New Brexit polls suggest shift in favour of leaving the EU

[SgtRock]

1 Million pensioners in (if that is the case) and 4 million plus Migrants out. that's a good deal I reckon. at least the 1 million pensioners paid into it all their lives which the immigrants have not.

4 million migrants out is probably the dumbest comment in the whole of this thread. Your racism and lgnorance on how the British economy is dependent on the immigrant workforce is truly scary.

'' lgnorance on how the British economy is dependent on the immigrant workforce is truly scary. ''

I do not know how many times this has to be pointed out to you.

Low paid migrants are a drain on the UK economy.

Today, in the UK, anyone who earns less than £ 28,000 is a drain on the UK. Thanks to the madness that is called Welfare.

[nontabury]

Very much a UK problem.....

Percentage wise. Can you please provide the numbers for those Brits living in the EU who claim state benefits,compared with the amount claimed by EU citizens in the UK.

P.s. I think you'll find,that a large number of those British citizens living in R.O.I are in fact duel,citizens.

Edited June 22, 2016 by nontabury

[Orac]

Very much a UK problem.....

Percentage wise. Can you please provide the numbers for those Brits living in the EU who claim state benefits,compared with the amount claimed by EU citizens in the UK.

I would be interested in seeing that as well and, to be fair, how much tax they directly pay in those countries against the 20bn pounds more tax than benefits that EU immigrants pay in the UK.

[pitrevie]

This speech by a famous Englishman could have been written last week about the EU and its bureaucrats.

"It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turn'd the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.

In the name of God, go"!
 
Oliver Cromwell - April 20, 1653

As an admirer of Cromwell and what he achieved but the result of that speech was that a military dictatorship took over.

[nontabury]

Any decision on Brexit will last for decades, but most of the people voting for Brexit will be dead by then.

And as for yourself. Where will you be living in a decade from now. And as you have been asked before,but not answered,Where do you come from, and do you have close relations in the U.K who will be affected by present and future legislation coming out of Brussells,or on those 4 days a week Strasberg.

[Ace of Pop]

If I was an Old Brit with not long to live,I'd vote to stay in,just to nobble the Scrounger Lefties when they are old and dictated to by Some tin pot Euro Dictatorship full of School Teachers to idle to work a Mans Job. .Apologies to genuine Teachers who get mistaken for the Bums from the UK,ex Irish Barmen etc

[SgtRock]

Very much a UK problem.....

Percentage wise. Can you please provide the numbers for those Brits living in the EU who claim state benefits,compared with the amount claimed by EU citizens in the UK.

P.s. I think you'll find,that a large number of those British citizens living in R.O.I are in fact duel,citizens.

This might help you. Only covers unemployment benefit and not a whole raft of associated benefits.

EU_Unemployment_Datablog_do.bmp

Or the table can be seen here if this cannot be opened.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu

[Johnyo]

1 Million pensioners in (if that is the case) and 4 million plus Migrants out. that's a good deal I reckon. at least the 1 million pensioners paid into it all their lives which the immigrants have not.

4 million migrants out is probably the dumbest comment in the whole of this thread. Your racism and lgnorance on how the British economy is dependent on the immigrant workforce is truly scary.

'' lgnorance on how the British economy is dependent on the immigrant workforce is truly scary. ''

I do not know how many times this has to be pointed out to you.

article-2215070-156C345A000005DC-652_634x228.jpg

Low paid migrants are a drain on the UK economy.

Today, in the UK, anyone who earns less than £ 28,000 is a drain on the UK. Thanks to the madness that is called Welfare.

You really have to take a step back, look at the history of immigration in the UK. If you were to kick out 4 million migrants out of the country right now and substitute them by 1 million pensioners as Laughing Gravy mentions the economy would simply collapse, The NHS would have such a shortage of workers it would go into meltdown.

[nontabury]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/21/waste-cash-leavers-in-out-land-subsidie

[SgtRock]

I do not know how many times this has to be pointed out to you.

article-2215070-156C345A000005DC-652_634x228.jpg

Low paid migrants are a drain on the UK economy.

