So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[Docno]

Wrecking the UK economy just to stop a few immigrants is xenophobic madness.

People says Thais are xenophobic, nothing compared to this.

"Wrecking the UK economy..." That remains to be seen. It's certainly too early to tell, and one cannot reach definitive conclusions on the basis of initial reactions.

But you seem to see the world through the eyes of an economist, and that's a big mistake. Psychology tells us a lot more about these things than does economics. I was in Canada in the early 90s when there was a sovereignty (separation/independence) referendum in Quebec. The 'stay' side made the same mistake as you: it framed the debate in terms of $$$ and threatened Quebec with an economic meltdown if it were to leave. That argument fell on deaf ears because for the Quebec separatists, the issue was about self-determination and the psychology and symbolism associated with that. English Canada--always more money-minded in general--couldn't understand what they saw as this irrational and suicidal denial of reality. The separatists lost the referendum by only a couple of percentage points and only because non-Francophone immigrants (and their descendants) voted solidly to stay within Canada ... after, people immigrate to a country, not a province.

The point is that you can't win these debates with economic arguments. For many people, notions of sovereignty, self-determination, and nationhood trump economic issues and uncertainty. It doesn't mean these people are xenophobic or racist, just that their priorities are different than yours.

p.s. I was hoping for a different outcome for this vote.

[ozyjon]

Wrecking the UK economy, NO

Saving the UK economy,,,, you

watch the downward spiral of

world economy because of the

USA, printing as much money as

it wants, BRICS countries with

the Saudies to end the US dollar

being the reserve currency and

ending the oil to be priced in US

Dollars,, just wait and see.

A must read

Planet Ponzi

http://planetponzi.com/

[salavan]

scotland now has the right for a second referendum which they intend to have we will also loose all the revenue from them also

[Crowes]

Been watching a lot of the news. I have a feeling many Brits are going to wake up tomorrow morning, bewildered, and asking themselves "What have we done??"

Temporary market overreaction beats looking back 50 years from now and saying "What have we done?"

[elgordo38]

Wrecking the UK economy, NO

Saving the UK economy,,,, you

watch the downward spiral of

world economy because of the

USA, printing as much money as

it wants, BRICS countries with

the Saudies to end the US dollar

being the reserve currency and

ending the oil to be priced in US

Dollars,, just wait and see.

A must read

Planet Ponzi

http://planetponzi.com/

Yes it is definitely Planet Ponzi we are living on. Soon the super/uber rich will start packing up their ill gotten gain and start heading for the exits leaving the poor working smuck behind. Will the last worker left please turn out the lights.

[The manic]

We gained controll of our borders- our laws - OUR Sovereignty - we have started to shed liberal Marxist dogma enforced via political correctness - we have made a step forward against the Islamification of the UK. We have rejected the overpaid unelected Euro dictators who have humiliated us with their absurd laws. What have we gained? - pride and the knowledge that once again Britain is a genuine world leader who the the rest of Europe will follow.

The EU is a broken political machine. We know it and so do many other nations who want a trading partenership but not a federal political union dominated by the Germans and French socialists. The UK has once again been brave enough to help liberate Europe! Next we liberate the cities from where a generation of white working class and middle class people have been ethnically cleansed. Or maybe things will just carry on as normal!

Edited June 24, 2016 by The manic

[Seraphina]

I'd be interested if the participants on this forum would tag their comments to indicate:

a) if they have an economics A'level or Degree and are aware of different economic theories.

the last year they contributed to the British economy.

c) if they voted to join the EU and then voted out this time.

Economists look at the long-term benefits/costs to the economy (some economic cycles take 50-75 years) and us little people live with the reality of short term benefits, I know. And we all live in our own little worlds, don't we? Be honest!

I realise that people get emotional about these things, but look at German reunification and how much that COST the west German economy in the years following - 100 billion euros a year for 20 years. I wonder if Brits realise that they have a far higher average standard of living than say, the French and Italians...

I'd be far more incensed by how the banks have completely messed up the British economy and added 100k+ pounds per capita to the national debt, yet still take 4 million pounds per annum in bonuses - and that's a small British bank not an international one!

So my conclusion is: We ought to be looking at the balance sheet in the long term and basically.... get rid of all the bankers (that's a joke, by the way...it's not a fatwa!) on arbitrary bonuses that are not related to performance and are robbing the public year after year!

The Banks? Guilty. How many years are you going to scapegoat for bad government policies? National debt is run up by government. UK debt is worse than the US. People quote the US because it is astounding large figure, % of GDP other countries are worse. The world is on its last credit card and cannot cover the interest on previous cards.

