Is Everything Produced or Supplied Here 2nd Rate or what?

[Scotwight]

Maybe because they want to sell two of something instead of one. Duuh

Not cost-efficient. Overall profits would be higher selling high-profit margin, low-quality products with few repeat sales versus low-profit margin, high-quality products with more repeat sales but longer between purchases.

It is the lack of a "stick" in terms of law enforcement that means it is better for retailers and manufacturers here to sell tat.

Also, competition is often hindered in many sectors here by market domination and distribution policies meaning consumer choice is limited to 2 or 3 brands all low-quality and all mid-priced.

Nonsense. Competition is the cornerstone of capitalism. The one who sells the most always wins. How many 10,000 baht per hamburger restaurants are in Thailand?

Admit you are in error and move on.

I am afraid I cannot fully understand your post.

We are talking about product quality and consumer protection here.

"The one who sells the most always wins." This statement seems to back my argument. It makes no reference to product quality. As I stated earlier sectors in Thailand are dominated by mid-priced, low-quality goods. (There is no low-priced). So what sells most is low-quality goods which is what both I and the OP are stating. It is not clear what you are stating.

Thailand sells more cars than any other product by percent of GNP. They are made in Thailand with Thai management and Thai resources. The best made cars sell more than poorly made cars. The consumer is protected by the laws of capitalism. If it's no good don't buy another that is enough motivation to provide consumer protection. The one who sells the most cars wins and the one who sells the most cars is the one who makes the best cars for the price.

[mania]

I think it is sometimes true that Thailand gets products of a lesser quality sent to them as well.

I mean you see at Walmart type stores in the USA T-Shirts made in Asia, China,Taiwan,Vietnam etc

but the quality material weight etc. is definitely higher than the imports here from same countries.

Initially I thought it was logical as here they pay less so get less.

But in 2014 on a trip back to US I was somewhat surprised that prices in places like Walmart/Target/Old Navy/ American Eagle etc

were just as low & sometimes lower during sales....Yet quality was much higher

So not sure why the lower quality material exist here or perhaps sellers just take a bigger markup

Then you have things like razor blades made here under name brands

There is no way the Gillette Mach3 blades here are the same quality as the US ones

I know because I brought back like 50 of them on that 2014 trip

Yet price is same or higher here

Other things like TV etc seem ok or equal quality

Same cannot be said for washers dryers etc where places like Sears US with Kenmore brands etc

make these look like the toys they are.

But back to OP I think many things here yes are much lower quality obviously

It cannot be denied on things like hand tools etc

Of course importing exists & I have imported many things for motorcycle etc.

But you have to pay the much higher price of course

Edited June 13, 2016 by mania

[Scotwight]

I think it is sometimes true that Thailand gets products of a lesser quality sent to them as well.

I mean you see at Walmart type stores in the USA T-Shirts made in Asia, China,Taiwan,Vietnam etc

but the quality material weight etc. is definitely higher than the imports here from same countries.

Initially I thought it was logical as here they pay less so get less.

But in 2014 on a trip back to US I was somewhat surprised that prices in places like Walmart/Target/Old Navy/ American Eagle etc

were just as low & sometimes lower during sales....Yet quality was much higher

So not sure why the lower quality material exist here or perhaps sellers just take a bigger markup

Then you have things like razor blades made here under name brands

There is no way the Gillette Mach3 blades here are the same quality as the US ones

I know because I brought back like 50 of them on that 2014 trip

Yet price is same or higher here

Other things like TV etc seem ok or equal quality

Same cannot be said for washers dryers etc where places like Sears US with Kenmore brands etc

make these look like the toys they are.

But back to OP I think many things here yes are much lower quality obviously

It cannot be denied on things like hand tools etc

Of course importing exists & I have imported many things for motorcycle etc.

But you have to pay the much higher price of cours

Just a thought from Consumer Reports http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2013/04/find-the-best-washing-machines/index.htm

Edited June 13, 2016 by Scotwight

[Briggsy]

Nonsense. Competition is the cornerstone of capitalism. The one who sells the most always wins. How many 10,000 baht per hamburger restaurants are in Thailand?

