Bringing Thaksin To Account

[sriracha john]

Not sure what happened to the thread, but it provided links to two YouTube videos of a news program that covered the Drug War killings and was aired last month on television:

Part 1:

Part 2:

Edited October 13, 2007 by sriracha john

[hammered]

Not sure what happened to the thread, but it provided links to two YouTube videos of a news program that covered the Drug War killings and was aired last month on television:

Part 1:

Part 2:

Thanks for those links. Well worth a watch.

[Blackandwhite]

Drug dealers, well the warning went out, stop or there is a chance it could cost you your life !!

How many years pre Thaksin did it take to try and build the new Airport ?? Loads

How many years did Thaksin did it take to try and build the new Airport ? Three

Did drug abuse levels improve in Thailand due to Thaksin ? Yes

Thaksin

Taxed the rich to help the poor ? Yes

Built more schools ? Yes

Help tens of thousands of poor Thais be able to visit the doctor or hospital for 30 baht ? Yes

Improved relations with other countries ? Yes

Increased the general economy of Thailand ? Yes

Lead the country with an iron hand and he was ruthless in doing so ? Yes

Invested in his own country ? Yes

Did he dodge paying his own Tax ? Yes

Well as far as I can see all governments all over the world are always slightly corrupt, but ask your self. Will Thailand continue to forge forward from strength to strength ?

Now Thailand has ruthlessly and aggressively forced out Thaksin in exactly the same way he is being accused of being, I cant help but wonder what will happen to Thailand's economical growth ??

Here in the Uk

Drug dealers, are ruthless and in return for destroying lives, murder and all that comes with drugs the only penalty is usually a pathetic prison term which shortened if they behave in prison, then they are allowed out to continue as they did before they went to prison

The same story , with Rapists, Peados, Murderers, Car thieves, burglars, Kidnappers, Terrorists and many others.

Was the way Thaksin ran Thailand really that bad, in consideration to him I think not

Note

Well please be sure my thoughts above are not to provoke anyone but simply my many rambling thoughts regards this situation, I apologise in advance if you feel I am wrong to presume any of the above.

[sriracha john]

Here in the Uk

Drug dealers.... the only penalty is usually a pathetic prison term

Was the way Thaksin ran Thailand really that bad, in consideration to him I think not

With Thaksin now in the UK, perhaps he could utilize his past expertise to assist in directing the Brown government to non-judicially murder several thousand random Brits...

[Plus]

Simon Wiesenthal, the man who hunted Nazi criminals all his life, was often misunderstood and ignored.

Politics around him at that time were less than conducive but he persevered nevertheless. He could have stopped by citing the reason often mentioned in this thread - unless you go after everyone involved, there's no point in even trying.

At one point opinion polls showed 97% support for a former Nazi against 3% for Wieznthal. He didn't give up.

>>>>

Trying to bring Thaksin to justice for drug war murders is a noble quest that should be supported, too, but the reality is that most people ("democratic opinion"?) would rather want to let the issue rest under one pretext or another, and ignore and even deride people who take it to the heart.

[ClaytonSeymour]

Perhaps Thaksin could gain UK citizenship, stand for PM, then order the extra judicial killings of the UK's drug dealers? I'd vote for him; I applaud such courageous measures.

[ClaytonSeymour]

Drug dealers, well the warning went out, stop or there is a chance it could cost you your life !!

How many years pre Thaksin did it take to try and build the new Airport ?? Loads

How many years did Thaksin did it take to try and build the new Airport ? Three

Did drug abuse levels improve in Thailand due to Thaksin ? Yes

Thaksin

Taxed the rich to help the poor ? Yes

Built more schools ? Yes

Help tens of thousands of poor Thais be able to visit the doctor or hospital for 30 baht ? Yes

Improved relations with other countries ? Yes

Increased the general economy of Thailand ? Yes

Lead the country with an iron hand and he was ruthless in doing so ? Yes

Invested in his own country ? Yes

Did he dodge paying his own Tax ? Yes

Well as far as I can see all governments all over the world are always slightly corrupt, but ask your self. Will Thailand continue to forge forward from strength to strength ?

