Real Price Of Condos In Bkk

[think_too_mut]

The news were on this site - 4000 apartments are to be built to accomodate for Suvarnabhumi staff.

40sqm, probably 1 room, for 1 mil baht. 25K baht sqm.

Keen owners of the old stock in the area were selling their old units for whatever they thought they could get - even up to premium city prices. Did they sell anything? I doubt.

My take is, nothing in BKK (unless it is the Emporium suites or similar) should cost much more than 25-30K baht sqm.

[teej]

My take is, nothing in BKK (unless it is the Emporium suites or similar) should cost much more than 25-30K baht sqm.

But it does. And they sell. At prices 4x more than what you're quoting. Can't compare a penthouse on Thonglor or Langsuan to a POS condo for flight attendants out in BFE. Actually you can't even compare the Emporium Suites to many condo projects that make Empo Suites look like english-teacher housing. The statement itself "nothing in bkk should cost more than 23-30k bsm is ridiculous.

[think_too_mut]

My take is, nothing in BKK (unless it is the Emporium suites or similar) should cost much more than 25-30K baht sqm.

But it does. And they sell. At prices 4x more than what you're quoting. Can't compare a penthouse on Thonglor or Langsuan to a POS condo for flight attendants out in BFE. Actually you can't even compare the Emporium Suites to many condo projects that make Empo Suites look like english-teacher housing. The statement itself "nothing in bkk should cost more than 23-30k bsm is ridiculous.

Yeah? How ridiculous? They should cost 30% of what whoever is asking, they are probably worth 10% if anything.

Probably nothing at all. Just good to be abandoned, if that cost nothing.

[austallia_1980]

My take is, nothing in BKK (unless it is the Emporium suites or similar) should cost much more than 25-30K baht sqm.

But it does. And they sell. At prices 4x more than what you're quoting. Can't compare a penthouse on Thonglor or Langsuan to a POS condo for flight attendants out in BFE. Actually you can't even compare the Emporium Suites to many condo projects that make Empo Suites look like english-teacher housing. The statement itself "nothing in bkk should cost more than 23-30k bsm is ridiculous.

Yeah? How ridiculous? They should cost 30% of what whoever is asking, they are probably worth 10% if anything.

Probably nothing at all. Just good to be abandoned, if that cost nothing.

can you please explain the difference between "real price" and market price. how do you determine real price?

[backflip]

"Yeah? How ridiculous? They should cost 30% of what whoever is asking, they are probably worth 10% if anything. Probably nothing at all. Just good to be abandoned, if that cost nothing."

I understand English, but not a word of this.

[austallia_1980]

"Yeah? How ridiculous? They should cost 30% of what whoever is asking, they are probably worth 10% if anything. Probably nothing at all. Just good to be abandoned, if that cost nothing."

I understand English, but not a word of this.

He is saying that Condo's should be selling for only 10% of the price they are selling. So if someone is selling a condominium for 20 million baht, the real price should 2 million baht.

And if they are selling a condominium for 2 million baht, the real price should be 200K Baht, the price of a cheap Rolex.

[thaigene2]

Speculators that bought over the last 2 years are selling some completed places in central bangkok at around 50,000 B sq M for good central locations with what I'd call superior Grade B finishings. These places would have been going for 65,000 B sq M a year ago. So the 'middle market' is dropping for sure. Have a look on some of the Websites for condos in some of recently completed places being sold for little more - if more at all - then the pre-build prices.

I don't know about the very top end - the 90 - 100 K places. To me the real test for them will come when the buildings are nearly finished and ready for occupancy. This is the time when the buyers (off-plan) have to stump up the remainder of the purchase price (usually 80-90% of the total). This is when we'll see just how many 'buyers' were real 'buyers' or just 'flippers'..in other words, those who never had intention to make that big final payment - but were hoping to sell the contract to someone else for a profit. What happens then? How many people buying in these big expensive joints ever knew how many of their imagined neighbours would ever actually move in?? Even the agents may not have ever really known who was going to be a resident and who was a speculator. At this stage does the building go into reposession by the bank? And sit empty - nearly fully completed - and with a dozen well-heeled farangs jumping up and down in anger outside the locked gates? guess we'll see soon enough as many of these places are now approaching that stage..

