Mother in law uk visit visa refused. Thoughts please

[changnaam]

We have just been turned down for a UK visit visa for MIL which was a surprise, and have a few weeks to try again so any advice would be appreciated.

I thought it would be fairly straight forward, wife has a 2 year UK visa, 3 kids with UK / Thai passports and we own our house in UK. Applied for visa for MIL to join us for 2 month summer holiday in UK.

It seems I made a mistake by (being honest) and explaining in application that part of MIL income comes from helping in Thailand with the kids (all under 5) and that every 3 months she comes to visit and stays for a month so we pay her to supplement her income as she has to take time off from her work (farm work).

They have taken this to mean that her reason to visit the uk is to work as a nanny and have refused the visa.

Is it so difficult to get the message across that it would be difficult for my wife to mange with 3 kids under 5 for the whole school holiday and having grandmother come along would not be classed as working.

I cannot take 2 months off work so have to travel back to Thailand for my work, and will return at the end of the holiday to collect them.

I will be flying both flights with the family, they would not be going alone.

The main points for refusal were

1) that the stay was 2 months

2) they suspect grandma would be working.

Any thoughts for resubmission would be appreciated. I plan to counter their arguments and explain more about 2 months (length of school holiday / chance for kids to learn more about their other country) and the fact that MIL is coming to simply be part of family and help her daughter but not sure if this would be enough?

[wooloomooloo]

... and that every 3 months she comes to visit and stays for a month so we pay her to supplement her income as she has to take time off from her work (farm work).

Are you bonkers or am I missing something? Sorry to be so terse, but this is madness if I am correct in my understanding.

There is no way on this planet that MIL will gain regular visit visas if the above quote is correct and true.

[changnaam]

Sorry don't get your point.......

MIL comes to help with her grandchildren every 3 months and we give her some money to cover bills?

Take it you have never looked after 3 young children before?

[johnatong]

I think the more you "explain" the deeper the hole will become.

Many people with 3 young children "manage" without having to import a Granny.

The reasons for the "visit" and RETURN are weak in my opinion.

[wooloomooloo]

Take it you have never looked after 3 young children before?

Don't insult me as I'm trying to help you, changnaam. In other words, don't shoot the messenger.

As much as I sympathise with your nursery care difficulties, you are totally screwed if you believe that you can import grandma every three months.

Pay up the going rate in the UK, as that is the best you're going to achieve. Tsk.

Edited June 1, 2016 by wooloomooloo

[changnaam]

Reason for visit and return are pretty simple. We have done same for past 4 years, kids have to return for start of international school year. Have bills to show.

Maybe

Like we leave gran in UK to fend for herself when kids go back to school?

[wooloomooloo]

Like we leave gran in UK to fend for herself when kids go back to school?

Unless gran is settled permanently in the UK then you are talking nonsense. Sorry.

[changnaam]

Take it you have never looked after 3 young children before?

Don't insult me as I'm trying to help you, changnaam. In other words, don't shoot the messenger.

As much as I sympathise with your nursery care difficulties, you are totally screwed if you believe that you can import grandma every three months.

Pay up the going rate in the UK, as that is the best you're going to achieve. Tsk.

I think you are missing the point. Not trying to import grandma every 3 months. We live in Thailand, go to UK for summer hols but I cannot stay whole 2 months. Want to take grandma for the holiday and then all return to Thailand for start of next school year.

Not insulting you btw, you suggested I was "bonkers"

[bobrussell]

Replace grandmother with any other family member or friend and it quickly becomes clear that you are 'employing' someone to care for children. It may not be proper wages but is likely to be seen as work by an ECO.

Not sure how you get round this one. The damage is really done.

Perhaps reapplication with an apology for causing confusion. Your mother in law is coming for a holiday and to see her grandchildren. The original application was badly worded and you can understand why it was misinterpreted. You will provide all accommodation, food and entertainment expenses.

I very much doubt it will work but you may catch an ECO on a good day!

[wooloomooloo]

Let's take this a step further, now that you've applied on the condition of the OP, then any further application is going to be scrutinised based on the original refusal.

You've worked yourselves in to a corner now, and very hard to get out of it.

[wooloomooloo]

I think you are missing the point. Not trying to import grandma every 3 months. We live in Thailand, go to UK for summer hols but I cannot stay whole 2 months. Want to take grandma for the holiday and then all return to Thailand for start of next school year.

Not insulting you btw, you suggested I was "bonkers"

Don't Thai me, ha ha. You stated that you import gran every three months for one month. Yes, bonkers.

[changnaam]

Just to make sure I made my point correctly.

Mother in law usually leaves her work every 3 months to stay at our home in Thailand for a month and we support her while she stays with us. So the assumption by UK is that she will be working if she joins us in UK for holidays. Not trying to import her every 3 months to be a nanny in UK.

[changnaam]

Thanks bobrussell that is what I was thinking. Maybe I was not clear enough in original application and will try to re word / explain more detail.

We may move back to UK so would be nice for grandma to see where grand kids will end up, have an understanding of what their future will bring. They just seemed to have latched onto "working" .

I certainly don't think reason to return is an issue, or financials but could have worded application better.

[wooloomooloo]

Your story is all over the place now, but I forgive you. It's still not a good place to be in after the refusal.

