people are involved in the cover-up for true justice to prevail in this case.

I honestly hope that these two wrongly accused have the opportunity to clear their names, possibly a little too much to hope the guilty are punished!!!!!

[sjaak327]

Hmm, you must be privy to information the rest of us aren't. I am dying to hear what piece of evidence the prosecution brought to table which establishes quilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I have not see any such evidence.

And just what evidence have you seen to become such an expert on the matter. As nothing has been released by the court then all anyone is able to comment on is what has been reported and what has been reported appears to be less than credible and those reporting clearly have an agenda. And why do you think you or anyone else on here will ever get to see any of the evidence presented.

The court's findings can be seen and challenged by the defense's legal team, not by anyone on here so your little wish of dying to hear what evidence the prosecution is totally futile. After reading the postings over 4 pages it's just the same old arguments, nothing new has been added so here we go again, "I l know better, no you don't I do". Then the name calling starts and all we end up with is a total nothing but the bagging and slinging off at others. Becomes very monotonous after awhile.

I doubt anyone is holding a gun to your head and forces you to read this thread, so if it becomes boring for you to read, I would like to suggest not reading the thread ? Seems like a logical solution to your complaint.

If you would have read the two sentences of my post, you would know that I claim not to have seen any evidence that beyond a reasonable doubt, leads to the conclusion they did in fact murder the two victims.

Maybe your first paragraph already highlights the problem of this case, and how the trial was anything but fair. Apparently the public cannot know the full extend of the evidence, and must therefore rely on the Thai justice system doing an honest job. Something that is pretty hard to do under the circumstances.

In any case, we do know from testimony of the lead pathologist, that DNA was found on the murder weapon from the two victims and other persons, but NOT from the two defendants. For me reason enough to conclude that there is reasonable doubt as to they did in fact murder the two victims.

Again, let's have this conclusive evidence apparently brought to table by the prosecution, in the public domain where it belongs in a capital murder case.

Edited May 24, 2016 by sjaak327

[Moonsterk]

Yes, the judges weighted all the evidence, for example when examining the matter of the torture allegations Zaw Lin claimed he was beaten nearly to death, yet the court report cites the doctor who examined after the alleged torture and the photos taken at that time to determine that he showed no signs of such thing, so no guessing how that's going (not) to fly during the appeal. The same with the DNA, again the judges didn't just focus on whether they dotted all their i's and crossed all their t's, they considered everything together, for example they pointed out that the results were produced just a few days after the murders, therefore the notion that they had been already adulterated to incriminate those two guys, caught two weeks later was, and is, absurd.

The thing is the "reasonable doubt" in this case is in fact an implausible list of amazing coincidences coupled to an elaborate conspiracy; there may be a doubt but reasonable it ain't.

I believe there is ample doubt. The fact that there were traces of DNA on the murder weapon, yet none of it matched any of the two suspects would be reason enough to doubt they did in fact murder the two victims.

I believe there is ample doubt. The fact that there were traces of DNA on the murder weapon, yet none of it matched any of the two suspects would be reason enough to doubt they did in fact murder the two victims.

3 profiles on the hoe 2 full profiles 1 partial profile

the 2 full profiles were Hannah & Davids

and the 3rd a partial profile matched defendant but because it wasn't a full profile it could not prove they handled it.

If you are saying it can't be them because there dna is not on the hoe the only other reason there can be is that the hoe committed the murders.

And there's this thing .. it's a bit of a secret maybe? About how to not leave DNA around- use a cloth to hold a murder weapon, a shirt works well.

[sjaak327]

I believe there is ample doubt. The fact that there were traces of DNA on the murder weapon, yet none of it matched any of the two suspects would be reason enough to doubt they did in fact murder the two victims.

I believe there is ample doubt. The fact that there were traces of DNA on the murder weapon, yet none of it matched any of the two suspects would be reason enough to doubt they did in fact murder the two victims.

3 profiles on the hoe 2 full profiles 1 partial profile

the 2 full profiles were Hannah & Davids

and the 3rd a partial profile matched defendant but because it wasn't a full profile it could not prove they handled it.