UK public debt to GDP = 89.2%, USA public debt to GDP = 104.17%. How is the UK debt worse?

Good point. I don't see it as different in fact, but then the US doesn't have anyone telling them what to do or breathing down our neck about what can and can't be called 'ice cream' and similar.

I agree with many of the comments regarding the incompetency of our governments, by the way. I highly recommend Jeremy Paxman's book called "Politcial Animals". He notes that few British politicans, at the time of writing his book, had obtained more than five, note: FIVE measely O'levels; even fewer had any science or political science O'levels....

How many have a 2:1 Degree or above, we can only guess. And btw, I doubt it's any better in the US. God forbid that we ever have a Sarah Palin in the ranks of our politicians!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Political-Animal-Anatomy-Jeremy-Paxman/dp/0141032960

[Seraphina]

scotland now has the right for a second referendum which they intend to have we will also loose all the revenue from them also

Please tell us more about this interesting subject if you're allowed to and how that would work.

I suppose we could aways trade British water for Scottish oil?

[The manic]

Economists know Duck all! The so called experts are a joke in all areas of life not just economics. Arrogant know nothings and a pack of arty lovies from the media actually thought they were more important than regular folk and had no idea of the contempt in which they are held. Next Sweden - Holland- France and so on until we regroup as an economic union not a centrally controlled, corrupt unelected, death by beuracracy junta!

[Seraphina]

I'd be interested if the participants on this forum would tag their comments to indicate:

a) if they have an economics A'level or Degree and are aware of different economic theories.

the last year they contributed to the British economy.

c) if they voted to join the EU and then voted out this time.

Economists look at the long-term benefits/costs to the economy (some economic cycles take 50-75 years) and us little people live with the reality of short term benefits, I know. And we all live in our own little worlds, don't we? Be honest!

I realise that people get emotional about these things, but look at German reunification and how much that COST the west German economy in the years following - 100 billion euros a year for 20 years. I wonder if Brits realise that they have a far higher average standard of living than say, the French and Italians...

I'd be far more incensed by how the banks have completely messed up the British economy and added 100k+ pounds per capita to the national debt, yet still take 4 million pounds per annum in bonuses - and that's a small British bank not an international one!

So my conclusion is: We ought to be looking at the balance sheet in the long term and basically.... get rid of all the bankers (that's a joke, by the way...it's not a fatwa!) on arbitrary bonuses that are not related to performance and are robbing the public year after year!

The Banks? Guilty. How many years are you going to scapegoat for bad government policies? National debt is run up by government. UK debt is worse than the US. People quote the US because it is astounding large figure, % of GDP other countries are worse. The world is on its last credit card and cannot cover the interest on previous cards.

And don't forget that BIG bank called the Bank of England which is responsible for financial and monetary stability in the UK economy. It is supposed to regulate M3 among other things, and is responsible for maintaining currency confidence partly by NOT printing too much money thereby encouraging imported inflation due to the UK's extremely high propensity to buy imports unlike, say France which has a very low propensity for buying foreign goods.

[HappyDazed]

Economists know Duck all! The so called experts are a joke in all areas of life not just economics. Arrogant know nothings and a pack of arty lovies from the media actually thought they were more important than regular folk and had no idea of the contempt in which they are held. Next Sweden - Holland- France and so on until we regroup as an economic union not a centrally controlled, corrupt unelected, death by beuracracy junta!

Ahem....says the guy who gave the wrong figures and claimed the pound is bouncing back!

My condolences to the Brit expats here on the pound.

It has already started to bounce back.

It has only gone down by one and a half baht to the pound - big deal.

555 ...It's more like a 4-5 baht drop which equates to around a 10% devaluation in 24hrs ...yes, its a big deal!

Edited June 24, 2016 by HappyDazed

[stoli]

The Americans who live in Thailand. The $ is gaining strength against the baht. The stock market will rebound. As far as the DOW, just people making money off of other peoples fear. Typical.

[IMA_FARANG]

Some posters seem to think I dislike the U.K.

That is not true, and and I admire those in the U.K. who actually work for a living.

I have before said on this forum that the U.K "Democracy" was what I called a Ben Dover "Democracy" and I will repeat that statement

Ben Dover democracy means the type Cameroun loves.

Do you understand the meaning of Ben Dover...... drop down and bend over, here is message for you from Belgium.

I said before and I believe it will be proven true that the U.K. can and will do better on it's own than in the EU.