Now Thailand has ruthlessly and aggressively forced out Thaksin in exactly the same way he is being accused of being, I cant help but wonder what will happen to Thailand's economical growth ??

Here in the Uk

Drug dealers, are ruthless and in return for destroying lives, murder and all that comes with drugs the only penalty is usually a pathetic prison term which shortened if they behave in prison, then they are allowed out to continue as they did before they went to prison

The same story , with Rapists, Peados, Murderers, Car thieves, burglars, Kidnappers, Terrorists and many others.

Was the way Thaksin ran Thailand really that bad, in consideration to him I think not

Note

Well please be sure my thoughts above are not to provoke anyone but simply my many rambling thoughts regards this situation, I apologise in advance if you feel I am wrong to presume any of the above.

The positives certainly seem to outweigh the negatives.

[younghusband]

Simon Wiesenthal, the man who hunted Nazi criminals all his life, was often misunderstood and ignored.

Politics around him at that time were less than conducive but he persevered nevertheless. He could have stopped by citing the reason often mentioned in this thread - unless you go after everyone involved, there's no point in even trying.

At one point opinion polls showed 97% support for a former Nazi against 3% for Wieznthal. He didn't give up.

>>>>

Trying to bring Thaksin to justice for drug war murders is a noble quest that should be supported, too, but the reality is that most people ("democratic opinion"?) would rather want to let the issue rest under one pretext or another, and ignore and even deride people who take it to the heart.

Hardly comparable and a disservice to Wiesenthal.The Nazis went after innocent Jewish victims as part of their loathsome race crazed ideology.The drugs war in Thailand went after criminals, albeit often getting it wrong and ignoring due process but it was designed to rid society of a terrible affliction.

[ClaytonSeymour]

Simon Wiesenthal, the man who hunted Nazi criminals all his life, was often misunderstood and ignored.

Politics around him at that time were less than conducive but he persevered nevertheless. He could have stopped by citing the reason often mentioned in this thread - unless you go after everyone involved, there's no point in even trying.

At one point opinion polls showed 97% support for a former Nazi against 3% for Wieznthal. He didn't give up.

>>>>

Trying to bring Thaksin to justice for drug war murders is a noble quest that should be supported, too, but the reality is that most people ("democratic opinion"?) would rather want to let the issue rest under one pretext or another, and ignore and even deride people who take it to the heart.

Hardly comparable and a disservice to Wiesenthal.The Nazis went after innocent Jewish victims as part of their loathsome race crazed ideology.The drugs war in Thailand went after criminals, albeit often getting it wrong and ignoring due process but it was designed to rid society of a terrible affliction.

If you don't go after everyone involved it implies selective justice.

[brahmburgers]

Justice panel to review TRT cabinet meetings

Thaksin's drugs war policy under scrutiny

By Supawadee Inthawong, Bangkok Post

An independent committee looking into alleged extra-judicial killings during the 2003 war on drugs has agreed to examine Thaksin Shinawatra's cabinet meetings to find out more about the drugs war policy blamed for more than 2,500 deaths. A source close to the committee said the members deemed it necessary to study and analyse what was discussed during the cabinet meetings at the time.

According to the source, the minutes of the meetings might offer clues as to how the policy laid down by deposed prime minister Thaksin turned violent.

it's a step in the right direction. What would really be insightful would be conversations and directives behind closed doors. Even in the best scenario, it will be vey difficult to bust a popularly elected prime minister who was in office at the time of the alleged crimes. There are so many brick walls that Thaksin can erect, and if all his defenses fail, he can simply stay away from Thailand. I doubt the Hague will persue it, because the evidence is hazy and embedded in the bowels of the bottomless labarinth known as Thai bureaucracy.