Extremely hard to wriggle out of this one going forward.

So difficult that you might as well employ the services of a lawyer and hope for the best. Do you understand now?

[changnaam]

Your story is all over the place now, but I forgive you. It's still not a good place to be in after the refusal.

Extremely hard to wriggle out of this one going forward.

So difficult that you might as well employ the services of a lawyer and hope for the best. Do you understand now?

I think the story is fairly clear, for a "Pom" anyway , assume you were brought up in the eastern "burbs" I can understand it would be tough. Thanks for your input.

Can you help with a lawyer?

Only pulling your leg btw,

[wooloomooloo]

I reckon you're pulling all our legs.

[johnatong]

I reckon you're pulling all our legs.

Interesting that the OP has chosen to ignore post No 4

[changnaam]

Sorry John did not see much need to respond.

The need to take grandma with us to uk for 2 months when I will have to return to work and we have 3 children under 5 to look after is our decision, if you think it is not warranted or lazy up to you.

Reason for return is a non issue which I answered already. Do you really think a 50 something Thai lady would want to remain in UK when the other 5 members of her family return to work and school after holiday???

[Briggsy]

Contact your MP. They'll swing it.

[kwak250]

If i was trying to get my mother-in-law refused entry into the U.K then this is exactly how i would have done it.

Even saying to your wife you will check on the thaivisa forum for a solution is genuis.

If you actually are genuinely trying to get a visa for your Mil why on earth would you say you are going to basically employ her as a nanny?

[robertthebruce]

Contact your MP. They'll swing it.

I got,a letter from my MP , and that did the trick...

Well worth the effort....

[English Engineer]

Mother inLaw refused a UK visa

The reason the visa was refused is that you were offering employment i.e working as a nanny. Working is not permitted under the rules. You simply should have stated you MIL was coming for a holiday to see her grand children. Any gift you chose to make did not need to be declared. Financially you guarratee to provide support for her air fare and her stay. Regarding re application it is now difficult because of the rejection. You can make a new application but there is little gain in employing a lawyer.

[colinneil]

M.I.L. refused visa !!WOW!! you lucky man.

I wish i could get rid of my outlaws.

Edited June 2, 2016 by colinneil

[manarak]

that's another thread explaining well how stupid Western visa policies can be.

[sanukjim]

Sorry don't get your point.......

MIL comes to help with her grandchildren every 3 months and we give her some money to cover bills?

Take it you have never looked after 3 young children before?

And this statement says that "she is working" as your nanny . I doubt if you ever get her a visa as this will be on file for the next interview if you even get one.

[manarak]

Sorry don't get your point.......

MIL comes to help with her grandchildren every 3 months and we give her some money to cover bills?

Take it you have never looked after 3 young children before?

And this statement says that "she is working" as your nanny . I doubt if you ever get her a visa as this will be on file for the next interview if you even get one.

yes, and this policy is totally stupid.

[wooloomooloo]

Contact your MP. They'll swing it.

I got,a letter from my MP , and that did the trick...

Well worth the effort....

The OP could get a letter from Winston Churchill and it still wouldn't do the trick. Unfortunately, the die is cast.

[DipStick]

Without doubt your wording on the application was naive and you have certainly dug a hole for yourself. But saying that, I live in China, am married to a Chinese, who now holds a five year tourist uk visa, last year we took her Chinese parents to the uk and they were issued a 12 month multi entry.

The correct filling out of the application forms is critical, as is the presentation of other required documents such as financial statements etc.keep things to the minimum don't over elaborate.

[Baerboxer]

I take it you live in Thailand and your children attend school here. You maintain a property in the UK and wish to visit for a holiday during the school holidays. Maximum stay would be 2 months. You and your children are British citizens with British passports. Your wife has a Thai passport and currently has a 2 year visa. You want to take your MiL with you on holiday and will ensure she returns when you do. End of.

Whether you pay her for helping looking after the kids, or giver her spending money to treat her whilst on holiday is f/all to do with anybody. Unless of course, you decide to put that in your visa application and make the ECO wonder if she's actually your employee and start imagining things.

A friend in the UK had 3 young children. Quite frankly his Thai wife made little if any attempt to cope herself, always preferring to pay relatives. He brought a sister over, she went back. He bought another sister, she went back. Then he applied for a visa for her brother, the children's maternal uncle ans was refused. He appealed and it eventually went in front of a judge. The Home Office person explained why they had decided that they still wouldn't grant the visa. My friend said O K but it was his right to appeal which he exercised. At which point the judge spoke and said that actually it was his decision not theirs, and that he had decided the visa should be allowed. The Uncle visited more than once, was great with the kids and did odd jobs around the property going back home with more than he came with. Had he have told them he was going to employ his brother-in-law as a handyman, nanny and child minder he would have not been successful.

[changnaam]

Baerboxer appreciate your comments, yes you have hit the nail on the head. Thought I was talking a different language here so thanks for that. In hind sight I should have never mentioned that she comes to help sometimes and we give her some money as she has to take time away from her normal job.

I think it can be explained and express the importance of grandma coming to UK to see where her grandkids will potentially end up in the future. I am sure they will see sense and yes I did not explain it correctly first time around but live and learn !!

​Lets see what the second application brings.