So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[billd766]

54 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

I did see the below quoted text which comes closes to any of your answers, of course it actually just says you don't know.... only for some reason you think it is wrong to be asked.

See no one actually knows what you want as you are doing everything possible to avoid the question. The closest you have come is stating your forefather's died for Britain fighting Germany and you wanted to honour that by leaving the EU, however as in the previous post(which you have derailed into something about nazis) the ironic thing about that is your forefathers died to prevent Germany controlling Europe(not Britain) and yet by voting to leave you leave Germany as having the most control in the EU....basically the exact opposite of what you think you voted for.

 

Britain declared war on Germany because of their aggression in Europe, not due to their aggression towards Britain. If you honestly don't know that, I don't know what else to say. Do you need links to information about how and why ww2 started? 

 

But the remainers want to know specific economic and migration statistics for the foreseeable future, otherwise brexiters are clueless idiots.

 

And the remainers know that we won't get anything we want from brexit because they know about the secret, mysterious power and influence that the EU has over Britain, but they won't let us brexiters in on the secret.

 

I have a great idea for you.

 

Instead of asking the Brexiteers on the forum what will happen why not address your queries to the UK government? After all they are the people with the power, and they will make the decisions for us all in exactly the same way that they would have made the decisions for us all if the Bremainers had won.

[billd766]

25 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

A BREXIT brainstorming session has come up with the idea of boosting the UK’s economy by remaining in the EU. 

The entire Conservative cabinet was brought together to think of new and radical approaches to Brexit by prime minister Theresa May, who told everyone that there are no bad ideas and everything is on the table. 

Brexit secretary David Davis said: “It was 2am when Liam Fox said ‘If we need to be in the single market and we need freedom of movement, why don’t we join the EU?’

“Unfortunately we realised that, post-Brexit, there’s no way we’d meet the criteria – the country will be a wreck – but as we haven’t actually left yet we can simply stay in. 

“Also, we worked out how to eliminate all the thorny problems of juggling private healthcare providers by creating a state-run, state-owned health service. 

“We should have these brainstorms more often. Really gets you thinking out of the box.” 

Theresa May said: “Brexit means Brexit, and Brexit means continuing as a full member of the EU. What?”

 

Daily Mash....

 

Do you believe what you have written or is it your idea of a joke?

[billd766]

14 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

...and now the "Double Irish" - Being a Brexiteer post brexit must be one of the most embarrassing jobs anyone could have - constantly defending the indefensible....

 

Brexiteers furious as corrupt EU forces Apple to pay proper amount of tax

 

 

 

 Now I see where you get all your important news from.

[cumgranosalum]

Just now, billd766 said:

 

 Now I see where you get all your important news from.

 

just keep re-posting it.....

[ljd1308]

9 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I have a great idea for you.

 

Instead of asking the Brexiteers on the forum what will happen why not address your queries to the UK government? After all they are the people with the power, and they will make the decisions for us all in exactly the same way that they would have made the decisions for us all if the Bremainers had won.

The point of an online forum is so that members can exchange views, i am just asking other members for their views, Given people voted, I just assumed they would have valid reasons for voting the way they did......clearly I was mistaken.

 

As far as I am aware no members if the UK government are on here, but if there are I would be happy to hear their views too.

[autanic]

On 29 August 2016 at 11:05 AM, ThaiPauly said:

I will say this and probably be damned by many for saying it, but it was only the old and the poorly educated that swung the vote for Brexit. 

 

All based on immigration and lies about the money we save from not being part of the EU .going into the NHS

 

They were conned, but having said that Osbourne and Cameron did not help matters by scaremongering.

 

I know this has all been said before...it's just my rant OK.

 

Many people in the UK voted Brexit, because we got sick of people telling us what to do.

We got sick of the Scottish, forever wanting independence, then they get a vote and vote to remain part of the UK, now they want a vote on independence again.  No body bothered to asked the rest of us, if we wanted to still have Scotland in our little club.

We got sick of George Osbourne saying were all in this together, while we eat cold pasties to save 20% VAT or some poor guy being evicted, because his disabled son uses an extra room, and they get caught out by the benefits tax/ spare bedroom tax.

We got sick of ringing up for an appointment for the Doctors to be told, hey we have an appoint for you next month.

We got sick of the sanctimonious way that European Officials take money from the UK and spend it on expenses to top up their over inflated salaries.