If you are saying it can't be them because there dna is not on the hoe the only other reason there can be is that the hoe committed the murders.

And there's this thing .. it's a bit of a secret maybe? About how to not leave DNA around- use a cloth to hold a murder weapon, a shirt works well.

Oh yeah of course, so now the question, in the absence of DNA on the murder weapon, how does one know, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the two defendants did in fact murder the two victims ?

[Aj Mick]

The whole case has been built around avoiding, "losing", or "using up" anything that would implicate the original suspects.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/63714

The police have arrested a suspect in the murder of two British tourists in Koh Tao and are still hunting for a second suspect who has escaped into Bangkok.

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon. He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao. He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

The prosecution and RTP are, of course, correct in saying that certain CCTV video records are not relevant to the case against the Burmese lads.

This has been refuted a least 20 times on the various threads. Montiwat was questioned his DNA sample taken, he was NEVER "arrested" that article you post from Sept 23 was corrected the very next day Sept 24 to this...

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/63857

Police interrogated Woraphan Toovichien, 49, a village headman and owner of AC Bar which is located near the murder scene, and his brother, Montriwat Toovichien, owner of In Touch resort and caretaker of AC Bar.

Both gave good cooperation to the police and they denied they had any connection.

DNA samples of the two brothers were collecting for testing and were later proved to not match with DNA collected from the scene and the victim’s body.

And the bit you add in about " used up." DNA evidence - It was a miscommunication seized on as " evidence" the police were liars. I'd say about 80% of what I've read here on on the other threads exonerating the convicted is miscommunication and elaborations gleaned off those very same FB pages- quite the study in social media as a propagator of propaganda.

Nothing has been refuted, but plenty has been done to keep the heat off the original suspects, among others.

I have no doubt that they became very co-operative with the police, after Pol Lt-Gen Panya was removed from the case.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Aj Mick

[rockingrobin]

Moonsterk

The RTP could easily have established if the B2 had used a cloth/shirt or other whilst using the hoe. Surely with the absence of the B2 dna on the hoe , the RTP would of enquired about this during the B2 confession.

Since the cloth/shirt is not in the prosecutions case it is reasonable to assume that they do not believe any such items were used.

[DiscoDan]

He went back to get a bottle of alcohol thats what MM said if you want to twist that to beer you are welcome,

Yes thats what I said they were sitting 65 meters from the crime scene.

no because no one knows for sure what time they were killed.

If they have nothing to hide why would they be in a rush to sell they could wait to get the right price or they might not be working.

WP on the other hand couldn't wait to give his away and then his mate smashed it up after WP found it on the beach.

Why did WP not take it back ? instead letting his friend destroy it

And explain this one, why would WP say he found it in a bar if he had nothing to hide ?

And last but not least MM went back to look for his guitar with WP they looked high and low and could not find it, yet the next day it was found in the exact spot where they left it,

No Dan, you're the one doing the twisting by claiming that MM got them more wine. He didn't, he got them beer, as he stated himself. But you told porkies to the forum that it was wine, so that you could reinforce the red herring about a wine bottle being incriminating. It isn't.

They were sitting 65m from the crime scene several hours before the crime. There was a beach party going on near the crime scene (not investigated by the police) which was a continuation of the party in a bar managed by Mon Tuvichien at the time of the crime. Were you in attendance by any chance?

Check the time that the attending doctor gave as the time of death. Has this been disputed?

You were creating a 'should be desperate to raise money' line of argumentation. But the phone saga's the biggest red herring in the stitch-up anyway.

MM was released as unconnected to the crime. If you have evidence that he was involved, you should present it. But you don't, so you endlessly and grotesquely twist circumstances to defame the two scapegoats and anyone connected with them.

Seems to me you have some of contact with people within or around defense team as I have not seen anywhere a mention of MM saying he went back to get a bottle of beer I have only found a link to a bottle of alcohol.

