Start a mixed farm in Isaan

WishWashMan · June 5, 2016

Lets work backwards. How much does it cost to open a 7-11 in the boonies. OP can then figure how much eggs he needs to sell or how many papayas he needs to grow.

I think a lot of people have 5-10 rai of land. They just aint making money off of it.

CLW · June 6, 2016

I can remember there is / was a Thai video on YouTube how to make 100k per year from 10 rai mixed farming under irrigation. If you search in Thai can find it

Jotham79 · June 6, 2016

I will agree that there are a lot of ways to lose money farming, but it is certainly not impossible to make money. There has been a lot of good advice and some not so good. I have lost more than my share of money farming in Thailand and know why it happened. I think you have a very interesting project. I have done everything over the last 20 years here on your list except grapes, lychee, rambutan, mangosteen, mulberry, roselle, pigs, and earth worms, but have done prawns, frogs, quail and a few other crops and fruits (and have forgot some). With enough work almost everything you are doing can be profitable. Here are some thoughts I have in no particular order and forgive me if you are doing them already:

Consider adding a small rice mill. Around here the operator gets the rice polishings and the rice hulls. This gives you a supplemental income in the form of the rice polishings that can be sold or feed to your animals. And the rice hulls could be composted to return organic materials to your soil.

I will predict that you will have problems with grapes, durian.

I would reduce or eliminate Mangosteen, rambutan, lychee, ma fie, but not til you see if they are good producers. See my next point.

Learn how to air layer and graft and make your own trees to sell. Double grafting is even better and more profitable. Thing about every tree you bought. Your work, only a little space and a good return. Seed papaya, and seed other shrubs and clone bamboo and bananas.

Add a Thai Grapefruit tree to clone from.

Add manila tamarind. They will do especially well around your ponds. Fish love fruit that falls and so do chickens and ducks that free range. You have to make sure you get a good strain so look at the fruit on the parent stock

Add1-2 Kaffir lime or more.

Basil will grow right up alongside a building. Grow extra to feed your livestock. Look at other herbs.

Add Putsa Apple.

Add as many water collection jars as is practical to every building.

Consider some concrete rings to raise catfish but I would stick with Big Oui (I have never had pla duck Russia grow well). There is also a strain of climbing perch that is promising and I am trying to get a small sample to try out. I would also consider one crop of pla duk a year in the smaller pond nearer you house. Drain it to fill the other

I would look for the best strain of tilapia you can find and raise them in nets. Throw some Pla Sawai in the ponds if you like to eat them, but not too many. I love hamook.

Geese are hard to make money on, but a couple out on your ponds will let you know if you have visitors. If you are well respected in the village, you will have less loss. A mean dog won’t hurt either.

Consider getting a small plot and opening a market. Put in a covered structure and run power and build some stalls. Let everyone use it for free for a while and use it yourself. It can be as simple or fancy as you think will work.

I would probably opt to pass on Yasohotin. It will cost you about 100 baht per trip and rental on a stall. You are better off building a quality operation and selling as much as you can in the local market which will get more locals to know about your farm and lead to walk in customers. A consistent presence will be rewarded.

Look at making your own poultry feed. Consider dropping chickens except for your own use. I am working on a layer/ gai ban cross that is a good layer of small to medium eggs, and meats out more like a gai ban. Put the hens with gai ban roosters and you can make money selling for meat. I would go with Pekin ducks and may be start with a few on your ponds. If you must have laying chickens buy good POL pullets, then cage/coop raise them. Free ranging or just letting them wander around a yard is a money loser.

Consider quail. I can give you a lot of info on this. Per square meter you will make more than chicken or ducks.

Consider crickets. It was a fad years ago and I thought it died out, but two local feed stores in Petchabun are selling cricket feed bulk. I haven’t done it, but it would be something to look at.

The Santol makes a good border for a field or road. Consider drip tape.

