Israel admits mistakenly killing Palestinian bystander said to be ’15-year-old boy’

[Morch]

And yet you still cannot provide examples of countries allowing such international investigations of their armed forces, or routinely submitting their soldiers to the jurisdiction of international courts.

Gideon Levy puts some of your rants to shame, hardly objective under the best of circumstances.

so basically you say anyone saying things against israeli murders and oppression is not objective, aye morch?

funny. so you just accept things when said by pro zionists? what a sorry state you are in bro.

try to break your chains and remove your blinders!

and topic is about a murder done by idf. you forget about other countries. we criticize them too when a topic opened.

I referenced Gideon Levy, not "anyone". Reading comprehension 101.

Considering on previous topics you claimed anti-IDF, anti-occupation opinions were suppressed in Israel, kinda amusing seeing you comment on Levy.

The topic is about a death of Palestinian teen. That you call it murder, does not make it so.

The mention of other countries was in response to posts asserting that Israel needs to submit its armed forces to international jurisdiction. Posters seem to have trouble bringing examples that this is an accepted norm, nor bring up clear reasoning why Israel ought to be singled out.

[dexterm]

There certainly needs to be a more independent, transparent system of inquiry into these frequent extra judicial murders by the IDF.

Instead Israel initially put the fox in charge of the hen-house by allowing Col. Yisrael Shomer to conduct the OP preliminary inquiry. He himself was guilty of a similar murder a year ago when he fired 3 shots at a Palestinian youth from behind as he was fleeing and again offering no danger or threat. No trial, no punishment, no demotion even. So naturally his soldiers follow his example.

Israeli journalist Gideon Levy is scathing and sarcastic of the IDF in today's Haaretz and calls into question the IDF Rules of Engagement which have been trampled upon in this instance .... well worth a read.

"By mistake the soldiers stood on the bridge, by accident they sprayed the car driving on the road below them with heavy fire, without any idea who was in it. Unintentionally they killed the youth, by accident wounded four of his friends seriously. By mistake the soldiers thought the passengers of the car had thrown rocks and poured oil on the road, mistakenly they thought this allowed them to shoot to their hearts' desire http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.726563

And yet you still cannot provide examples of countries allowing such international investigations of their armed forces, or routinely submitting their soldiers to the jurisdiction of international courts.

Gideon Levy puts some of your rants to shame, hardly objective under the best of circumstances.

so basically you say anyone saying things against israeli murders and oppression is not objective, aye morch?

funny. so you just accept things when said by pro zionists? what a sorry state you are in bro.

try to break your chains and remove your blinders!

and topic is about a murder done by idf. you forget about other countries. we criticize them too when a topic opened.

Take it with a pinch of salt, Galactus. It's just the Israeli apologists' standard op: besmirch the messenger , when deny deflect dispute the small details don't work.

But whatever one does, never discuss the immorality and injustice that underlies the OP and the racist brutal occupation of 4.5 million Palestinians, that is the root cause of the whole OP tragedy.

[Morch]

Take it with a pinch of salt, Galactus. It's just the Israeli apologists' standard op: besmirch the messenger , when deny deflect dispute the small details don't work.

But whatever one does, never discuss the immorality and injustice that underlies the OP and the racist brutal occupation of 4.5 million Palestinians, that is the root cause of the whole OP tragedy.

Ah yes, the "besmirching" complaint while "besmirching" others.

Gideon Levy's rants do put yours to shame, but on the other hand, he does not even claim to be objective.

The one bringing up a myriad of details, well incorporated in repeated rants is yourself, Whenever the discrepancies between these rants and reality are exposed, out comes the nonsense about "small details", "deflections, and "besmirching". The simple truth is that rants are no substitution to facts.

There is very little room for "discussion" of ethics with people who hold religiously believe that they have all the answers, while not being able to support their views with anything concrete.

[dexterm]

I personally find it obscene that a 15 year old boy with all his life ahead of him on his way back from a swim with friends and family can be killed by trigger happy soldiers when his car was wantonly sprayed with bullets. And probably not a damn thing in the world will happen to the perpetrators.

And it may all be swept under the carpet with the excuses of "mistake" and the technicalities of rules of engagement with the get out of any jail card for any IDF that "I thought I may be in danger." Case dismissed.

I notice that Israeli Cabinet Minister Naftali Bennett has now warmed to this new excuse "mistake" in that other recent notorious extra judicial murder where an IDF killed an incapacitated Palestinian. "Mistake" is much more versatile than "I thought he was wearing a suicide vest."

The danger that soldiers now and in future can literally get away with murder on a routine basis would severely bother me if it were my country. There's something rotten in the state of Israel.

That's why I don't understand Israeli apologists who try to defend the indefensible.

[Morch]

I personally find it obscene that a 15 year old boy with all his life ahead of him on his way back from a swim with friends and family can be killed by trigger happy soldiers when his car was wantonly sprayed with bullets. And probably not a damn thing in the world will happen to the perpetrators.

And it may all be swept under the carpet with the excuses of "mistake" and the technicalities of rules of engagement with the get out of any jail card for any IDF that "I thought I may be in danger." Case dismissed.

I notice that Israeli Cabinet Minister Naftali Bennett has now warmed to this new excuse "mistake" in that other recent notorious extra judicial murder where an IDF killed an incapacitated Palestinian. "Mistake" is much more versatile than "I thought he was wearing a suicide vest."

The danger that soldiers now and in future can literally get away with murder on a routine basis would severely bother me if it were my country. There's something rotten in the state of Israel.

That's why I don't understand Israeli apologists who try to defend the indefensible.

But no issues when violence is directed the other way. No calls for humanity, international tribunals, or the usual inflammatory rhetoric.

Somehow, never a worry expressed over the way Palestinian violence effects and shapes Palestinian society.

[dexterm]

I personally find it obscene that a 15 year old boy with all his life ahead of him on his way back from a swim with friends and family can be killed by trigger happy soldiers when his car was wantonly sprayed with bullets. And probably not a damn thing in the world will happen to the perpetrators.

And it may all be swept under the carpet with the excuses of "mistake" and the technicalities of rules of engagement with the get out of any jail card for any IDF that "I thought I may be in danger." Case dismissed.

I notice that Israeli Cabinet Minister Naftali Bennett has now warmed to this new excuse "mistake" in that other recent notorious extra judicial murder where an IDF killed an incapacitated Palestinian. "Mistake" is much more versatile than "I thought he was wearing a suicide vest."

The danger that soldiers now and in future can literally get away with murder on a routine basis would severely bother me if it were my country. There's something rotten in the state of Israel.

That's why I don't understand Israeli apologists who try to defend the indefensible.

But no issues when violence is directed the other way. No calls for humanity, international tribunals, or the usual inflammatory rhetoric.