But show me the link and prove me wrong funny how islandlover has vanished since she admitted to being one of the admins on the Thailand justice page,

and no I was not at the party I have never stepped foot on Koh Tao

If anyone can find evidence to prove someone else did the crimes I will be more than happy to come and watch their execution Nomsod Mon wig man Sean Mcanna or whoever you want no problem. Can you put your hand on your heart and honestly say you will happily watch the B2 be executed if evidence came forward to prove there guilt beyond reasonable doubt in court and the eye of the public ?

[phuketandsee]

Who would want to be an appeal court judge in this case. On the one side you have the weight of evidence, the international media and your own conscience and sense of natural justice (which presumably a senior judge will possess), on the other you have the national expectations, your bosses and their bosses instructions, and the reputation and legitimacy of the Thai justice system of which you are a prominent member. Two opposing irresistible forces with you in the middle. Which is the path of least resistance?

Sadly we know which path that is.

[phuketandsee]

"That's your opinion.

But, notwithstanding the performance and competence levels of the police and their inherent nature in such matters, the court believed otherwise; so did the British police forces who received reports and sent observers; so did the families of the victims.

We, unless you can say different, have not been privy to all the evidence against the two convicted of this crime.

We simply don't know all the facts and so with respect, you can't possible be 100% accurate".

Received reports from whom Baerboxer? The RTP and prosecution no doubt. Hardly independent. And the British police were only allowed to observe what the Thai authorities wanted them to observe and did not send observers to the trial AFAIK.

Last, but by no means least, only the Miller family believed the prosecution. The Witheridges most certainly did not.

[dageurreotype]

See. They will fight on the technicalies of the case.

The new mantra.

Maybe they are innocent.

Maybe they are guilty.

It doesn't matter [emoji5][emoji5]

Protocol was not followed.

Bullshit.

Guilty as sin. even their own lawyers don't shout their innocence anymore.

Would like to see the death sentence overturned. Other than that, right where they should be.

Disgraceful comments why do you continue to embarress yourself.

On another thread some while back, greenchair confessed to have been incarcerated in a mental institution..

[Yann55]

See the lady with the brown shirt behind the glass ? See the look of contempt on her face ? That says it all : I am the authority, and you clowns are wasting my precious time with your useless paperwork.

God knows Thai people can be friendly, polite, fun, helpful ... but the ones with uniforms, power and a glass/counter to protect them from the visitors are almost always the exact opposite. To be fair, I have seen exceptions, and that's exactly what they were : exceptions.

I know it's not specifically Thai. But I do find this behaviour to be worse here than in most other places I've been to (and that's a lot of places).

Edited May 24, 2016 by Yann55

[12DrinkMore]

All very sad, I am not competent to comment on the rights and wrongs, but I do like and prefer the jury system that we have in the UK

But then look at the farce in the USA on the OJ Simpson trial

Also I prefer 10 guilty to be saved the death sentence, just in case the court gets it wrong, and in the UK this has happened many times

i think the reason the Thais do not use the jury system stems back to the quality of schooling in the past

Nope, it is because of the danger of justice being done.

[Apinya Chati]

He went back to get a bottle of alcohol thats what MM said if you want to twist that to beer you are welcome,

Yes thats what I said they were sitting 65 meters from the crime scene.

no because no one knows for sure what time they were killed.

If they have nothing to hide why would they be in a rush to sell they could wait to get the right price or they might not be working.

WP on the other hand couldn't wait to give his away and then his mate smashed it up after WP found it on the beach.

Why did WP not take it back ? instead letting his friend destroy it

And explain this one, why would WP say he found it in a bar if he had nothing to hide ?

And last but not least MM went back to look for his guitar with WP they looked high and low and could not find it, yet the next day it was found in the exact spot where they left it,

No Dan, you're the one doing the twisting by claiming that MM got them more wine. He didn't, he got them beer, as he stated himself. But you told porkies to the forum that it was wine, so that you could reinforce the red herring about a wine bottle being incriminating. It isn't.

They were sitting 65m from the crime scene several hours before the crime. There was a beach party going on near the crime scene (not investigated by the police) which was a continuation of the party in a bar managed by Mon Tuvichien at the time of the crime. Were you in attendance by any chance?