For what it's worth - I'd say Grade A is really worth around 40,000 B sq M and a good Grade B around 30,000. No more. But that's my view..and of course you will have your own. At the end of the day I don;t care..I tried to buy, got shot down by the bank at the last minute (post-coup) and reckon it's a blessing in disguise. I'm out of the market now for at least a year - maybe longer.

[The Skipper]

I attended several property/condo, auctions in the late 90s.

50,000/ meter was the going rate for nice places near Rachadamri BTS.

Building costs have risen since then.

I don't think we will ever see prices lower than that in this area.

50,000bt per meter would be considered a very low offer.

[thedude]

Speculators that bought over the last 2 years are selling some completed places in central bangkok at around 50,000 B sq M for good central locations with what I'd call superior Grade B finishings. These places would have been going for 65,000 B sq M a year ago. So the 'middle market' is dropping for sure. Have a look on some of the Websites for condos in some of recently completed places being sold for little more - if more at all - then the pre-build prices.

I don't know about the very top end - the 90 - 100 K places. To me the real test for them will come when the buildings are nearly finished and ready for occupancy. This is the time when the buyers (off-plan) have to stump up the remainder of the purchase price (usually 80-90% of the total). This is when we'll see just how many 'buyers' were real 'buyers' or just 'flippers'..in other words, those who never had intention to make that big final payment - but were hoping to sell the contract to someone else for a profit. What happens then? How many people buying in these big expensive joints ever knew how many of their imagined neighbours would ever actually move in?? Even the agents may not have ever really known who was going to be a resident and who was a speculator. At this stage does the building go into reposession by the bank? And sit empty - nearly fully completed - and with a dozen well-heeled farangs jumping up and down in anger outside the locked gates? guess we'll see soon enough as many of these places are now approaching that stage..

For what it's worth - I'd say Grade A is really worth around 40,000 B sq M and a good Grade B around 30,000. No more. But that's my view..and of course you will have your own. At the end of the day I don;t care..I tried to buy, got shot down by the bank at the last minute (post-coup) and reckon it's a blessing in disguise. I'm out of the market now for at least a year - maybe longer.

some valid observations thaigene2. however the key thing to watch is the occupancy level. right now its about 83% overall, which is not too bad. in the end, occupancy demand dictates the industry fundamentals because occupancy based cashflow (rental or mortgage payments) support underlying asset values. occupancy demand (from both renters and buyers) rely on a number of factors, for example, the net annual growth in expat visas and work permits, urban growth patterns and alternative infrastructure, growth in real incomes, regional growth and comparable cap values in regional cities, growth in related industries such as leisure and tourism that generate new demand segments, and etc. the more diverse the sources of occupancy demand, the more stable occupancy is. while occupancy demand is less diverse here than say in hong kong or singapore, i'd say its def better than places like seoul, jakarta, manila, and possibly even kuala lumpur.

your estimation of prices is untenable. land and construction cost alone is easily Bt 35,000 psm saleable and above for well-located grade B in Bangkok. there are numerous other costs that add to a developer's bottom line, for example design, engineering and supervision, marketing and advertising costs, transaction costs (fees, duties and specific business tax) on title transfer, sales commission, finance costs (interest), legal and administrative costs, corporate tax, and of course the developer's margin. gone are the days when you can build a concrete structure with basic finishings for 10,000 baht psm and expect the market to accept it. material costs and specifications have gone up in line with increasing buyer sophistication. you are doing extremely well if you can deliver a grade B product for less than 50,000 psm in Bangkok city.

[merlion]

Speculators that bought over the last 2 years are selling some completed places in central bangkok at around 50,000 B sq M for good central locations with what I'd call superior Grade B finishings. These places would have been going for 65,000 B sq M a year ago. So the 'middle market' is dropping for sure. Have a look on some of the Websites for condos in some of recently completed places being sold for little more - if more at all - then the pre-build prices.