Somehow, never a worry expressed over the way Palestinian violence effects and shapes Palestinian society.

No issue whatsoever if the targets are members of the IDF army of Occupation or illegal Zionist colonists who have made the choice to dispossess Palestinians and all the violence that those confiscations entailed and live on stolen Palestinian land.

Other than sharing a humanitarian sympathy for anyone who dies unnaturally and leaves behind loved ones.

But I blame Israel's brutal illegal Occupation for inflaming and creating these incidents.

[Morch]

I personally find it obscene that a 15 year old boy with all his life ahead of him on his way back from a swim with friends and family can be killed by trigger happy soldiers when his car was wantonly sprayed with bullets. And probably not a damn thing in the world will happen to the perpetrators.

And it may all be swept under the carpet with the excuses of "mistake" and the technicalities of rules of engagement with the get out of any jail card for any IDF that "I thought I may be in danger." Case dismissed.

I notice that Israeli Cabinet Minister Naftali Bennett has now warmed to this new excuse "mistake" in that other recent notorious extra judicial murder where an IDF killed an incapacitated Palestinian. "Mistake" is much more versatile than "I thought he was wearing a suicide vest."

The danger that soldiers now and in future can literally get away with murder on a routine basis would severely bother me if it were my country. There's something rotten in the state of Israel.

That's why I don't understand Israeli apologists who try to defend the indefensible.

But no issues when violence is directed the other way. No calls for humanity, international tribunals, or the usual inflammatory rhetoric.

Somehow, never a worry expressed over the way Palestinian violence effects and shapes Palestinian society.

No issue whatsoever if the targets are members of the IDF army of Occupation or illegal Zionist colonists who have made the choice to dispossess Palestinians and all the violence that those confiscations entailed and live on stolen Palestinian land.

Other than sharing a humanitarian sympathy for anyone who dies unnaturally and leaves behind loved ones.

But I blame Israel's brutal illegal Occupation for inflaming and creating these incidents.

On more than one occasion you justified Palestinian attacks within Israel, Palestinian attacks on women, children and elderly.

Blaming Israel for creating incidents, rejecting blame when Palestinian casualties are blamed on decisions by their leadership.

Same old double standards and moral acrobatics.

[dexterm]

I personally find it obscene that a 15 year old boy with all his life ahead of him on his way back from a swim with friends and family can be killed by trigger happy soldiers when his car was wantonly sprayed with bullets. And probably not a damn thing in the world will happen to the perpetrators.

And it may all be swept under the carpet with the excuses of "mistake" and the technicalities of rules of engagement with the get out of any jail card for any IDF that "I thought I may be in danger." Case dismissed.

I notice that Israeli Cabinet Minister Naftali Bennett has now warmed to this new excuse "mistake" in that other recent notorious extra judicial murder where an IDF killed an incapacitated Palestinian. "Mistake" is much more versatile than "I thought he was wearing a suicide vest."

The danger that soldiers now and in future can literally get away with murder on a routine basis would severely bother me if it were my country. There's something rotten in the state of Israel.

That's why I don't understand Israeli apologists who try to defend the indefensible.

But no issues when violence is directed the other way. No calls for humanity, international tribunals, or the usual inflammatory rhetoric.

Somehow, never a worry expressed over the way Palestinian violence effects and shapes Palestinian society.

No issue whatsoever if the targets are members of the IDF army of Occupation or illegal Zionist colonists who have made the choice to dispossess Palestinians and all the violence that those confiscations entailed and live on stolen Palestinian land.

Other than sharing a humanitarian sympathy for anyone who dies unnaturally and leaves behind loved ones.

But I blame Israel's brutal illegal Occupation for inflaming and creating these incidents.

On more than one occasion you justified Palestinian attacks within Israel, Palestinian attacks on women, children and elderly.

Blaming Israel for creating incidents, rejecting blame when Palestinian casualties are blamed on decisions by their leadership.

Same old double standards and moral acrobatics.

>>On more than one occasion you justified Palestinian attacks within Israel.

That's a blatant lie. I have never condoned acts of violence within the 67 lines. Put up or shut up.

[Galactus]

I personally find it obscene that a 15 year old boy with all his life ahead of him on his way back from a swim with friends and family can be killed by trigger happy soldiers when his car was wantonly sprayed with bullets. And probably not a damn thing in the world will happen to the perpetrators.

And it may all be swept under the carpet with the excuses of "mistake" and the technicalities of rules of engagement with the get out of any jail card for any IDF that "I thought I may be in danger." Case dismissed.

I notice that Israeli Cabinet Minister Naftali Bennett has now warmed to this new excuse "mistake" in that other recent notorious extra judicial murder where an IDF killed an incapacitated Palestinian. "Mistake" is much more versatile than "I thought he was wearing a suicide vest."

The danger that soldiers now and in future can literally get away with murder on a routine basis would severely bother me if it were my country. There's something rotten in the state of Israel.

That's why I don't understand Israeli apologists who try to defend the indefensible.

But no issues when violence is directed the other way. No calls for humanity, international tribunals, or the usual inflammatory rhetoric.

Somehow, never a worry expressed over the way Palestinian violence effects and shapes Palestinian society.

well, of course i support oppressed people whose land is stolen, waters cut, sons and daughters murdered and more. as any human being with mind and heart! not bc i love muslim or jewish or a specific race or ethnicity.

palestinians are resisting rogue state israel and its no morale rogue army with knives and stones where israel sends phosphorus bombs and spray bullets from us guns.

it is israel resulted on this bloodshed by occupying other's land and doing an ethnic cleansing.

of course i feel sad when innocent israelis die too but it is bc of the faulth of their fascist government. they can very well wake up and say 'stop' for this bloody vicious circle and choose a proper humanitarian government.

as i see in an article in Hareetz: 'Who will protect Israel from itself?' answer is: israeli people. if not, sanctions and more bloodshed unfortunately.

[up-country_sinclair]

That's a blatant lie. I have never condoned acts of violence within the 67 lines. Put up or shut up.

[Morch]

But no issues when violence is directed the other way. No calls for humanity, international tribunals, or the usual inflammatory rhetoric.

Somehow, never a worry expressed over the way Palestinian violence effects and shapes Palestinian society.

No issue whatsoever if the targets are members of the IDF army of Occupation or illegal Zionist colonists who have made the choice to dispossess Palestinians and all the violence that those confiscations entailed and live on stolen Palestinian land.

Other than sharing a humanitarian sympathy for anyone who dies unnaturally and leaves behind loved ones.

But I blame Israel's brutal illegal Occupation for inflaming and creating these incidents.

On more than one occasion you justified Palestinian attacks within Israel, Palestinian attacks on women, children and elderly.

Blaming Israel for creating incidents, rejecting blame when Palestinian casualties are blamed on decisions by their leadership.