Put Papaya around your young fruit trees to shade them some while they are young. Some folks use bananas

Prik Keenu will grow well in the shade of bananas and papayas.

Forget crops for farang like zucchini, strawberries, bell peppers, head lettuce ect…. At least in the beginning .

Learn about drip tape (not the same as the hose type irrigation) and plastic mulch. It is used on melons and other crops. You will use a lot less water.

You tube and Facebook can be your friend. You are a lot more likely to find people doing exactly the same crop(s) as you and over time will help you advertise.

Going organic can be the right thing to do, but most of your local buyers will not pay a premium. Initially it is important to compete on a fair footing.

We have 2 rose apple trees and the wife planted a bunch of chillis around one and it had considerably few pests. I hear that chrysanthemums do the same.

A light over your pond may help a few pest to become fish food and may discourage visitors.

Keeping records will be a valuable exercise over time. Note weekly market prices for crops you are thinking about and when the high prices tend to occur….New Years, Songkran, Chinese New Years, when schools are open or closed. Obviously high prices can mean it is the wrong time a year or it could mean too much water is needed. Once you are running keep detailed costs and income records. When possible track a particular crop just to see what is happening.

I have forgotten at least this much and will let you know if anything comes to me.

Just to be clear, I am not recommending you do all or any particular activities, you will have to set your goals andlimits. I think you are someone who likes to learn and this will be a fun process. Something that works in one place may not work for you and vice versa. You do not need to explain yourself to naysayers. It is easy to say something can’t happen and impossible to prove it. Search for people that have similar experience that are willing to share and have fun.

Chok Dee

Pardon me but nowhere in this post does it say I Made a Killing Farming in thailand.

Never take advice from a fat man on how to lose weight.

Nowhere in this thread does it say anything about making a killing farming. I have never claimed to make a killing in faming, but here is what I will claim:

I have farmed longer than you in Thailand.

I have more land than you.

I have lost more money farming different crops and livestock than you (meaning I know a lot more than you about what doesn't work and why)

I have made more money than you farming.

Never listen to a man who doesn't farm about farming

timberpond · June 6, 2016

Mr. Kie did mentioned that he figured out that his biggest expenditure is food and by doing this, it subsidize his expenses by a huge leap. The key is not making more, it's spending less.

colinneil · June 6, 2016

I have read all the comments here. Some interesting, some rubbish.

I think you can make some money from farming on a small parcel of land.

In my case as most members know i am paraplegic, so all my labours are done from my wheelchair.

We grow organic veg/ pla duk/ bantams/ crickets.

My wife helps when she is not at school.

All Thais eat pla duk, we cannot grow them fast enough, Thais also love crickets, same problem cannot grow fast enough.

Organic veg only enough for our own use, and giving to family/friends ( due to my disability).

Before my accident we were growing a lot more veg (2 rai) no problem selling produce.

Gary A · June 6, 2016

I know an old couple who do make a living from a one rai garden. They use no chemicals or commercial fertilizer. They don't call their produce organic because they raise their produce the same as they always have. Their daughter takes the produce to the local fresh market and she always sells out because people know how the vegetables are grown. No way would young people work as hard as these old people. Insects are picked off the plants by hand. Weeds are pulled out of the ground by hand, bagged and composted. I don't know how much they earn but I do know that I couldn't live off what they earn. They do get along just fine because they never had much and don't need much.

People talk about earning 100,000 baht a year from their farms. The question is whether or not you can live on 100,000 baht a year. That would last us about 3 months. We have our own rice, fruit, eggs, chickens and whatever fish have not been stolen.

