Parents Held Big Dreams for Children Lost in Fire. Now They Want Answers.

[snoop1130]

Parents Held Big Dreams for Children Lost in Fire. Now They Want Answers.
By Sasiwan Mokkhasen
Staff Reporter

Families of the children killed earlier this month in a school dormitory fire perform funeral rites according to their beliefs Tuesday in Chiang Rai province.

CHIANG RAI — It was 5am when Winai Pisailert received a phone call from the hospital. A woman’s voice told him his daughter was seriously injured from the fire that broke out in the dormitory late night while the 11-year-old was sleeping.

By the time he got to Wiang Pa Pao Hospital, his daughter had already died. Four years ago, the Akha ethnic father decided to send his daughter, Pornnapa “Fai” Pisailert, 11, to the Christian boarding school Pitakkiet Witthaya located 20 kilometers from their home.

Full Story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1464696144

-- Khaosod English 2016-05-31

[Strangebrew]

At loss of words for these families. Rest in peace little ones.

[Winniedapu]

Sad. Very sad. I can't imagine how I might feel if it were my daughter. Murderous I suspect.

Winnie

[lostinisaan]

A very tragic story while others complain about grammatical mistakes on a website.

RIP, little ones. And a lot of power to get over it for their parents, relatives, friends and all involved.

Where's god when you need him? Wouldn't a god help kids in such a situation?

[smedly]

this is so sad, for years upon years this country has had the means and the revenue to pull itself out of the dark ages but instead the powers that be were more concerned with money money money.....safety standards (building control) what is that ? well it would mean we have to spend money rather than stuff it into our greedy pockets, some will try and put the blame on the current government but the reality is that this country for 30 years or more has not developed at all - they just don't know how, maybe they need outside help but left on their own it is a constant failure...........some recent studies have said that the maturity age of the average Thai goes little beyond 13, strangely enough about 10 years ago I posted on TVF that I thought of Thais as children that never matured to adults, it seems I may have been right

here is a quote from another post I made not so long ago

it applies to the general situation regarding safety and standards in this country that quite frankly needs some serious attention

What is wrong here is -

1. greed

2. no safety standards

3. no formal training

4. no enforcement of standards if they existed (need to create and enforce)

They don't understand that these things will continue to happen until measures are put in place to prevent rather than react

Will anything change as a result of this tragedy - nope because money rules all in Thailand

Will authorities create/enforce safety regulations - nope - they seem to be more interested in reading my emails and accessing my privacy...f c of

Will this happen again - 100% certain

Are there Thai words for standards safety and prevention - well there probably are but it means the diversion of money away from where it matters most ...... in their greedy pockets

A first step - create the rules and make it law

A second step would be to make those responsible to pay a heavy penalty with severe punishment for breaking the rules if they existed

Is just saying TiT enough....................................................No, time to waken up Thailand and get with the program, you are a shameful nation of greed and underdevelopment that must end, there is no excuse

A very sad loss of young lives that could so easily have been avoided

R.I.P tear...so sad

[Traxster]

' Where's god when you need him? Wouldn't a god help kids in such a situation?'

Probably not .

God( whomever or whatever you consider him,her or it to be ) has never been known to help anybody who really needed it.

My most heartfelt commiserations to the parents.

[NongKhaiKid]

As ever lots of questions in LoS but answers ... ?

[gandalf12]

A very tragic story while others complain about grammatical mistakes on a website.

RIP, little ones. And a lot of power to get over it for their parents, relatives, friends and all involved.

Where's god when you need him? Wouldn't a god help kids in such a situation?

Many people will pick holes here for the slightest thing but I dont believe there is one person on TV who has not been touched by this tragedy to these children. It was an incident that need not have happened and should not have happened.

To the children who died in the fire RIP

To those severely injured make a full recovery.