Check the time that the attending doctor gave as the time of death. Has this been disputed?

You were creating a 'should be desperate to raise money' line of argumentation. But the phone saga's the biggest red herring in the stitch-up anyway.

MM was released as unconnected to the crime. If you have evidence that he was involved, you should present it. But you don't, so you endlessly and grotesquely twist circumstances to defame the two scapegoats and anyone connected with them.

Seems to me you have some of contact with people within or around defense team as I have not seen anywhere a mention of MM saying he went back to get a bottle of beer I have only found a link to a bottle of alcohol.

But show me the link and prove me wrong funny how islandlover has vanished since she admitted to being one of the admins on the Thailand justice page,

and no I was not at the party I have never stepped foot on Koh Tao

If anyone can find evidence to prove someone else did the crimes I will be more than happy to come and watch their execution Nomsod Mon wig man Sean Mcanna or whoever you want no problem. Can you put your hand on your heart and honestly say you will happily watch the B2 be executed if evidence came forward to prove there guilt beyond reasonable doubt in court and the eye of the public ?

DiscoDan:- Islandlover happens to be attending a family bereavement, I have every expectation that you will hear from her again in due course

[DiscoDan]

They were seen buying beer at a shop in cctv footage.

In there alibi they had one beer each so if the alcohol that MM brought was beer they were lying if it was something else they were not.

“After finishing the beer and cigarettes, Maung Maung said he told his two friends he was leaving, but they insisted on having more to drink, so he went back to the room and got an extra bottle of alcohol and took it to them. That was all around 1am,” he said.

"He did mention that there was an ‘English’ or ‘Western’ couple at some point.”

https://www.facebook.com/freeInnocentwinandzaw/posts/1462165177339172

[Thaidream]

It's time to take the emotion out of this case and look at it from the facts presented and the defense is appealing the conviction not just the sentence.

I do not know who the guilty parties are in this case but I am certain from the facts presented and available to the public that the prosecution did not present a case in which the defendants could be found guilty. Here is why:

- The crime scene was not sealed, thus, anyone and everyone- including potential perpetrators of the crime, could have entered the scene and tampered with evidence

- Any DNA found from any source or any person is worthless as there is no chain of custody and no report available tracking it. Thus, all DNA evidence must be excluded.

- The police investigation has unexplained gaps. The last place where the deceased were seen was at the AC Bar. Where are the witness statements? Where is the video. if one existed. and if there is a video system- why was it not working Too much doubt about the investigation gaps- creates reasonable doubt.

-The "confession" is also suspect in that the interpreter used was a Roti seller from the street who spoke a different dialect than the B2. In addition, there is a possibility that force was used during the interview process. All of this leads one to question the reliability of the 'confession,'

-No reasonable motive for the accused (now convicted) to have committed these murders has ever been established. There is no evidence that the B2 knew the deceased and why would the B2 walking along a beach (even if intoxicated) commit a murder for no apparent reason.

In my mind, based on the above- the prosecution has not proved their case and thus the conviction has to be overturned. However, should the Appeals court do this, the prosecution will appeal to the Supreme Court and vice versa. The final resolution of this case is still several years in the future.

[Si Thea01]

Hmm, you must be privy to information the rest of us aren't. I am dying to hear what piece of evidence the prosecution brought to table which establishes quilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I have not see any such evidence.

And just what evidence have you seen to become such an expert on the matter. As nothing has been released by the court then all anyone is able to comment on is what has been reported and what has been reported appears to be less than credible and those reporting clearly have an agenda. And why do you think you or anyone else on here will ever get to see any of the evidence presented.

The court's findings can be seen and challenged by the defense's legal team, not by anyone on here so your little wish of dying to hear what evidence the prosecution is totally futile. After reading the postings over 4 pages it's just the same old arguments, nothing new has been added so here we go again, "I l know better, no you don't I do". Then the name calling starts and all we end up with is a total nothing but the bagging and slinging off at others. Becomes very monotonous after awhile.