 

The list goes on and on.  However the media would have you think, that we just saw a Polish guy down the pub and thought Brexit would stop him from taking our jobs.  

Or that we were going to use 350 million pounds a week that we give to EU and give it to the NHS.  Of course we knew that wouldnt happen.

 

The fact is, the way things were working, was not working for the vast majority of the UK. People saw a chance to shake things up, after all it couldnt really be worse for most people and so they took a punt.

 

When David Cameron gave his speech with Sir John Major and tried to rally the country, that made even more people think, you know what, I am going to vote to leave, just to get you and Osbourne out of office.

 

Since then Ireland have had their ---- handed to them yesterday. It seems they as a Sovereign Nation cannot attract investment of Apple, the way they want. The EU has piped up and said, your not being fair, Ireland to the other 27 other countries.  I reckon, if Ireland starts losing these super blue chip companies, they will vote to leave to.

 

We could start own EU, to rival the existing one, one based on trade, rather than polical union, which no body want, except the Politicians. Who stand to benefit the most.

Edited August 31, 2016 by autanic

[Khun Han]

8 hours ago, ljd1308 said:

I did see the below quoted text which comes closes to any of your answers, of course it actually just says you don't know.... only for some reason you think it is wrong to be asked.

See no one actually knows what you want as you are doing everything possible to avoid the question. The closest you have come is stating your forefather's died for Britain fighting Germany and you wanted to honour that by leaving the EU, however as in the previous post(which you have derailed into something about nazis) the ironic thing about that is your forefathers died to prevent Germany controlling Europe(not Britain) and yet by voting to leave you leave Germany as having the most control in the EU....basically the exact opposite of what you think you voted for.

 

Britain declared war on Germany because of their aggression in Europe, not due to their aggression towards Britain. If you honestly don't know that, I don't know what else to say. Do you need links to information about how and why ww2 started? 

 

But the remainers want to know specific economic and migration statistics for the foreseeable future, otherwise brexiters are clueless idiots.

 

And the remainers know that we won't get anything we want from brexit because they know about the secret, mysterious power and influence that the EU has over Britain, but they won't let us brexiters in on the secret.

Oh well. I did say that I can't help with ignorance, especially when it's so determined and selective.

[Khun Han]

7 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

 

Ah! Favourite Brexit ploy instead of argument - reductio ad hitlerum.......

 

Favourite remainer ploy: Keep on ignoring everything that brexiters say, and just refer to them as stupid, clueless racists. And don't forget to accuse them of refusing to engage in serious debate after routinely ignoring their debating points. Or , at the very least, keep claiming that they won't get what they want from brexit, without producing a shred of factual evidence to back up the monotonous claim.

[happy Joe]

15 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

So you're denying that a federal Europe is not the aim of the EU then?

 

 

Yes, the ultimate goal is a federal Europe where current officials will be replaced by elected.

 

The UK was the major state holding back this development. Now, having digested the breakdown, Europe will engage in this natural path for those who know the original project.

[sandyf]

48 minutes ago, autanic said:

 

The list goes on and on.  However the media would have you think, that we just saw a Polish guy down the pub and thought Brexit would stop him from taking our jobs.  

You should check the media and see what happened to the Polish guy.

[autanic]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

You should check the media and see what happened to the Polish guy.

 

I believe he was murdered, by no other reason than he was Polish, by Murderous Teens, who should be locked up for the rest of their miserable insignificant lives.

 

No body that voted for Brexit ever want anything like this and it is not done in our name.

 

Thise than voted for brexit want to be self governing which is a world and a half away from what these murderers have done this poor man. 

 

May he rest in peace.

[AlexRich]

6 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Favourite remainer ploy: Keep on ignoring everything that brexiters say, and just refer to them as stupid, clueless racists. And don't forget to accuse them of refusing to engage in serious debate after routinely ignoring their debating points. Or , at the very least, keep claiming that they won't get what they want from brexit, without producing a shred of factual evidence to back up the monotonous claim.

 

They won't get an extra £350 million per week to spend on social services, specifically the NHS. That promise (or as Ian Duncan Smith says "possibilities") was on the side of their campaign bus for all the world to see.

 

They won't get free unfettered access to the EU market ... unless they offer up free movement and contributions to the EU. If not, we are looking at tariffs of some description, revocation of the Bank's 'passport' system, and we'll still have to comply with their legislation requirements. This one will be a 'red line' in the negotiations. The 'they need us more than we need them' argument will be shown for what it is ... exaggerated. If the EU have to choose between losing a few car sales and discouraging other countries from leaving, they'll lose the car sales.