I don't know about the very top end - the 90 - 100 K places. To me the real test for them will come when the buildings are nearly finished and ready for occupancy. This is the time when the buyers (off-plan) have to stump up the remainder of the purchase price (usually 80-90% of the total). This is when we'll see just how many 'buyers' were real 'buyers' or just 'flippers'..in other words, those who never had intention to make that big final payment - but were hoping to sell the contract to someone else for a profit. What happens then? How many people buying in these big expensive joints ever knew how many of their imagined neighbours would ever actually move in?? Even the agents may not have ever really known who was going to be a resident and who was a speculator. At this stage does the building go into reposession by the bank? And sit empty - nearly fully completed - and with a dozen well-heeled farangs jumping up and down in anger outside the locked gates? guess we'll see soon enough as many of these places are now approaching that stage..

For what it's worth - I'd say Grade A is really worth around 40,000 B sq M and a good Grade B around 30,000. No more. But that's my view..and of course you will have your own. At the end of the day I don;t care..I tried to buy, got shot down by the bank at the last minute (post-coup) and reckon it's a blessing in disguise. I'm out of the market now for at least a year - maybe longer.

some valid observations thaigene2. however the key thing to watch is the occupancy level. right now its about 83% overall, which is not too bad. in the end, occupancy demand dictates the industry fundamentals because occupancy based cashflow (rental or mortgage payments) support underlying asset values. occupancy demand (from both renters and buyers) rely on a number of factors, for example, the net annual growth in expat visas and work permits, urban growth patterns and alternative infrastructure, growth in real incomes, regional growth and comparable cap values in regional cities, growth in related industries such as leisure and tourism that generate new demand segments, and etc. the more diverse the sources of occupancy demand, the more stable occupancy is. while occupancy demand is less diverse here than say in hong kong or singapore, i'd say its def better than places like seoul, jakarta, manila, and possibly even kuala lumpur.

your estimation of prices is untenable. land and construction cost alone is easily Bt 35,000 psm saleable and above for well-located grade B in Bangkok. there are numerous other costs that add to a developer's bottom line, for example design, engineering and supervision, marketing and advertising costs, transaction costs (fees, duties and specific business tax) on title transfer, sales commission, finance costs (interest), legal and administrative costs, corporate tax, and of course the developer's margin. gone are the days when you can build a concrete structure with basic finishings for 10,000 baht psm and expect the market to accept it. material costs and specifications have gone up in line with increasing buyer sophistication. you are doing extremely well if you can deliver a grade B product for less than 50,000 psm in Bangkok city.

Well said dude, some people just seem to be talking rubbish with their eyes closed.

[think_too_mut]

"Yeah? How ridiculous? They should cost 30% of what whoever is asking, they are probably worth 10% if anything. Probably nothing at all. Just good to be abandoned, if that cost nothing."

I understand English, but not a word of this.

He is saying that Condo's should be selling for only 10% of the price they are selling. So if someone is selling a condominium for 20 million baht, the real price should 2 million baht.

And if they are selling a condominium for 2 million baht, the real price should be 200K Baht, the price of a cheap Rolex.

Yes. Get into a situation when you have to leave Thailand for any reason quickly, own for example a room at View Thalay in Pattaya (asking 2mil for it) and need money within a week. Consider yourself lucky if you got 100K baht for it.

A cheap Rolex (worth twice as much) you can take and cash elsewhere.

Be in that situation in NY or Sydney and you know that lawyers and realtors will still do whatever they can - and the property is worth it. You might still have to run away but you would not abandon your property.

It's not hypothetic - who knows how many "banned" stamps are afixed into people's passports every day.

A situation as trivial as fighting a bargirl and/or her husband may make you feel great to be bare alive, forget the condo.

Edited November 13, 2006 by think_too_mut

[backflip]

"some people just seem to be talking rubbish with their eyes closed."

For example:

"It's not hypothetic - who knows how many 'banned' stamps are afixed into people's passports every day. A situation as trivial as fighting a bargirl and/or her husband may make you feel great to be bare alive, forget the condo"

[think_too_mut]

"some people just seem to be talking rubbish with their eyes closed."