To the families who have lost a child our hearts go out to you

[JAG]

this is so sad, for years upon years this country has had the means and the revenue to pull itself out of the dark ages but instead the powers that be were more concerned with money money money.....safety standards (building control) what is that ? well it would mean we have to spend money rather than stuff it into our greedy pockets, some will try and put the blame on the current government but the reality is that this country for 30 years or more has not developed at all - they just don't know how, maybe they need outside help but left on their own it is a constant failure...........some recent studies have said that the maturity age of the average Thai goes little beyond 13, strangely enough about 10 years ago I posted on TVF that I thought of Thais as children that never matured to adults, it seems I may have been right

here is a quote from another post I made not so long ago

it applies to the general situation regarding safety and standards in this country that quite frankly needs some serious attention

What is wrong here is -

1. greed

2. no safety standards

3. no formal training

4. no enforcement of standards if they existed (need to create and enforce)

They don't understand that these things will continue to happen until measures are put in place to prevent rather than react

Will anything change as a result of this tragedy - nope because money rules all in Thailand

Will authorities create/enforce safety regulations - nope - they seem to be more interested in reading my emails and accessing my privacy...f c of

Will this happen again - 100% certain

Are there Thai words for standards safety and prevention - well there probably are but it means the diversion of money away from where it matters most ...... in their greedy pockets

A first step - create the rules and make it law

A second step would be to make those responsible to pay a heavy penalty with severe punishment for breaking the rules if they existed

Is just saying TiT enough....................................................No, time to waken up Thailand and get with the program, you are a shameful nation of greed and underdevelopment that must end, there is no excuse

A very sad loss of young lives that could so easily have been avoided

R.I.P tear...so sad

Yes, yes, yes.

I'm sure that there are rules that state that fire exits must be unlocked. Not complied with nor enforced.

I'm sure that there are rules that state children must be supervised at night. Not complied with nor enforced.

I'm sure that there are agencies which exist to ensure that these rules and procedures are in place and complied with - probably several tiers of such agencies.

Until such rules are routinely complied with, and responsibility for enforcing them is taken by both local and national authorities, and the school management themselves, it will not change. And you're right, this is the result of greed, incompetence born out of greed ; the whole tradition - if it can be called that - of promoting because of connections and bribery rather than on merit and ability leads to incompetence and stems from greed. On one level Thailand claims to be developing - industry,some elements of infrastructure and so on, but until competence can be brought to bear it will never amount to anything. I am convinced that competence in managing all aspects of life here is desperately needed. it will remain absent until the whole business of promoting and appointing because of connections and bribery is brought to an end. This applies throughout society, across the whole political spectrum.

For a lot of us part of the attraction of living here is the rather freewheeling laid back attitude to life. In some areas of activity that attitude may have to change - it comes at a price and the price paid in Wiang Pao Pao was too high.

I'm not suggesting the "nanny state", or a Singapore style controlled society, but rather a realisation that the methods of ordering and structuring a society which worked two generations ago are failing society now.

[zyphodb]

this is so sad, for years upon years this country has had the means and the revenue to pull itself out of the dark ages but instead the powers that be were more concerned with money money money.....safety standards (building control) what is that ? well it would mean we have to spend money rather than stuff it into our greedy pockets, some will try and put the blame on the current government but the reality is that this country for 30 years or more has not developed at all - they just don't know how, maybe they need outside help but left on their own it is a constant failure...........some recent studies have said that the maturity age of the average Thai goes little beyond 13, strangely enough about 10 years ago I posted on TVF that I thought of Thais as children that never matured to adults, it seems I may have been right

here is a quote from another post I made not so long ago

it applies to the general situation regarding safety and standards in this country that quite frankly needs some serious attention

What is wrong here is -

1. greed

2. no safety standards

3. no formal training

4. no enforcement of standards if they existed (need to create and enforce)

They don't understand that these things will continue to happen until measures are put in place to prevent rather than react

Will anything change as a result of this tragedy - nope because money rules all in Thailand

Will authorities create/enforce safety regulations - nope - they seem to be more interested in reading my emails and accessing my privacy...f c of

Will this happen again - 100% certain

Are there Thai words for standards safety and prevention - well there probably are but it means the diversion of money away from where it matters most ...... in their greedy pockets

A first step - create the rules and make it law

A second step would be to make those responsible to pay a heavy penalty with severe punishment for breaking the rules if they existed

Is just saying TiT enough....................................................No, time to waken up Thailand and get with the program, you are a shameful nation of greed and underdevelopment that must end, there is no excuse

