Thai govt to undergo police reform

[JAG]

The two chaps named in the OP, as very senior Police Officers, are the obvious choices to drive such a reform program. Because of their rank and experience they will have a sound understanding of the circumstances that lead to corruption, and probably be aware of a number of such instances. As senior officers they can be relied upon to manage and control the resources which will inevitably be required for such a major project..

[BigBadGeordie]

The two chaps named in the OP, as very senior Police Officers, are the obvious choices to drive such a reform program. Because of their rank and experience they will have a sound understanding of the circumstances that lead to corruption, and probably be aware of a number of such instances. As senior officers they can be relied upon to manage and control the resources which will inevitably be required for such a major project..

I love a big dose of sarcasm with my morning coffee.

Made my day start with a smile.

Edited May 28, 2016 by BigBadGeordie

[tuanku]

better image of police officers in the eyes of the Thai people.

Once again it is about image rather than substance, and the fact that this is the 14th running of this talking shop shows how little effect it is likely to have.

The article linked by James Brock http://rjsh.rsu.ac.th/download/RJSH-Vol1-No2_49-53_Jomdet-Trimek.pdf

suggests decentralisation and downsizing and is well reasoned by someone with inside experience of the police.

Part of its conclusion says;

"The distribution or separation of police power would be effective in partially severing the chain of command that in turn can discourage the passing of bribes. It would also reduce the power of high-level officials, making them unable to intervene in the appointment process of lower-ranked policemen, which in turn can prevent the purchases of positions that are one of the causes of bribery and protection money collection. Most importantly, the decentralisation of police power or the downsizing of the agency would result in a general increase in police salaries, weakening the oft-mentioned reason for corruption"

Which sounds a lot more sensible than;

"everyone receives a measure of education on the matter to respect and obey the rule of law."

Unfortunately as Khun Jomdet points out;

however, the current structure remains immutable because the powers-that-be, who have the means to reform, are not in favour of decentralisation as their powers would be subsequently reduced. Even though such reform would change Royal Thai Police for the better, the agency still lacks commanders willing to sacrifice their personal benefits for the greater good.

[chainarong]

For starters reforms isn't image , reform is when you completely dismantle and rebuild , preferably using persons with vast knowledge from other international agencies, trying to change the RTP image is like standing in front of a dozen stampeding elephants, the only problem they have got is U..................................

[Winniedapu]

"Meanwhile, National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) Chairman Pol Gen Watcharapol Prasarnratchakij said many of the police officers still lack experience in certain fields."

Well, obviously not in the fields that really count, namely... [drumroll]... bribery, corruption, and graft.

The only way this rotten-to-the-bone police force can ever be reformed is by executing what the Romans so aptly called "tabula rasa", i.e. a clean sweep from top to bottom through the dismissal of literally every single police officer in the country, including the top brass, and no chance for them of ever being able to join the force again.

And this I'm afraid is a task that is practically unfeasible as the country would remain without police for an exceedingly long time while a new force is being recruited and trained from scratch under extremely tight criteria.

Would Thailand without a police force be any worse or different than it currently is with the existing force?

Oh I think the "royal" should be dropped from their designation.

And the army. First step n bringing them both under civilian control. But it would be resisted, the amaat likes having its tin soldiers, makes them feel secure.

Can't rely on Prayuth to even contemplate the process much less begin it. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, and besides, both the police and the army knows where his skeletons are hanging.

W

Edited May 28, 2016 by Winniedapu

[Brer Fox]

It is times like these one would like to be a Thai fly on the wall and listen to what was said and see who said it.

Such a Thai fly would soon fall off the wall in bouts of hysterical laughter.

[kannot]

Half the force double the salary

[sanukjim]

To promote the correct image of the bib would be to put all of them Sargent and above in jail.A good start

[Mickmouse1]

How? Uniform fitted with 360°cam with built in mic...uniform has no pockets...???

[jamesbrock]

Half the force double the salary

That's closer to the mark than many people might think!

When Prayuth granted wide ranging powers usually reserved for civilian police to members of the military (under gazetted Order 13/2559 (29 March 2016 [2559], vol.133 Special Section) of Article 44), his spokesperson, Kritsana Pattanacharoen, said he believed the junta empowered the military with police powers to support the police, as he said they don’t have enough officers.

A few days later when a "Massive police force [was] mobilized to ensure public safety during Songkran festival" they could only scrounge up 90,000 officers—less than 40 percent of the total force—to ensure safety for one of the most dangerous periods of the year; leading many to ask how many of the superfluous 140,000+ officers are administrative or inactive?