Same old double standards and moral acrobatics.

>>On more than one occasion you justified Palestinian attacks within Israel.

That's a blatant lie. I have never condoned acts of violence within the 67 lines. Put up or shut up.

Big words again. Guess we'll have another re-hash of this scene. Oh well...

The claim that acts of violence within the 67 lines are not condoned fails to mentions them caveats you associate with this statement. For example, "not assisting the IDF or the occupation" (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/901460-us-tourist-killed-13-injured-as-palestinian-terrorists-go-on-bloody-rampage-in-israel/page-3#entry10516145), this allows for quite a broad range of exceptions. Presumably, anyone who served or serves (including reserve duty) with the IDF, anyone holding a position with organizations (public or otherwise) having anything to do with the West Bank or the IDF, etc...

On other occasions, these caveats were even applied only with regard to Jews serving in the IDF (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/897908-israel-cooperation-puts-palestinian-forces-in-a-tough-spot/?p=10464330), somehow skirting around the issue of minorities in such position.

Unless I missed something, can't recall Palestinian mortar and rocket attacks being considered illegitimate. For those struggling with geography, these attacks originate from the Gaza Strip, but are directed at Israel (that is, within the 1967 lines). That both the UN and the PA see it otherwise (as possible war crime, to be exact), makes no difference for some.

Sometimes, the 1967 lines "safe zone" is breached with references to the 1948 lines (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/871036-official-2-palestinians-killed-in-clash-with-israeli-troops/?p=10085390).

But perhaps it comes down to overreaching assertions such as that "Palestinians are not stabbing innocent people". Indeed, it seems that in your eyes almost any Israeli can easily be stripped of innocents, while Palestinians are by default innocent of any wrongdoing.

Parents are to be blamed for the fate of their children, provided they Israeli illegal settlers (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/897908-israel-cooperation-puts-palestinian-forces-in-a-tough-spot/page-3#entry10477726), no such responsibility expected of Palestinian parents. The death of a US Palestinian teen participating in a violent clash with IDF soldiers is condemned, the death of a US Jewish teen handing food to IDF soldiers is condoned. Same goes for the national level, as the often proclaimed "I blame the Israeli government" is never echoed by requiring accountability from Palestinian leadership. Any post which attempts to place the responsibility on Palestinians, is rejected.

On the rare occasions when nothing can defend the indefensible, mild expressions of sympathy to victims are expressed. But not without the inevitable cop out justification, casting doubt on circumstances, motives, and misplacing blame. This is a crude PR maneuver aimed at distancing an unsavory truth from the usual narrative (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/872161-us-teen-among-five-dead-in-west-bank-and-tel-aviv-attacks/?p=10102982- last paragraph).

Most times, you simply avoid commenting on topics which deal with clear instances of Palestinian transgressions, or limit your responses to side issues and general accusations against Israel (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/911169-israel-police-say-jerusalem-bus-blast-was-a-bomb/, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/923596-two-suspects-are-detained-following-shooting-at-tel-aviv-shopping-centre/).

What we have here are one-sided blanket justifications, not much by way of actual condemnation. A whole lot of moral acrobatics and double standards. All this while claiming to be a great humanist. Now go on with the usual faux slurs -"besmirching", "nitpicking", "obfuscating", "deflecting", "disingenuous", "dishonest", "apologist". Last but not least...."blatant lie".

[Galactus]

No issue whatsoever if the targets are members of the IDF army of Occupation or illegal Zionist colonists who have made the choice to dispossess Palestinians and all the violence that those confiscations entailed and live on stolen Palestinian land.

Other than sharing a humanitarian sympathy for anyone who dies unnaturally and leaves behind loved ones.

But I blame Israel's brutal illegal Occupation for inflaming and creating these incidents.

On more than one occasion you justified Palestinian attacks within Israel, Palestinian attacks on women, children and elderly.

Blaming Israel for creating incidents, rejecting blame when Palestinian casualties are blamed on decisions by their leadership.

Same old double standards and moral acrobatics.

>>On more than one occasion you justified Palestinian attacks within Israel.

That's a blatant lie. I have never condoned acts of violence within the 67 lines. Put up or shut up.

Big words again. Guess we'll have another re-hash of this scene. Oh well...

The claim that acts of violence within the 67 lines are not condoned fails to mentions them caveats you associate with this statement. For example, "not assisting the IDF or the occupation" (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/901460-us-tourist-killed-13-injured-as-palestinian-terrorists-go-on-bloody-rampage-in-israel/page-3#entry10516145), this allows for quite a broad range of exceptions. Presumably, anyone who served or serves (including reserve duty) with the IDF, anyone holding a position with organizations (public or otherwise) having anything to do with the West Bank or the IDF, etc...

On other occasions, these caveats were even applied only with regard to Jews serving in the IDF (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/897908-israel-cooperation-puts-palestinian-forces-in-a-tough-spot/?p=10464330), somehow skirting around the issue of minorities in such position.

Unless I missed something, can't recall Palestinian mortar and rocket attacks being considered illegitimate. For those struggling with geography, these attacks originate from the Gaza Strip, but are directed at Israel (that is, within the 1967 lines). That both the UN and the PA see it otherwise (as possible war crime, to be exact), makes no difference for some.

Sometimes, the 1967 lines "safe zone" is breached with references to the 1948 lines (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/871036-official-2-palestinians-killed-in-clash-with-israeli-troops/?p=10085390).

But perhaps it comes down to overreaching assertions such as that "Palestinians are not stabbing innocent people". Indeed, it seems that in your eyes almost any Israeli can easily be stripped of innocents, while Palestinians are by default innocent of any wrongdoing.

Parents are to be blamed for the fate of their children, provided they Israeli illegal settlers (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/897908-israel-cooperation-puts-palestinian-forces-in-a-tough-spot/page-3#entry10477726), no such responsibility expected of Palestinian parents. The death of a US Palestinian teen participating in a violent clash with IDF soldiers is condemned, the death of a US Jewish teen handing food to IDF soldiers is condoned. Same goes for the national level, as the often proclaimed "I blame the Israeli government" is never echoed by requiring accountability from Palestinian leadership. Any post which attempts to place the responsibility on Palestinians, is rejected.

On the rare occasions when nothing can defend the indefensible, mild expressions of sympathy to victims are expressed. But not without the inevitable cop out justification, casting doubt on circumstances, motives, and misplacing blame. This is a crude PR maneuver aimed at distancing an unsavory truth from the usual narrative (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/872161-us-teen-among-five-dead-in-west-bank-and-tel-aviv-attacks/?p=10102982- last paragraph).