A very sad loss of young lives that could so easily have been avoided

R.I.P tear...so sad

this is so sad, for years upon years this country has had the means and the revenue to pull itself out of the dark ages but instead the powers that be were more concerned with money money money.....safety standards (building control) what is that ? well it would mean we have to spend money rather than stuff it into our greedy pockets, some will try and put the blame on the current government but the reality is that this country for 30 years or more has not developed at all - they just don't know how, maybe they need outside help but left on their own it is a constant failure...........some recent studies have said that the maturity age of the average Thai goes little beyond 13, strangely enough about 10 years ago I posted on TVF that I thought of Thais as children that never matured to adults, it seems I may have been right

here is a quote from another post I made not so long ago

it applies to the general situation regarding safety and standards in this country that quite frankly needs some serious attention

What is wrong here is -

1. greed

2. no safety standards

3. no formal training

4. no enforcement of standards if they existed (need to create and enforce)

They don't understand that these things will continue to happen until measures are put in place to prevent rather than react

Will anything change as a result of this tragedy - nope because money rules all in Thailand

Will authorities create/enforce safety regulations - nope - they seem to be more interested in reading my emails and accessing my privacy...f c of

Will this happen again - 100% certain

Are there Thai words for standards safety and prevention - well there probably are but it means the diversion of money away from where it matters most ...... in their greedy pockets

A first step - create the rules and make it law

A second step would be to make those responsible to pay a heavy penalty with severe punishment for breaking the rules if they existed

Is just saying TiT enough....................................................No, time to waken up Thailand and get with the program, you are a shameful nation of greed and underdevelopment that must end, there is no excuse

A very sad loss of young lives that could so easily have been avoided

R.I.P tear...so sad

Sad to have to say but I agree completely with Smedleys analysis and even sadder is the complete unlikelyness of any change. My heart goes out to all the children and parents involved, and as a Father of a 2 1/2 year old girl if it happened to me I would undoubtedly be looking to find and kill those responsible ...

[robblok]

this is so sad, for years upon years this country has had the means and the revenue to pull itself out of the dark ages but instead the powers that be were more concerned with money money money.....safety standards (building control) what is that ? well it would mean we have to spend money rather than stuff it into our greedy pockets, some will try and put the blame on the current government but the reality is that this country for 30 years or more has not developed at all - they just don't know how, maybe they need outside help but left on their own it is a constant failure...........some recent studies have said that the maturity age of the average Thai goes little beyond 13, strangely enough about 10 years ago I posted on TVF that I thought of Thais as children that never matured to adults, it seems I may have been right

here is a quote from another post I made not so long ago

it applies to the general situation regarding safety and standards in this country that quite frankly needs some serious attention

What is wrong here is -

1. greed

2. no safety standards

3. no formal training

4. no enforcement of standards if they existed (need to create and enforce)

They don't understand that these things will continue to happen until measures are put in place to prevent rather than react

Will anything change as a result of this tragedy - nope because money rules all in Thailand

Will authorities create/enforce safety regulations - nope - they seem to be more interested in reading my emails and accessing my privacy...f c of

Will this happen again - 100% certain

Are there Thai words for standards safety and prevention - well there probably are but it means the diversion of money away from where it matters most ...... in their greedy pockets

A first step - create the rules and make it law

A second step would be to make those responsible to pay a heavy penalty with severe punishment for breaking the rules if they existed

Is just saying TiT enough....................................................No, time to waken up Thailand and get with the program, you are a shameful nation of greed and underdevelopment that must end, there is no excuse

A very sad loss of young lives that could so easily have been avoided

R.I.P tear...so sad

Yes, yes, yes.

I'm sure that there are rules that state that fire exits must be unlocked. Not complied with nor enforced.

I'm sure that there are rules that state children must be supervised at night. Not complied with nor enforced.

I'm sure that there are agencies which exist to ensure that these rules and procedures are in place and complied with - probably several tiers of such agencies.

Until such rules are routinely complied with, and responsibility for enforcing them is taken by both local and national authorities, and the school management themselves, it will not change. And you're right, this is the result of greed, incompetence born out of greed ; the whole tradition - if it can be called that - of promoting because of connections and bribery rather than on merit and ability leads to incompetence and stems from greed. On one level Thailand claims to be developing - industry,some elements of infrastructure and so on, but until competence can be brought to bear it will never amount to anything. I am convinced that competence in managing all aspects of life here is desperately needed. it will remain absent until the whole business of promoting and appointing because of connections and bribery is brought to an end. This applies throughout society, across the whole political spectrum.