Today, in the UK, anyone who earns less than £ 28,000 is a drain on the UK. Thanks to the madness that is called Welfare.

You really have to take a step back, look at the history of immigration in the UK. If you were to kick out 4 million migrants out of the country right now and substitute them by 1 million pensioners as Laughing Gravy mentions the economy would simply collapse, The NHS would have such a shortage of workers it would go into meltdown.

Can you provide a link to anyone, Politician or someone in Authority that has advocated kicking out 4 million migrants ?

Asking for controlled migration does not equate to kicking people out.

It was a nice attempt at deflecting from what I actually posted.

F for Fail

[nontabury]

We keep hearing about our daily contribution of £55,000,000 to the EU, and as correctly pointed out, how the EU then returns approx 17 million to be spent as they decide in the UK. So where does this money go to?

And why is it's destination not reported, even by supporters.of Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/21/waste-cash-leavers-in-out-land-subsidie

[SgtRock]

We keep hearing about our daily contribution of £55,000,000 to the EU, and as correctly pointed out, how the EU then returns approx 17 million to be spent as they decide in the UK. So where does this money go to?

And why is it's destination not reported, even by supporters.of Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/21/waste-cash-leavers-in-out-land-subsidie

You have to go to the gutter press to see where the money goes. Certain people need info to be kept hidden. As I keep saying, there are too many hidden / indirect costs that the remainiacs do not want to touch with a barge pole or want to keep hidden at all costs.

Here is just one of them. You should also check out the subsidies that he received from wind farming.

Sir Reginald Adrian Berkeley Sheffield, 8th Baronet, receives eye-watering sums of money from Brussels to help fund the upkeep of his sprawling Lincolnshire estate.

The aristocrat, who is the father of Samantha Cameron, is just one of a number of wealthy landowners who get huge pots of cash paid out by the EU's controversial Common Agricultural Policy (CAP).

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/670181/saantha-cameron-father-david-reginald-sheffield-millions-eu-subsidies

[rijit]

Our government(s) may not be the best that we could hope for but at least we can vote them out every 5 years or so if we disagree with what they are doing. You cannot vote out autocrats in Brussels whose dictatorship is backed by an E.U. judicial system that generally votes in their favour and can even override democracies.

Freedom for the U.K. and its people to vote who they want to lead them is a great reason to vote LEAVE.

Why do we have to listen to these unelected officials that we cannot vote out. WE the people did not ask them to rule over us and also lord it over us with their grand ideas that have little to do with what the general public want or desire.

Will it be an easy ride when we do LEAVE? No, I do not suppose it will be in the short term. But we have always been an independent sovereign nation that had had democracy at its heart for centuries and we have always done well before the E.U. and we can do so again in the longer term

FREEDOM !!!

Vote LEAVE and let the E.U. crumble as other countries follow our lead.

Freedom Jingoistic nonsense, . The only thing garunteed on leaving for the average person is a.garunteed recession which will mean job losses more expensive goods in the supermarket More expensive.travel and overall a recession that will be very difficult to get out

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[rijit]

Our government(s) may not be the best that we could hope for but at least we can vote them out every 5 years or so if we disagree with what they are doing. You cannot vote out autocrats in Brussels whose dictatorship is backed by an E.U. judicial system that generally votes in their favour and can even override democracies.

Freedom for the U.K. and its people to vote who they want to lead them is a great reason to vote LEAVE.

Why do we have to listen to these unelected officials that we cannot vote out. WE the people did not ask them to rule over us and also lord it over us with their grand ideas that have little to do with what the general public want or desire.

Will it be an easy ride when we do LEAVE? No, I do not suppose it will be in the short term. But we have always been an independent sovereign nation that had had democracy at its heart for centuries and we have always done well before the E.U. and we can do so again in the longer term

FREEDOM !!!

Vote LEAVE and let the E.U. crumble as other countries follow our lead.