For example:

"It's not hypothetic - who knows how many 'banned' stamps are afixed into people's passports every day. A situation as trivial as fighting a bargirl and/or her husband may make you feel great to be bare alive, forget the condo"

Nice to hear from someone who came to Thailand to take pictures of temples and ride elephants.

For them, I am really talking nonsenses.

[teej]

Think_too_mut,

You are using a rare example of someone fire-selling their crappy condo in Patters to make a generalization about the entire real estate market in Bangkok????! Your posts in this thread have been utterly riduculous and illogical... as the_dude pointed out, land and construction costs alone amount to more than you "value" property here in Bangkok... "value" property at whatever level you want, but the market will dictate real prices.

You are clearly not versed in real estate valuation -- your posts dictate this.

[austallia_1980]

toomut,

what is your history/experience in real estate?

[Crash999]

toomut,

if you ever find any places for sale at the prices you mentioned, PM me!

crash

[thaihome]

"Yeah? How ridiculous? They should cost 30% of what whoever is asking, they are probably worth 10% if anything. Probably nothing at all. Just good to be abandoned, if that cost nothing."

I understand English, but not a word of this.

He is saying that Condo's should be selling for only 10% of the price they are selling. So if someone is selling a condominium for 20 million baht, the real price should 2 million baht.

And if they are selling a condominium for 2 million baht, the real price should be 200K Baht, the price of a cheap Rolex.

Yes. Get into a situation when you have to leave Thailand for any reason quickly, own for example a room at View Thalay in Pattaya (asking 2mil for it) and need money within a week. Consider yourself lucky if you got 100K baht for it.

A cheap Rolex (worth twice as much) you can take and cash elsewhere.

Be in that situation in NY or Sydney and you know that lawyers and realtors will still do whatever they can - and the property is worth it. You might still have to run away but you would not abandon your property.

It's not hypothetic - who knows how many "banned" stamps are afixed into people's passports every day.

A situation as trivial as fighting a bargirl and/or her husband may make you feel great to be bare alive, forget the condo.

TM,

It seems there is some bitterness that is getting in the way of your normally rational mind. Thailand real estate is not much different then anywhere as far as pricing and market, with the caveat that is is a third world country and all the legal ramifications that go with that.

There are sensible condos at sensible prices available; you just can't be influenced by what is offered in the English only advertising.

TH

[think_too_mut]

toomut,

if you ever find any places for sale at the prices you mentioned, PM me!

crash

"The news were on this site - 4000 apartments are to be built to accomodate for Suvarnabhumi staff."

My comment to was: 40sqm, probably 1 room, for 1 mil baht. 25K baht sqm.

Since the cost of building is similar regardless of location, with reasonable land price that should be it, for the same level of quality.

One of View Thalays in Pattaya, built 6 yrs ago was selling 17K baht sqm.

In March this year, went to inspect a 45sqm place in a bulding with a pool, Bang Na central, 1.2 mil.

It was advertised on this site.

Did not like the place but in the same building, the signpost was in front of it, 90sqm was asking 1.2 mil too. That is 13,000B sqm, before any negotiation. Of course, 10yrs+ buildings but still trying to cash on (then) approaching Suvarnabhumi opening. I wonder what they were selling 3 years ago, if they could sell at all.

So, what's so unbelivable with 25K sqm in Bang Na area?

[think_too_mut]

TM,

It seems there is some bitterness that is getting in the way of your normally rational mind. Thailand real estate is not much different then anywhere as far as pricing and market, with the caveat that is is a third world country and all the legal ramifications that go with that.

There are sensible condos at sensible prices available; you just can't be influenced by what is offered in the English only advertising.

TH

If I were to live in it, I would only look how convenient and apt to my needs the condo is.

I would not care of any rules, economical or whatever and will have no expectations of profit one day.

What I had and still have (2 units in the same block in Sydney, one sold) is telling me the rules can be so badly bent, beyond recognition.

One unit (acquired for 278K$ in 1997. was sold for $484K in 2002.)

