Pressure From Long Time Gf

[John_Rambo]

Tell her the truth and give her the choice of sticking with you as it is .... or breaking it off.

It is that simple.

[tropo]

Tell her the truth and give her the choice of sticking with you as it is .... or breaking it off.

It is that simple.

Yes, it's that simple!

The OP is not interested in continuing this relationship, that's clear, but hasn't got the balls to break it off.

He met "her when she was 18 and she moved in pretty much right away".

What?

He met her in some bar, paid her barfine and they started living together....it's amazing that 40+ guys can be this silly. You'd think that at that age, guys would know better.

Can't say you love her? Never visited her province in 5+ years?

Just tell her the truth: You don't love her, you don't want to marry her and you've been too gutless to tell her the truth, so your barfine has been going on 5 years too long.

A few posters here had it nailed: You should be ashamed of yourself for wasting the best 5 years of this girls life.

Do the right thing, grow some balls and break it off today!

Edited November 15, 2006 by tropo

[drummer]

DD: preface by noting I sense that you are dictating things in your terms - fairly according to farangland. you seem to be a nice enough and smart enough guy. However, things are different in Thailand, and you are falling into some traps that you may never be able to dig yourself out of.

I suspect, indeed believe, the whole idea that the guy should 'do the right thing' is based on the presumption that the woman is in some sense incapable of taking charge of her own life.

Very interseting idea here.... Thai culture - Issan especially - the women handle all the money and the men are irresponsible and get allowances from the matriarch. Women get security from relationships this way. Men are

Given: Women deeply need security in a relationship, more than anything else.

From my understanding, Western women get security from a loving and equal relationship, from owning fully half of the assets, and often working herself.

In Thailand, the Western ideal of the equal and loving relationship doesn't hold. Men are fllirts and cheats, have minor wives, no exceptions - full stop. Its a cultural given. No way around it. Women dislike it, but there is no way to avoid human nature. Women then get their security by controlling the money. In Thailand it is customary fo all the immediate family to hand the money to the atriarch, and for her to hand the money out. Men get allowances, and are generally seen as financially irresponsible (sound familiar?)

I don't speak enough Thai to know, but I've heard that the wod for 'husband' includes the connotation of "the guy who provides the money". It is completely different and in many ways irroconcilable with the Western view of marriage and relationships. The word for wife includes the connotation "the woman who takes care of you."

Thats the official exchange- thats the way the world works. Without understanding this and its effects (or a wife who understand and acccepts farang culture) you are doomed.

Another thing to consider is that this is generally MORE true in Issan then elsewhere in Thailand. Issan girls provide the bulk of the prostitutes nationwide. (issan, north, BKK, south, in that order, adjusted for population) This is, as I understand it currently - not just because Issan is poorer than the other areas and lower status than the other areas, but also that culturally these aspects are stronger. The South, for example, is resource rich and has a lot of exposure to other cultures (being in a major trade route position)

The fact that your girl is 18, and wanted to get married right away (and from Issan) suggests this:

She is in it for the money.

Sure, other things matter, like love and whatnot. This does not make her a prostitute automatically ... the approach it is pretty much a given, with her resources and culture. I would watch your own bank account, though - just out of respect for those that have gone before you. There are more than a few horror stories.

Another thing - especialy in Issan, getting taken to farangland is one-upsmanship game that women play with each other. Its status more than anything. just my own observation. (Actually- I'm mostly parroting my wife's, although I did notice body language on at least 2 occaisions when the subject came up)

If you want to keep playing things in your terms, and not assimilate (that is a decision I made) then you need to get her educated. Sell her on the idea that it will provide security for her. This might involve sending her to Farangland to go to University, which would provide her with the means to take care of her family by herself. No need for you at all. If you see where i'm going with this... it is a less ... shocking/culturally ignorant ... way to get to where Nam Khao was going.

Also, broadening her worldview would also bring her culturally closer to you and provide a lot more commonality ... strengthening the Western ideal of an equal relationship.... (in other words... open the cage door in a meaningful way)

Another point is naam jai - or generosity. Your providing a fixed stipend a month, + extras, makes a lot of sense for Westerners, but what would strangely put you in better esteem would be to lower the stipend, but give her the same amount anyway. if you do more than you say, tehn you are being generous. You get generous points even if the payout is exactly the same.