Freedom Jingoistic nonsense speeled by the.likes of opportunistic politicians like Boris Johnson who gives a.flying about nothing but boris and his career , . The only thing garunteed on leaving for the average person is a.garunteed recession which will mean job losses more expensive goods in the supermarket More expensive.travel and overall a recession that will be very difficult to get out.

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[kingalfred]

Cameron talks about voting with our children in mind, the future should be in the hands of our children , not an EU commission and EU ministers. In other words not foreigners deciding laws for the UK

[kingalfred]

Andrew Neil on Twitter: "Germany delays white paper calling for push towards European army including joint headquarters + shared military assets, until after June 23"

[kingalfred]

Our government(s) may not be the best that we could hope for but at least we can vote them out every 5 years or so if we disagree with what they are doing. You cannot vote out autocrats in Brussels whose dictatorship is backed by an E.U. judicial system that generally votes in their favour and can even override democracies.

Freedom for the U.K. and its people to vote who they want to lead them is a great reason to vote LEAVE.

Why do we have to listen to these unelected officials that we cannot vote out. WE the people did not ask them to rule over us and also lord it over us with their grand ideas that have little to do with what the general public want or desire.

Will it be an easy ride when we do LEAVE? No, I do not suppose it will be in the short term. But we have always been an independent sovereign nation that had had democracy at its heart for centuries and we have always done well before the E.U. and we can do so again in the longer term

FREEDOM !!!

Vote LEAVE and let the E.U. crumble as other countries follow our lead.

Freedom Jingoistic nonsense speeled by the.likes of opportunistic politicians like Boris Johnson who gives a.flying about nothing but boris and his career , . The only thing garunteed on leaving for the average person is a.garunteed recession which will mean job losses more expensive goods in the supermarket More expensive.travel and overall a recession that will be very difficult to get out.

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the lies you want folk to believe!

[SheungWan]

If I was an Old Brit with not long to live,I'd vote to stay in,just to nobble the Scrounger Lefties when they are old and dictated to by Some tin pot Euro Dictatorship full of School Teachers to idle to work a Mans Job. .Apologies to genuine Teachers who get mistaken for the Bums from the UK,ex Irish Barmen etc

Albert Steptoe speaks out.

Edited June 22, 2016 by SheungWan

[Mosha]

All those pensioners in Spain will lose their healthcare and maybe even their right to a pension overseas

NOT UK folks problem......

Typical dumb comment. You want 1M pensioners returning to UK? How much stress would that put on the NHS?

If they aren't registered in the UK, they'll be paying 150% of the costs to use the NHS.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Edited June 22, 2016 by Mosha

[nontabury]

Our government(s) may not be the best that we could hope for but at least we can vote them out every 5 years or so if we disagree with what they are doing. You cannot vote out autocrats in Brussels whose dictatorship is backed by an E.U. judicial system that generally votes in their favour and can even override democracies.

Freedom for the U.K. and its people to vote who they want to lead them is a great reason to vote LEAVE.

Why do we have to listen to these unelected officials that we cannot vote out. WE the people did not ask them to rule over us and also lord it over us with their grand ideas that have little to do with what the general public want or desire.

Will it be an easy ride when we do LEAVE? No, I do not suppose it will be in the short term. But we have always been an independent sovereign nation that had had democracy at its heart for centuries and we have always done well before the E.U. and we can do so again in the longer term

FREEDOM !!!

Vote LEAVE and let the E.U. crumble as other countries follow our lead.

Freedom Jingoistic nonsense speeled by the.likes of opportunistic politicians like Boris Johnson who gives a.flying about nothing but boris and his career , . The only thing garunteed on leaving for the average person is a.garunteed recession which will mean job losses more expensive goods in the supermarket More expensive.travel and overall a recession that will be very difficult to get out.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Scare stories without any supporting facts. Regarding supermarket prices, well if you're referring to foods, I think you'll find in the event of Brexit. The U.K. would then be able to buy on the world market,without the imput of the Brusells autocrats, thus leading to a fall in the cost of many food items.