 

You should be able to lower the number of immigrants, particularly from the east of Europe, but given that our economic growth projections factored population growth in, we might find that we still get plenty of them, because we need them. 

 

Ultimately, if the negotiations don't pan out as well as the brexiteers expect and the trade deals don't materialise quickly we might experience 'buyers regret' on sufficient numbers to shape a general election. At the moment, little has changed, but once Article 50 is triggered and the reality of what "exit" actually means becomes clearer we'll all be much closer to what the real implications are. Personally, I don't think the cost/benefit will work in the UK's favour. 

 

[autanic]

4 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

They won't get an extra £350 million per week to spend on social services, specifically the NHS. That promise (or as Ian Duncan Smith says "possibilities") was on the side of their campaign bus for all the world to see.

 

They won't get free unfettered access to the EU market ... unless they offer up free movement and contributions to the EU. If not, we are looking at tariffs of some description, revocation of the Bank's 'passport' system, and we'll still have to comply with their legislation requirements. This one will be a 'red line' in the negotiations. The 'they need us more than we need them' argument will be shown for what it is ... exaggerated. If the EU have to choose between losing a few car sales and discouraging other countries from leaving, they'll lose the car sales.

 

You should be able to lower the number of immigrants, particularly from the east of Europe, but given that our economic growth projections factored population growth in, we might find that we still get plenty of them, because we need them. 

 

Ultimately, if the negotiations don't pan out as well as the brexiteers expect and the trade deals don't materialise quickly we might experience 'buyers regret' on sufficient numbers to shape a general election. At the moment, little has changed, but once Article 50 is triggered and the reality of what "exit" actually means becomes clearer we'll all be much closer to what the real implications are. Personally, I don't think the cost/benefit will work in the UK's favour. 

 

 

I think that the rest of the EU, need to wake up and smell the coffee. We can have access to any product or service anywhere in the world. Britain buys goods already, from China, India, USA and everywhere else without having to accept thousands of migrants and pay into those Countries.  Well lets face it if HSBC or any other fancies moving to another Country in the EU, simply pay back any bail out funds paid to them from the British Tax Payer if any and book your flight, you won't be missed at all.

 

In Britain, we have a situation where poor white and black kids of 16 -25 years old are unemployed, ok its not as bad as France or Spain, but it is a waste. By implementing a fair pay scheme with benefits (not state benefits), then these kids can make a real life for themselves.  Not every one is going to go to University, but that does not mean they should be written off, teach them a trade, give them opportunity, not made to feel that if you can;t be bothered we will just give your job to a migrant.

 

Pound for Pound (kg for kg), Britain packs the biggest punch in the world for a country of its size with only Japan being more superior, in terms of work ethic and workforce and aspiration. People make out that the UK needs to access the single market, really it doesn't. Yes it's better for exports, but since joining the common market in 1972 Britain's exports have declined, it trade deficit couldn't be worse.

 

I think sometime, there is a bit of Donald Trump mentality in Europe towards the UK. They want a wall and they want the UK to pay for it or else they want it all their own way. 

 

The best of luck and thanks for the opportunity, we will see ourselves out.

[Ricardo]

Given the closeness of the exit-vote, and the revelations since that there were a lot of misleading statements*  (if not outright lies)  from both sides during the campaigning, does anyone think that there should be a confirmatory second-vote  once the actual-terms of the exit-deal available are known ?

 

If the deals, as finally negotiated, won't anyway give the Brexiteers what they wanted or hoped for, or of the situation within the EU were to change, for example ?  This is a major non-reversible decision, to still leave regardless of what the alternative might turn out to be ?

 

*   http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37238641   " The Electoral Reform Society attacked both sides of the referendum campaign, saying people felt "ill-informed" by the "dire" debate. "

Edited September 1, 2016 by Ricardo

[vogie]

48 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Given the closeness of the exit-vote, and the revelations since that there were a lot of misleading statements*  (if not outright lies)  from both sides during the campaigning, does anyone think that there should be a confirmatory second-vote  once the actual-terms of the exit-deal available are known ?

 

If the deals, as finally negotiated, won't anyway give the Brexiteers what they wanted or hoped for, or of the situation within the EU were to change, for example ?  This is a major non-reversible decision, to still leave regardless of what the alternative might turn out to be ?