I doubt anyone is holding a gun to your head and forces you to read this thread, so if it becomes boring for you to read, I would like to suggest not reading the thread ? Seems like a logical solution to your complaint.

If you would have read the two sentences of my post, you would know that I claim not to have seen any evidence that beyond a reasonable doubt, leads to the conclusion they did in fact murder the two victims.

Maybe your first paragraph already highlights the problem of this case, and how the trial was anything but fair. Apparently the public cannot know the full extend of the evidence, and must therefore rely on the Thai justice system doing an honest job. Something that is pretty hard to do under the circumstances.

In any case, we do know from testimony of the lead pathologist, that DNA was found on the murder weapon from the two victims and other persons, but NOT from the two defendants. For me reason enough to conclude that there is reasonable doubt as to they did in fact murder the two victims.

Again, let's have this conclusive evidence apparently brought to table by the prosecution, in the public domain where it belongs in a capital murder case.

Thank you for your informative post. By reading the thread I was hoping that someone with knowledge may post something that none of us were aware of. They haven't. I don't heed other's suggestions nor is there anything occurring that forces me to read the thread so it looks like I will have to read what will continue to be a dull, tedious and repetitious thread. If you are hoping for any evidence to be released into the public domain, I think you could be waitng a long time.

[dick dasterdly]

Hmm, you must be privy to information the rest of us aren't. I am dying to hear what piece of evidence the prosecution brought to table which establishes quilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I have not see any such evidence.

And just what evidence have you seen to become such an expert on the matter. As nothing has been released by the court then all anyone is able to comment on is what has been reported and what has been reported appears to be less than credible and those reporting clearly have an agenda. And why do you think you or anyone else on here will ever get to see any of the evidence presented.

The court's findings can be seen and challenged by the defense's legal team, not by anyone on here so your little wish of dying to hear what evidence the prosecution is totally futile. After reading the postings over 4 pages it's just the same old arguments, nothing new has been added so here we go again, "I l know better, no you don't I do". Then the name calling starts and all we end up with is a total nothing but the bagging and slinging off at others. Becomes very monotonous after awhile.

I doubt anyone is holding a gun to your head and forces you to read this thread, so if it becomes boring for you to read, I would like to suggest not reading the thread ? Seems like a logical solution to your complaint.

If you would have read the two sentences of my post, you would know that I claim not to have seen any evidence that beyond a reasonable doubt, leads to the conclusion they did in fact murder the two victims.

Maybe your first paragraph already highlights the problem of this case, and how the trial was anything but fair. Apparently the public cannot know the full extend of the evidence, and must therefore rely on the Thai justice system doing an honest job. Something that is pretty hard to do under the circumstances.

In any case, we do know from testimony of the lead pathologist, that DNA was found on the murder weapon from the two victims and other persons, but NOT from the two defendants. For me reason enough to conclude that there is reasonable doubt as to they did in fact murder the two victims.

Again, let's have this conclusive evidence apparently brought to table by the prosecution, in the public domain where it belongs in a capital murder case.

Thank you for your informative post. By reading the thread I was hoping that someone with knowledge may post something that none of us were aware of. They haven't. I don't heed other's suggestions nor is there anything occurring that forces me to read the thread so it looks like I will have to read what will continue to be a dull, tedious and repetitious thread. If you are hoping for any evidence to be released into the public domain, I think you could be waitng a long time.

Re. emboldened part, I agree .

[rockingrobin]

They were seen buying beer at a shop in cctv footage.

In there alibi they had one beer each so if the alcohol that MM brought was beer they were lying if it was something else they were not.

“After finishing the beer and cigarettes, Maung Maung said he told his two friends he was leaving, but they insisted on having more to drink, so he went back to the room and got an extra bottle of alcohol and took it to them. That was all around 1am,” he said.

"He did mention that there was an ‘English’ or ‘Western’ couple at some point.”

https://www.facebook.com/freeInnocentwinandzaw/posts/1462165177339172

Who is this English or western couple ?

[DiscoDan]

Seems to me you have some of contact with people within or around defense team as I have not seen anywhere a mention of MM saying he went back to get a bottle of beer I have only found a link to a bottle of alcohol.