Most times, you simply avoid commenting on topics which deal with clear instances of Palestinian transgressions, or limit your responses to side issues and general accusations against Israel (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/911169-israel-police-say-jerusalem-bus-blast-was-a-bomb/, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/923596-two-suspects-are-detained-following-shooting-at-tel-aviv-shopping-centre/).

What we have here are one-sided blanket justifications, not much by way of actual condemnation. A whole lot of moral acrobatics and double standards. All this while claiming to be a great humanist. Now go on with the usual faux slurs -"besmirching", "nitpicking", "obfuscating", "deflecting", "disingenuous", "dishonest", "apologist". Last but not least...."blatant lie".

to be honest, i dont trust both sides.

still, it is israel occupying lands belong to palestinians and still encouraging and supporting jewish settlers to steal more land. simple facts morch.

and clearly IDF turned into a murdering squad with no morale and ethics. and how can be sure those guns of fascist IDF soldier will not be turning to israeli citizens later on? fascists all over the history, harmed their own people more than others.

so whatever you say, palestinians are just resisting and israelis are murdering. bc it is palestinians pushed to poverty with no future even no water!

at least palestinians are attacking with knives and stones and not bombs or us guns. which is i believe a positive than before and i am sure you can accept that. and this gives palestinians a good pr.

no double standards. if it is muslim stealing land and oppressing israelis, most of us here supporting israel.

[Morch]

But no issues when violence is directed the other way. No calls for humanity, international tribunals, or the usual inflammatory rhetoric.

Somehow, never a worry expressed over the way Palestinian violence effects and shapes Palestinian society.

well, of course i support oppressed people whose land is stolen, waters cut, sons and daughters murdered and more. as any human being with mind and heart! not bc i love muslim or jewish or a specific race or ethnicity.

palestinians are resisting rogue state israel and its no morale rogue army with knives and stones where israel sends phosphorus bombs and spray bullets from us guns.

it is israel resulted on this bloodshed by occupying other's land and doing an ethnic cleansing.

of course i feel sad when innocent israelis die too but it is bc of the faulth of their fascist government. they can very well wake up and say 'stop' for this bloody vicious circle and choose a proper humanitarian government.

as i see in an article in Hareetz: 'Who will protect Israel from itself?' answer is: israeli people. if not, sanctions and more bloodshed unfortunately.

Resistance to an occupation does not automatically entail violence. Even if violence is the chosen path, it does not entail that all is permitted.

Blaming the leadership of one side, while absolving the leadership of the other, is just a blanket justification devoid of reason. Upholding this position while proclaiming high ideals is preposterous.

The conflict is not one sided, and both sides involved tango.

[Morch]

An apt depiction of your own contribution to the topic.

[Morch]

Big words again. Guess we'll have another re-hash of this scene. Oh well...

The claim that acts of violence within the 67 lines are not condoned fails to mentions them caveats you associate with this statement. For example, "not assisting the IDF or the occupation" (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/901460-us-tourist-killed-13-injured-as-palestinian-terrorists-go-on-bloody-rampage-in-israel/page-3#entry10516145), this allows for quite a broad range of exceptions. Presumably, anyone who served or serves (including reserve duty) with the IDF, anyone holding a position with organizations (public or otherwise) having anything to do with the West Bank or the IDF, etc...

On other occasions, these caveats were even applied only with regard to Jews serving in the IDF (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/897908-israel-cooperation-puts-palestinian-forces-in-a-tough-spot/?p=10464330), somehow skirting around the issue of minorities in such position.

Unless I missed something, can't recall Palestinian mortar and rocket attacks being considered illegitimate. For those struggling with geography, these attacks originate from the Gaza Strip, but are directed at Israel (that is, within the 1967 lines). That both the UN and the PA see it otherwise (as possible war crime, to be exact), makes no difference for some.

Sometimes, the 1967 lines "safe zone" is breached with references to the 1948 lines (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/871036-official-2-palestinians-killed-in-clash-with-israeli-troops/?p=10085390).

But perhaps it comes down to overreaching assertions such as that "Palestinians are not stabbing innocent people". Indeed, it seems that in your eyes almost any Israeli can easily be stripped of innocents, while Palestinians are by default innocent of any wrongdoing.

Parents are to be blamed for the fate of their children, provided they Israeli illegal settlers (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/897908-israel-cooperation-puts-palestinian-forces-in-a-tough-spot/page-3#entry10477726), no such responsibility expected of Palestinian parents. The death of a US Palestinian teen participating in a violent clash with IDF soldiers is condemned, the death of a US Jewish teen handing food to IDF soldiers is condoned. Same goes for the national level, as the often proclaimed "I blame the Israeli government" is never echoed by requiring accountability from Palestinian leadership. Any post which attempts to place the responsibility on Palestinians, is rejected.

On the rare occasions when nothing can defend the indefensible, mild expressions of sympathy to victims are expressed. But not without the inevitable cop out justification, casting doubt on circumstances, motives, and misplacing blame. This is a crude PR maneuver aimed at distancing an unsavory truth from the usual narrative (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/872161-us-teen-among-five-dead-in-west-bank-and-tel-aviv-attacks/?p=10102982- last paragraph).

Most times, you simply avoid commenting on topics which deal with clear instances of Palestinian transgressions, or limit your responses to side issues and general accusations against Israel (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/911169-israel-police-say-jerusalem-bus-blast-was-a-bomb/, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/923596-two-suspects-are-detained-following-shooting-at-tel-aviv-shopping-centre/).

What we have here are one-sided blanket justifications, not much by way of actual condemnation. A whole lot of moral acrobatics and double standards. All this while claiming to be a great humanist. Now go on with the usual faux slurs -"besmirching", "nitpicking", "obfuscating", "deflecting", "disingenuous", "dishonest", "apologist". Last but not least...."blatant lie".

to be honest, i dont trust both sides.

still, it is israel occupying lands belong to palestinians and still encouraging and supporting jewish settlers to steal more land. simple facts morch.

and clearly IDF turned into a murdering squad with no morale and ethics. and how can be sure those guns of fascist IDF soldier will not be turning to israeli citizens later on? fascists all over the history, harmed their own people more than others.

so whatever you say, palestinians are just resisting and israelis are murdering. bc it is palestinians pushed to poverty with no future even no water!

at least palestinians are attacking with knives and stones and not bombs or us guns. which is i believe a positive than before and i am sure you can accept that. and this gives palestinians a good pr.

no double standards. if it is muslim stealing land and oppressing israelis, most of us here supporting israel.

Spare us. "I don't trust both sides" - goes on a heavily biased tirade against one side. As if no one is aware of your posting history.

My quoted post deals with justifications of Palestinian violence within the 1967 lines, and with moral acrobatics and double standards when it comes to all instances of Palestinian violence. Your post merely affirms everything that I posted. Namely, Palestinian are absolved of any wrongdoing, no matter how vile.