I am making another assumption here - that this is a long term relationship, you do care about her. For all intents and purposes, you are married already, and would be legally married at this point in many countries (a common law marriage) ... something to consider.

[cobra]

The problem with any relationship is that they rarely stay static,

You met her at 18, in the last 5 years she's been maturing, the whole dynamic of the relationship is changing and will continue to do so.

Your not to be faulted for your reluctance to marry, that is your prerogative,

and it appears you've been honest to her in any expectations she has intimated.

Her End Game is marriage, stability and support, (family), not unreasonable.

Yours is status quo, not unreasonable.

But at some point she'll have to make the decision to keep the cards drawn or fold,

Like GH said, Game Over, she'll most likely start to explore other options,

I also had a similar situation and quandary, to this day I'm not sure if I made the right decision.

Anyway, you obviously care for the girl, maybe as previous posters suggested, an occasional visit to the village so she can show you off, quell rumors, etc, can't hurt.

At least you'll be meeting her half way.

Good Luck,

[drummer]

I agree largely with cobra.... (they say that Men marry thinking everything will stay the same and women marry hoping everything will change) It is your perogative and you should remain honest to your intentions.

Again - it is a stereotype, but its an all-too-common story... The Issan girl who seduces and marries a farang only to take him for everything he is worth at the earliest opportunity. Just something to be wary of since you seem to fit the major warning signs (i.e. big age difference and Issan girl)

BTW I meant to elaborate on an earlier point.

She's 18, your 44 ... She's in it for the money - pure and simple. her having a kid already is also suspicious. It is common for girls to give their kids to their parents to take care of while they work.

This is an important point to my mind. Either (1) - you won't let the kid stay with you, in which case she is probably harboring a lot of resentment somewhere, (2) she doesn't WANT the kid, and/or thinks that her parents will do a much better job (not all that uncommon)

If its #1 than you are in SERIOUS TROUBLE. Drop her yesterday. Give her a wad of cash so she can save face if you want, but get rid of her.

Feel out the kid situation, though. The kid may be a major reason why she wants to go back home. Having the kid with you may not be so bad. You can get a maid and send less $$ back to the folks. No real change in the way you do business, except in childproofing the house... the maid takes all the responsibility. (better to pay her a lower salary and then give a daily stipend out of your good will than to pay a high salary and no 'good will')

Maybe some of the other posters can give a better picture, but my feeling is that if you move to the sticks with her then it will be to assimilate - something that you don't want to do by the tone of your posts, and your history of never going there before.

[a2396]

DD: preface by noting I sense that you are dictating things in your terms - fairly according to farangland. you seem to be a nice enough and smart enough guy. However, things are different in Thailand, and you are falling into some traps that you may never be able to dig yourself out of.

I suspect, indeed believe, the whole idea that the guy should 'do the right thing' is based on the presumption that the woman is in some sense incapable of taking charge of her own life.

Very interseting idea here.... Thai culture - Issan especially - the women handle all the money and the men are irresponsible and get allowances from the matriarch. Women get security from relationships this way. Men are

Given: Women deeply need security in a relationship, more than anything else.

From my understanding, Western women get security from a loving and equal relationship, from owning fully half of the assets, and often working herself.

In Thailand, the Western ideal of the equal and loving relationship doesn't hold. Men are fllirts and cheats, have minor wives, no exceptions - full stop. Its a cultural given. No way around it. Women dislike it, but there is no way to avoid human nature. Women then get their security by controlling the money. In Thailand it is customary fo all the immediate family to hand the money to the atriarch, and for her to hand the money out. Men get allowances, and are generally seen as financially irresponsible (sound familiar?)

I don't speak enough Thai to know, but I've heard that the wod for 'husband' includes the connotation of "the guy who provides the money". It is completely different and in many ways irroconcilable with the Western view of marriage and relationships. The word for wife includes the connotation "the woman who takes care of you."

Thats the official exchange- thats the way the world works. Without understanding this and its effects (or a wife who understand and acccepts farang culture) you are doomed.

