Need 21 day validity of permission to stay for visa conversion in CM

[NancyL]

I've received recent reports from retirees who have arrived in Chiang Mai with either visa exempt status or tourist visa and encountered difficulty-after-difficulty in trying to execute an in-country conversion to an non-immigration 90-day O visa at CM Immigration.

The standard roadblocks have been "photo must be on blue background", need for a TM30, proof of Thai bank account even when using an Embassy/Consulate Income Letter (no specific balance required in the account, just having an account) and of course, telling the applicant to go to the other Imm. office for some task (very handy to have two offices 20 km apart, isn't it?)

But, the most recent hiccup seems over-the-top, at least to me. Applicants this week are being told they have to have at least 21 days validity remaining on their permission to stay. Of course, if you arrive in country on 30-day visa exempt status, you really have to hussle to get everything together during the first 9 days.

I seem to recall that Bangkok requires just 15 days validity remaining on someone's permission to stay for them to apply for a conversion. Do other offices have similarly onerous rules for visa conversions?

[ubonjoe]

Immigration rules state only 15 days remaining on the entry is required. But of course CM immigration can set their own requirements.

If a person is on a visa exempt entry they can extend it for 30 days and still do the conversion. For tourist visas the application can be done at any time during the 60 entry up to the last 15 or 21 days or the 30 day extension of it.

I have heard of no other office wanting a blue back ground for the photos. Other offices only want the bank account for money in the bank or the combination method.

TM30's and proof of residence are wanted at many offices.

Pattaya/Jomtien have been reported as asking for the signatures from the embassy on income letters to be certified by the MFA when doing a conversion.

Offices that put up over the top barriers means they don't really want to do them.

Bangkok is easy but two trips 15 days apart is probably not worth it for many.

From CM a trip to Vientiane may be the best choice if they make it to difficult. Flying to Udon Thani and then a van from the airport to the bridge in Nong Khai is not that bad a trip.

[Broken Record]

Offices that put up these false barriers are waiting for the opportunity to help you, for a fee.

[kilt]

Offices that put up these false barriers are waiting for the opportunity to help you, for a fee.

Yes, it seems all those "barriers" disappear with a fee... paid to an agent of course, not directly.

And the fee is not a paltry amount.

Edited June 10, 2016 by kilt

[NancyL]

What is the "rule" in other provinces that do visa conversions? I know it's 15 days in Bangkok, but what about other areas?

Up until recently it was also 15 days in Chiang Mai.

[Suradit69]

Offices that put up these false barriers are waiting for the opportunity to help you, for a fee.

Or maybe implying that it would be more sensible and less hassle for all concerned if you entered the country on a non-imm O or O-A visa or got a non-imm O in a neighboring country.

I would think that for most people who make the decision to come here to retire that getting the correct visa before traveling wouldn't be that big a deal.

[ubonjoe]

What is the "rule" in other provinces that do visa conversions? I know it's 15 days in Bangkok, but what about other areas?

Up until recently it was also 15 days in Chiang Mai.

As I wrote before the15 day rule is nationwide at the offices that can do them.

All that I know of that can do them use the 15 day rule other than CM of course.

[NancyL]

Offices that put up these false barriers are waiting for the opportunity to help you, for a fee.

Or maybe implying that it would be more sensible and less hassle for all concerned if you entered the country on a non-imm O or O-A visa or got a non-imm O in a neighboring country.

I would think that for most people who make the decision to come here to retire that getting the correct visa before traveling wouldn't be that big a deal.

I agree it would be more sensible and less hassle if people considering retirement in Chiang Mai obtain a non-imm O or, better yet an O-A visa before coming to retire in Chiang Mai province.

I think the time has come for UbonJoe and other experts on this forum to stop advising people about how easy it is to do in-country conversions without putting in a "footnote" about Chiang Mai province. Everything in the way the Imm. office in this province operates is geared toward forcing customers to use visa agents, but they don't come right out and tell customers that. Too bad it's not like the "Malaysia My Second Home" visa program where there's a list of approved visa agents right on their website. At least you know where you stand. Here in Chiang Mai there is the illusion that an applicant can actually take care of immigration matters for himself like is possible elsewhere in the country.

Incidentally, the fee for an agent assisted conversion is at least 13,000 baht or more in excess of the standard gov't fees.

[ubonjoe]

I don't think you will find any post where I said it was easy to get a conversion. I make it clear it is a 3 step process and it is not available at all offices.

I alss suggest if possible a person should get a single entry non-o visa before traveling.

[moe666]

Stop complaining even with the requirements they have placed at least they can do them here now,just a few months ago they would have went to Bangkok twice in one month. Arrive with a non-o folks it is so much easier.

[soisanuk]

Ubonjoe:

Pattaya/Jomtien have been reported as asking for the signatures from the embassy on income letters to be certified by the MFA when doing a conversion.

The Pattaya City Expats Club (PCEC) has the following on their Chonburi Immigration update page:

We have received recent reports from Expats applying for a Non-Immigrant “O” Visa as part of the two step process to get a long stay retirement extension having arrived in Thailand on Visa Exempt or Tourist Visa status. If using an Embassy letter certifying income to meet the financial requirements, Immigration wants the Embassy Letter to have been verified by the Department of Consular Affairs (located in Bangkok in the Chaeng Wattana Government Complex – 3^rd Floor). The Legalization section will place a stamp on the document, the cost is 400 baht (regular) or 800 baht (express – same day).