WishWashMan · June 6, 2016

I will agree that there are a lot of ways to lose money farming, but it is certainly not impossible to make money. There has been a lot of good advice and some not so good. I have lost more than my share of money farming in Thailand and know why it happened. I think you have a very interesting project. I have done everything over the last 20 years here on your list except grapes, lychee, rambutan, mangosteen, mulberry, roselle, pigs, and earth worms, but have done prawns, frogs, quail and a few other crops and fruits (and have forgot some). With enough work almost everything you are doing can be profitable. Here are some thoughts I have in no particular order and forgive me if you are doing them already:

Consider adding a small rice mill. Around here the operator gets the rice polishings and the rice hulls. This gives you a supplemental income in the form of the rice polishings that can be sold or feed to your animals. And the rice hulls could be composted to return organic materials to your soil.

I will predict that you will have problems with grapes, durian.

I would reduce or eliminate Mangosteen, rambutan, lychee, ma fie, but not til you see if they are good producers. See my next point.

Learn how to air layer and graft and make your own trees to sell. Double grafting is even better and more profitable. Thing about every tree you bought. Your work, only a little space and a good return. Seed papaya, and seed other shrubs and clone bamboo and bananas.

Add a Thai Grapefruit tree to clone from.

Add manila tamarind. They will do especially well around your ponds. Fish love fruit that falls and so do chickens and ducks that free range. You have to make sure you get a good strain so look at the fruit on the parent stock

Add1-2 Kaffir lime or more.

Basil will grow right up alongside a building. Grow extra to feed your livestock. Look at other herbs.

Add Putsa Apple.

Add as many water collection jars as is practical to every building.

Consider some concrete rings to raise catfish but I would stick with Big Oui (I have never had pla duck Russia grow well). There is also a strain of climbing perch that is promising and I am trying to get a small sample to try out. I would also consider one crop of pla duk a year in the smaller pond nearer you house. Drain it to fill the other

I would look for the best strain of tilapia you can find and raise them in nets. Throw some Pla Sawai in the ponds if you like to eat them, but not too many. I love hamook.

Geese are hard to make money on, but a couple out on your ponds will let you know if you have visitors. If you are well respected in the village, you will have less loss. A mean dog won’t hurt either.

Consider getting a small plot and opening a market. Put in a covered structure and run power and build some stalls. Let everyone use it for free for a while and use it yourself. It can be as simple or fancy as you think will work.

I would probably opt to pass on Yasohotin. It will cost you about 100 baht per trip and rental on a stall. You are better off building a quality operation and selling as much as you can in the local market which will get more locals to know about your farm and lead to walk in customers. A consistent presence will be rewarded.

Look at making your own poultry feed. Consider dropping chickens except for your own use. I am working on a layer/ gai ban cross that is a good layer of small to medium eggs, and meats out more like a gai ban. Put the hens with gai ban roosters and you can make money selling for meat. I would go with Pekin ducks and may be start with a few on your ponds. If you must have laying chickens buy good POL pullets, then cage/coop raise them. Free ranging or just letting them wander around a yard is a money loser.

Consider quail. I can give you a lot of info on this. Per square meter you will make more than chicken or ducks.

Consider crickets. It was a fad years ago and I thought it died out, but two local feed stores in Petchabun are selling cricket feed bulk. I haven’t done it, but it would be something to look at.

The Santol makes a good border for a field or road. Consider drip tape.

Put Papaya around your young fruit trees to shade them some while they are young. Some folks use bananas

Prik Keenu will grow well in the shade of bananas and papayas.

Forget crops for farang like zucchini, strawberries, bell peppers, head lettuce ect…. At least in the beginning .

Learn about drip tape (not the same as the hose type irrigation) and plastic mulch. It is used on melons and other crops. You will use a lot less water.

You tube and Facebook can be your friend. You are a lot more likely to find people doing exactly the same crop(s) as you and over time will help you advertise.

Going organic can be the right thing to do, but most of your local buyers will not pay a premium. Initially it is important to compete on a fair footing.

We have 2 rose apple trees and the wife planted a bunch of chillis around one and it had considerably few pests. I hear that chrysanthemums do the same.

A light over your pond may help a few pest to become fish food and may discourage visitors.