For a lot of us part of the attraction of living here is the rather freewheeling laid back attitude to life. In some areas of activity that attitude may have to change - it comes at a price and the price paid in Wiang Pao Pao was too high.

I'm not suggesting the "nanny state", or a Singapore style controlled society, but rather a realisation that the methods of ordering and structuring a society which worked two generations ago are failing society now.

Not condoning this as both of you are right, but I believe this was a free school ? Non profit ? So the greed part would not work. Of course there is some money going around and such but I don't think this was a matter of greed. Just stupidity and doing what everyone else does.

Like you guys.. i too came here for the lax regulation only just like you guys I have found the dark side to the lax regulations. Thing is you can't have it both ways.

[JAG]

^^^^

Perhaps "face" can have much the same effect as "greed". They often seem to go together.

[robblok]

^^^^

Perhaps "face" can have much the same effect as "greed". They often seem to go together.

Perhaps.. but I like to believe that its because a full time person guarding the children at night is expensive and maybe not affordable by the non profit school. Leaving the door open would expose the kids to other risks

But having no smoke alarms i find inexcusable.. I should get myself a few too but I am only risking myself.

[wabothai]

' Where's god when you need him? Wouldn't a god help kids in such a situation?'

Probably not .

God( whomever or whatever you consider him,her or it to be ) has never been known to help anybody who really needed it.

My most heartfelt commiserations to the parents.

View George Carlin on "religion".

[Chicog]

' Where's god when you need him? Wouldn't a god help kids in such a situation?'

Probably not .

God( whomever or whatever you consider him,her or it to be ) has never been known to help anybody who really needed it.

My most heartfelt commiserations to the parents.

View George Carlin on "religion".

Allow me.

[SOTIRIOS]

....gross negligence at least.....

...The attendant was 'taking a shower'.......

...do you believe this.....???

[Winniedapu]

Not condoning this as both of you are right, but I believe this was a free school ? Non profit ? So the greed part would not work. Of course there is some money going around and such but I don't think this was a matter of greed. Just stupidity and doing what everyone else does.

Like you guys.. i too came here for the lax regulation only just like you guys I have found the dark side to the lax regulations. Thing is you can't have it both ways.

Free to the end user does not equate to no income. Organisations in Thailand are adept as seeking funding from public or private sources, and then minimising costs to ensure maximum profits. I can tell you from my own direct experience, that christian schools in Thailand are both venal and ruthlessly profit-orientated. There are huge opportunities for corruption and the nuns and priests who run them are pretty energetic in chasing down the opportunities to extract money.

Sorry to be a cynic, but any school which is run by the Christian Church (especially with Filipina management) is likely to behave in very un-christian ways. It is a working policy (stretching back to the very early Christian leaders), that lying, cheating and stealing (and even murder) are not sins if they are done to increase the wealth and prominence of the Christian Church.

I don't know if this school was a christian 'free' school, but I imagine in Thailand, it doesn't matter which religious denomination is involved, they'll all be scrambling to get their noses in the trough. All for the glory of God of course. Naturally.

Corruption, greed and dishonesty cannot be ruled out because if is a 'free' school. This is Thailand, greed and corruption taints just about everything.

Winnie

[robblok]

Not condoning this as both of you are right, but I believe this was a free school ? Non profit ? So the greed part would not work. Of course there is some money going around and such but I don't think this was a matter of greed. Just stupidity and doing what everyone else does.

Like you guys.. i too came here for the lax regulation only just like you guys I have found the dark side to the lax regulations. Thing is you can't have it both ways.

Free to the end user does not equate to no income. Organisations in Thailand are adept as seeking funding from public or private sources, and then minimising costs to ensure maximum profits. I can tell you from my own direct experience, that christian schools in Thailand are both venal and ruthlessly profit-orientated. There are huge opportunities for corruption and the nuns and priests who run them are pretty energetic in chasing down the opportunities to extract money.