[Laughing Gravy]

To Johnyo

First of all I did not mention kicking them all out at once eventually that on a point based system, retain those of value. As for the NHS nurses and doctors from outside the EU are as good if not better. For the future we could train our own citizens for the NHS. All my friends in the NHS like in education, say the same. The NHS and schools are overloaded due to migrants and their families. They are at breaking point and unsustainable and it is getting worse by the day. The governments attempts to reduce this has failed and the attempt to get a better deal was laughed at by the EU.

[SgtRock]

This remainer hits the nail on the head.

The argument that gets under my skin, the itch I must scratch before polling day, is made by liberal, internationalist leavers (who should be feeling sullied by complicity with the tactics their official campaign has deployed). It is this: what if we accept that the EU fulfilled its mission to neutralise the ancient bellicosity of rival nations, but then lost its way so badly that the benefits are being reversed? What if the project of integration that was meant to inoculate Europe’s tribes against national chauvinism has been driven too far, so that it has become, instead, an incubator hatching the beast it wanted to slay.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/22/eu-european-union-withdrawal

This is exactly what the EU has become.

[rijit]

Our government(s) may not be the best that we could hope for but at least we can vote them out every 5 years or so if we disagree with what they are doing. You cannot vote out autocrats in Brussels whose dictatorship is backed by an E.U. judicial system that generally votes in their favour and can even override democracies.

Freedom for the U.K. and its people to vote who they want to lead them is a great reason to vote LEAVE.

Why do we have to listen to these unelected officials that we cannot vote out. WE the people did not ask them to rule over us and also lord it over us with their grand ideas that have little to do with what the general public want or desire.

Will it be an easy ride when we do LEAVE? No, I do not suppose it will be in the short term. But we have always been an independent sovereign nation that had had democracy at its heart for centuries and we have always done well before the E.U. and we can do so again in the longer term

FREEDOM !!!

Vote LEAVE and let the E.U. crumble as other countries follow our lead.

Freedom Jingoistic nonsense speeled by the.likes of opportunistic politicians like Boris Johnson who gives a.flying about nothing but boris and his career , . The only thing garunteed on leaving for the average person is a.garunteed recession which will mean job losses more expensive goods in the supermarket More expensive.travel and overall a recession that will be very difficult to get out.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rijit]

Our government(s) may not be the best that we could hope for but at least we can vote them out every 5 years or so if we disagree with what they are doing. You cannot vote out autocrats in Brussels whose dictatorship is backed by an E.U. judicial system that generally votes in their favour and can even override democracies.

Freedom for the U.K. and its people to vote who they want to lead them is a great reason to vote LEAVE.

Why do we have to listen to these unelected officials that we cannot vote out. WE the people did not ask them to rule over us and also lord it over us with their grand ideas that have little to do with what the general public want or desire.

Will it be an easy ride when we do LEAVE? No, I do not suppose it will be in the short term. But we have always been an independent sovereign nation that had had democracy at its heart for centuries and we have always done well before the E.U. and we can do so again in the longer term

FREEDOM !!!

Vote LEAVE and let the E.U. crumble as other countries follow our lead.

Freedom Jingoistic nonsense speeled by the.likes of opportunistic politicians like Boris Johnson who gives a.flying about nothing but boris and his career , . The only thing garunteed on leaving for the average person is a.garunteed recession which will mean job losses more expensive goods in the supermarket More expensive.travel and overall a recession that will be very difficult to get out.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Scare stories without any supporting facts. Regarding supermarket prices, well if you're referring to foods, I think you'll find in the event of Brexit. The U.K. would then be able to buy on the world market,without the imput of the Brusells autocrats, thus leading to a fall in the cost of many food items.

Again Nonsense a weakened pound will push the supermarket prices up and cost the man on the street

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[Thaiwine]

To Johnyo

First of all I did not mention kicking them all out at once eventually that on a point based system, retain those of value. As for the NHS nurses and doctors from outside the EU are as good if not better. For the future we could train our own citizens for the NHS. All my friends in the NHS like in education, say the same. The NHS and schools are overloaded due to migrants and their families. They are at breaking point and unsustainable and it is getting worse by the day. The governments attempts to reduce this has failed and the attempt to get a better deal was laughed at by the EU.