They will do better outside the European Union than in that slowly sinking ship.

Of course, it will cause problems at first.

But you will still be free to make your own destiny by your own efforts....."Mother, please, I would rather do it myself."

Edited June 24, 2016 by IMA_FARANG

[cdnvic]

A post and those quoting it removed for two reasons.

1. Over the top insulting to a nationality.

2. Written like a text message. Please type legibly.

[chicowoodduck]

Yes US stock futures were down. I was surprised that it was not double of what Faux News was showing. The market has been going up on hot air and hot money flowing in and of course that greedy "borrow up to 50% from us" margin money from your friendly (till something goes wrong) broker. The "real" stock market has long disappeared and replaced by the Dow Casino. Place your bets the wheel is spinning. You just better hope that people do not sense a "Black Swan" event in all of this and start selling enmass. Then the margin calls (from your now not so friendly broker) will start coming and the 90% of investors playing with the house's money will have to pony up some of their actual cash as their source of borrowing has called in their marker. World stock market are teetering houses of cards that are waiting for a North wind to come along. Don't be caught like the 3 little pigs with the big bad wolf outside the door of their straw house. PS from the sounds of your article your British and you did not transfer any funds over for a rainy day thinking that the bureaucrats would carry the day.

You sound like you actually know what you are talking about....? I'm sure you are "on call" to many different governments around the world as the voice of reason and sound judgement on just how things should be run? Kind of like the folks who ask for medical advice from TV members? ? Most likely your day job is sitting on a bar stool.....that is where I see all the experts and know it alls in Bangkok and Pattaya and why I stay well clear of all the expat joints......?

[puukao]

Immigration seems to be the Number 1 reason, regardless of financial loss. It's not like the market crashed....Dow up 240 one day and down 600 the next......so NET down say 360 in two days....not crazy fear...BUT BUT let's see next week.....

This also seems to help Trump......

the average person loses a job and needs to blame someone....the media hypes up immigration....and in this case it backfired.

it was an emotional vote, likely the wrong vote for many....and it really, IMO, highlights how racist this world is.....i'm not surprised.

Wait until USA in November

[jacko45k]

Democracy, but give it a chance eh?

[ljd1308]

Since the vote google has reported a massive increase in the search term "what does a eu exit mean for england" from within the UK.

So basically people voted and then have gone on google to find out what they voted for, nothing like a decision made with all the information available.....

[i claudius]

Been watching a lot of the news. I have a feeling many Brits are going to wake up tomorrow morning, bewildered, and asking themselves "What have we done??"

Well i woke up this morning with a song in my heart , ok i wont get as many baht to the pound , big deal , but my country is free from a bunch of snout in the trough freeloaders in Brussels that made up stupid laws and used my country as a cash cow now sing , "oh the sun has got his hat on ,hip hip hip hooray,the sun has got his hat on and is coming out to play"

[mfd101]

Since the vote google has reported a massive increase in the search term "what does a eu exit mean for england" from within the UK.

So basically people voted and then have gone on google to find out what they voted for, nothing like a decision made with all the information available.....

Lack of knowledge never stopped people having strong opinions.

[Jip99]

scotland now has the right for a second referendum which they intend to have we will also loose all the revenue from them also

Life will go on.

Scotland must choose it's own bed partner.

I doubt that the retired Scots will look forward to their pensions being frozen.

[Kiwiken]

Immigration seems to be the Number 1 reason, regardless of financial loss. It's not like the market crashed....Dow up 240 one day and down 600 the next......so NET down say 360 in two days....not crazy fear...BUT BUT let's see next week.....

This also seems to help Trump......

the average person loses a job and needs to blame someone....the media hypes up immigration....and in this case it backfired.

it was an emotional vote, likely the wrong vote for many....and it really, IMO, highlights how racist this world is.....i'm not surprised.

Wait until USA in November

Anti immigration is not always based simply on racism. It is based on real fear that ones job and salary is under attack. Multinationalism and the fall of the Soviet bloc allowed Capitalism to drop its human face. And as a result Employers encourage large scale immigration to keep wages down. The racism you talk of is caused by the fear of this undermining of Our way of life. Sadly the real Enemy is the Multinational Companies and big Business that seeks to Profiteer at Our Expense. In Effect recreating the Serfdom of Days gone by. Think about it

[ljd1308]

Been watching a lot of the news. I have a feeling many Brits are going to wake up tomorrow morning, bewildered, and asking themselves "What have we done??"