Sorry to be a cynic, but any school which is run by the Christian Church (especially with Filipina management) is likely to behave in very un-christian ways. It is a working policy (stretching back to the very early Christian leaders), that lying, cheating and stealing (and even murder) are not sins if they are done to increase the wealth and prominence of the Christian Church.

I don't know if this school was a christian 'free' school, but I imagine in Thailand, it doesn't matter which religious denomination is involved, they'll all be scrambling to get their noses in the trough. All for the glory of God of course. Naturally.

Corruption, greed and dishonesty cannot be ruled out because if is a 'free' school. This is Thailand, greed and corruption taints just about everything.

Winnie

I think i like religion as much as you do (not) however we can't be sure. These guys need to provide figures to show their donations are well used. Of course things can be faked (as an accountant and someone who lives in Thailand i know so). However your allegations are hard to prove. Does not mean they are not true but you might be wrong.

[The stuttering parrot]

Just wondering have the actual owners been named?

Huge negelince and I hope justice for the kids and the family is not just another ongoing saga as we have seen recently with the Hiso family's .

[JAG]

Not condoning this as both of you are right, but I believe this was a free school ? Non profit ? So the greed part would not work. Of course there is some money going around and such but I don't think this was a matter of greed. Just stupidity and doing what everyone else does.

Like you guys.. i too came here for the lax regulation only just like you guys I have found the dark side to the lax regulations. Thing is you can't have it both ways.

Free to the end user does not equate to no income. Organisations in Thailand are adept as seeking funding from public or private sources, and then minimising costs to ensure maximum profits. I can tell you from my own direct experience, that christian schools in Thailand are both venal and ruthlessly profit-orientated. There are huge opportunities for corruption and the nuns and priests who run them are pretty energetic in chasing down the opportunities to extract money.

Sorry to be a cynic, but any school which is run by the Christian Church (especially with Filipina management) is likely to behave in very un-christian ways. It is a working policy (stretching back to the very early Christian leaders), that lying, cheating and stealing (and even murder) are not sins if they are done to increase the wealth and prominence of the Christian Church.

I don't know if this school was a christian 'free' school, but I imagine in Thailand, it doesn't matter which religious denomination is involved, they'll all be scrambling to get their noses in the trough. All for the glory of God of course. Naturally.

Corruption, greed and dishonesty cannot be ruled out because if is a 'free' school. This is Thailand, greed and corruption taints just about everything.

Winnie

Sorry Winnie, normally you talk sense. Now I don't know about the school in Wiang Pao Pao, but I teach in a RC school, run by Nuns, and I 'm afraid that your broad brush condemnation is simply wrong.

Putting it crudely, I am afraid on this occasion you are talking b*ll*cks.

[Winniedapu]

Not condoning this as both of you are right, but I believe this was a free school ? Non profit ? So the greed part would not work. Of course there is some money going around and such but I don't think this was a matter of greed. Just stupidity and doing what everyone else does.

Like you guys.. i too came here for the lax regulation only just like you guys I have found the dark side to the lax regulations. Thing is you can't have it both ways.

Free to the end user does not equate to no income. Organisations in Thailand are adept as seeking funding from public or private sources, and then minimising costs to ensure maximum profits. I can tell you from my own direct experience, that christian schools in Thailand are both venal and ruthlessly profit-orientated. There are huge opportunities for corruption and the nuns and priests who run them are pretty energetic in chasing down the opportunities to extract money.

Sorry to be a cynic, but any school which is run by the Christian Church (especially with Filipina management) is likely to behave in very un-christian ways. It is a working policy (stretching back to the very early Christian leaders), that lying, cheating and stealing (and even murder) are not sins if they are done to increase the wealth and prominence of the Christian Church.

I don't know if this school was a christian 'free' school, but I imagine in Thailand, it doesn't matter which religious denomination is involved, they'll all be scrambling to get their noses in the trough. All for the glory of God of course. Naturally.

Corruption, greed and dishonesty cannot be ruled out because if is a 'free' school. This is Thailand, greed and corruption taints just about everything.

Winnie

I think i like religion as much as you do (not) however we can't be sure. These guys need to provide figures to show their donations are well used. Of course things can be faked (as an accountant and someone who lives in Thailand i know so). However your allegations are hard to prove. Does not mean they are not true but you might be wrong.