And the NHS is in a very real danger from ttip if we stay in the EU.

[JB300]

All those pensioners in Spain will lose their healthcare and maybe even their right to a pension overseas

NOT UK folks problem......

Typical dumb comment. You want 1M pensioners returning to UK? How much stress would that put on the NHS?

If they aren't registered in the UK, they'll be paying 150% of the costs to use the NHS.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Presumably they'd be "resuming settled residence" in the UK so would be eligible for free NHS from the moment they arrive

[Orac]

I quite liked this article on Brexit. It hasn't convinced me to change my mind about voting in but it was food for thought.

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/21/11974600/brexit-eu-euro-disaster

[SgtRock]

I quite liked this article on Brexit. It hasn't convinced me to change my mind about voting in but it was food for thought.

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/21/11974600/brexit-eu-euro-disaster

No intention of trying to sway you one way or another. Probably too late anyway.

You should read this by the same person from 2014.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10935617/After-2020-all-EU-members-will-have-to-adopt-the-euro.html

It then might be a good idea to familiarise yourself with what is going to happen, starting in 2020 by voting to remain.

Edited June 22, 2016 by SgtRock

[stag4]

Our government(s) may not be the best that we could hope for but at least we can vote them out every 5 years or so if we disagree with what they are doing. You cannot vote out autocrats in Brussels whose dictatorship is backed by an E.U. judicial system that generally votes in their favour and can even override democracies.

Freedom for the U.K. and its people to vote who they want to lead them is a great reason to vote LEAVE.

Why do we have to listen to these unelected officials that we cannot vote out. WE the people did not ask them to rule over us and also lord it over us with their grand ideas that have little to do with what the general public want or desire.

Will it be an easy ride when we do LEAVE? No, I do not suppose it will be in the short term. But we have always been an independent sovereign nation that had had democracy at its heart for centuries and we have always done well before the E.U. and we can do so again in the longer term

FREEDOM !!!

Vote LEAVE and let the E.U. crumble as other countries follow our lead.

Freedom Jingoistic nonsense speeled by the.likes of opportunistic politicians like Boris Johnson who gives a.flying about nothing but boris and his career , . The only thing garunteed on leaving for the average person is a.garunteed recession which will mean job losses more expensive goods in the supermarket More expensive.travel and overall a recession that will be very difficult to get out.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Andrew Neil debunked the recession fear mongering on Politics Today show

2008 Financial crisis caused a 7% loss of GDP.

Treasury report on effects of leaving EU only predicts a 0.1% loss of GDP for four quarters and that is assuming the government does nothing to counter and takes no remedial action.

[Orac]

I quite liked this article on Brexit. It hasn't convinced me to change my mind about voting in but it was food for thought.

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/21/11974600/brexit-eu-euro-disaster

No intention of trying to sway you one way or another. Probably too late anyway.

You should read this by the same person from 2014.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10935617/After-2020-all-EU-members-will-have-to-adopt-the-euro.html

It then might be a good idea to familiarise yourself with what is going to happen, starting in 2020 by voting to remain.

It says pretty much the same thing and, though positive, I would be very surprised if the EU could pull it off even if the UK walked out.

To me the main, but not only issue, is the effect on trade over the medium/long term (5-10 years) which I believe would be significantly impacted should we leave.

As for what is happens in 2020, I am not entirely sure what is being alluded to since, although the year keeps being constantly brought up, it has always been couched in the terms of 'you had better find out' or 'good idea to familiarise yourself' rather than any substance to what is being referred to so a link would be helpful. Should the UK find itself in a position in the future which significantly changes our relationship with the EU, being forced to join the euro for example, then i would be very surprised if it would not be put to a referendum again where we would vote to leave. It is a very different kettle of fish for us to leave because of change being forced on us and would lead to a divorce by mutual understanding with a negotiated settlement rather than a bitter slugfest should we walk out.