Keeping records will be a valuable exercise over time. Note weekly market prices for crops you are thinking about and when the high prices tend to occur….New Years, Songkran, Chinese New Years, when schools are open or closed. Obviously high prices can mean it is the wrong time a year or it could mean too much water is needed. Once you are running keep detailed costs and income records. When possible track a particular crop just to see what is happening.

I have forgotten at least this much and will let you know if anything comes to me.

Just to be clear, I am not recommending you do all or any particular activities, you will have to set your goals andlimits. I think you are someone who likes to learn and this will be a fun process. Something that works in one place may not work for you and vice versa. You do not need to explain yourself to naysayers. It is easy to say something can’t happen and impossible to prove it. Search for people that have similar experience that are willing to share and have fun.

Chok Dee

Pardon me but nowhere in this post does it say I Made a Killing Farming in thailand.

Never take advice from a fat man on how to lose weight.

Nowhere in this thread does it say anything about making a killing farming. I have never claimed to make a killing in faming, but here is what I will claim:

I have farmed longer than you in Thailand.

I have more land than you.

I have lost more money farming different crops and livestock than you (meaning I know a lot more than you about what doesn't work and why)

I have made more money than you farming.

Never listen to a man who doesn't farm about farming

How is op going to open a 7-11 wo making a killing in farming?

Mr Kie · June 6, 2016

Here is one of our water sources or around 20% of our land ...the first two pics was in October last year and the last two was March 2016. we have planted some of palm trees.

Mr Kie · June 6, 2016

I also growing some plot plants for decoration

Mr Kie · June 6, 2016

last month we planted some of the banana tree and also growing some of corns on the same line

first 2 pics was in April and the last one was in May this year

Mr Kie · June 6, 2016

I'm opened and listening to every idea or comments about farming....and it would be very helpful for us if you can give more explanation on why things happened like that...how you done or why you think it is.... thanks so much.

falang khinok · June 6, 2016

I've been a farmer nearly all my life so here is a little advice. One day you pray for rain, the next day you pray for it to stop, on another day you pray for sunshine and finally you pray it don't get too hot. There is a lot of risk in farming for a living vs being a hobby farmer. Same with any investment, only send what you can afford to lose. Best of luck.

Right!...I totally agree, farming is risky and every businesses is risky too.... that's why we have to manage the risk and find the new way to make it better....

Grow ganjaa mate...easy to sell good profite and healthy too...

WishWashMan · June 6, 2016

Op got to take some kind of farming lessons and forget about the 7-11.

RedQualia · June 6, 2016

It is possible to feed one's family and to make a wee bit of money at farming.

Here's a video to the Dervaes' family "farm" in Pasadena, somewhere near Los Angeles, California. Actually, they started with a standard "city home." The house is situated on 4,300 square feet of land, of which close to 4,000 square feet might be used for agriculture. That's about 1/4 rai. They report feeding their family as well as maybe getting about $20,000US per year. They generate most electricity with solar panels, and recycle cooking oil for diesel fuel.

If you search for "dervaes farm," you'll find other youtube videos about their efforts. They also have a website devoted to their efforts, at http://urbanhomestead.org/

You can also search for "urban farms" and find other videos about farming within cities with little land. Here's a video of someone in the states who says he's getting $75,000US from about 1 1/2 rai.

I doubt you can grow many of the foods they are growing, as Thailand is Thailand and the USA is the USA. But you may be able to grow some, and you may get some additional ideas for what you're doing.

Another website that may be of use is http://www.motherearthnews.com/. This is another website primarily devoted to North Americans, and the climate and vegetables, etc., that work there. But many interesting articles, nonetheless. "How to dry cure meat," for example, is useful information anywhere, as should be "Seven ways to use grass clippings," and "82 sustainable gardening tips." The website is derived from a magazine, and so, like a magazine, new stories are added on a regular basis.