Agree, with 3 important caveats:

1, Accounting responsibility is likely to be constrained to within Thailand. No church is well-managed (as the child abuse demonstrates in the case of, but I'm sure not exclusively, the Catholic church. Thai oversight is likely to be at least as corrupt as the management it oversees.

2. I'm no really talking about accounting corruption, though I'm sure that exists wherever and whenever to opportunity arises. I'm talking about how they get and where they get the donations from. You know how it's done as well as I do.

3. In a major Catholic School in Thailand, I have personal experience and have observed the corruption at close quarters. Accepting cash for grades, cash for entry into advanced programs when the child is clearly not smart enough, and books. Books are the major income from corruption. They were brought from overseas on the basis of what books provided the best kickbacks, not on the basis of what the best books for the Thai curriculum were. Teachers had no input whatever to the decision about which books were purchased and then sold to the children.

Call me a cynic; I can tell you I have very distinct and carefully thought out mystical/religious views, but I am not your typical convert. I do however believe that all religions are based on a sociology (to prevent us killing each other off and depriving the church of converts - and money; the so-called 10 Commandments are a good example of this), a mythology to propagandize people (normally focusing on the most vulnerable members of society), and a set of instructions telling the newly propagandised people what to believe.

As was said elsewhere:

By the cold and religious, we were taken in hand.

Shown how to feel good, and told to feel bad.

etc

Without a doubt, exoteric religion is the most outrgaeous con trick the world has ever seen. And it's so widespread because it works.

Winnie

[gandalf12]

A very tragic story while others complain about grammatical mistakes on a website.

RIP, little ones. And a lot of power to get over it for their parents, relatives, friends and all involved.

Where's god when you need him? Wouldn't a god help kids in such a situation?

God is a figment of your imagination. An entity that allows others to control you nothing more and nothing less. Just look around the world and see the atrocities that are carried out in the name of "God". I guess for those with a poor education the concept gives them something to hold on to whilst going about their efforts to maintain an existence.

No one has ever seen this person called God so why should they believe it the existence? Well like most people they want to hedge their bets just in case there is a god and with all the uncertainty around who can really blame them.

[Winniedapu]

A very tragic story while others complain about grammatical mistakes on a website.

RIP, little ones. And a lot of power to get over it for their parents, relatives, friends and all involved.

Where's god when you need him? Wouldn't a god help kids in such a situation?

God is a figment of your imagination. An entity that allows others to control you nothing more and nothing less. Just look around the world and see the atrocities that are carried out in the name of "God". I guess for those with a poor education the concept gives them something to hold on to whilst going about their efforts to maintain an existence.

No one has ever seen this person called God so why should they believe it the existence? Well like most people they want to hedge their bets just in case there is a god and with all the uncertainty around who can really blame them.

Belief in the existence or otherwise of a God, requires a faith stance - the hypothesis cannot be measured proven or falsified and it is not therefore scientific. It may be right, it may be wrong, nobody knows. I disagree with you that religious people want to hedge their bets, it's pretty much accepted in neuroscience that most people have a need to believe in a religious idea of some kind, but most people who call themselves 'religious' or 'spiritual, are not exercising rationality in the decision to be one or the other, or both. Oddly, those who are neither are most often the ones who have thought about it more, usually from the perspective of an education with rather large gaps. Those who choose to believe in order to please someone else are mostly accepting something that someone else has told them to accept.

This is almost everyone in Thailand, though in Thailand there was quite a clever twist introduced by the people who designed the nationwide propaganda campaign (the Americans). A unique dimension that had to be unique because no other country had a population that was likely to believe it. Worked well though, still working today, though with diminishing belief levels, and those are going to disappear soon. It'll be interesting from a psychology perspective to see what the buddhist monks and the other parasites who benefit from a national religion try to do about that.