Another thing to consider is that this is generally MORE true in Issan then elsewhere in Thailand. Issan girls provide the bulk of the prostitutes nationwide. (issan, north, BKK, south, in that order, adjusted for population) This is, as I understand it currently - not just because Issan is poorer than the other areas and lower status than the other areas, but also that culturally these aspects are stronger. The South, for example, is resource rich and has a lot of exposure to other cultures (being in a major trade route position)

The fact that your girl is 18, and wanted to get married right away (and from Issan) suggests this:

She is in it for the money.

Sure, other things matter, like love and whatnot. This does not make her a prostitute automatically ... the approach it is pretty much a given, with her resources and culture. I would watch your own bank account, though - just out of respect for those that have gone before you. There are more than a few horror stories.

Another thing - especialy in Issan, getting taken to farangland is one-upsmanship game that women play with each other. Its status more than anything. just my own observation. (Actually- I'm mostly parroting my wife's, although I did notice body language on at least 2 occaisions when the subject came up)

If you want to keep playing things in your terms, and not assimilate (that is a decision I made) then you need to get her educated. Sell her on the idea that it will provide security for her. This might involve sending her to Farangland to go to University, which would provide her with the means to take care of her family by herself. No need for you at all. If you see where i'm going with this... it is a less ... shocking/culturally ignorant ... way to get to where Nam Khao was going.

Also, broadening her worldview would also bring her culturally closer to you and provide a lot more commonality ... strengthening the Western ideal of an equal relationship.... (in other words... open the cage door in a meaningful way)

Another point is naam jai - or generosity. Your providing a fixed stipend a month, + extras, makes a lot of sense for Westerners, but what would strangely put you in better esteem would be to lower the stipend, but give her the same amount anyway. if you do more than you say, tehn you are being generous. You get generous points even if the payout is exactly the same.

I am making another assumption here - that this is a long term relationship, you do care about her. For all intents and purposes, you are married already, and would be legally married at this point in many countries (a common law marriage) ... something to consider.

Some very good points in your post. From my 2 years in Issan, I generally have seen the same kind of mentality with the locals. I think the OP should offer some options for independance & security, such as offering to finance some higher education. Presuming that she has some interest in this. Unfortunately, many of the ladies I have encountered are just looking to live off a Farang and have no ambition to do anything constructive with their lives. I would reccomend that she stay in Thailand for this (college), because taking her overseas will open up a whole new "can of worms" of problems he does not have now.

I would not assume that because she "hooked up" with him at 18 that her motivation was not money. 15,000 bht per month could be quite persuasive to many poorer ladies. For sure I would not give her any direct access or control over his finances, even if he were married to her.

As for visiting her village, I don't know why she would want to show him off to much up there, because she is not married to him and the local tongues will start wagging if she is not.

[phibunmike]

Sheryl, thanks for your posts !

As I was reading this thread, I could not understand why people were judging marriage from only the western view-point.

Thanks for straightening this thread...

[alexth]

He met her in some bar, paid her barfine and they started living together....it's amazing that 40+ guys can be this silly. You'd think that at that age, guys would know better.

You think so? There are thousands of these silly guys out there.

A few posters here had it nailed: You should be ashamed of yourself for wasting the best 5 years of this girls life.

She gets 15k/month, she was a bargirl, not a genius scientist being stopped from his way to find the source of eternal peace.

Edited November 16, 2006 by alexth

[excaliber]

For what it’s worth this is my take on the situation as a woman and one who has lived in Thailand more than 20 years and has a lot of close Thai women friends:

Fact is, the only kind of woman likely to be satisfied indefinitely with the arrangement you seem to want would be a hardened gold-digger/prostitute type, and living with someone like that would bring a host of other problems and unpleasantness.

In short I think the time has come where you have to make a move one way or the other. Either bring yourself to commit to her – surely 5 years of living together was enough to find out is she is someone you care enough about – or break it off while she still has some chance of finding someone else.