Admit you are in error and move on.

I am afraid I cannot fully understand your post.

We are talking about product quality and consumer protection here.

"The one who sells the most always wins." This statement seems to back my argument. It makes no reference to product quality. As I stated earlier sectors in Thailand are dominated by mid-priced, low-quality goods. (There is no low-priced). So what sells most is low-quality goods which is what both I and the OP are stating. It is not clear what you are stating.

Thailand sells more cars than any other product by percent of GNP. They are made in Thailand with Thai management and Thai resources. The best made cars sell more than poorly made cars. The consumer is protected by the laws of capitalism. If it's no good don't buy another that is enough motivation to provide consumer protection. The one who sells the most cars wins and the one who sells the most cars is the one who makes the best cars for the price.

So, your argument seems to be by increasing quality, you increase sales and increase market share and operating profit.

This is of course basic economics and your example of the car sector in Thailand tends to support this.

So why then are so many other sectors full of shoddy-quality goods which are priced over what they should cost and more expensive than better quality equivalent products bought in other countries? I will provide you with the reasons.

1. Protectionism. Thailand imposes high import tariffs on many imported products. Even if the goods can be imported with low tariffs, the product may be denied a distribution network. This often happens with other ASEAN products.

2. Market domination. When you have say one to three producers cornering the market, it is easy for them to fix prices between themselves, fix product quality at a low level (= short cut to cost control) and deny other entrants a place in the market (by strong-arming the retailers, say).

3. Corruption. When the relationship between the big manufacturers and government ministers and their civil servants is too cosy, laws and import agreements will be written to benefit the manufacturers and not the consumer. The result is the consumer gets low-quality goods.

4. Taxation. By shifting the tax burden around, consumer behaviour is altered. Consumers then go and buy the low-tax low-quality goods rather than the high-tax high-quality goods. This links in to point 3.

5. Regulation and Enforcement. Despite the fact consumer protection laws exist, if they cannot be enforced or can be ignored at will by retailers and manufacturers, shoddy products will be sold labelled as genuine, described inaccurately and the consumer suffers.

So, why is the car market different? The answer is that quality is controlled by foreign companies. This is only true for a minority of Thailand's sectors. Toyota etc. cannot compromise their brand name by producing low-quality goods for the Thai market. However still cars are overpriced here due to point 1 (Protectionism), 2 (Market domination), probably 3 (Corruption), and definitely 4 (Taxation). So, it could be argued that even though this is not a low quality sector, the pricing is high in relation to quality.

However when you have local manufacters, local importers (determining price), local QC, etc., I agree with the OP that the price : quality ratio tends to be too high.

[impulse]

Bought a couple of Wahl units here that died quick deaths. Dunno if they aren't copies from China.? Bought a Remington clipper set in the UK a few years ago that is great quality and works just as new.

I had a Remington, bought in the USA and loved it. Worked great, so when I was on the road and forgot to pack it, I bought another. Same model number, same USA chain store. But when I got home and was able to compare the new one and the old one, the blades were different and the newer one ended up in the bin within a few months. The old one is still buzzing 10 years on.

Incidentally, they were both made in China. Seems they must have changed Chinese suppliers- probably went with the lower bid.

Here in Thailand, I use a Wahl, purchased in Chinatown and it's been cutting great for about 3 years now. It's my 2nd Wahl- after my first one was ruined when my bathroom pipe burst when I was out of town for a few weeks.

But on a similar topic, I'm convinced Thailand gets to keep all the hard drives that aren't fit to export. I've gone through more external hard drives in 5 years in Thailand than in 10 years in China- and I don't recall ever losing one in the USA.

[mania]

Just a thought from Consumer Reports

Yes sure as I said some top of the line imports here are great but price will be dbl what Sears charges

Also the majority of Thai households will not have the washer you show,

Instead it will be a semi auto manual switching type with the separate spin can

Even those cost what a basic Kenmore costs.Yet come no where near the quality

But again as I said quality exists here if you pay...but you will pay higher than

back home for the same.