[AGareth2]

I agree with the stament- more positives than negatives.

Hey which countries leaders aren't corrupt?

[sriracha john]

Probe into drug war nearly complete

The independent committee probing the 2003 war on drugs has made satisfactory progress in reviewing more than 2,500 mysterious deaths, which may collectively be classified as a crime against humanity, chairman Kanit na Nakhon said yesterday.

"The committee's six subcommittees are close to completing their assignments and a final report should be ready within the government's term," Kanit said.

The committee is expected to complete its report in December.

Subcommittee chairman Charan Pakdithanakul said he was examining drug-suppression policies.

"It's clear about accountability, although my panel has yet to rule on the miscreants and to what extent they should be held accountable on political, criminal and civil counts," he said.

Subcommittee chairman Kraisak Choonhavan said he found 18 reports from international human-rights advocacy groups pinpointing violations in connection with the harsh containment measures.

In some countries, including Germany and Spain, the high toll of drug-related killings would have been prosecuted under provisions of crimes against humanity, Kraisak said, but he was not sure if the same could be applied here because of a lack of precedents.

Kraisak's colleague Kitti Limchaikit said he was trying to draw a comparison of drug-related killings before, during and after the war on drugs.

- The Nation

[sriracha john]

War on drugs victims should petition the ICC: Kraisak

Investigators try to wrap up case

Relatives of people killed during the Thaksin administration's war on drugs could petition the International Criminal Court (ICC) as the scheme was tantamount to a crime against humanity, according to the committee investigating the extra-judicial killings. Kraisak Choonhavan, who chairs the committee's foreign affairs sub-panel, yesterday said an incident with 100 civilian casualties was enough to constitute a war crime. The 2003 anti-drugs policy incurred much greater numbers of killings. The extra-judicial killings during the three-month war on drugs campaign stood at 2,912. More than 1,100 deaths remained unaccounted for, he said. The panel would be able to determine criminal, civil and political accountabilities after it studied overseas cases of genocide and crimes against humanity, Jarun Pukditanakul, permanent secretary for justice and head of a policy sub-panel said. The panel also needed information from government agencies and the media, particularly the recorded interviews and press conferences about the campaign.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/28Oct2007_news09.php

[marshbags]

The following is one of several reports relating to the effects and ethics of the EKj,s and who was responsible for it,s activism in the quest to acquire world renown as a great leader / renowned statesman.

Sadly we all know the reality of his actions and what his evil intentions mean / meant to all those who became the horrific statistics * of his policies and the actions of his subordinates / henchmen.

* Those murdered ( well in excess of the figures quoted by the ICC in S.J,s last article ) and their surviving relatives which can be multiplide by many, many more

Courtesy of the H.R.Watch

Quote:-

Not Enough Graves:

The War on Drugs, HIV/AIDS, and Violations of Human Rights in Thailand

Why do you have to kill people? . . . It’s better to help drug users find ways to change their behavior instead of killing them. There are not enough graves to bury us all.

—Odd Thanunchai, twenty-six, a recovering heroin user in Chiang Mai

A violent state-sponsored “war on drugs” is jeopardizing Thailand's long struggle to become one of Southeast Asia's leading rights-respecting democracies. Officially launched in February 2003, the government crackdown has resulted in the unexplained killing of more than 2,000 persons, the arbitrary arrest or blacklisting of several thousand more, and the endorsement of extreme violence by government officials at the highest levels. In the process, Thailand’s fight against human immunodefiency virus/acquired immune deficiency syndrome (HIV/AIDS), for which it has received international praise, has been severely undermined by a climate of fear that has driven injection drug users, in particular, underground.