A proper reform would eliminate a large number of these superfluous officers, thus, as Khun Jomdet pointed out in the paper I linked to earlier, "result in a general increase in police salaries, weakening the oft-mentioned reason for corruption."

[dominique355]

The Ministry of Justice has held a seminar on police reform with an aim to promote a better image of police officers in the eyes of the Thai people.

You will notice that this so-called Reform is only aimed at improving the image of the police, in other words, just some new paint on an otherwise corrupt building.

Appearance is all, substance is nothing.

But then again, nobody is surprised. Anyway, how could the military government request with a straight face to reform the police? I scratch your back, you scratch my back.

[slapout]

Get rid of the ''inactive post'' fire those in these posts. Next take away the police determination/timing of, if a ticket should be recorded for any illegal offenses (including traffic accidents), amount of fine, bail and any punishment for any lawbreaker. Their job is to enforce the laws, serve and protect the public, if they go beyond this fire them.

At the same time reform and go thru the group paid who are responsible for determining what charges to presue and include the judical system that hears the initial charges, and determines bail, if warrented. Include those judicial employees who hear cases and define the punishment to be applied.

Its not just the RTP who require reform but the judicial system top down, through the bib, immigration, and all those who are associated with all/ any of these groups.

The justice ministry appears to have ignored all the hot spots in the fire zone that need a good dousing to clean them up also.

Edited May 28, 2016 by slapout

[NongKhaiKid]

No point reforming the police until the judiciary is reformed.. that will never happen so there is little point.

Not that there is a police reform plan anyway. In fact the big boss Prawit has already confirmed as much according to news reports.

i seem to remember a statement that there were no govt plans to reform the BIB and it was up to the police to do it themselves so we can imagine it went straight to the top of the national police chief's To Do list.

The PM et al must know it won't happen if left to the BIB so yet another example of total lack of leadership as the national chief should be told in words of one syllable to Get On With It or he'll be replaced by a properly trained monkey.

Of course we can imagine there may be good reasons for lack of govt initiative, well good as far as they're concerned, but it's still lack of leadership.

[Tonawatchee]

I'm enjoying this dream, please, do not pinch.

[klauskunkel]

the reform will only be possible if everyone receives a measure of education on the matter to respect and obey the rule of law.

preemptive explanation of reform failure

building in the backdoor an using it

[Caveat Emptor]

No point reforming the police until the judiciary is reformed.. that will never happen so there is little point.

Not that there is a police reform plan anyway. In fact the big boss Prawit has already confirmed as much according to news reports.

i seem to remember a statement that there were no govt plans to reform the BIB and it was up to the police to do it themselves so we can imagine it went straight to the top of the national police chief's To Do list.

The PM et al must know it won't happen if left to the BIB so yet another example of total lack of leadership as the national chief should be told in words of one syllable to Get On With It or he'll be replaced by a properly trained monkey.

Of course we can imagine there may be good reasons for lack of govt initiative, well good as far as they're concerned, but it's still lack of leadership.

How can reform be left to the police themselves unless strictly supervised as they like things just the ay they are especially at the more senior ranks. Strci supervision is also a non-starter.

Shows the mentality of those supposedly running the country when they won't get involved in such a major and badly needed project.

Give the PM a bike lane problem and he'll be all over it.

[ameadi]

some positive comments.???

[TKDfella]

The Pm in his Friday night speech reiterated that there was only one law for all. With all that is being told by News items, sadly this does not appear so. A killer is allowed bail and caterpillar machines guard a suspect from...If they want reform these are good places to begin.

[MZurf]

The Pm in his Friday night speech reiterated that there was only one law for all. With all that is being told by News items, sadly this does not appear so. A killer is allowed bail and caterpillar machines guard a suspect from...If they want reform these are good places to begin.

"If they want reform these are good places to begin."

Herein lies the problem - they don't.

[TKDfella]

The Pm in his Friday night speech reiterated that there was only one law for all. With all that is being told by News items, sadly this does not appear so. A killer is allowed bail and caterpillar machines guard a suspect from...If they want reform these are good places to begin.

"If they want reform these are good places to begin."

Herein lies the problem - they don't.

Just trying to be polite if you see what I mean, Ha!

[djjamie]

"reform will only be possible if everyone receives a measure of education on the matter to respect and obey the rule of law"

I will have a lot more respect for the police when they have more respect and obey the rule of law and raise an arrest warranty for the Red Bull air.