There are at least two previous topics linked which include Palestinian bomb and gun attacks, read before posting nonsense.

[Galactus]

But no issues when violence is directed the other way. No calls for humanity, international tribunals, or the usual inflammatory rhetoric.

Somehow, never a worry expressed over the way Palestinian violence effects and shapes Palestinian society.

well, of course i support oppressed people whose land is stolen, waters cut, sons and daughters murdered and more. as any human being with mind and heart! not bc i love muslim or jewish or a specific race or ethnicity.

palestinians are resisting rogue state israel and its no morale rogue army with knives and stones where israel sends phosphorus bombs and spray bullets from us guns.

it is israel resulted on this bloodshed by occupying other's land and doing an ethnic cleansing.

of course i feel sad when innocent israelis die too but it is bc of the faulth of their fascist government. they can very well wake up and say 'stop' for this bloody vicious circle and choose a proper humanitarian government.

as i see in an article in Hareetz: 'Who will protect Israel from itself?' answer is: israeli people. if not, sanctions and more bloodshed unfortunately.

Resistance to an occupation does not automatically entail violence. Even if violence is the chosen path, it does not entail that all is permitted.

Blaming the leadership of one side, while absolving the leadership of the other, is just a blanket justification devoid of reason. Upholding this position while proclaiming high ideals is preposterous.

The conflict is not one sided, and both sides involved tango.

conflict is all about israel stealing land of people and oppressing them to do so against international laws and agreements and while we are speaking now more settlers steal more land forcefully and palestinians resisting to it.

no blanket statements. just simple facts you dont want to accept.

and why expect things from incompetent palestinian leaders when israelis have a chance to change their fascist one?

as israel is the powerful one there, as i always state, responsibility lies with Israel.

[Morch]

But no issues when violence is directed the other way. No calls for humanity, international tribunals, or the usual inflammatory rhetoric.

Somehow, never a worry expressed over the way Palestinian violence effects and shapes Palestinian society.

well, of course i support oppressed people whose land is stolen, waters cut, sons and daughters murdered and more. as any human being with mind and heart! not bc i love muslim or jewish or a specific race or ethnicity.

palestinians are resisting rogue state israel and its no morale rogue army with knives and stones where israel sends phosphorus bombs and spray bullets from us guns.

it is israel resulted on this bloodshed by occupying other's land and doing an ethnic cleansing.

of course i feel sad when innocent israelis die too but it is bc of the faulth of their fascist government. they can very well wake up and say 'stop' for this bloody vicious circle and choose a proper humanitarian government.

as i see in an article in Hareetz: 'Who will protect Israel from itself?' answer is: israeli people. if not, sanctions and more bloodshed unfortunately.

Resistance to an occupation does not automatically entail violence. Even if violence is the chosen path, it does not entail that all is permitted.

Blaming the leadership of one side, while absolving the leadership of the other, is just a blanket justification devoid of reason. Upholding this position while proclaiming high ideals is preposterous.

The conflict is not one sided, and both sides involved tango.

conflict is all about israel stealing land of people and oppressing them to do so against international laws and agreements and while we are speaking now more settlers steal more land forcefully and palestinians resisting to it.

no blanket statements. just simple facts you dont want to accept.

and why expect things from incompetent palestinian leaders when israelis have a chance to change their fascist one?

as israel is the powerful one there, as i always state, responsibility lies with Israel.

A conflict requires at least two sides. One. Two. Not that hard to count.

Asserting that everything the Palestinians do is legitimate is exactly a blanket statement. Look it up.

Resisting an occupying force does no imply freedom from any moral obligations.

Israel should sign a peace agreement with "incompetent Palestinian leaders" without any expectations, then?

Seems that your view of the Palestinians is rather condescending - they cannot be accountable for moral values, they cannot produce a credible leadership, and in general, are a passive lot, not responsible for anything much.

[Galactus]

well, of course i support oppressed people whose land is stolen, waters cut, sons and daughters murdered and more. as any human being with mind and heart! not bc i love muslim or jewish or a specific race or ethnicity.

palestinians are resisting rogue state israel and its no morale rogue army with knives and stones where israel sends phosphorus bombs and spray bullets from us guns.

it is israel resulted on this bloodshed by occupying other's land and doing an ethnic cleansing.

of course i feel sad when innocent israelis die too but it is bc of the faulth of their fascist government. they can very well wake up and say 'stop' for this bloody vicious circle and choose a proper humanitarian government.

as i see in an article in Hareetz: 'Who will protect Israel from itself?' answer is: israeli people. if not, sanctions and more bloodshed unfortunately.

Resistance to an occupation does not automatically entail violence. Even if violence is the chosen path, it does not entail that all is permitted.

Blaming the leadership of one side, while absolving the leadership of the other, is just a blanket justification devoid of reason. Upholding this position while proclaiming high ideals is preposterous.

The conflict is not one sided, and both sides involved tango.

conflict is all about israel stealing land of people and oppressing them to do so against international laws and agreements and while we are speaking now more settlers steal more land forcefully and palestinians resisting to it.

no blanket statements. just simple facts you dont want to accept.

and why expect things from incompetent palestinian leaders when israelis have a chance to change their fascist one?

as israel is the powerful one there, as i always state, responsibility lies with Israel.

A conflict requires at least two sides. One. Two. Not that hard to count.

Asserting that everything the Palestinians do is legitimate is exactly a blanket statement. Look it up.

Resisting an occupying force does no imply freedom from any moral obligations.

Israel should sign a peace agreement with "incompetent Palestinian leaders" without any expectations, then?

Seems that your view of the Palestinians is rather condescending - they cannot be accountable for moral values, they cannot produce a credible leadership, and in general, are a passive lot, not responsible for anything much.

what palestinians want is pretty clear.

they want all those thief settlers leave and their stolen land returned.

if israel can do so, we can see peace. but as long as israel continues to occupy more land everyday, israel is responsible.

as it is israel need to return the stolen land, i believe this conflict is one sided.

[dexterm]

@Morch

Sorry still probs with formatting. All my options bars are greyed out. If anyone could suggest a solution, I'd appreciate it. Tried signing in and out and deleting cookies to no avail.

Dexterm wrote

>>On more than one occasion you justified Palestinian attacks within Israel.

That's a blatant lie. I have never condoned acts of violence within the 67 lines. Put up or shut up.

Morch wrote..

>>Big words again. Guess we'll have another re-hash of this scene. Oh well...

The claim that acts of violence within the 67 lines are not condoned fails to mentions them caveats you associate with this statement. For example, "not assisting the IDF or the occupation" (http://www.thaivisa....3#entry10516145), this allows for quite a broad range of exceptions. Presumably, anyone who served or serves (including reserve duty) with the IDF, anyone holding a position with organizations (public or otherwise) having anything to do with the West Bank or the IDF, etc...