But show me the link and prove me wrong funny how islandlover has vanished since she admitted to being one of the admins on the Thailand justice page,

and no I was not at the party I have never stepped foot on Koh Tao

If anyone can find evidence to prove someone else did the crimes I will be more than happy to come and watch their execution Nomsod Mon wig man Sean Mcanna or whoever you want no problem. Can you put your hand on your heart and honestly say you will happily watch the B2 be executed if evidence came forward to prove there guilt beyond reasonable doubt in court and the eye of the public ?

DiscoDan:- Islandlover happens to be attending a family bereavement, I have every expectation that you will hear from her again in due course

Glad you could join Thaivisa less than an hour ago to give me this vital info, you are not fooling anyone except yourself

[StealthEnergiser]

Hmm, you must be privy to information the rest of us aren't. I am dying to hear what piece of evidence the prosecution brought to table which establishes quilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I have not see any such evidence.

And just what evidence have you seen to become such an expert on the matter. As nothing has been released by the court then all anyone is able to comment on is what has been reported and what has been reported appears to be less than credible and those reporting clearly have an agenda. And why do you think you or anyone else on here will ever get to see any of the evidence presented.

The court's findings can be seen and challenged by the defense's legal team, not by anyone on here so your little wish of dying to hear what evidence the prosecution is totally futile. After reading the postings over 4 pages it's just the same old arguments, nothing new has been added so here we go again, "I l know better, no you don't I do". Then the name calling starts and all we end up with is a total nothing but the bagging and slinging off at others. Becomes very monotonous after awhile.

I doubt anyone is holding a gun to your head and forces you to read this thread, so if it becomes boring for you to read, I would like to suggest not reading the thread ? Seems like a logical solution to your complaint.

If you would have read the two sentences of my post, you would know that I claim not to have seen any evidence that beyond a reasonable doubt, leads to the conclusion they did in fact murder the two victims.

Maybe your first paragraph already highlights the problem of this case, and how the trial was anything but fair. Apparently the public cannot know the full extend of the evidence, and must therefore rely on the Thai justice system doing an honest job. Something that is pretty hard to do under the circumstances.

In any case, we do know from testimony of the lead pathologist, that DNA was found on the murder weapon from the two victims and other persons, but NOT from the two defendants. For me reason enough to conclude that there is reasonable doubt as to they did in fact murder the two victims.

Again, let's have this conclusive evidence apparently brought to table by the prosecution, in the public domain where it belongs in a capital murder case.

Thank you for your informative post. By reading the thread I was hoping that someone with knowledge may post something that none of us were aware of. They haven't. I don't heed other's suggestions nor is there anything occurring that forces me to read the thread so it looks like I will have to read what will continue to be a dull, tedious and repetitious thread. If you are hoping for any evidence to be released into the public domain, I think you could be waitng a long time.

Are you sure that you have been reading it all ? as yesterday you stated this "Have no idea if any or all of the above occurred bur regardless of what you have stated it is the death sentence they are appealing, nothing more, nothing less"

[Apinya Chati]

Seems to me you have some of contact with people within or around defense team as I have not seen anywhere a mention of MM saying he went back to get a bottle of beer I have only found a link to a bottle of alcohol.

But show me the link and prove me wrong funny how islandlover has vanished since she admitted to being one of the admins on the Thailand justice page,

and no I was not at the party I have never stepped foot on Koh Tao

If anyone can find evidence to prove someone else did the crimes I will be more than happy to come and watch their execution Nomsod Mon wig man Sean Mcanna or whoever you want no problem. Can you put your hand on your heart and honestly say you will happily watch the B2 be executed if evidence came forward to prove there guilt beyond reasonable doubt in court and the eye of the public ?

DiscoDan:- Islandlover happens to be attending a family bereavement, I have every expectation that you will hear from her again in due course

Glad you could join Thaivisa less than an hour ago to give me this vital info, you are not fooling anyone except yourself

I was trying to avoid you make yourself look a further fool by providing you with accurate information, I was unsuccessful. Have a good day

[DiscoDan]

They were seen buying beer at a shop in cctv footage.