 

*   http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37238641   " The Electoral Reform Society attacked both sides of the referendum campaign, saying people felt "ill-informed" by the "dire" debate. "

 

No!

[JB300]

 

I think that the rest of the EU, need to wake up and smell the coffee. We can have access to any product or service anywhere in the world. Britain buys goods already, from China, India, USA and everywhere else without having to accept thousands of migrants and pay into those Countries.  Well lets face it if HSBC or any other fancies moving to another Country in the EU, simply pay back any bail out funds paid to them from the British Tax Payer if any and book your flight, you won't be missed at all.

 

In Britain, we have a situation where poor white and black kids of 16 -25 years old are unemployed, ok its not as bad as France or Spain, but it is a waste. By implementing a fair pay scheme with benefits (not state benefits), then these kids can make a real life for themselves.  Not every one is going to go to University, but that does not mean they should be written off, teach them a trade, give them opportunity, not made to feel that if you can;t be bothered we will just give your job to a migrant.

 

Pound for Pound (kg for kg), Britain packs the biggest punch in the world for a country of its size with only Japan being more superior, in terms of work ethic and workforce and aspiration. People make out that the UK needs to access the single market, really it doesn't. Yes it's better for exports, but since joining the common market in 1972 Britain's exports have declined, it trade deficit couldn't be worse.

 

I think sometime, there is a bit of Donald Trump mentality in Europe towards the UK. They want a wall and they want the UK to pay for it or else they want it all their own way. 

 

The best of luck and thanks for the opportunity, we will see ourselves out.

Ok, let's let HSBC move its headquarters & take back all the £0 they were paid bailouts (even if they paid back £Billions the real danger is the exodus of the none-UK banks, especially the American ones).

And let's hold Japan up as an example of how to run your economy (how long have they had de/stagflation now?) But let's ignore countries like Singapore & Switzerland that "Pound for Pound" punch the living day lights out of the U.K. & are made up of approx 50% immigrants.

But it's clear that there is a (perceived) problem with immigration in the heartlands (same in SG & CH) that needs to be dealt with & the "simple" answer to to give every country control over who they let live/work there (good if we keep freedom of travel).

[cumgranosalum]

I take Brexit seriously, but I simply can't take Brexiteers seriously - the nonsense about federalism, "feedom" "immigrants" etc is just that nonsense....

 

BTW - most successful economies are federal countries

Edited September 1, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Khun Han]

So, it seems that remainers on here can't even agree on whether being a member of the EU will mean we eventually become a part of a federal Europe or not! And they claim that brexiters are confused!

[SussexExpat]

7 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

I take Brexit seriously, but I simply can't take Brexiteers seriously - the nonsense about federalism, "feedom" "immigrants" etc is just that nonsense....

 

BTW - most successful economies are federal countries

Man up. You lost.  Your constant whinging is laughable.

 

P.S. If I said what I really wanted, my post would be deleted.

[vogie]

On 30 August 2016 at 8:55 PM, ljd1308 said:

Isn't whole clause allowing 2 years to negotiate and leave some sort of assurance you can leave? Why would you think that would change to the point where you were not allowed to leave?

 

And if you know exactly what you voted for, tell us!!!! No one else has, what will be the trade agreements reached for Britain? What will the immigration policy be? What will be economic benefit to the average man on the street?

 

To be honest, I will be surprised if you answer(though very impressed) given the fact we are no on page 41 of a thread asking what has been gained....why have you not shared that info before? I could have made the thread alot shorter.

 

It seems to me you don't know what you were voting for and were only voting against something..... Not really the most logical way to vote if that is the case.

 

 

Do not stoop to their level, we are better than that.

[cumgranosalum]

20 minutes ago, SussexExpat said:

Man up. You lost.  Your constant whinging is laughable.

 

P.S. If I said what I really wanted, my post would be deleted.

"Man up. You lost.  Your constant whinging is laughable." - as ever Brexiteers have no idea of how democracy works. It wasn't a football match and it is my democratic right to argue against something I believe to be wrong - telling people to "man up" just shows how little Brexiteers understand about how democracy works - government of the people by the people for the people....not mob rule or football scores....

 

If you don't understand how disturbing your comments are listen to this.