Upon taking office in February 2001, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra declared the “prevention and suppression” of narcotic drugs as one of his top priorities. He pledged that the government would strictly enforce drug trafficking laws and remove legal and other barriers to drug treatment and rehabilitation. Despite his rhetorical commitment to humane responses to Thailand’s drug problem, Thaksin’s anti-drug campaign quickly evolved into a violent and murderous “war on drugs.” Beginning in February 2003, the Thaksin government instructed police and local officials that persons charged with drug offenses should be considered “security threats” and dealt with in a “ruthless” and “severe” manner. The result of the initial three-month phase of this campaign was some 2,275 extrajudicial killings, which the government blamed largely on gangs involved in the drug trade; arbitrary inclusion of drug suspects on poorly prepared government “blacklists” or “watchlists;” intimidation of human rights defenders;violence, arbitrary arrest, and other breaches of due process by Thai police; and coerced or mandatory drug treatment.

This report gives special attention to unlawful state practices in the war on drugs against suspected drug users and their effect on drug users’ ability to seek and gain access to HIV/AIDS services. Human Rights Watch found that one consequence of the war on drugs was to drive countless drug users into hiding and away from what few services existed to help protect them from HIV. Interviews with peer educators and outreach workers revealed that drug users who had previously sought services were living in hiding, sometimes in the mountains in northern Thailand, where even their peers could not find them. A researcher who had helped to recruit hundreds of drug users for a study of HIV prevention said that over three quarters of them disappeared when the drug war began. Of those who were surveyed during the drug war, some reported increased syringe sharing (and associated HIV risk) due to reduced availability of sterile syringes.

The climate of fear created by extrajudicial killings and “blacklisting,” which caused many drug users to go into hiding, was reinforced by arbitrary arrests and other human rights violations by Thai police. Numerous persons who were arrested told Human Rights Watch that police had planted drugs in their pockets, forced them to sign false confessions, or threatened to arrest them simply for not being enrolled in drug treatment. In an effort to fill arrest quotas, police frequently—and sometimes violently—pinned drug trafficking charges on people they knew to have a history of drug use.

Arrested drug users frequently spent time in pre-trial detention or prison, where heroin was available and syringe sharing was rampant, but where drug rehabilitation and HIV prevention programs were wholly inadequate. Drug users reported sharing makeshift syringes in Thai prisons with dozens offellow inmates. Prison officials did not provide inmates with information about HIV and other blood-borne infections or access to HIV prevention services. A 2002 survey of 1,865 Thai drug users found that HIV prevalence rates were almost twice as high among males who had been incarcerated as among males who had not.

Despite a widespread perception that injected heroin is no longer a drug of choice in Thailand, injection drug users number anywhere from 100,000 to 250,000 in the country according to available estimates. The sharing of blood-contaminated syringes is a remarkably efficient way to spread HIV and other blood-borne viruses. An estimated 40 percent of injection drug users in Thailand are living with HIV/AIDS, the same figure as in 1988 when an explosive HIV epidemic first appeared among heroin users in Bangkok. Drug users are projected to account for 30 percent of new HIV infections in Thailand by 2005, a higher percentage than any other group.

Thailand enjoys an international reputation as a “best practice” model in the fight against AIDS, principally because of its successful “100 percent condom” campaign in the 1990s. With respect to drug users, however, the Thai government has rejected similarly effective HIV prevention programs in favor of policies of arbitrary arrest, mass incarceration, and forced drug treatment. Syringe exchange, a strategy recommended by the World Health Organization (WHO) that allows drug users to exchange blood-contaminated syringes for sterile ones, is opposed by the Thai government despite its proven track record in reducing HIV transmission without increasing drug use. Methadone, a prescription drug that reduces heroin craving and its associated risks, is severely limited in Thai drug treatment centers. An estimated 1 percent of Thai drug users were receiving HIV prevention services as of February 2004, including those who obtained condoms through the 100 percent condom program.