If nothing else, you may get some inspiration from these videos and websites. Most importantly, don't get discouraged and don't listen to the trolls and naysayers, who have nothing better to do than to try to get attention by insulting the efforts of others. I am sure you can be successful, given the right effort. I am sure you can be successful, if you really want to be.

Choke dee...

loong · June 7, 2016

Hello Mr Kie,

I'm impressed.

You are obviously a doer, not a dreamer. Not afraid to try something different.

You have made the effort to get a good education in agriculture and I must say that your written English is excellent. I would not be surprised if some posters here do not realise that you are Thai.

I wish you all the best for your project.

Please don't let the negative poster here dicourage you. I look forward to reading more of your posts as you progress with your plans.

Jotham79 · June 7, 2016

Here is one of our water sources or around 20% of our land ...the first two pics was in October last year and the last two was March 2016. we have planted some of palm trees.

Here are some thoughts about your ponds:

There is no such thing as a perfect pond. By this I mean that a pond designed for fish farming will not be the best to hold irrigation water. In your case I would aim for irrigation and take fish as you can.

I would deepen both ponds (4 meters) especially the small one. Possibly dig a small area 1.5 meters deeper to facilitate seining. I would pump the large pond dry and keep water in the front one.
Replace any trees that don’t yield some fruit or food. I really like Manila Tamarind. Make sure your trees are set back at least 1.5 meters with 2 meters being better. It is difficult to work a seine with trees too close and trees too close can fall in.
As soon as you get a little water in the large pond in the rainy season (hopefully in July), I would stock with 2000 to 3000 pla tapian. Last year I got them at a government hatchery for 200 baht per thousand. These fish would need no care and would be of a sellable size in 4 months. You could toss in leafy veggies (outside of cabbages….) they love Manilla Tamarind and the bugs that fall off the branches. I would not be afraid to add an extra 1000 fry to feed the pla chon that are most likely in there. I would keep box traps or net traps in there for the pla chon and pla duk. Small pond would work for pla duk, pla nin, and frogs. Ducks or geese would be happy in either one.

Here are some photos of what I am talking about.

These are the fish nets

a cricket trap to feed you, or the fish, or the chickens, or the ducks.... You need a light at the top and water at the bottom. Would work on Meng Mow too.

Manila Tamarind fruiting and on pond bank.

Here are the Putsa and quail I mentioned earlier

Here are the frogs

Jotham79 · June 7, 2016

Duplicate post

Mr Kie · June 7, 2016

Here is one of our water sources or around 20% of our land ...the first two pics was in October last year and the last two was March 2016. we have planted some of palm trees.

Here are some thoughts about your ponds:

There is no such thing as a perfect pond. By this I mean that a pond designed for fish farming will not be the best to hold irrigation water. In your case I would aim for irrigation and take fish as you can.

I would deepen both ponds (4 meters) especially the small one. Possibly dig a small area 1.5 meters deeper to facilitate seining. I would pump the large pond dry and keep water in the front one.

Replace any trees that don’t yield some fruit or food. I really like Manila Tamarind. Make sure your trees are set back at least 1.5 meters with 2 meters being better. It is difficult to work a seine with trees too close and trees too close can fall in.

As soon as you get a little water in the large pond in the rainy season (hopefully in July), I would stock with 2000 to 3000 pla tapian. Last year I got them at a government hatchery for 200 baht per thousand. These fish would need no care and would be of a sellable size in 4 months. You could toss in leafy veggies (outside of cabbages….) they love Manilla Tamarind and the bugs that fall off the branches. I would not be afraid to add an extra 1000 fry to feed the pla chon that are most likely in there. I would keep box traps or net traps in there for the pla chon and pla duk. Small pond would work for pla duk, pla nin, and frogs. Ducks or geese would be happy in either one.