[elgordo38]

They've been talking police reform for a long time. I'm not holding my breath for anything major....they will just tinker around the edges.

Of course they will. An extensive reform would cut so many links in the brown envelope chain which would be hard to re-attach. It also comes down to the cost the money that would need to be spent and well opening up the government purse for any project apart from tourism takes a herculean effort. I like how the Police general is in favor of this. He more than likely possess one of those monopoly cards that read oh crap forgot again. I am sure you know. Police reform to me would mean placing an officer outside my building in the evening and flagging down and ticketing the rice rockets that roar up and down the street that they own after dark. Fast forward 50 years into the future and things will be pretty well as they are now. Better training and better wages would go a long way but again the herculean effort to open the government purse would impede things. Also if they took some of the handmaidens that serve the top officers and had them perform some actual police duties that to would change things. I could never understand why these high muckety mucks need to be surrounded by gofers that do little besides fawning over the higher ups. Edited May 28, 2016 by elgordo38

[phoenixdoglover]

Consider that both the RTP and the army are far larger than they need to be, and that the typical member is underpaid. This is not a mistake. It is a well executed strategy. Many other countries do the same thing.

Keep the young men off the street, give them simple jobs, pay them poorly, give them an opportunity to supplement their incomes in a system that rewards upward loyalty.

Reform? My God, that would be a disaster.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The headline says the government to undergo police reform.

The actual article talks about them holding a seminar.

Not exactly a big step on the path to reform.

They've talked a lot on the subject, but thus far, in terms of concrete action or any meaningful reforms, I've seen nothing.

[selftaopath]

Half the force double the salary

That's closer to the mark than many people might think!

When Prayuth granted wide ranging powers usually reserved for civilian police to members of the military (under gazetted Order 13/2559 (29 March 2016 [2559], vol.133 Special Section) of Article 44), his spokesperson, Kritsana Pattanacharoen, said he believed the junta empowered the military with police powers to support the police, as he said they don’t have enough officers.

A few days later when a "Massive police force [was] mobilized to ensure public safety during Songkran festival" they could only scrounge up 90,000 officers—less than 40 percent of the total force—to ensure safety for one of the most dangerous periods of the year; leading many to ask how many of the superfluous 140,000+ officers are administrative or inactive?

A proper reform would eliminate a large number of these superfluous officers, thus, as Khun Jomdet pointed out in the paper I linked to earlier, "result in a general increase in police salaries, weakening the oft-mentioned reason for corruption."

I believe corruption will/would continue regardless of the salary. ONLY prison will deter the corrupt or at least give them reason for pause.

[jamesbrock]

Half the force double the salary

That's closer to the mark than many people might think!

When Prayuth granted wide ranging powers usually reserved for civilian police to members of the military (under gazetted Order 13/2559 (29 March 2016 [2559], vol.133 Special Section) of Article 44), his spokesperson, Kritsana Pattanacharoen, said he believed the junta empowered the military with police powers to support the police, as he said they don’t have enough officers.

A few days later when a "Massive police force [was] mobilized to ensure public safety during Songkran festival" they could only scrounge up 90,000 officers—less than 40 percent of the total force—to ensure safety for one of the most dangerous periods of the year; leading many to ask how many of the superfluous 140,000+ officers are administrative or inactive?

A proper reform would eliminate a large number of these superfluous officers, thus, as Khun Jomdet pointed out in the paper I linked to earlier, "result in a general increase in police salaries, weakening the oft-mentioned reason for corruption."

I believe corruption will/would continue regardless of the salary. ONLY prison will deter the corrupt or at least give them reason for pause.

Yes, I agree. That's why increasing salaries was last in the very long (not-exhaustive) list of items I posted in post #19 that need to occur before real reform could bear fruit.

Edited May 28, 2016 by jamesbrock

[rodknock]

if i posted what i would really like to, i would be called in for an attitude adjustment.

Ha-Ha-Ha so i will just laugh!

[soalbundy]

tee hee hee, he said police reform

[Oziex1]

When those at the top clean up their act then and only then can the rest be expected to behave.

[bheard]

"Justice has held a seminar on police reform with an aim to promote a better image of police officers in the eyes of the Thai people."

No no, this is nothing to do with doing police work better, nothing to do with justice, it's all about image. Says that in black and white.

Obviously the RTP is in need of a new PR department. That is all.