Throughout the war on drugs, the Thai government at the highest levels encouraged violence and discrimination against anyone suspected of using or trafficking narcotic drugs. At the outset of the war on drugs, Prime Minister Thaksin sought to distinguish between drug users, who he said should be treated as “victims” and “patients,” and drug traffickers, who were to be harshly punished. In practice, drug users along with drug traffickers became the targets of state-sponsored killings and ill-treatment. Many drug users were coerced into treatment during the drug war under fear of arrest. Those who enrolled were given substandard treatment, often consisting of military-style drills in hastily established treatment “boot camps.” Outside of treatment, drug users shared accounts of discrimination in hospitals and other public institutions, and exclusion from government-sponsored HIV/AIDS treatment programs.

The clearest outcome of the war on drugs was not to curb Thailand’s illegal drug trade, but simply to make it more dangerous. Most drug users interviewed by Human Rights Watch reported continuing to use heroin or methamphetamines during the drug war, albeit at a higher cost and less frequently. Treatment experts noted that many of those who reported to drug treatment in early 2003 were not drug users at all, but rather people who feared for their lives because they were suspected of drug involvement. Many of those named on government “blacklists” and “watchlists” had been mistakenly included or reported by personal rivals. For this futile exercise in drug control, thousands of Thais have paid a high price. While Thailand’s human rights record may yet improve, those who lost their lives as a result of the war on drugs—whether from a bullet or a shared syringe—will never recover.

Unquote

Ref the following url for many more references and reports that are listed in the right hand column:-

http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/aids/2004/thai.htm

Especially for those who are unaware and unfamiliar with the EKJ,s and wish to read up on the topic without having to go through the thread.

While the investigation is to be applauded, it falls short of accuracy regarding facts, figures and addressing accountability.

It has all the information and evidence it needs at it,s fingertips should the desire to do a thorough investigation truly exist.

marshbags

Edited October 28, 2007 by marshbags

[Plus]

If you don't go after everyone involved it implies selective justice.

That's what Simon Wiesnthal was sometimes accused of. He tried the best he could with whatever resources he had.

Hardly comparable and a disservice to Wiesenthal.The Nazis went after innocent Jewish victims as part of their loathsome race crazed ideology.The drugs war in Thailand went after criminals...

The similarity lies in the struggle of one man to achieve justice in a largely indifferent world. He faced the same kind of obstacles as Kraisak in Thailand or Marshbags in this forum.

And Nazis thought the jews were criminals, too, btw. Does it excuse them? You seem to let Thaksin off the hook on teh same grounds.

Another point - Thai jails are full to the brim with people on drug offences but how many drug dealers were legally executed in the past decade?

If, during the drug war, those blacklisted dealers were arrested and put through the system instead of being shot on the spot, how many of them, even if convicted would actually be executed? Everyone else was a victim of murder, or an extermination campaign, or "crimes against humanity" - depending on the flavour of the day.

[sriracha john]

PPP's campaign slogan: "Vote Samak, Get Thaksin" at it's worst...

The People Power Party will revive the controversial "war on drugs" policy of the Thaksin government, placing it high on its election campaign agenda said Noppadon Pattama, PPP deputy secretary-general and chief of the policy planning team. Introduced by Thaksin, the "war on drugs" policy resulted in 2,912 deaths, according to a committee appointed by the current government to investigate alleged extra-judicial killings during the so-called war on drugs. The then government was criticised for offering a quick fix to the nation's drug problems, and for solely focusing on the issue of law and order without integrating the socio-economic aspects that drive the drug trade. However, Noppadon downplayed concerns that another "war on drugs" would result in further extra-judicial killings as alleged under the Thaksin government. The PPP would be responsible for formulating the drug suppression policy, but not for executing it. "If drug dealers start shooting police officers, we [a government] will be unable to tell them to stop," he said.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/29Oct2007_news06.php

Edited October 29, 2007 by sriracha john

[Tony Clifton]

So far the PPP has been doing nothing but playing the victim and now this insult to the country with the announcement of yet another war on drugs when the impact and complete mess from the last war hasn't been sorted out.

Seems the PPP's priorities are set to downplay Mr. T's last war on drugs by yet kick-starting another one, as if no controversy remained.