In there alibi they had one beer each so if the alcohol that MM brought was beer they were lying if it was something else they were not.

“After finishing the beer and cigarettes, Maung Maung said he told his two friends he was leaving, but they insisted on having more to drink, so he went back to the room and got an extra bottle of alcohol and took it to them. That was all around 1am,” he said.

"He did mention that there was an ‘English’ or ‘Western’ couple at some point.”

https://www.facebook.com/freeInnocentwinandzaw/posts/1462165177339172

Who is this English or western couple ?

I don't know but obviously there is no way in the world it could been David or Hannah could it ?

[rockingrobin]

They were seen buying beer at a shop in cctv footage.

In there alibi they had one beer each so if the alcohol that MM brought was beer they were lying if it was something else they were not.

“After finishing the beer and cigarettes, Maung Maung said he told his two friends he was leaving, but they insisted on having more to drink, so he went back to the room and got an extra bottle of alcohol and took it to them. That was all around 1am,” he said.

"He did mention that there was an ‘English’ or ‘Western’ couple at some point.”

https://www.facebook.com/freeInnocentwinandzaw/posts/1462165177339172

Who is this English or western couple ?

I don't know but obviously there is no way in the world it could been David or Hannah could it ?

Spot on

It could be Hannah with somebody else, but definately not David

[sjaak327]

Hmm, you must be privy to information the rest of us aren't. I am dying to hear what piece of evidence the prosecution brought to table which establishes quilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I have not see any such evidence.

And just what evidence have you seen to become such an expert on the matter. As nothing has been released by the court then all anyone is able to comment on is what has been reported and what has been reported appears to be less than credible and those reporting clearly have an agenda. And why do you think you or anyone else on here will ever get to see any of the evidence presented.

The court's findings can be seen and challenged by the defense's legal team, not by anyone on here so your little wish of dying to hear what evidence the prosecution is totally futile. After reading the postings over 4 pages it's just the same old arguments, nothing new has been added so here we go again, "I l know better, no you don't I do". Then the name calling starts and all we end up with is a total nothing but the bagging and slinging off at others. Becomes very monotonous after awhile.

I doubt anyone is holding a gun to your head and forces you to read this thread, so if it becomes boring for you to read, I would like to suggest not reading the thread ? Seems like a logical solution to your complaint.

If you would have read the two sentences of my post, you would know that I claim not to have seen any evidence that beyond a reasonable doubt, leads to the conclusion they did in fact murder the two victims.

Maybe your first paragraph already highlights the problem of this case, and how the trial was anything but fair. Apparently the public cannot know the full extend of the evidence, and must therefore rely on the Thai justice system doing an honest job. Something that is pretty hard to do under the circumstances.

In any case, we do know from testimony of the lead pathologist, that DNA was found on the murder weapon from the two victims and other persons, but NOT from the two defendants. For me reason enough to conclude that there is reasonable doubt as to they did in fact murder the two victims.

Again, let's have this conclusive evidence apparently brought to table by the prosecution, in the public domain where it belongs in a capital murder case.

Thank you for your informative post. By reading the thread I was hoping that someone with knowledge may post something that none of us were aware of. They haven't. I don't heed other's suggestions nor is there anything occurring that forces me to read the thread so it looks like I will have to read what will continue to be a dull, tedious and repetitious thread. If you are hoping for any evidence to be released into the public domain, I think you could be waitng a long time.

And that is the whole problem, how can the state execute the death penalty, or throw these two in jail for the rest of their lives, without being open and transparent in the trail that lead to their conviction ?

I stand by my statement that the two defendants have not received a fair trial, and by my statement that no conclusive evidence that beyond a reasonable doubt can prove they in fact did kill the two victims has been known to all the stake holders, and yes that includes the public domain.

[rockingrobin]

Some of the defence points that have been submitted in relation to DNA from a defence lawyer.

DNA files presented had the accused names on them rather than a proper sample reference number. This is not possible without pre-knowledge of who’s DNA the sample being tested belonged to.

