Only bikes in Thailand rated for E20 ?

[jethro69]

I had a small discussion in a 300CBR forum yesterday, whether to use “Biofuel” (Gasohol) or not, and ended up debating about the percentage. I know the CBR300 can run on E20, and that's what I put in most of the time. I didn't notice any other mileage or behaviour then with regular or 91/95.

The funny thing a guy from the US said, his manual clearly states only 10% mix, which I didn't believe first. So I read through two other English manuals, a US/Canada and a Malaysian, and in fact the same bike there is only rated for 10%.

It took me today some time to browse through my Thai manual until I found the relevant side (besides the cover) but finally found it on page 93, where it clearly states 20% mixes are OK. It didn't even mention that the mix should be 95 RON or higher.

Makes me just wonder, what's that all about?

[JaseTheBass]

Dunno. Try asking in the bike forum.

[ktm jeff]

"Whats that all about" , you ask. Well , its marketing bull. As your page 93 clearly shows , E20 is of a standard so low as to require the 80% of petrol / gasoline to be the higher quality 95 octane fuel , where as E10 has enougth petrol/gasoline in it ( 90%) that you can "get away" with using it in some low powered /l ow compression engines in both 91 and 95 octane form. On any bike other than performance bikes , i would recommend Shell E10 91. Shell 95 " Nitro " is best for the higher compresion engines , and the expensive full fat " Benzine l" for the 2-strokes.

[casualbiker]

Tax breaks!

[Stevemercer]

Adding ethanol normally boosts the RON so I would have thought that any mix greater than 10% would always be RON 95. Just about any 4-stroke road bike sold in Thailand will happily run on 91 RON or 95 RON/10% ethanol. I'm pretty sure that 95 RON/20% ethanol would be OK, but, personally, I wouldn't use it noting that the engine will run a bit hotter and rubber seals won't last as long.

[patyh]

Well for one, Singapore and Malaysia do not offer E20/E85...

[PeeJay1959]

Well for one, Singapore and Malaysia do not offer E20/E85...

Nor does the UK, not until after 2020.

[ktm jeff]

Stevemercer , you are correct in saying the Ron and , to an extent , the Cetane rating can be raised by the addition of Ethanol / Methanol , however as Ethanol only provides about 70% of the energy that Gasoline provides , this shortcoming has to be propped up by blending it with the higher quality 95 Gasoline. It isnt totally sucsessfull though , as the lower specific energy released by E20 means you can use 10% more of it to go the same distance as Gasoline . This is why E20 91 is not recommended. And why many countries dont sell E20 , in either 91 or 95 grades. Ethanol causes many more problems than just perished seals and hotter running - as if we need the engines to run any hotter for christ sake. Wait a few years and the oil companies , and governments that forced this on them , will end up looking as foolish as they have over the diesel fuel fiasco.

[Kwasaki]

What's that all about ?.......Engine design.

You answered your own question in showing what can be used on the front of your handbook.

If me's had that bike I would just stick with 91 E10 all the time.

[questionsreplies]

so, should we avoid E20 in cars also ? even when recommended by the car book ?

[jethro69]

so, should we avoid E20 in cars also ? even when recommended by the car book ?

I don't notice any difference using E20 or 91, neither in mileage nor in performance, so if it's the same with your car, why don't go for the 2 bath/L savings.

[Kwasaki]

so, should we avoid E20 in cars also ? even when recommended by the car book ?

Why not use E20 if the engine is designed to use it.

Wife's 2008 Yaris has had no problem using E20 ever since it was available in our area.

Used E20 in daughters City from new, the newer City can take E85.

[patyh]

Stevemercer , you are correct in saying the Ron and , to an extent , the Cetane rating can be raised by the addition of Ethanol / Methanol , however as Ethanol only provides about 70% of the energy that Gasoline provides , this shortcoming has to be propped up by blending it with the higher quality 95 Gasoline. It isnt totally sucsessfull though , as the lower specific energy released by E20 means you can use 10% more of it to go the same distance as Gasoline . This is why E20 91 is not recommended. And why many countries dont sell E20 , in either 91 or 95 grades. Ethanol causes many more problems than just perished seals and hotter running - as if we need the engines to run any hotter for christ sake. Wait a few years and the oil companies , and governments that forced this on them , will end up looking as foolish as they have over the diesel fuel fiasco.

The Octane value of E85 is in the range of 94-96. So no issue on octane as well.

While Ethanol does have negative effects on rubber hose, Vehicles made for the Thailand markets for the past few years are already capable of using E20 without any issue with newer vehicles like the Honda CRV, HRV, City and Ford Fiesta and Ecosport etc are suitable for used with E85.

E20 and E85 also makes the engine runs cooler due to the cooling properties of Ethanol so I'm not sure what you mean by making the engine run hotter.

It is to be noted however, because E85 and E20 contains less energy per volume, it will result in a slight increase in fuel consumption. but the price should make up for it..

[Kwasaki]

Stevemercer , you are correct in saying the Ron and , to an extent , the Cetane rating can be raised by the addition of Ethanol / Methanol , however as Ethanol only provides about 70% of the energy that Gasoline provides , this shortcoming has to be propped up by blending it with the higher quality 95 Gasoline. It isnt totally sucsessfull though , as the lower specific energy released by E20 means you can use 10% more of it to go the same distance as Gasoline . This is why E20 91 is not recommended. And why many countries dont sell E20 , in either 91 or 95 grades. Ethanol causes many more problems than just perished seals and hotter running - as if we need the engines to run any hotter for christ sake. Wait a few years and the oil companies , and governments that forced this on them , will end up looking as foolish as they have over the diesel fuel fiasco.

The Octane value of E85 is in the range of 94-96. So no issue on octane as well.

While Ethanol does have negative effects on rubber hose, Vehicles made for the Thailand markets for the past few years are already capable of using E20 without any issue with newer vehicles like the Honda CRV, HRV, City and Ford Fiesta and Ecosport etc are suitable for used with E85.

E20 and E85 also makes the engine runs cooler due to the cooling properties of Ethanol so I'm not sure what you mean by making the engine run hotter.

It is to be noted however, because E85 and E20 contains less energy per volume, it will result in a slight increase in fuel consumption. but the price should make up for it..

Rubber hose on motors designed to run on E10, E20 & E85 don't have those fuels going through them now.