Chonburi (Pattaya) Immigration also requires you have at least 21 days remaining on your permission to stay to apply for the Non-Immigrant "O" Visa. This is because they have to send it to Bangkok for approval - Bangkok as mentioned takes 15 days to process and approve the application - so the additional time is needed for the application and documents to be sent to and received from Bangkok Immigration.

I agree with Ubonjoe and NancyL - it is a lot less hassle to get the Non-Immigrant "O" Visa in a neighboring country - although a little more cumborsome, obtaining an "O-A" in your country of residence may also be preferable.

Last Sunday, at the PCEC meeting, a member told me that one person he knows went to apply last week using an Embassy Income letter and was told he needed to provide additional support for the amount shown on the letter and that it had to be a pension, not investment, rental, or other type of income. Whether that was a one time thing by that particular Immigration Officer or a new policy requirement by Pattaya Immigration, I don't know.

It does appear that stumbling blocks are being imposed, but according to one person I know, it does not seem to be a problem for "agents" to do it for you for 20k+.

Edited June 10, 2016 by soisanuk

[NancyL]

I don't think you will find any post where I said it was easy to get a conversion. I make it clear it is a 3 step process and it is not available at all offices.

I alss suggest if possible a person should get a single entry non-o visa before traveling.

This post implies it's a "same-same" process to arrive here with a tourist visa or visa exempt vs. coming with the proper O-A "retirement visa" or securing an O visa, at least.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/920751-the-difference-a-day-makes/?p=10796012

And now with the news that even Pattaya requires 21 days for a visa conversion, it's probably appropriate to encourage retiree wannabes to have their visa done and dusted before they arrive.

As president of the CM Expats Club, I've handled emails and calls from about a dozen confused and disgruntled newcomers in the past couple weeks wondering why they're receiving the treatment they're getting at CM Immigration. They really stepped up the pain index to new heights and the newbies are especially vulnerable.

[ubonjoe]

I don't think you will find any post where I said it was easy to get a conversion. I make it clear it is a 3 step process and it is not available at all offices.

I alss suggest if possible a person should get a single entry non-o visa before traveling.

This post implies it's a "same-same" process to arrive here with a tourist visa or visa exempt vs. coming with the proper O-A "retirement visa" or securing an O visa, at least.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/920751-the-difference-a-day-makes/?p=10796012

And now with the news that even Pattaya requires 21 days for a visa conversion, it's probably appropriate to encourage retiree wannabes to have their visa done and dusted before they arrive.

As president of the CM Expats Club, I've handled emails and calls from about a dozen confused and disgruntled newcomers in the past couple weeks wondering why they're receiving the treatment they're getting at CM Immigration. They really stepped up the pain index to new heights and the newbies are especially vulnerable.

I certainly did not say it was easy in that post.

For many it is not possible to get a non-o before arriving. In the UK it is not possible unless 65 and on a old age pension. Many countries only have embassies and official consulates that will only issue a OA visa. In the states the only way of getting one is from a honorary consulate,

I have seen reports of people in Pattaya doing them with less than 21 days remaining. If a person is aware of the requirement of 21 days it is not that big a issue especially it they enter on a tourist visa. For visa exempt the 30 day extension can take care of the problem unless a person does the extension and then goes to late.

As I wrote before if a person has a problem with CM immigration they should make a trip to Vientiane for a non-o visa.

[NancyL]

I don't think you will find any post where I said it was easy to get a conversion. I make it clear it is a 3 step process and it is not available at all offices.

I alss suggest if possible a person should get a single entry non-o visa before traveling.

This post implies it's a "same-same" process to arrive here with a tourist visa or visa exempt vs. coming with the proper O-A "retirement visa" or securing an O visa, at least.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/920751-the-difference-a-day-makes/?p=10796012

And now with the news that even Pattaya requires 21 days for a visa conversion, it's probably appropriate to encourage retiree wannabes to have their visa done and dusted before they arrive.

As president of the CM Expats Club, I've handled emails and calls from about a dozen confused and disgruntled newcomers in the past couple weeks wondering why they're receiving the treatment they're getting at CM Immigration. They really stepped up the pain index to new heights and the newbies are especially vulnerable.

I certainly did not say it was easy in that post.

For many it is not possible to get a non-o before arriving. In the UK it is not possible unless 65 and on a old age pension. Many countries only have embassies and official consulates that will only issue a OA visa. In the states the only way of getting one is from a honorary consulate,

I have seen reports of people in Pattaya doing them with less than 21 days remaining. If a person is aware of the requirement of 21 days it is not that big a issue especially it they enter on a tourist visa. For visa exempt the 30 day extension can take care of the problem unless a person does the extension and then goes to late.

As I wrote before if a person has a problem with CM immigration they should make a trip to Vientiane for a non-o visa.

I think you are continuing to minimize the problem in Chiang Mai. There are no reports of anyone successfully obtaining a conversion in the past few weeks without using an agent. Barrier after barrier is thrown up. This 21 day requirement is just the latest. I think it's irresponsible for you to continue to advise people that it's not that difficult to do a visa conversion without putting in the appropriate footnote about the most popular retirement destination in Thailand being one where it's impossible for someone to handle their own conversion and they should budget at least an addtional 13,000 baht (more like 15,000 - 20,000 baht) above the gov't fees to handle the "fees" to the agents.

Believe me, those "fees" aren't simply going to the agents, either.

I will continue to monitor this forum to make sure that future retirees are no longer misled about conditions at the CM Immigration office. They should do everything possible to come to Chiang Mai with the correct visa.