On other occasions, these caveats were even applied only with regard to Jews serving in the IDF (http://www.thaivisa....pot/?p=10464330), somehow skirting around the issue of minorities in such position.

Unless I missed something, can't recall Palestinian mortar and rocket attacks being considered illegitimate. For those struggling with geography, these attacks originate from the Gaza Strip, but are directed at Israel (that is, within the 1967 lines). That both the UN and the PA see it otherwise (as possible war crime, to be exact), makes no difference for some.

Sometimes, the 1967 lines "safe zone" is breached with references to the 1948 lines (http://www.thaivisa....ops/?p=10085390).

But perhaps it comes down to overreaching assertions such as that "Palestinians are not stabbing innocent people". Indeed, it seems that in your eyes almost any Israeli can easily be stripped of innocents, while Palestinians are by default innocent of any wrongdoing.

Parents are to be blamed for the fate of their children, provided they Israeli illegal settlers (http://www.thaivisa....3#entry10477726), no such responsibility expected of Palestinian parents. The death of a US Palestinian teen participating in a violent clash with IDF soldiers is condemned, the death of a US Jewish teen handing food to IDF soldiers is condoned. Same goes for the national level, as the often proclaimed "I blame the Israeli government" is never echoed by requiring accountability from Palestinian leadership. Any post which attempts to place the responsibility on Palestinians, is rejected.

On the rare occasions when nothing can defend the indefensible, mild expressions of sympathy to victims are expressed. But not without the inevitable cop out justification, casting doubt on circumstances, motives, and misplacing blame. This is a crude PR maneuver aimed at distancing an unsavory truth from the usual narrative (http://www.thaivisa....cks/?p=10102982- last paragraph).

Most times, you simply avoid commenting on topics which deal with clear instances of Palestinian transgressions, or limit your responses to side issues and general accusations against Israel (http://www.thaivisa....ast-was-a-bomb/, http://www.thaivisa....hopping-centre/).

What we have here are one-sided blanket justifications, not much by way of actual condemnation. A whole lot of moral acrobatics and double standards. All this while claiming to be a great humanist. Now go on with the usual faux slurs -"besmirching", "nitpicking", "obfuscating", "deflecting", "disingenuous", "dishonest", "apologist". Last but not least...."blatant lie".

I looked at every reference you presented. In not a single instance do I condone violence against innocent Israeli civilians within the 67 lines. On the contrary, in many instances I offered sympathy. I invite readers to fact check Morch's links. Even your off topic deflection re the Gaza War, I believe somewhere I said words to the effect that anyone (and that well and truly includes the IDF) who fires missiles at innocent civilians is a terrorist.

You seem with your extensive file to be conducting some sort of personal baiting vendetta against me.

Can we get back to the OP?

[Morch]

@Morch

Sorry still probs with formatting. All my options bars are greyed out. If anyone could suggest a solution, I'd appreciate it. Tried signing in and out and deleting cookies to no avail.

Dexterm wrote

>>On more than one occasion you justified Palestinian attacks within Israel.

That's a blatant lie. I have never condoned acts of violence within the 67 lines. Put up or shut up.

Morch wrote..

>>Big words again. Guess we'll have another re-hash of this scene. Oh well...

The claim that acts of violence within the 67 lines are not condoned fails to mentions them caveats you associate with this statement. For example, "not assisting the IDF or the occupation" (http://www.thaivisa....3#entry10516145), this allows for quite a broad range of exceptions. Presumably, anyone who served or serves (including reserve duty) with the IDF, anyone holding a position with organizations (public or otherwise) having anything to do with the West Bank or the IDF, etc...

On other occasions, these caveats were even applied only with regard to Jews serving in the IDF (http://www.thaivisa....pot/?p=10464330), somehow skirting around the issue of minorities in such position.

Unless I missed something, can't recall Palestinian mortar and rocket attacks being considered illegitimate. For those struggling with geography, these attacks originate from the Gaza Strip, but are directed at Israel (that is, within the 1967 lines). That both the UN and the PA see it otherwise (as possible war crime, to be exact), makes no difference for some.

Sometimes, the 1967 lines "safe zone" is breached with references to the 1948 lines (http://www.thaivisa....ops/?p=10085390).

But perhaps it comes down to overreaching assertions such as that "Palestinians are not stabbing innocent people". Indeed, it seems that in your eyes almost any Israeli can easily be stripped of innocents, while Palestinians are by default innocent of any wrongdoing.

Parents are to be blamed for the fate of their children, provided they Israeli illegal settlers (http://www.thaivisa....3#entry10477726), no such responsibility expected of Palestinian parents. The death of a US Palestinian teen participating in a violent clash with IDF soldiers is condemned, the death of a US Jewish teen handing food to IDF soldiers is condoned. Same goes for the national level, as the often proclaimed "I blame the Israeli government" is never echoed by requiring accountability from Palestinian leadership. Any post which attempts to place the responsibility on Palestinians, is rejected.

On the rare occasions when nothing can defend the indefensible, mild expressions of sympathy to victims are expressed. But not without the inevitable cop out justification, casting doubt on circumstances, motives, and misplacing blame. This is a crude PR maneuver aimed at distancing an unsavory truth from the usual narrative (http://www.thaivisa....cks/?p=10102982- last paragraph).

Most times, you simply avoid commenting on topics which deal with clear instances of Palestinian transgressions, or limit your responses to side issues and general accusations against Israel (http://www.thaivisa....ast-was-a-bomb/, http://www.thaivisa....hopping-centre/).

What we have here are one-sided blanket justifications, not much by way of actual condemnation. A whole lot of moral acrobatics and double standards. All this while claiming to be a great humanist. Now go on with the usual faux slurs -"besmirching", "nitpicking", "obfuscating", "deflecting", "disingenuous", "dishonest", "apologist". Last but not least...."blatant lie".

I looked at every reference you presented. In not a single instance do I condone violence against innocent Israeli civilians within the 67 lines. On the contrary, in many instances I offered sympathy. I invite readers to fact check Morch's links. Even your off topic deflection re the Gaza War, I believe somewhere I said words to the effect that anyone (and that well and truly includes the IDF) who fires missiles at innocent civilians is a terrorist.

You seem with your extensive file to be conducting some sort of personal baiting vendetta against me.

Can we get back to the OP?

Funny how those formatting/quoting issues always come up, eh?

Twist them words.

Your on record caveats as to what you consider "innocent" are linked above. Allowing quite a leeway when justifying Palestinian violence. You are on record making excuses even for Palestinians who carried attacks within Israel, and even against people defined as "innocent" by your twisted standards (linked above as well). Same goes for applying different standard when referring to responsibilities of parents and leaderships. Your "sympathy" is offered (not that often as claimed), with the mandatory excuses and placing the ultimate blame on Israel.