I showed your post/reply to my girlfriend and she wanted to respond to you concerning the part in 'red'. We've been together eleven years this month. We're not married and has only brought marriage up a couple times in the past but not for a long time. I was very clear when we first met on several issues. 1. I don't want to get married, 2. I will help the family from time to time but in no way will I support them financially, 3. I didn't bring your daughter into the world so I don't feel obligated to support her. I do, however, pay for her schooling, books, gas for her new motorbike, clothes, etc. not a big expense. As for my girlfriend: another thing I told her in the beginning was that I would help finance & support a worthwhile endeaver. Now, after several years, she's a dynamo on the computer, her English is excellent, her English typing skills are very good and she helps a lot of local girls find good farang husbands. She wanted to tell the OP to have his girlfriend send her photo and phone number and she'll find her a guy who will want to marry. She said at 24 she has a very good chance.

As far as commitment goes, in my opinion, is for the moment. There is no tomorrow and never will be. All we can do is talk about it but never experience it and while we're at it, there is no past either, gone never to return. I think the OP has a similiar philosophy in that he lives from day to day without much thought or concern for the future although his girlfriend may have different ideals. One area not discussed: is if the OP's girlfriend is the youngest daughter in the family? If so, she is traditionally responsible for her parents welfare until they pass on. My girlfriend is the youngest daughter of seven children and she assumes this responsible without question as do all the other girls I know of here in the village. In addition, as mentioned already, her parents need to save face and the OP might want to visit the folks, bring a few gifts, have a small party with food & drinks and if he really wants to stay with the girl and help her retain face with the family & neighbors then a local wedding party would be good.

Too many farang think that the woman should learn and accept 'western ways' if they want a successful partnership. Yes, if they go to live in his country but this is Thailand and you have to respect and accept the 'Thai ways' or the road will be bumpy or scattered with road pies.

I've also been here 20 years and it can take a long time to accept Thai ways for most farang, especially when the man is paying the bills, giving the girl an allowance and helping her family from time to time.

I think in any society, honesty up front is always the best policy in any relationship, at least it's worked for me and now live with a beautiful, caring woman who now makes more money than I do.

anyway....just my 2 bahts worth....

[roguegirl]

He met her in some bar, paid her barfine and they started living together....it's amazing that 40+ guys can be this silly. You'd think that at that age, guys would know better.

You think so? There are thousands of these silly guys out there.

A few posters here had it nailed: You should be ashamed of yourself for wasting the best 5 years of this girls life.

She gets 15k/month, she was a bargirl, not a genius scientist being stopped from his way to find the source of eternal peace.

YOu think he'll do better if he were a rocket scientist?

[Scott]

You've been wise and honest with her. I don't know why people are faulting you. Her's the situation. She has "decided" to stay with you, but wants to build a house in her village, where you do not want to live. She is actually building this little nest for someone (apparently, not you).

She has chosen to stay away from her daughter. I don't see any forced separation. She doesn't work, she doesn't have to work, she is well provided for.

At it's best, you are with an immature person, at it's worse you are with a money grubber, who's not being straight with you. You are the one who is being solid and stable.

[lingyai]

It's just math, 15,000 THB/month is much more then she will ever earn while employed. A house in the boonies costs less than 500k.

A friend of mine leased a 1.1mb vehicle paying 10000THB for the next 4 years. From my calculations, she would be able to pay for this house in less than 2 years. What's wrong about that? Suddenly buying a house for your family with your own money is considered unfair??? What's wrong with you? She's got more than she needs and probably more than she deserves.

Guess you'll all be going on flaming the guy if he would have been the one already ripped off by his fortune and call him a <deleted> and starting with that novel quoted lessons

Yes more than she deserves. Who does she think she is, she should be lucky to even be in Bangkok, she should be in the fields 12 hours a day. She clearly is a horrible person.

what's this living in sin rubbish. Many Thai couples live together as man and wife without having ever visited the amphur office or a buddhist ceremony. The fact they live together means they are viewed as 'married'.

If she's asking for a more legal connection to your cash, dump her. Besides she's 24 now, plenty more young flowers in the garden.

This woman is clearly a cheating good digger. How dare she ask the OP to visit her villiage.

It is an outragous request. If they had been together 20 years, then maybe one visit would be somewhat reasonable, but 5 years, way to short to even visit the villiage once. She should count her lucky stars the OP even agreed to meet her parents when they came to BKK. Clearly a black harted gold digger this woman.