"Vote PPP and save the little emperor's exiled ass from jail at all cost!"

Edited October 29, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[hammered]

So far the PPP has been doing nothing but playing the victim and now this insult to the country with the announcement of yet another war on drugs when the impact and complete mess from the last war hasn't been sorted out.

Seems the PPP's priorities are set to downplay Mr. T's last war on drugs by yet kick-starting another one, as if no controversy remained.

"Vote PPP and save the little emperor's exiled ass from jail at all cost!"

In reality the PPP is nothing but a mouthpiece for Mr. Thaksin, so you cant expect it to be critical of any of his polices etc. The idea of Samak leading as war on drugs is not something to ponder lightly considering his own human rights record. After that statement we had better hope they dont win.

[jayjayjayjay]

So far the PPP has been doing nothing but playing the victim and now this insult to the country with the announcement of yet another war on drugs when the impact and complete mess from the last war hasn't been sorted out.

Seems the PPP's priorities are set to downplay Mr. T's last war on drugs by yet kick-starting another one, as if no controversy remained.

"Vote PPP and save the little emperor's exiled ass from jail at all cost!"

In reality the PPP is nothing but a mouthpiece for Mr. Thaksin, so you cant expect it to be critical of any of his polices etc. The idea of Samak leading as war on drugs is not something to ponder lightly considering his own human rights record. After that statement we had better hope they dont win.

Tony and Hammmered, you 2 still going at it!!! What was it, 6 months ago I last checked in??? I hope you enjoy what I predicted 10 months ago, a new government of Sonah, Banharn, Chavalit or Sondhi, the old cliche warlords who really know how to line their pockets. They just know how to share it around, therefor don't upset the statusquo. You can complain all about Taksin until you are red in the face. You are both so drunk on your commentary of hate Taksin rhetoric that it really is useless anyone ever putting an arguement forward. Live and let live......... i repeat myself, democracy is not brought about by military junta!!!!! I will stand by you when and only when a court under a democratic government does prove beyond reasonable doubt that Taksin and his cronies commited crimes against the state. Until then, your incredible one-eyed stance is no better than any of the sinister fascist leaders of the 20th century.

And yes, I dont care for the majority of the drug dealers etc who were cleaned up last time, this made Thailand livable for the moment. I teach my 11 & 12 year old daughters the best I can to understand and respect drugs, I dont hide them from the issue, however, I do feel safer to a degree that there are no drug dealers "standing in front of the school" or young school kids 13 and 14yrs dealing drugs "in the school" like there was at the time of the last Chuan Lekphai government......

[jayjayjayjay]

Regardless - why should Thaksin be exonerated of HIS crimes? He did his part and he should be punished for it. So far he hasn't pointed fingers at anyone else as an excuse.

He shouldn't be exonerated.

Nevertheless, when the sham investigations are only limited to him as the one who gave the order, then the whole thing is a entirely fruitless exercise, and changes nothing in the system of using extra judicial killings as a semi-legitimate tool of the Thai state to fight what is declared an enemy of the state.

Which we can see now - Thaksin is gone, and the present powers use death squads again, as usual. While the debate is steered towards Thaksin, the brutalities go on with hardly any resistence. Blame Thaksin as much as you want, but as long as the system of informal power networks circumventing formal power is not dismantled, Thailand will stay the eternal under achiever stuck in banana republic status.

Here here Colpyay, a rational statement amongest the idiotic drivel commentary here.

[younghusband]

If you don't go after everyone involved it implies selective justice.

That's what Simon Wiesnthal was sometimes accused of. He tried the best he could with whatever resources he had.

Hardly comparable and a disservice to Wiesenthal.The Nazis went after innocent Jewish victims as part of their loathsome race crazed ideology.The drugs war in Thailand went after criminals...

The similarity lies in the struggle of one man to achieve justice in a largely indifferent world. He faced the same kind of obstacles as Kraisak in Thailand or Marshbags in this forum.