[Scotwight]

Nonsense. Competition is the cornerstone of capitalism. The one who sells the most always wins. How many 10,000 baht per hamburger restaurants are in Thailand?

Admit you are in error and move on.

I am afraid I cannot fully understand your post.

We are talking about product quality and consumer protection here.

"The one who sells the most always wins." This statement seems to back my argument. It makes no reference to product quality. As I stated earlier sectors in Thailand are dominated by mid-priced, low-quality goods. (There is no low-priced). So what sells most is low-quality goods which is what both I and the OP are stating. It is not clear what you are stating.

Thailand sells more cars than any other product by percent of GNP. They are made in Thailand with Thai management and Thai resources. The best made cars sell more than poorly made cars. The consumer is protected by the laws of capitalism. If it's no good don't buy another that is enough motivation to provide consumer protection. The one who sells the most cars wins and the one who sells the most cars is the one who makes the best cars for the price.

So, your argument seems to be by increasing quality, you increase sales and increase market share and operating profit.

This is of course basic economics and your example of the car sector in Thailand tends to support this.

So why then are so many other sectors full of shoddy-quality goods which are priced over what they should cost and more expensive than better quality equivalent products bought in other countries? I will provide you with the reasons.

1. Protectionism. Thailand imposes high import tariffs on many imported products. Even if the goods can be imported with low tariffs, the product may be denied a distribution network. This often happens with other ASEAN products.

2. Market domination. When you have say one to three producers cornering the market, it is easy for them to fix prices between themselves, fix product quality at a low level (= short cut to cost control) and deny other entrants a place in the market (by strong-arming the retailers, say).

3. Corruption. When the relationship between the big manufacturers and government ministers and their civil servants is too cosy, laws and import agreements will be written to benefit the manufacturers and not the consumer. The result is the consumer gets low-quality goods.

4. Taxation. By shifting the tax burden around, consumer behaviour is altered. Consumers then go and buy the low-tax low-quality goods rather than the high-tax high-quality goods. This links in to point 3.

5. Regulation and Enforcement. Despite the fact consumer protection laws exist, if they cannot be enforced or can be ignored at will by retailers and manufacturers, shoddy products will be sold labelled as genuine, described inaccurately and the consumer suffers.

So, why is the car market different? The answer is that quality is controlled by foreign companies. This is only true for a minority of Thailand's sectors. Toyota etc. cannot compromise their brand name by producing low-quality goods for the Thai market. However still cars are overpriced here due to point 1 (Protectionism), 2 (Market domination), probably 3 (Corruption), and definitely 4 (Taxation). So, it could be argued that even though this is not a low quality sector, the pricing is high in relation to quality.

However when you have local manufacters, local importers (determining price), local QC, etc., I agree with the OP that the price : quality ratio tends to be too high.

You wrote, "When retailers and manufacturers can just ignore the justified complaints of aggrieved customers, why on earth would they bother making or selling goods of decent quality. It would reduce their profits."

That statement is what I disagreed with. Not all the other stuff you now write about corruption, taxation, protectionism and so on. I agree with you on that. The reason the beer is so awful is the control of the market by awful Thai beer companies. Although good for AA it sucks for anyone who likes beer.

I don't have a problem with goods here because I don't trust anyone and don't mind paying the extra buck but not everyone is able to do that.

And Thais are silly about authority figures. I never take a pill from any doctor without looking it up on the internet. 2 doctors in the USA and 3 in Thailand have attempted to kill me and failed because of the INTERNET. What is it the third leading cause of death is health care mistakes?

[weegee]

Easy answer for this one....YES.

[Scotwight]

Easy answer for this one....YES.

Are you sure? Mercedes-Benz celebrates 110 years in Thailand with new production line for C300 BlueTEC Hybrid

Edited June 13, 2016 by Scotwight

[ThaiPauly]

A friend of mine, now deceased, brought some lightbulbs from a shop in CM, "these cheap and good sell" said the supplier, so he brought a dozen. Took them home and proceeded to fix them into the sockets, every time he made the final twist they broke. So he went back to the shop and told them that the bulbs were crap. "Yes" said the retailer "but cheap nobody ever returns them, the good ones are Phillips but they are dearer".