Gaza mortar and rocket attacks (not limited to the Gaza War), are not a "deflection", they are clear instances of indiscriminate terrorist attacks aimed at civilians. You "believe" that "somewhere" you said "words to the effect"? How's about embracing your own rude post and putting up...? And even them alleged words are a mere generalization, not a denouncement of specific actions.

"You seem with your extensive file to be conducting some sort of personal baiting vendetta against me."

Playing the victim card? You challenged my post, now whinging when support is provided. As for the apparent paranoia and delusion of grandeur - just a very good memory, and the wonders of search functions. Didn't take too long, really.

As for getting back to the OP....stop derailing it with nonsense and that won't be a problem.

[dexterm]

@Morch

Sorry still probs with formatting. All my options bars are greyed out. If anyone could suggest a solution, I'd appreciate it. Tried signing in and out and deleting cookies to no avail.

Dexterm wrote

>>On more than one occasion you justified Palestinian attacks within Israel.

That's a blatant lie. I have never condoned acts of violence within the 67 lines. Put up or shut up.

Morch wrote..

>>Big words again. Guess we'll have another re-hash of this scene. Oh well...

The claim that acts of violence within the 67 lines are not condoned fails to mentions them caveats you associate with this statement. For example, "not assisting the IDF or the occupation" (http://www.thaivisa....3#entry10516145), this allows for quite a broad range of exceptions. Presumably, anyone who served or serves (including reserve duty) with the IDF, anyone holding a position with organizations (public or otherwise) having anything to do with the West Bank or the IDF, etc...

On other occasions, these caveats were even applied only with regard to Jews serving in the IDF (http://www.thaivisa....pot/?p=10464330), somehow skirting around the issue of minorities in such position.

Unless I missed something, can't recall Palestinian mortar and rocket attacks being considered illegitimate. For those struggling with geography, these attacks originate from the Gaza Strip, but are directed at Israel (that is, within the 1967 lines). That both the UN and the PA see it otherwise (as possible war crime, to be exact), makes no difference for some.

Sometimes, the 1967 lines "safe zone" is breached with references to the 1948 lines (http://www.thaivisa....ops/?p=10085390).

But perhaps it comes down to overreaching assertions such as that "Palestinians are not stabbing innocent people". Indeed, it seems that in your eyes almost any Israeli can easily be stripped of innocents, while Palestinians are by default innocent of any wrongdoing.

Parents are to be blamed for the fate of their children, provided they Israeli illegal settlers (http://www.thaivisa....3#entry10477726), no such responsibility expected of Palestinian parents. The death of a US Palestinian teen participating in a violent clash with IDF soldiers is condemned, the death of a US Jewish teen handing food to IDF soldiers is condoned. Same goes for the national level, as the often proclaimed "I blame the Israeli government" is never echoed by requiring accountability from Palestinian leadership. Any post which attempts to place the responsibility on Palestinians, is rejected.

On the rare occasions when nothing can defend the indefensible, mild expressions of sympathy to victims are expressed. But not without the inevitable cop out justification, casting doubt on circumstances, motives, and misplacing blame. This is a crude PR maneuver aimed at distancing an unsavory truth from the usual narrative (http://www.thaivisa....cks/?p=10102982- last paragraph).

Most times, you simply avoid commenting on topics which deal with clear instances of Palestinian transgressions, or limit your responses to side issues and general accusations against Israel (http://www.thaivisa....ast-was-a-bomb/, http://www.thaivisa....hopping-centre/).

What we have here are one-sided blanket justifications, not much by way of actual condemnation. A whole lot of moral acrobatics and double standards. All this while claiming to be a great humanist. Now go on with the usual faux slurs -"besmirching", "nitpicking", "obfuscating", "deflecting", "disingenuous", "dishonest", "apologist". Last but not least...."blatant lie".

I looked at every reference you presented. In not a single instance do I condone violence against innocent Israeli civilians within the 67 lines. On the contrary, in many instances I offered sympathy. I invite readers to fact check Morch's links. Even your off topic deflection re the Gaza War, I believe somewhere I said words to the effect that anyone (and that well and truly includes the IDF) who fires missiles at innocent civilians is a terrorist.

You seem with your extensive file to be conducting some sort of personal baiting vendetta against me.

Can we get back to the OP?

Funny how those formatting/quoting issues always come up, eh?

Twist them words.

Your on record caveats as to what you consider "innocent" are linked above. Allowing quite a leeway when justifying Palestinian violence. You are on record making excuses even for Palestinians who carried attacks within Israel, and even against people defined as "innocent" by your twisted standards (linked above as well). Same goes for applying different standard when referring to responsibilities of parents and leaderships. Your "sympathy" is offered (not that often as claimed), with the mandatory excuses and placing the ultimate blame on Israel.

Gaza mortar and rocket attacks (not limited to the Gaza War), are not a "deflection", they are clear instances of indiscriminate terrorist attacks aimed at civilians. You "believe" that "somewhere" you said "words to the effect"? How's about embracing your own rude post and putting up...? And even them alleged words are a mere generalization, not a denouncement of specific actions.

"You seem with your extensive file to be conducting some sort of personal baiting vendetta against me."

Playing the victim card? You challenged my post, now whinging when support is provided. As for the apparent paranoia and delusion of grandeur - just a very good memory, and the wonders of search functions. Didn't take too long, really.

As for getting back to the OP....stop derailing it with nonsense and that won't be a problem.

My formatting problems are real. You may have noticed I have not been able to bold print, underline or italicize recently, as I usually do. Could be my poor dongle reception here in Thailand. May try a netcafe to see if problems persist. If so, the fault may be with TV.

You complain/report when I don't quote you in full; hence my attempts to do so as best I can.

I vehemently deny all your accusations. I have suggested readers follow your links to see the spin you have put on my words. Including your ludicrous criticism of non statements; I'm in trouble for things I have NOT said, it appears. I didn't realize it was obligatory for members to comment on every single TV article concerning Israel. For some of us TV is not our day job. And I do have a life of commitments, pastimes, and travel outside of the forum.

If I can find the time, I will try to track down my statements re ALL indiscriminate attacks against INNOCENT civilians by the IDF and Hamas (within the 67 lines) is terrorism. There, look, I just said it again. Quote that one if you like.

But it is you making the accusations, not I. So the burden of proof is upon you.

Three times now I have denied your fabrication. Before the mods' patience wears thin, I will leave it there.

[Morch]

@Morch

Sorry still probs with formatting. All my options bars are greyed out. If anyone could suggest a solution, I'd appreciate it. Tried signing in and out and deleting cookies to no avail.

Dexterm wrote

>>On more than one occasion you justified Palestinian attacks within Israel.

