Becoming Fluent In Thai

[Grover]

You can spend hundreds of hours trying to master 'tones' for a few words - which is time you could have been learning dozens of new words and phrases.

I basically agree with reasoning in this statement.

However, it is probable that even after spending hundreds, thousands of hours, or even a half a lifetime practicing tones, it is quite unlikely you will ever master them to the point of being indistinguishable to a native speaker. Most foriegn speakers can not shake off their accent; only the young and very talented have a chance. So yes, there comes a point, according to ones natural talent and aptitude, where time is better spent on other things, as you suggest.

In the beginning, the individual needs to make some sort of judgement, come to some sort of balance regarding time spent on pronunciation, vocab and basic phrases, tying these all together with the end goal of fluency.

[baennaenae]

How long would it take someone to become fluent in reading/writing/speaking thai?

Whats the best way to go about this?

I have the time and dedication to do whatever it takes to get to this level. Seems like I would need to take daily lessons and combine that with some at home study materials.

Can anyone offer some insight on how they got to be fluent in thai language.

Put it this way, if I spoke Thai, read Thai, listened to Thai, and wrote in Thai in Australia, would I be able to communicate in English and I tell you what... it was so difficult and I cried a lot. It takes time and efforts just to think about it. If I could do it YOU COULD DO IT , TOO. I believe if you think... You NEED to know the language to survive in this country then you can do it BUT if you say "... can't be bother because a lot of people in this country know English so I will use English " or " I can talk to my Thai wife, eventhough, she speaks broken English " It's not fair for her that she doesn't learn English from you (in general) unless you correct her and not fair for you when you don't learn Thai from her.

I would have loved to teach my husband Thai ( His Thai was not bad when we were in Thailand but he kinda forgets because he doesn't speak it in Australia

and Don't forget, not many Thai people know English in Thailand in general - You've got to go to a certain place to use your English.

IT TOOK ME SEVERAL YEARS TO BE ABLE TO WRITE A PARAGRAPH

[Kilgore Trout]

Ive been living here in Thailand for 2 year.

Ive got several books, some audio cd's, and some software that I used off and on during my stay here.

I have a 'decent' vocab from being here for a while and I can get around but Id like to take my speaking to the next level. I want to dedicate as much time as needed to speak "perfect"

I agree with you on the childrens books. However I would make sure that they are the schools books that grade 1 kids use, not the "muu sarm duwa" (3 little pigs) style. The ones I used were "rian nungsu pasa Thai" and they are the books that children use when they start grade 1.

I am not sure how far up they go though. I stopped at grade 5 book 1. There are 2 books for each grade (1 per term) These books were great for me. They have stories to read and I really found them useful. There is no English in them so it stops you relating everything to English as per the books with the English translation. You just learn it Thai more than not.

As per the suggestion of not learning sounds. I personally would learn them and think that it is really important to start from day 1. You cant just learn them later because we are creatures of habit and trying to change the way we say things after we have been saying them incorrect for a while is very hard to do.

If time is not the issue, then maybe you could allow time each day just to practice the correct tones of the words you just learnt. I wish I had of done this when I started learning. Even now I still say some words incorrectly as a result of not focusing on sounds when I started.

good luck!

In The Rai!

Fully agreed.

Too many people skip this and as a result are stuck with strong accents with several aspects that make them more difficult to understand by a Thai.

In the same way as Thais need to practice extensively and actively before being able to pronounce 'rice', 'write', 'rye', 'light' so they sound distinctly different from each other, and not all like 'lie', farang need to devote considerable time and effort to learning the tones, as well as the proper pronunciation of other unfamiliar phonemes (sounds which carry meaning).

When you start out with one or more non-tonal languages, your brain is not wired to think that the tone of a word has any bearing on its meaning. Even when you intellectually have understood the concept of tones, your brain patterns prevent you from registering tone information effectively.

To wire the brain to understand and produce correct phonemic tones, you need to practice a lot, and realize that your brain is opposed to acquire the knowledge and information you are looking for.

I still find I often need to ask the tones of new words I learn through conversation, because I know I cannot rely 100% on my ears to tell me the correct tone of a word, except when a it is spoken slowly and in isolation.