So rather than return rubbish Thais put it down to bad karma and just buy different ones next time or sit in the dark!!!

[Scotwight]

A friend of mine, now deceased, brought some lightbulbs from a shop in CM, "these cheap and good sell" said the supplier, so he brought a dozen. Took them home and proceeded to fix them into the sockets, every time he made the final twist they broke. So he went back to the shop and told them that the bulbs were crap. "Yes" said the retailer "but cheap nobody ever returns them, the good ones are Phillips but they are dearer".

So rather than return rubbish Thais put it down to bad karma and just buy different ones next time or sit in the dark!!!

You must live in Chiang Mai. The rest of Thailand they buy new light bulbs at Home Pro.

[Bender]

its not about electronics, you should worry, but more the food you eat here....

A funny story, once i forgot some yogurts and they expired for 2 weeks already. I opened the yogurt pot, and it was completely fine. Not rotten as i would expected.

I was curious so ... i ate them. I didnt fall sick.

In a second though, i wonder what the thai company put in the yogurt to stay fresh for one month...

[joeyg]

I once knowingly bought a copy as it had good ratings and was quite dissapointed with the quality until I found out it was a copy of a copy. I an not joking.

It's happening a lot in the smartphone market right now.

The successful Chinese brands which have managed to build kind of a reputation like Xiaomi, Meizu etc. and whose models usually are close copies of popular designs from Apple or Samsung are now being extensively copied and fakes of these brands abound in online shops (especially Aliexpress). Quite fun to watch, really.

I just order a UMI phone from China on line at a buddy's recommendation. He's in the business and say's this one has the same specs and components as a 7-800 dollar samsung or HTC for a couple hundred bucks we'll see. he's had similar one for almost a year and loves it... Some of the Xiaomis looked very nice the reviews were good for what thats worth. And they were described as Apple clones with android soft ware.

Hey all of Apples stuff is made there right...

No apple is made in Taiwan which is why I bought an asus phone. However, the Chinese phones are getting better all the time.

As I though I came acroo a couple dozen sites that said apple is made in china https://www.google.co.th/#q=apple+products+nade+in+china

[Hammock]

Jesus,

is there any quality here these days or has there ever been any?

I bought a Wahl Pro Hair clipper set from Lazada about 3 months back, I always trusted Wahl.

The first set of clippers I got was a set of Wahl Home, that was back when I was 21, I took them all around the world, they cut my hair perfectly for 26 YEARS! only a year ago did the blades give out, the motor still runs. Never a fault never a problem.

So, I buy a set of Wahl Pro from Lazada, 2500 Baht or so, nice clippers, look good, cut the hair great initially.

Keep them oiled, keep them clean.

So today I get that itchy scratchy feeling when the sideboards start curling that tell me I need a trim.

Pull out the Wahl, switch it on and the bloody blades are seized together with rust!!!

What the hell? Are these second rate junk blades supplied to Asia? My previous clipper never had rust in over 20 years!

What is it with these companies that they seem to think selling second rate crap in Asia is OK?

High humidity?

[malt25]

Some Thai things keep on keeping on.

Mrs Malt was made here in Thailand. Still going strong after 45 years & performs quite well.

[Generalchaos]

I bought an "Aiko" brand clippers (from Japan) in Big C, now in its 4th year ! never ever had any issues.

Ha! I bought Aiko from Robinson in Chiang Mai, they were about 400 Baht and lasted two haircuts, hence the reason I splashed out and bought the Wahl from Lazada.

The quality of the steel blades seems to be the biggest problem, the motor / solenoid is fine and very powerful.

The Wahl clippers from years ago were made in the States and although the blades are dull, they are rust free (after 20 years) The new Wahl from Lazada are starting to show signs of rusting already.

I think the best way to keep them operable is to add a bit of Wahl or Singer oil and switch them on once a week, it should stop them binding together and remove any rust from the contacting faces.

Definitely not the same quality of steel as the original US manufacturers. (Yes, they are made in China)

[Generalchaos]

Jesus,

is there any quality here these days or has there ever been any?