Short time one night stands: take one from any bar, keep her a night or two and then look for the next one. Nothing wrong with that: you both get what you want: it is a fair deal. You will never have to take any responsability and can keep your freedom: both of you - or rather you as well as all your girls. You both satisfy your current short time needs.

In principle the above sounds easy enough but in practice days turn into weeks , weeks into months and months into years.

As for losing face in the village...........i/m sure thats just a myth put about to make us part with the readies... ......after all there is not much loss of face when the thai boyfriend gets them pregnant and then dumps them is there?

Yes clearly a myth. THere are actually celebration when a woman from a villiage gets a job a go go bar. No one looks down at her, she is pelted with roses when she is returned.

Clearly the OP is right, 5 years and she is asking for him to say he loves her, waaaaay to much to ask. Visit the villiage once, again rediculous.

Throw this harlot out in to the street.

[Aujuba]

You will always feel the way you do if you marry her. The questions you ask will never have answers and so you will carry them with you. You may be happy enough but you will always have something there. Love grows but imperfection usually lasts. Can anyone really change?

If you would like a fresh slate move on. If you don't you will have to live with what you have chosen - things won't miraculously change. By the way, a fresh slate does not mean that whatever relationship you come into and whatever partner you have next will be better.

If your girlfriend can't understand your needs now, will she ever?

To be fair would be for both of you to get what you want or to not get what you want. Win-win Lose-lose Or you can play the nice guy? Would she play the nice girl?

[bendix]

The OP is conspicuous by his absence.

I wonder if the Imperial Wizard has asked for a meeting. Or perhaps he's gone to his GF's village.

[Thaddeus]

Yes clearly a myth. THere are actually celebration when a woman from a villiage gets a job a go go bar. No one looks down at her, she is pelted with roses when she is returned.

Ah yes, the Galee Gala

Sorry, but I think the OP has stopped reading this now

[C-sip-degree]

Yes clearly a myth. THere are actually celebration when a woman from a villiage gets a job a go go bar. No one looks down at her, she is pelted with roses when she is returned.

Ah yes, the Galee Gala

Sorry, but I think the OP has stopped reading this now

Where’s the Duke! left the building......

Sounds like you have done everything you can Duke, your 48 years old with enough hard earn cash too do what ever you like don’t go changing and start too get soft on us.

Don’t budge in anyway you have made up your mind with traveling, vigor, primates and affection.

You know your shrewdness; please don’t listen to all other posts mention, even thou they are intelligent, rational heartfelt people.

Unreasonable you ask,

You are the Duke the one that governing oneself.

Do anything differently you ask,

Try to love your money for it will love you, count it out loud, talk to each dollar and then extract the maximum value from this, start too put a price valve on everything, everybody, and every activity and hone your proficiency.

You’ll have to start calculating this Status Quo now, or in your last stretch on this planet you’ll have to travel to a cheaper area.

What should I be telling her? “Ok”

Simple print out this, David Duke let me explain my situation thread.

Get it Translated, and give it to her.

Don’t go getting soft, and think about doing her a favor by visiting her Issan village they don’t need a Fish Head like you their.

C-sip

[alexth]

Yes clearly a myth. THere are actually celebration when a woman from a villiage gets a job a go go bar. No one looks down at her, she is pelted with roses when she is returned.

Ah yes, the Galee Gala

Sorry, but I think the OP has stopped reading this now

I'd do the same if I were him

[tropo]

He met her in some bar, paid her barfine and they started living together....it's amazing that 40+ guys can be this silly. You'd think that at that age, guys would know better.

You think so? There are thousands of these silly guys out there.

Yes, there are many thousands of silly guys out there marrying and supporting whores, It's a fact, but it doesn't make them "not silly" just because they are numerous.

Of course it can work, and it had a chance of working with the OP because she was still very young and probably not with too much experience...but it's a long shot.

Edited November 16, 2006 by tropo

[David Duke]

I have read each and every post in this thread and I do appreciate all of them. As for Bendix, perhaps he can find out where to purchase one of those armbands