The agent was selling as "$300K for the view, only $200K extra gives you a 2 bedroom with 2 carspaces". Try that in BKK with any unit at any location after any time.

I still have another one that has zero mortgage (the first one fixed it).

Posted that pic before, here it is again.

[I Go With You]

toomut,

what is your history/experience in real estate?

Pretty obviously none in central BKK

[thaihome]

...What I had and still have (2 units in the same block in Sydney, one sold) is telling me the rules can be so badly bent, beyond recognition.

....

Maybe someone here can explain a really bent place, like San Francisco Bay area real estate...

TH

[ThaiBob]

...What I had and still have (2 units in the same block in Sydney, one sold) is telling me the rules can be so badly bent, beyond recognition.

....

Maybe someone here can explain a really bent place, like San Francisco Bay area real estate...

TH

I live in the area. Not too much to explain.

(shortage of housing)+(high construction and land costs)+(desirable place to live)+(strong economy)+(low mortgage interest rates) = record high housing prices

We are anticipating a correction in the local housing market however figures just released today show slower sales but prices remaining flat (unlike other areas in the country)

[backflip]

Even with San Francisco, you have to be very careful what is posted! One TVer claimed he was based in SF for decades, and then claimed that the real estate prices in SF were high because the city was land-locked...completely ignoring the fact that San Francisco is on the Pacific ocean.

[ThaiBob]

"...and then claimed that the real estate prices in SF were high because the city was land-locked...completely ignoring the fact that San Francisco is on the Pacific ocean." Yes, SF is on a peninsula and covers about 49 sq miles. There is no room to expand (except to go up) which contributes to high prices. Also SF is a city of renters and not the best place to be if you are landlord (rent control, restrictions on apartment-condo conversions). But the high prices are region wide. The San Francisco Bay Area comprises 9 counties. I hope to pocket a nice profit from the sale of my home and move to LOS in about 3 years.

[thaihome]

"...and then claimed that the real estate prices in SF were high because the city was land-locked...completely ignoring the fact that San Francisco is on the Pacific ocean." Yes, SF is on a peninsula and covers about 49 sq miles. There is no room to expand (except to go up) which contributes to high prices. Also SF is a city of renters and not the best place to be if you are landlord (rent control, restrictions on apartment-condo conversions). But the high prices are region wide. The San Francisco Bay Area comprises 9 counties. I hope to pocket a nice profit from the sale of my home and move to LOS in about 3 years.

I bet I used to pay you a way overpriced rent in East Dublin about 10 years ago....

My company is HQ in Bay Area, people who were assigned there 20 years ago have houses worth absolutely obscene amounts. Particularly Walnut Creek and surrounding area....

TH

[backflip]

I'm familiar with the SF bay area, and sold my home in Fremont recently. There aren't many places that you can turn $16K in home equity to $975K in home equity in 20 years.

[ThaiBob]

I'm familiar with the SF bay area, and sold my home in Fremont recently. There aren't many places that you can turn $16K in home equity to $975K in home equity in 20 years.

Well I haven't done that well....I envy you.

[steveromagnino]

I'm familiar with the SF bay area, and sold my home in Fremont recently. There aren't many places that you can turn $16K in home equity to $975K in home equity in 20 years.

Well I haven't done that well....I envy you.

Mammoth Lakes (where i used to live) was a bit like that too.

I know of several people buying 2 bedroom apartments just 5-6 years ago around $300k USD; now one has flicked it for $1m.

Crazy, stupid insane people from er.... Bay Area and LA - more money than sense! Ah well, it will all slow down soon enough i suppose.

[SiriusBlack1]

Bear in mind that a developer's land costs and the price the market will bear are two different things. That is, it may well be that a developer needs to sell her condos for X million baht to break even. But that does not mean she will get her wish. If the bank comes calling for its loan, she may well have to sell at a loss.

I see the next couple of years, while Thailand's credibility as an investment destination is at a nadir, as a good buying opportunity -- one that is just beginning. I'm keeping my cash off the table for the next year or so.

[The Skipper]

I see a building site on Suk 11 just sold for 400,000,000bt.

WOW.