 

Ian Hislop says remainers can still have their say, despite losing the referendum result #bbcqt https://t.co/jOGwttfdxF

— BBC Question Time (@bbcquestiontime) July 7, 2016

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[i claudius]

This will run for ever , the ones who wanted to remain will just go on moaning about us Brexit lot and calling us dumb , perhaps we were , but then perhaps we were not , maybe the remainers were the dumb ones ,who can tell , but the fact is the vote went the way of the brexit bunch , now cant we just get on and close this pointless debate?

 

[jayboy]

12 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

"Man up. You lost.  Your constant whinging is laughable." - as ever Brexiteers have no idea of how democracy works. It wasn't a football match and it is my democratic right to argue against something I believe to be wrong - telling people to "man up" just shows how little Brexiteers understand about how democracy works - government of the people by the people for the people....not mob rule or football scores....

 

If you don't understand how disturbing your comments are listen to this.

 

Ian Hislop says remainers can still have their say, despite losing the referendum result #bbcqt https://t.co/jOGwttfdxF

— BBC Question Time (@bbcquestiontime) July 7, 2016

 

 

Yes and no.Hislop certainly is right that those opposed to the Brexit decision have every right to disagree.Was anybody however ever suggesting otherwise? What is unacceptable however is the proposition that there is the right to subvert or overturn the democratic decision taken by the British electorate.Hislop isn't suggesting this but I am struggling a little to understand what his point is.There are plenty of Remainers eg David Lammy M.P who would like to do just this.

 

Personally I back the PM's position.She didn't want Brexit herself (my position also) but she respects the referendum result and will implement the British people's decision - ie make the best of it.

 

Personally I can understand the profound irritation many feel for people like Hislop (a good guy) on this occasion.There is a sense that wealthy London, liberally minded and "educated"  somehow know more than the rest of the country, and have an unpleasant contempt for those who don't hold their opinons (ie most British people).They talk of democracy but go ape when a decision doesn't go their way.

 

 

[Jip99]

10 hours ago, sandyf said:

You should check the media and see what happened to the Polish guy.

 

 

 

You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

Bringing a violent act in a known area of trouble into a Brexit debate is pathetic. The media will hype it as 'hate crime' but I would like to say that I thought you would know better - sadly I can't.

[Ricardo]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

 

No!

 

OK, a trifle brief, but I'd be interested to know your reasons for saying so ?

 

Is it irrelevant that the ERS say that   "voters had viewed both sides as increasingly negative, and many "simply did not trust" their key claims. These included Remain saying households would be on overage £4,300 worse off outside the EU and Leave claiming an extra £350m could be spent on the NHS. "

 

and   "There were glaring democratic deficiencies in the run-up to the vote, with the public feeling totally ill-informed. Both sides were viewed as highly negative by voters, while the top-down, personality-based nature of the debate failed to address major policies and issues, leaving the public in the dark."

 

" On the plus side, the society said it had heard "time and again" from people who felt the referendum was the first time their vote "had truly counted".

 

The Electoral Reform Society has no axe to grind here, if they feel that the vote was preceded by  "glaring democratic deficiencies", does that not in-the-slightest dent your confidence in the validity of the result ?

 

And since a second vote, after the exit-deal & new trade-deals had been negotiated, would be more fully-informed and hopefully less-flawed, it might produce a clearer majority for the decision either way. Would that be wrong ?

 

Answering more fully than No/Yes would be appreciated !

[ljd1308]

38 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

Yes and no.Hislop certainly is right that those opposed to the Brexit decision have every right to disagree.Was anybody however ever suggesting otherwise? What is unacceptable however is the proposition that there is the right to subvert or overturn the democratic decision taken by the British electorate.Hislop isn't suggesting this but I am struggling a little to understand what his point is.There are plenty of Remainers eg David Lammy M.P who would like to do just this.

 

Personally I back the PM's position.She didn't want Brexit herself (my position also) but she respects the referendum result and will implement the British people's decision - ie make the best of it.

 

Personally I can understand the profound irritation many feel for people like Hislop (a good guy) on this occasion.There is a sense that wealthy London, liberally minded and "educated"  somehow know more than the rest of the country, and have an unpleasant contempt for those who don't hold their opinons (ie most British people).They talk of democracy but go ape when a decision doesn't go their way.

 

 

Don't educated people generally know more? Isn't that what education is.....unless by using the inverted comma's I am missing some context.