Thanks for nice looking pics.

our pond is aimed for both irrigation and for raising fish. that larger pond is already 11 years old, yes we might need to get it deeper. right now we are using water from the smaller one and we got both filled with water from a liver near by. after it get filled, it will last for about 4 weeks (if we continue using it for our crops) and then will get it filled again.

At early time we raised Tilapia but later on once Pra Chon come, all Tillapia are gone or only the bigger size that survived. the problem is how can we get rid of Pra Chon which i don't like to have it in our farm here.

I will have Pra Duk raised in a concrete tank too and do something like aquaponics system,,,will be working on it...step by step.

cricket might be good but not sure how to feed them, saw some commercial feed for cricket. the most important thing for me to grow is earthworm....this will help to do composting, digest all the leftover veggies, grass, organic material faster and we will get worm casting which is very good for growing crops

i already bought the light for attracting insect or black light....one night we got like 0.5-1 kg of insects. we also will make our own chicken feed and the protein source will be from soybean and insects and energy will be from corn and cassava.

I read an article...insect will be allowed to use by EU law and that will be another new source of protein for human and livestock in the future...

Manila Tamarind.... i didn't think about it coz never eat the fruit before...

Putsa and quail.....would be nice to have some these.

I used to eat frogs when i was young but now not anymore, so it better not to do....anyway might be interesting for someone else.

here are some fruit trees will be planted on 18-19 June 2016. two of these are grape (green one and red one)

djayz · June 8, 2016

I've really enjoyed this thread thus far.

I'm afraid I can't add any advice that hasn't already been given here by much more experienced and wiser people, but one thing I'd like to say is:

Generally, people who farm do so out of love for the land; they enjoy planting and harvesting crops, taking care of lifestock, etc. It's a way of life, a passion and devotion unseen in many other professions.

"Making a living" is usually more important than "making a killing".

I'm looking forward to reading the next posts and pieces of advice as well as seeing more of the fabulous photos.

Jotham79 · June 9, 2016

PM me your email address and I can send you an excel spreadsheet on feed formulation. Also we can talk more about Manilla Tamarind, Putsa, and Quail. On the quail I am getting some hatching eggs for 2 strains of quail. All of the parents are over 400 grams (average Thai quail 170 grams). Heat is a problems and if I get a hatch, I doubt they break 370.

Mr Kie · June 10, 2016

PM me your email address and I can send you an excel spreadsheet on feed formulation. Also we can talk more about Manilla Tamarind, Putsa, and Quail. On the quail I am getting some hatching eggs for 2 strains of quail. All of the parents are over 400 grams (average Thai quail 170 grams). Heat is a problems and if I get a hatch, I doubt they break 370.

Hi Jotham..here is my email. [email protected]. Next week will update my young layer and i also will build a new chicken house coz they are getting bigger and bigger right now. planing to do own feed as well. where do you sell you quail egg?

Mr Kie · June 10, 2016

I've really enjoyed this thread thus far.

I'm afraid I can't add any advice that hasn't already been given here by much more experienced and wiser people, but one thing I'd like to say is:

Generally, people who farm do so out of love for the land; they enjoy planting and harvesting crops, taking care of lifestock, etc. It's a way of life, a passion and devotion unseen in many other professions.

"Making a living" is usually more important than "making a killing".

I'm looking forward to reading the next posts and pieces of advice as well as seeing more of the fabulous photos.

Thank you.

I know there are many people have such a bad experience with farming....some has failed and some successful

and also do agree most of Thai farmer are poor and that because most of them are uneducated and they only do the same thing and knowing nothing about marketing.

I will keep updating my farm....and will prove that can do it... ^__^

Mr Kie · June 11, 2016

here are the seeds that i growing now....what surprised me is that watermelon seed cost me 25 Baht per 20 seeds, it getting more and more expensive over the period of time.

IsaanAussie · June 13, 2016

Great thread guys. You can see the integration of the elements on the farms. Wastes used for inputs, eg. fallen fruit. Controlling input costs is vital IMHO.