Winnie

[lostinisaan]

this is so sad, for years upon years this country has had the means and the revenue to pull itself out of the dark ages but instead the powers that be were more concerned with money money money.....safety standards (building control) what is that ? well it would mean we have to spend money rather than stuff it into our greedy pockets, some will try and put the blame on the current government but the reality is that this country for 30 years or more has not developed at all - they just don't know how, maybe they need outside help but left on their own it is a constant failure...........some recent studies have said that the maturity age of the average Thai goes little beyond 13, strangely enough about 10 years ago I posted on TVF that I thought of Thais as children that never matured to adults, it seems I may have been right

here is a quote from another post I made not so long ago

it applies to the general situation regarding safety and standards in this country that quite frankly needs some serious attention

What is wrong here is -

1. greed

2. no safety standards

3. no formal training

4. no enforcement of standards if they existed (need to create and enforce)

They don't understand that these things will continue to happen until measures are put in place to prevent rather than react

Will anything change as a result of this tragedy - nope because money rules all in Thailand

Will authorities create/enforce safety regulations - nope - they seem to be more interested in reading my emails and accessing my privacy...f c of

Will this happen again - 100% certain

Are there Thai words for standards safety and prevention - well there probably are but it means the diversion of money away from where it matters most ...... in their greedy pockets

A first step - create the rules and make it law

A second step would be to make those responsible to pay a heavy penalty with severe punishment for breaking the rules if they existed

Is just saying TiT enough....................................................No, time to waken up Thailand and get with the program, you are a shameful nation of greed and underdevelopment that must end, there is no excuse

A very sad loss of young lives that could so easily have been avoided

R.I.P tear...so sad

this is so sad, for years upon years this country has had the means and the revenue to pull itself out of the dark ages but instead the powers that be were more concerned with money money money.....safety standards (building control) what is that ? well it would mean we have to spend money rather than stuff it into our greedy pockets, some will try and put the blame on the current government but the reality is that this country for 30 years or more has not developed at all - they just don't know how, maybe they need outside help but left on their own it is a constant failure...........some recent studies have said that the maturity age of the average Thai goes little beyond 13, strangely enough about 10 years ago I posted on TVF that I thought of Thais as children that never matured to adults, it seems I may have been right

here is a quote from another post I made not so long ago

it applies to the general situation regarding safety and standards in this country that quite frankly needs some serious attention

What is wrong here is -

1. greed

2. no safety standards

3. no formal training

4. no enforcement of standards if they existed (need to create and enforce)

They don't understand that these things will continue to happen until measures are put in place to prevent rather than react

Will anything change as a result of this tragedy - nope because money rules all in Thailand

Will authorities create/enforce safety regulations - nope - they seem to be more interested in reading my emails and accessing my privacy...f c of

Will this happen again - 100% certain

Are there Thai words for standards safety and prevention - well there probably are but it means the diversion of money away from where it matters most ...... in their greedy pockets

A first step - create the rules and make it law

A second step would be to make those responsible to pay a heavy penalty with severe punishment for breaking the rules if they existed

Is just saying TiT enough....................................................No, time to waken up Thailand and get with the program, you are a shameful nation of greed and underdevelopment that must end, there is no excuse

A very sad loss of young lives that could so easily have been avoided

R.I.P tear...so sad

Sad to have to say but I agree completely with Smedleys analysis and even sadder is the complete unlikelyness of any change. My heart goes out to all the children and parents involved, and as a Father of a 2 1/2 year old girl if it happened to me I would undoubtedly be looking to find and kill those responsible ...

Yeaah, take the law in your own hand and kill the guys who work at Khurusapha? Or the janitor, teachers, firefighters? KIll the director, because he's the one who makes decisions to lock doors that should be open.

[DM07]

I'd take a "nanny"- state of any number of dead children, anytime!

(replace "dead children" with a term of your choice, like "road accident victims", "burnt night- club visitors", "suffocated children in vans:...you name it...)

[The Deerhunter]

Number one problem with Thai society. Lack of responsibility for any action taken. It is epidemic through every level of Thai society. That is why nobody gives a damn. "Nobody ELSE gives a damn so why expect me to?" Even when they catch people encroaching golf courses, hotels or shrimp farms on public land they only (sometimes, only eventually, when it gets to be unavoidable) punish the encroacher. Never any mention of which public servant signed off a shonky land transfer or lease agreement. And almost no-one is ever blamed for building collapses or people burning to death in deathtrap buildings without fire escapes, working fire extinguishers or smoke alarms. There has to be a building code somewhere for school buildings, hotels, guesthouses & institutional dormitories!!! Note how every hotel has those exact same types of emergency lights on the stairs and corridors. (Although I'll bet that most of them have not been tested in 5 years or more.) But, it means there is a building code somewhere.