I bought a Wahl Pro Hair clipper set from Lazada about 3 months back, I always trusted Wahl.

The first set of clippers I got was a set of Wahl Home, that was back when I was 21, I took them all around the world, they cut my hair perfectly for 26 YEARS! only a year ago did the blades give out, the motor still runs. Never a fault never a problem.

So, I buy a set of Wahl Pro from Lazada, 2500 Baht or so, nice clippers, look good, cut the hair great initially.

Keep them oiled, keep them clean.

So today I get that itchy scratchy feeling when the sideboards start curling that tell me I need a trim.

Pull out the Wahl, switch it on and the bloody blades are seized together with rust!!!

What the hell? Are these second rate junk blades supplied to Asia? My previous clipper never had rust in over 20 years!

What is it with these companies that they seem to think selling second rate crap in Asia is OK?

High humidity?

Yes indeed, high humidity and poor quality steel - As I said in a follow up post, the Wahl clippers that were made over 20 years ago in the USA have not one spot of rust. The blades on these bought in Thailand are rusting within a few months.

[anotheruser]

I once knowingly bought a copy as it had good ratings and was quite dissapointed with the quality until I found out it was a copy of a copy. I an not joking.

It's happening a lot in the smartphone market right now.

The successful Chinese brands which have managed to build kind of a reputation like Xiaomi, Meizu etc. and whose models usually are close copies of popular designs from Apple or Samsung are now being extensively copied and fakes of these brands abound in online shops (especially Aliexpress). Quite fun to watch, really.

I just order a UMI phone from China on line at a buddy's recommendation. He's in the business and say's this one has the same specs and components as a 7-800 dollar samsung or HTC for a couple hundred bucks we'll see. he's had similar one for almost a year and loves it... Some of the Xiaomis looked very nice the reviews were good for what thats worth. And they were described as Apple clones with android soft ware.

Hey all of Apples stuff is made there right...

No apple is made in Taiwan which is why I bought an asus phone. However, the Chinese phones are getting better all the time.

Yourpost is confusing but I am sure Apple is made in China.

[Scotwight]

I bought some hair clippers three years ago in Thailand for 300 baht. Still running great and you can use them in the shower too.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think the answer to the OP's question is pretty much correct... yes!

I'm sure there are exceptions. But it's probably a combination of shoddily produced Thai local products combined with equally or more shoddily produced Chinese products that get imported into Thailand knowing they're going to be sold in a low-income country.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

its not about electronics, you should worry, but more the food you eat here....

A funny story, once i forgot some yogurts and they expired for 2 weeks already. I opened the yogurt pot, and it was completely fine. Not rotten as i would expected.

I was curious so ... i ate them. I didnt fall sick.

In a second though, i wonder what the thai company put in the yogurt to stay fresh for one month...

Food coloring, saccharine and bacteria in the streetside OJ bottles.

Bacteria and chemicals in the bottled and machine vended water.

Pesticides on the veggies, even the supposedly organic/pesticide-free ones.

Eternally re-used cooking oil, weevil-infested Thai rice, sushi fish dyed red or orange.

Etc etc etc. Beginning to get the picture???

[anotheruser]

Be thankful you don't live in Laos where things have already passed through Thailand, been rejected and then receive a mark up on price. I can not see any product available in Thailand that is in the top tier of what is offered. Possible exceptions are ultra luxury items such as Burberry bags and rolex watches. Gardening products, imported food stuff, machinery of any kind are all subpar.

We pay double the prices for half the quality here in Thailand. I don't want to make this thread about price as it is about quality. In most cases as far as engines go Honda is at the top here, where I come from Honda isn't held in bad regard but it would be nowhere near the top. That Honda would most likely be made in Thailand and explicitly forbidden to export to any country with consumer protection or standards.

China can dump many of their goods off on Thailand because they know they will not be scrutinized. There is a reason that return policies are utterly abysmal in Thailand even when buying through a somewhat reputable company.