And Nazis thought the jews were criminals, too, btw. Does it excuse them? You seem to let Thaksin off the hook on teh same grounds.

Another point - Thai jails are full to the brim with people on drug offences but how many drug dealers were legally executed in the past decade?

If, during the drug war, those blacklisted dealers were arrested and put through the system instead of being shot on the spot, how many of them, even if convicted would actually be executed? Everyone else was a victim of murder, or an extermination campaign, or "crimes against humanity" - depending on the flavour of the day.

Endless posts on expatriate forums are with respect not really a struggle to achieve justice.Taking the Wiesenthal example however, he was aware that the evil of the genocide was not down to one man.Otherwise he would not have pursued Nazi criminals at all after 1945 since the Fuhrer was long dead.It's also ridiculous to compare the holocaust with the shabby Thailand drugs war, but you seem misinformed on Nazi attitudes: the Jews were seen by the racial purists as an inferior breed not as criminals per se.Once again let's remind ourselves that the drugs war was an attempt,while undoubtedly incompetent and brutal, to rid the country of an appalling social scourge.

As I have said countless times before Thaksin should be made to account for his part in the drugs war, but such a process would pull in the great and powerful as well as the executioners.That's why it or an honest debate will never happen.The only reason it's being discussed, even now at the very margin of the Thaksin saga, is because it's seen as a possible weapon in the political vendetta now under way.

What one would give for some intellectual honesty in these dreadful days Thailand is suffering.

[Plus]

Taking the Wiesenthal example however, he was aware that the evil of the genocide was not down to one man

Do you think he believed even for a second that he could bring ALL Nazi criminals to justice? He knew perfectly well that his efforts would only be a drop in the ocean.

Do you think Kraisak hopes to bring everyone involved in drug war to justice? Do you think his only motivation is political vendetta against Thaksin?

There are more similarities that you dare to admit.

[hammered]

Following the international norm on human rights abuse cases sees the head of the government usually being the main target - Charles Taylor, Slobodan etc. That logic would indicaste that Mr. Thaksin should be the main target of an investigation into the drug etc extra judicial stuff. This would also be supported by the human rights group investigations which even label it as Thaksins drug war. That aside there are other cases of human rights abuses not by or under the Thaksin regime which should also be investigated if the issue of continuing and past human rights abuses are to be cleared up and strides made forward. That however does not mena that Mr. Thaksin should not be put up in front of a court and tried for what occurred under his tenure. Will this happen? Unlikely imho. Will there be an investigation into any other abuses? Unlikely unless the Thakasinistas return to power and then decide to run their vengeance campaign. Unfortunately what it comes down to is that human rights investigations are and will almost certainly continue to only occur when driven by a political vendetta. Of course the wrong rationale can still result in the right outcome in certain cases, but it only ever results a limited amount of investigation. And unfortunately that is not limited to Thailand.

[younghusband]

Taking the Wiesenthal example however, he was aware that the evil of the genocide was not down to one man

Do you think he believed even for a second that he could bring ALL Nazi criminals to justice? He knew perfectly well that his efforts would only be a drop in the ocean.

Do you think Kraisak hopes to bring everyone involved in drug war to justice? Do you think his only motivation is political vendetta against Thaksin?

There are more similarities that you dare to admit.

Taking your points in turn

1.You are really just making my point.Wiesenthal pursued all the war criminals he could, and he was not focused on just one man.In the Thailand drugs war, the sole focus is on Thaksin.

2.Kraisak is an honourable man, but yes I do believe that some of his more vocal backers are mainly motivated by a political vendetta against Thaksin.

[sriracha john]

Drug-war panel to raise four killings

The Independent Investigative Committee on the Casualties of the 2003 War on Drugs will soon submit its first report to the government, proposing compensation for relatives of four victims that were killed under former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's policy, said a source.