There is a big difference in Thai talking and writing. You will notice automatically while doing this. Forget about grammar, you will learn it "on the go".... Ever wondered how young children learn to talk, with correct grammar, even before they visit any school!?

Children's brains are not like adult brains. While it is true that it is possible to learn grammar through trial and error even for an adult, many adults benefit from structured, formal learning. This is because they have had greater exposure to systematic thinking and categorisation.

Essentially I believe it is a matter of knowing yourself and which style suits you best. If you think school was efficient at teaching you things, go with the formal approach. Otherwise, go the natural way.

Apart from the actual learning, an organised learning procedure with set lesson times can help keep motivation up. It is easier to procrastinate and lose interest if you yourself is the only carrot/stick.

I think for some people its just a lost cause, they will never be able to "re-wire" their brains in order to speak Thai, which is what needs to be done. Think about how Thai people who speak very little English sound, most foreigner's Thai is well worse. You can't teach an old dog new tricks; buy a clue guys, if you can't get it in 2-3 years give it up!

[In the Rai!]

I think for some people its just a lost cause, they will never be able to "re-wire" their brains in order to speak Thai, which is what needs to be done. Think about how Thai people who speak very little English sound, most foreigner's Thai is well worse. You can't teach an old dog new tricks; buy a clue guys, if you can't get it in 2-3 years give it up!

You are correct, it is very hard to do, but I think it comes down to how much you want it. If you really want to speak great Thai then you need immerse yourself in the language. I mean cut English out as much as possible. I am very guilty of coming home from work and turning on English TV. (I know it would help if the thai soapies were any good) but by watching English tv you are allowing your brain to switch back to English again. For anyone who is serious about learning Thai then I think you should try it for just a week and see what you think. No English for 1 week.

It will make a huge difference.

[dseawarrior]

OK OK OK, nee gaw paw chai mai krab?

OK OK OK, this is enough yes/ no?

Just to summarize a few important points from this long and fascinating thread:

1) Yep, you gotta want it bad, babe! Otherwise why bother? Mai dong ben kee-kee-yet na!!! (Don't be lazy!!! or you will get what you deserve -- nothing! ;-)

2a) Immersion, immersion, immersion!!! And that means a lot of hanging out, eating somtam with friends, maybe getting ripped off a bit due to your stupidiy or generosity at first (but, you will learn... ;-) Tuition is not cheap, na... 555!!!

2b) Watch a LOT of Thai TV -- yes all of it -- bad, good and indifferent! I gained a lot of fluency by just leaving the TV on (only Thai broadcast channels -- no cable -- shudder the thought!!!) for hours after I came home from work every night... At first, I had awful headaches but slowly and surely after a few months, I "got it" and the headaches start to go away and you are actually comprehending !!! (and sometimes talking back at the TV!) Wow! Keep going, keep listening and watching that Thai TV! 555!!!

3) Get a Thai GF/ mate/ friend, or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5..., preferably in sequential order instead of simultaneously -- if you value your life!!! The idea is that your friends and playmates will teach you a LOT of Thai -- especially if you ask them nicely and refuse to speak English as much as possible... Create variety for yourself... Every person has their own "micro-dialect" of sorts, so you can learn a LOT about their life and family and local culture that will help you to overcome your "lack" of a Thai childhood...

4) Use Thai with everyone you meet... At first it will be awkward, but you will get it. Embrace your mistakes and learn from them. Learn to laugh at yourself and you will make more friends, too!

5) As to tones -- studied both formally and informally -- embrace the music of the Thai language! Get tapes and listen and sing along with Thai music! Sometimes it is much easier than the listen and repeat of language tapes (...although those are very worthwhile, too!)

6) Listen and repeat CONSTANTLY -- be like a parrot -- don't think too much -- mai dong kid mag na... remember you are a beginner at this game...

7) Keep (and improve on) your sense of humor! It will give you great mileage in learning Thai language people and culture!

8) Oh yeah, put in many hundreds and thousands of hours of fun and study into Thai language books, tapes, etc., etc.!!! (Ain't nothing better than book learnin' is there? ;-)

9) A rather small number of people are "language impaired" or "musically impaired" and sometimes both! If you can read this e-mail, I doubt that you have extremely severe impairments (or you have mainly overcome those impairments)... Try all of the above steps and if after a couple of years of trying you are not making progress, write me an e-mail and we can talk about personalized strategies for language learning -- taking your personal learning idiosyncrasies into account!