For example I noticed the jars of olives I buy from the supermarket here are mushy. They are nothing special back home and just a common brand but what is offered here seems like it comes off of the rejected rack. I have had a lot of experience with food items that are just normal back home being unusable here.

I am sure they are auctioned to places like Vi**a and others and kept in big piles to get rid of to resell to markets with no consumer control laws in place along with anti-defamation laws that are strong. This combo is perfect for pawning off goods that would otherwise be consigned to the trash heap.

[Lannig]

its not about electronics, you should worry, but more the food you eat here....

A funny story, once i forgot some yogurts and they expired for 2 weeks already. I opened the yogurt pot, and it was completely fine. Not rotten as i would expected.

I was curious so ... i ate them. I didnt fall sick.

In a second though, i wonder what the thai company put in the yogurt to stay fresh for one month...

Nothing. If you keep them in the fridge there's absolutely no risk eating a yogurt 2 weeks past its expiration date. I have a vet in my family, presumably knowledgeable about these things and she always tells me that her 3 children have been fed with expired yogurts (here in Europe) because she was working too hard to go buy food so they were having what was left in the fridge.

OTOH expiration date on anything that contains eggs or egg products (pudding etc.) should be taken very seriously, she says.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Lannig

[anotheruser]

You can pretty much eat anything past the sell buy dates. Those are only there so if you do it isn't the companies fault. The dates are to avoid litigation. That being said many foods past their sell by dates are sold over here as a matter of course or even worse a sticker with a new one is put on to cover the old one.

Edited June 14, 2016 by anotheruser

[NCFC]

I think the climate has a lot to do with it.

If you do not take care to ensure against humidity and mould almost everything will succumb, the soles of shoes falling off/crumbling, electrical insulation breaking down/falling apart, the paper in books decaying.

The climate in Thailand might be friendly to your bones but it takes no prisoners from the stuff we buy.

The sun here us an absolute killer of plastics also, they go brittle and snap very easily in a very short time frame.

Uk training shoes peel like a banana with the heat ,the glue simply doesnt hold them together. I oil all tools after use.

I oil my tool before use. The wife is happier.

[Scotwight]

I've had 6 houses in Thailand bought everything in Thailand and everything works. I really don't know what you fellows are on about. Could it be Karma? I bought a 300 baht waterproof hair clippers that are working after 3 years and a electric drill also for 300 baht that is working after three years too. I bought a used cell phone and it worked for a month and I had some problems and they have it in the shop now fixing it. My new Galaxy S5 stopped after two years and Samsung fixed it for free. The animals keep eating my fiber optic cable but the guys are out to fix it in a day or so with no problems. My current new house has some minor problems but considering the price I paid I really can't complain and I fix the problems as they arise. My Thai dog works fine as does my Thai wife.

[sturdyd]

I won't comment on large purchases such as cars, refrigerators, washing machines, etc., since as has been pointed out these items are under the control of large corporations who have a stake in quality. But other items -- the day to day stuff -- coffee pots, can openers, hand tools, etc. are generally pretty crappy. It seems to be that if it looks good, fine. If it actually serves its purpose, well that's a bonus! I can't think of all the little things I've bought that broke on first use or simply didn't do the job for which they were designed. Quite frustrating.

[Scotwight]

I won't comment on large purchases such as cars, refrigerators, washing machines, etc., since as has been pointed out these items are under the control of large corporations who have a stake in quality. But other items -- the day to day stuff -- coffee pots, can openers, hand tools, etc. are generally pretty crappy. It seems to be that if it looks good, fine. If it actually serves its purpose, well that's a bonus! I can't think of all the little things I've bought that broke on first use or simply didn't do the job for which they were designed. Quite frustrating.

I have a lot of things around the house that are Thai made I'll post one. I've used it every day for 3 years and it is still like new.

Ask anyone where the "delat not" is. Every Thai town I've lived in has had at least one. I buy a lot of stuff there. Cheap and most of the time no problems.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Scotwight

[Stradavarius37]

Yes everything. Happy that your racial bias has been confirmed?

[malt25]

Yes everything. Happy that your racial bias has been confirmed?

Just out of curiosity, who are you responding to ?