The source, who asked not to be named, said the four victims were nine-year-old Chakraphan "Fluke" Srisaard, Nikhon Unkaew and his wife Kanya, and Ooy Hemmun.

Fluke was killed by police when he was in his father's car while police disguised as drug-buyers tried to buy methamphetamines from his father.

Nikhom and Kanya were killed after they reported to police as their names were on a government list of suspected drug dealers, while there was concrete evidence to prove that Ooy was killed and someone placed methamphetamines on her body, said the source.

According to the source, the committee wants the government to compensate relatives of the four victims soon to assure relatives of other victims that the panel is able to bring them justice. The panel is still open to receiving more complaints from relatives.

Set up by the government in August, the independent committee - chaired by former Attorney-General Khanit na Nakhon - is authorised to prosecute anyone found to be involved in the killings and to perform a fact-finding role and work out compensation for relatives of the victims.

However, three months after being initiated, the panel has received fewer than 20 complaints from relatives of victims, while there are more than 2,500 cases of drug-related killings during the time of the Thaksin administration.

Charnchao Chaiyunikij, Deputy Permanent Secretary of the Justice Ministry and Secretary of the Committee, said the panel during the past three months had looked into all cases of drug-related killings during the campaign initiated by Thaksin in 2003, in order to identify cases that could be truly related to trafficking.

The committee, he said, would then analyse whether the policy had reduced trafficking in the country.

- The Nation

[hammered]

It is going to be very hard to take this anywhere until after the election. If a certain party wins expect all charges to come to nothing or be dropped. If other parties win there may be a pursuit of a few cases like these mentioned ones but maybe not much more.

[Plus]

YH, I don't see the current panel as being focused only on Thaksin, where did you get this idea? From Colpyat? Repeating it over and over doesn't make it so. Right from the start they talked about investigating the whole structure and chain of command.

Kraisak needs to come up with some goods even if Democrats form the next government. Working on complaints alone is not enough, it makes the drug war into a serious of unrelated incidents.

[younghusband]

YH, I don't see the current panel as being focused only on Thaksin, where did you get this idea? From Colpyat? Repeating it over and over doesn't make it so. Right from the start they talked about investigating the whole structure and chain of command.

Kraisak needs to come up with some goods even if Democrats form the next government. Working on complaints alone is not enough, it makes the drug war into a serious of unrelated incidents.

The point I'm making is that the political backing, such as it was of which more later, of the panel's work was mainly motivated by the prospect of nailing Thaksin.Even though this was in the context of trying to justify the coup to a sceptical world audience, the effort was always a little half hearted as any real scrutiny of the episode would open a veritable Pandora's Box where collateral damage could not be contained.It's a bit delicate to articulate in detail but let's just say that the Thai establishment has no interest in pursuing this matter.At present date I have no criticism of the work of the panel itself, and welcome your point that the inquiry will be comprehensive in nature, including one hopes at least a commentary on who provided covert or overt support even if not actually involved themselves.

[Plus]

Lets see what Kraisak and Co will produce. Acting on their findings will require either strong political will or strong civil society and tryly indenendent court system. Surayud knew perfectly well that this hot potato will never touch his hands and so had nothing to lose. In the best case scenario if Democrats come to power they'll let the panel work through justuce system on their own and very likely nothing much will come out of it.

Yet it's not an excuse to stop trying.

Drug war is a rather lame argument to justify the coup before Thai public. You'd get a better response if you START another one.

[marshbags]

Just to confirm that the PPP will re instate the murderous drug scheme that Thaksin initiated.

God forbid they / the party get elected to govern the country, and not only because of the war on drugs re start either !!!!

Quote

Noppadon Pattama, the party deputy secretary-general, told the crowd the drug suppression scheme, initiated by Thai Rak Thai, would also be re-implemented should the party win the election.

Unquote

Taken from todays B.Post and possibly posted in another context elsewhere.

Ref. url:-

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=123659

marshbags

Edited November 17, 2007 by marshbags