So, there is never any rush to enforce or accept responsibility for any action so, whether it is racing while driving an overloaded school bus or being asleep on duty or in the shower when on duty in a multi-story boarding school dormitory that catches fire, or even being salaried and therefore responsible for being in charge of such a building with no smoke alarms etc, no-one is ever held to be to blame!!!

Add fatalism or predestination to responsibility avoidance and it makes any society a basket case. It means that, not only was it "not my fault" but it was going to happen anyway no matter how careful I was, so why bother, (no point in) even trying to be careful!!! These attitudes explain the lack of safety equipment at workplaces, seatbelts, motor cycle helmets and smoke alarms, etc ad nauseum. I am only a relatively recent resident so forgive me if, to me it seems to be getting worse lately. Perhaps it has never been any better?.........And so often it is innocent children who are the victims because they are not old enough to understand how their lives are being risked.

[smedly]

Number one problem with Thai society. Lack of responsibility for any action taken. It is epidemic through every level of Thai society. That is why nobody gives a damn. "Nobody ELSE gives a damn so why expect me to?" Even when they catch people encroaching golf courses, hotels or shrimp farms on public land they only (sometimes, only eventually, when it gets to be unavoidable) punish the encroacher. Never any mention of which public servant signed off a shonky land transfer or lease agreement. And almost no-one is ever blamed for building collapses or people burning to death in deathtrap buildings without fire escapes, working fire extinguishers or smoke alarms. There has to be a building code somewhere for school buildings, hotels, guesthouses & institutional dormitories!!! Note how every hotel has those exact same types of emergency lights on the stairs and corridors. (Although I'll bet that most of them have not been tested in 5 years or more.) But, it means there is a building code somewhere.

So, there is never any rush to enforce or accept responsibility for any action so, whether it is racing while driving an overloaded school bus or being asleep on duty or in the shower when on duty in a multi-story boarding school dormitory that catches fire, or even being salaried and therefore responsible for being in charge of such a building with no smoke alarms etc, no-one is ever held to be to blame!!!

Add fatalism or predestination to responsibility avoidance and it makes any society a basket case. It means that, not only was it "not my fault" but it was going to happen anyway no matter how careful I was, so why bother, (no point in) even trying to be careful!!! These attitudes explain the lack of safety equipment at workplaces, seatbelts, motor cycle helmets and smoke alarms, etc ad nauseum. I am only a relatively recent resident so forgive me if, to me it seems to be getting worse lately. Perhaps it has never been any better?.........And so often it is innocent children who are the victims because they are not old enough to understand how their lives are being risked.

very sensible post and mostly correct, the problem is that "responsibility" and "standards" cost money, officials that are tasked to enforce regulations like building control face an impossible upward battle usually against powerful people, and when the authorities like police would normally be involved in such matters as threats against such officials they can easily be bought off, ulitimately what this means is that "money" holds the power and these so called influential people or local mafia run the place.

It was suggested by an earlier poster on this thread that these schools are none profit and therefore money has nothing to do with this, well lets take a look at the bank accounts of those involved and see just how financially challenged they are.

This is a very solid 3rd world country - it shouldn't be, Thailand should have matured over the last 40 odd years but it hasn't, it is still in the dark ages and until something is done to combat corruption and properly enforce the law nothing will change, there has never been any incentive from past governments to do something because they are very entrenched in the problem and sit right at the top of the corruption tree enriching themselves, I had hope for the current government to at least make a start in the right direction but now I am not so sure, one thing I am sure of is that any future elected government must be kept under strict observation and control to ensure that they are doing the job they have been elected to do - that would be a first in Thailand

Recently over the last 3 years or so we have seen corruption exposed like never before, people are being punished but it has a long way to go as corruption is so entrenched in Thailand it will take a very long time before people get the message and that message is that people can expect severe punishment going forward for their actions (including those in government) and they will be investigated charged and sent to prison for their greedy corruption and their ill gotten gains seized, it has to start somewhere