Good luck on your language journeys!

Chok dee mag mag na krab!

dseawarrior

D~<3

[In the Rai!]

9) A rather small number of people are "language impaired" or "musically impaired" and sometimes both! If you can read this e-mail, I doubt that you have extremely severe impairments (or you have mainly overcome those impairments)... Try all of the above steps and if after a couple of years of trying you are not making progress, write me an e-mail and we can talk about personalized strategies for language learning -- taking your personal learning idiosyncrasies into account!

[Kilgore Trout]

Don't worry about tones.... you learn them as you go.... Some wrong pronouncations bring you into very funny situations which are a great help into never get it wrong again.... Very good way to enjoy learning thai.

Not good advise, the tones are everything.

Worry about the tones!

[Kwai Yai]

Fascinating forum. I have lived here for 2 years and speak rudimentary Thai. I use Thai every day in school, the kids laugh when I get the wrong tone but they correct me. I guess I am not musical, I just can't get the tones, they all sound the same to me. Dog, horse, come etc., all the same. I know Thai numbers but I can ask Tow-arai? in the market and I have no idea what the reply is. I live in Tak and maybe they are not speaking Thai - I have no idea. In my local watering hole they only speak Thai and I have no problem in understanding what my bill is (too much, usually), but in the market they might be speaking in Burmese for all I know. My biggest problem in trying to learn Thai is motivation, but in the sense that normal Thai conversation, TV, community radio is so utterly banal that I can't see the point. I notice that several posts mention educated Thais......where do you meet one? I know that they exist but they are as scarce as hen's teeth. I taught university students in Chiang Mai, they knew nothing. A graduate in business studies & marketing had never heard of a James Bond movie. He liked Chicken Little, playing cards and hip-hop. I tried to help him with his CV but gave up. A Thai BA is equivilant to leaving high school in UK. I read a poem in the Bangkok Post today written in honour of His Majesty the King. The opening line was about being born in the "beautiful country". He was born in Boston, Mass. USA - that's no secret. Thai's don't know this? In my school kids are brainwashed from kindergarten onwards, I showed my students a world map (with Thai script) they were surprised that Thailand was not the largest country. "Oh, Thailand lek, lek maak maak". Geography is not taught in Thai schools, nor is history. Ask a Thai what side Thailand was on in WW 2, they ask what was WW 2? I get a great buzz from my kids, 450 students in P5 & P6 but mostly I am p...ssing into the wind.

[In the Rai!]

Fascinating forum. I have lived here for 2 years and speak rudimentary Thai. I use Thai every day in school, the kids laugh when I get the wrong tone but they correct me. I guess I am not musical, I just can't get the tones, they all sound the same to me. Dog, horse, come etc., all the same. I know Thai numbers but I can ask Tow-arai? in the market and I have no idea what the reply is. I live in Tak and maybe they are not speaking Thai - I have no idea. In my local watering hole they only speak Thai and I have no problem in understanding what my bill is (too much, usually), but in the market they might be speaking in Burmese for all I know. My biggest problem in trying to learn Thai is motivation, but in the sense that normal Thai conversation, TV, community radio is so utterly banal that I can't see the point. I notice that several posts mention educated Thais......where do you meet one? I know that they exist but they are as scarce as hen's teeth. I taught university students in Chiang Mai, they knew nothing. A graduate in business studies & marketing had never heard of a James Bond movie. He liked Chicken Little, playing cards and hip-hop. I tried to help him with his CV but gave up. A Thai BA is equivilant to leaving high school in UK. I read a poem in the Bangkok Post today written in honour of His Majesty the King. The opening line was about being born in the "beautiful country". He was born in Boston, Mass. USA - that's no secret. Thai's don't know this? In my school kids are brainwashed from kindergarten onwards, I showed my students a world map (with Thai script) they were surprised that Thailand was not the largest country. "Oh, Thailand lek, lek maak maak". Geography is not taught in Thai schools, nor is history. Ask a Thai what side Thailand was on in WW 2, they ask what was WW 2? I get a great buzz from my kids, 450 students in P5 & P6 but mostly I am p...ssing into the wind.

I dont think we can blame the students or the Thais in general as much as the Thai education system.

ITR