 

Most of the rest I agree with(unfortunately), though I don't think that the referendum is binding

[cumgranosalum]

41 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

Yes and no.Hislop certainly is right that those opposed to the Brexit decision have every right to disagree.Was anybody however ever suggesting otherwise? What is unacceptable however is the proposition that there is the right to subvert or overturn the democratic decision taken by the British electorate.Hislop isn't suggesting this but I am struggling a little to understand what his point is.There are plenty of Remainers eg David Lammy M.P who would like to do just this.

 

Personally I back the PM's position.She didn't want Brexit herself (my position also) but she respects the referendum result and will implement the British people's decision - ie make the best of it.

 

Personally I can understand the profound irritation many feel for people like Hislop (a good guy) on this occasion.There is a sense that wealthy London, liberally minded and "educated"  somehow know more than the rest of the country, and have an unpleasant contempt for those who don't hold their opinons (ie most British people).They talk of democracy but go ape when a decision doesn't go their way.

 

 

referendums are not legally binding in the UK - and contrary to normal procedure - they are not democratic all they do is indicate what a majority of voters (those who actually voted) want on a particular day.

In the UK we have a government that is elected to do this sort of thing....they did a Pontius Pilot on the whole thing.

If there was an election today the referendum would be thrown out by a massive majority.

 

 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

 

referendums are not legally binding in the UK - and contrary to normal procedure - they are not democratic all they do is indicate what a majority of voters (those who actually voted) want on a particular day.

In the UK we have a government that is elected to do this sort of thing....they did a Pontius Pilot on the whole thing.

If there was an election today the referendum would be thrown out by a massive majority.

 

 

 

 

Yes but if we did have another referendum today and the result was overturned, who is to say that the populus was having an off day so we'll have another and then another. The fact is we have had a vote, and all of us must abide by the result, you cannot keep moving the goal posts untill you get the result you wanted. You are sounding like a baby who has spat his dummy out! You will not get your own way no matter how much you cry, the dice has been cast and roll on independence day.

[jayboy]

Don't educated people generally know more? Isn't that what education is.....unless by using the inverted comma's I am missing some context.

 

Most of the rest I agree with(unfortunately), though I don't think that the referendum is binding

It's the wrong question.Whether well educated or not people tend to have a very accurate understanding of what decision benefits their families and communities.Intelligence is spread evenly in a population.The inverted commas really refer to Thailand where the self appointed "good people" believe they have a monopoly on intelligence, and should block the majority if necessary.There was a slight suggestion of this Thai fallacy in the "educated" people who voted against Brexit in the UK.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Ricardo said:

 

OK, a trifle brief, but I'd be interested to know your reasons for saying so ?

 

Is it irrelevant that the ERS say that   "voters had viewed both sides as increasingly negative, and many "simply did not trust" their key claims. These included Remain saying households would be on overage £4,300 worse off outside the EU and Leave claiming an extra £350m could be spent on the NHS. "

 

and   "There were glaring democratic deficiencies in the run-up to the vote, with the public feeling totally ill-informed. Both sides were viewed as highly negative by voters, while the top-down, personality-based nature of the debate failed to address major policies and issues, leaving the public in the dark."

 

" On the plus side, the society said it had heard "time and again" from people who felt the referendum was the first time their vote "had truly counted".

 

The Electoral Reform Society has no axe to grind here, if they feel that the vote was preceded by  "glaring democratic deficiencies", does that not in-the-slightest dent your confidence in the validity of the result ?

 

And since a second vote, after the exit-deal & new trade-deals had been negotiated, would be more fully-informed and hopefully less-flawed, it might produce a clearer majority for the decision either way. Would that be wrong ?

 

Answering more fully than No/Yes would be appreciated !

I entirely agree with the first four and a half paragraphs of your post, so will restrict my comments to the remainder.

 

The vote was as valid as any General Election vote as political parties also lie in the run-up to an election.  I can understand voters thinking that the referendum was the first time their vote had truly counted as it was a simple 'yes/no' vote - with the majority vote 'winning'.

 

2nd edit (somehow I lost part of my original post when editing....) - I suspect that Brexit voters would be unhappy about another referendum after negotiations as this would give the government an excuse to come up with the worst possible deal - as this would likely lead to the government's preferred vote - remain.

 

Edit - Although personally (and I stress personally!), I wouldn't mind another referendum if the EU structure/cost etc. etc. were thoroughly reformed.  Its not going to happen though as they are not about to pay themselves reasonable salaries/reduce their empires etc. etc. 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by dick dasterdly