That's a blatant lie. I have never condoned acts of violence within the 67 lines. Put up or shut up.

Morch wrote..

>>Big words again. Guess we'll have another re-hash of this scene. Oh well...

The claim that acts of violence within the 67 lines are not condoned fails to mentions them caveats you associate with this statement. For example, "not assisting the IDF or the occupation" (http://www.thaivisa....3#entry10516145), this allows for quite a broad range of exceptions. Presumably, anyone who served or serves (including reserve duty) with the IDF, anyone holding a position with organizations (public or otherwise) having anything to do with the West Bank or the IDF, etc...

On other occasions, these caveats were even applied only with regard to Jews serving in the IDF (http://www.thaivisa....pot/?p=10464330), somehow skirting around the issue of minorities in such position.

Unless I missed something, can't recall Palestinian mortar and rocket attacks being considered illegitimate. For those struggling with geography, these attacks originate from the Gaza Strip, but are directed at Israel (that is, within the 1967 lines). That both the UN and the PA see it otherwise (as possible war crime, to be exact), makes no difference for some.

Sometimes, the 1967 lines "safe zone" is breached with references to the 1948 lines (http://www.thaivisa....ops/?p=10085390).

But perhaps it comes down to overreaching assertions such as that "Palestinians are not stabbing innocent people". Indeed, it seems that in your eyes almost any Israeli can easily be stripped of innocents, while Palestinians are by default innocent of any wrongdoing.

Parents are to be blamed for the fate of their children, provided they Israeli illegal settlers (http://www.thaivisa....3#entry10477726), no such responsibility expected of Palestinian parents. The death of a US Palestinian teen participating in a violent clash with IDF soldiers is condemned, the death of a US Jewish teen handing food to IDF soldiers is condoned. Same goes for the national level, as the often proclaimed "I blame the Israeli government" is never echoed by requiring accountability from Palestinian leadership. Any post which attempts to place the responsibility on Palestinians, is rejected.

On the rare occasions when nothing can defend the indefensible, mild expressions of sympathy to victims are expressed. But not without the inevitable cop out justification, casting doubt on circumstances, motives, and misplacing blame. This is a crude PR maneuver aimed at distancing an unsavory truth from the usual narrative (http://www.thaivisa....cks/?p=10102982- last paragraph).

Most times, you simply avoid commenting on topics which deal with clear instances of Palestinian transgressions, or limit your responses to side issues and general accusations against Israel (http://www.thaivisa....ast-was-a-bomb/, http://www.thaivisa....hopping-centre/).

What we have here are one-sided blanket justifications, not much by way of actual condemnation. A whole lot of moral acrobatics and double standards. All this while claiming to be a great humanist. Now go on with the usual faux slurs -"besmirching", "nitpicking", "obfuscating", "deflecting", "disingenuous", "dishonest", "apologist". Last but not least...."blatant lie".

I looked at every reference you presented. In not a single instance do I condone violence against innocent Israeli civilians within the 67 lines. On the contrary, in many instances I offered sympathy. I invite readers to fact check Morch's links. Even your off topic deflection re the Gaza War, I believe somewhere I said words to the effect that anyone (and that well and truly includes the IDF) who fires missiles at innocent civilians is a terrorist.

You seem with your extensive file to be conducting some sort of personal baiting vendetta against me.

Can we get back to the OP?

Funny how those formatting/quoting issues always come up, eh?

Twist them words.

Your on record caveats as to what you consider "innocent" are linked above. Allowing quite a leeway when justifying Palestinian violence. You are on record making excuses even for Palestinians who carried attacks within Israel, and even against people defined as "innocent" by your twisted standards (linked above as well). Same goes for applying different standard when referring to responsibilities of parents and leaderships. Your "sympathy" is offered (not that often as claimed), with the mandatory excuses and placing the ultimate blame on Israel.

Gaza mortar and rocket attacks (not limited to the Gaza War), are not a "deflection", they are clear instances of indiscriminate terrorist attacks aimed at civilians. You "believe" that "somewhere" you said "words to the effect"? How's about embracing your own rude post and putting up...? And even them alleged words are a mere generalization, not a denouncement of specific actions.

"You seem with your extensive file to be conducting some sort of personal baiting vendetta against me."

Playing the victim card? You challenged my post, now whinging when support is provided. As for the apparent paranoia and delusion of grandeur - just a very good memory, and the wonders of search functions. Didn't take too long, really.

As for getting back to the OP....stop derailing it with nonsense and that won't be a problem.

My formatting problems are real. You may have noticed I have not been able to bold print, underline or italicize recently, as I usually do. Could be my poor dongle reception here in Thailand. May try a netcafe to see if problems persist. If so, the fault may be with TV.

You complain/report when I don't quote you in full; hence my attempts to do so as best I can.

I vehemently deny all your accusations. I have suggested readers follow your links to see the spin you have put on my words. Including your ludicrous criticism of non statements; I'm in trouble for things I have NOT said, it appears. I didn't realize it was obligatory for members to comment on every single TV article concerning Israel. For some of us TV is not our day job. And I do have a life of commitments, pastimes, and travel outside of the forum.

If I can find the time, I will try to track down my statements re ALL indiscriminate attacks against INNOCENT civilians by the IDF and Hamas (within the 67 lines) is terrorism. There, look, I just said it again. Quote that one if you like.

But it is you making the accusations, not I. So the burden of proof is upon you.

Three times now I have denied your fabrication. Before the mods' patience wears thin, I will leave it there.

Of course your problems are real. Why don't you constant support and sort them out then? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/19-forum-support-desk/

"Vehement" applies to many of your posts, wouldn't be a first. The links detail things you have said, caveats used to qualify statements and support the assertion that you mainly dodge such topics, such as not to be in a spot where you'll have to directly criticize anything to do with the Palestinians. The spin is entirely yours, as is the usual attempt to turn the tables.

As for the usual nonsense ("For some of us TV is not our day job. And I do have a life of commitments, pastimes, and travel outside of the forum."):

dexterm - Member Since 2014-07-14 - 2,187 posts. About 1000 posts a year.

Morch - Member Since 2006-09-11 - 5,142 posts. About 500 posts a year.

Once again, the weasel word is "innocents". How you define it is linked above. It allows quite a bit of wiggling room.

There's ample proof for all said, somehow you fail to address it other then by denying the obvious.

Run away then, didn't really expect you to own up.

[i claudius]

If the Palestinians were not constantly firing rockets into Israel , attacking innocent people and throwing petrol bombs at soldiers ,then terrible things like this would not happen ,hang your head in shame Hamas .

Another misconception in an attempt to deflect.

Illegal Zionist colonists driving on an for Israelis only apartheid road and an IDF army of occupation protecting them are not innocent people.

My father lived in Israel for 3 years , he was inocent , so dont give me that rubbish .