Retesting of the handle of murder weapon found DNA matching the male victim, but DNA matching neither of the accused was discovered. Originally police claimed there was no DNA evidence found on the handle of the murder weapon.

After results of DNA found on the handle of the murder weapon was disclosed in court to be from the male victim, prosecution admitted they had also found DNA matching the male victim on the handle of the murder weapon, but no DNA matching the accused. This case damaging evidence had not been introduced by the prosecution and raises the question of what other potentially case damaging evidence may have been withheld such as clothes of the victims allegedly not tested for DNA and why blood in the sand at the murder scene allegedly produced no DNA results, etc.

Multiple procedures are required in order to meet ISO 17025 international standards in DNA testing. The chain of custody, method of testing, graph generated and case notes resulting in the analysis report produced are all required in order to allow an independent expert to verify the results. Only the results of the test without any required supportive documents was provided by the prosecution witness.

Police claimed a 100% DNA match with the accused from samples allegedly taken from the victim’s body. This is scientifically impossible in any forensics testing laboratory anywhere in the world. For example, swabs taken from the victim would contain a minimum of three different DNAs producing what is known as a “mixed sample”. Mixed samples can be the most difficult to interpret, and from which a 100% match is never possible.

Thai forensic scientist Dr. Porntip’s DNA testing listed the statistical probability of a match on the results report. None of the prosecution’s DNA results presented indicated a statistical probability on the results reports. The “100% match” was only delivered verbally in court by a prosecution witness.

I dont understand

' After results of DNA found on the handle of the murder weapon was disclosed in court to be from the male victim, prosecution admitted they had also found DNA matching the male victim on the handle of the murder weapon, but no DNA matching the accused '

It was my understanding that the RTP claimed they did not dna test the hoe

[Moonsterk]

This has been refuted a least 20 times on the various threads. Montiwat was questioned his DNA sample taken, he was NEVER "arrested" that article you post from Sept 23 was corrected the very next day Sept 24 to this...

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/63857

Police interrogated Woraphan Toovichien, 49, a village headman and owner of AC Bar which is located near the murder scene, and his brother, Montriwat Toovichien, owner of In Touch resort and caretaker of AC Bar.

Both gave good cooperation to the police and they denied they had any connection.

DNA samples of the two brothers were collecting for testing and were later proved to not match with DNA collected from the scene and the victim’s body.

And the bit you add in about " used up." DNA evidence - It was a miscommunication seized on as " evidence" the police were liars. I'd say about 80% of what I've read here on on the other threads exonerating the convicted is miscommunication and elaborations gleaned off those very same FB pages- quite the study in social media as a propagator of propaganda.

Nothing has been refuted, but plenty has been done to keep the heat off the original suspects, among others.

I have no doubt that they became very co-operative with the police, after Pol Lt-Gen Panya was removed from the case.

You might keep in mind Panya was still on the case 23/ 24th Sept.

Wai was always an original suspect from CCTV footage because it looked like him.

Here's the pic after CSI LA "enhanced" altered it and made the nose subtly more pronounced- like NOm Sod's (Tuvichien)

Here is Dear little Wai at arrest

Moonsterk

The RTP could easily have established if the B2 had used a cloth/shirt or other whilst using the hoe. Surely with the absence of the B2 dna on the hoe , the RTP would of enquired about this during the B2 confession.

Since the cloth/shirt is not in the prosecutions case it is reasonable to assume that they do not believe any such items were used.

Really ? Like how? It is not reasonable to assume anything in a capital murder case.

Maybe the cloth/ shirt was never found would be my answer.

[Khun Han]

See. They will fight on the technicalies of the case.

The new mantra.

Maybe they are innocent.

Maybe they are guilty.

It doesn't matter [emoji5][emoji5]

Protocol was not followed.

Bullshit.

Guilty as sin. even their own lawyers don't shout their innocence anymore.

Would like to see the death sentence overturned. Other than that, right where they should be.

Disgraceful comments why do you continue to embarress yourself.

On another thread some while back, greenchair confessed to have been incarcerated in a mental institution..

That explains a lot.