Well i woke up this morning with a song in my heart , ok i wont get as many baht to the pound , big deal , but my country is free from a bunch of snout in the trough freeloaders in Brussels that made up stupid laws and used my country as a cash cow now sing , "oh the sun has got his hat on ,hip hip hip hooray,the sun has got his hat on and is coming out to play"

I have heard several people mention being "Free" and making up your own laws, but what was so bad about laws written in Belgium? Is there a particular piece of legislation you are against or just any legislation written outside the UK?

Are UK politicians so honest and trustworthy they are the only ones worthy of writing your laws?

If the EU was headquartered in London, would that make a difference? You would have to refer to the "freeloaders" in London then.

What are the financial reasons you wanted out? Surely you must see that in renegotiating every single trade deal with every single country in the world from a position of weakness cannot be a good thing for the UK?

53% of the UK's exports go to Europe under "free trade", if that is withdrawn how much do you think it will cost? More than the 8.5 billion it currently costs to be a member and take advantage of that?

[ljd1308]

Immigration seems to be the Number 1 reason, regardless of financial loss. It's not like the market crashed....Dow up 240 one day and down 600 the next......so NET down say 360 in two days....not crazy fear...BUT BUT let's see next week.....

This also seems to help Trump......

the average person loses a job and needs to blame someone....the media hypes up immigration....and in this case it backfired.

it was an emotional vote, likely the wrong vote for many....and it really, IMO, highlights how racist this world is.....i'm not surprised.

Wait until USA in November

Anti immigration is not always based simply on racism. It is based on real fear that ones job and salary is under attack. Multinationalism and the fall of the Soviet bloc allowed Capitalism to drop its human face. And as a result Employers encourage large scale immigration to keep wages down. The racism you talk of is caused by the fear of this undermining of Our way of life. Sadly the real Enemy is the Multinational Companies and big Business that seeks to Profiteer at Our Expense. In Effect recreating the Serfdom of Days gone by. Think about it

That is a fair point, however, there will now be a lack of cheap labour(apparently what is wanted by the UK population). There employers will then have to pay more for their employees, it will then cost more money to produce their goods. As it costs more money to produce their goods the prices will then go up.

So the British public will have to pay more for things....Not my problem I am not there and if people want to vote for that, that is their problem.

However, As there will no longer be free trade agreements for British products the country will then have to renegotiate in order to export. In these negotiations Britain will be from a position of weakness(as they dont have all of Europe backing them) so it will cost more the export products.

2 sides then, cost more to produce and cost more to export British goods.

As a business owner though, wouldn't you want to use cheap labour and pay less to export your goods? So wouldn't it be better to be in the EU?

The next logical step for that is to move your business overseas where you can take advantage of cheap labour and free trade agreements which would then mean that the unemployment rate goes up at the same time as the cost of goods has risen.

The only way to avoid this is to devalue the pound so British goods can be exported with minimal change to the cost.

This would be the worst case scenario and it may not get to there but if you follow it makes perfect sense that is where it will end.

[MissAndry]

As a business owner though, wouldn't you want to use cheap labour and pay less to export your goods?

Or you could hire local labour, and have people living nearby that can afford to buy your goods.

[ljd1308]

As a business owner though, wouldn't you want to use cheap labour and pay less to export your goods?

Or you could hire local labour, and have people living nearby that can afford to buy your goods.

Yeah, that could work....if there was no competition whatsoever. You also wouldn't be able to expand your business and would be restricted in your trading because of that.

But when we live in a world where there is competition you will be fighting a losing battle, why would people buy your more expensive products?

[Ace of Pop]

[Kiwiken]

As a business owner though, wouldn't you want to use cheap labour and pay less to export your goods?

Or you could hire local labour, and have people living nearby that can afford to buy your goods.

Yeah, that could work....if there was no competition whatsoever. You also wouldn't be able to expand your business and would be restricted in your trading because of that.

But when we live in a world where there is competition you will be fighting a losing battle, why would people buy your more expensive products?

The sad truth of the cycle is in the end as Western living standards and real wages decline no matter how cheap the labour you have imported or what you have produced off shore in cheap Labour Countries cannot sell if We in the West cannot afford them. We have all benefited by cheaper imported goods. But the problem is with so many of Our own factories going off shore poverty in the West is endemic. Short term Profits actually are putting the nail in the coffin of Capitalism. Afraid we have to find a 3rd way. And adjustment will cause pain and upheaval. Britain is only the first. Wait for the scramble to come

[ljd1308]

As a business owner though, wouldn't you want to use cheap labour and pay less to export your goods?

Or you could hire local labour, and have people living nearby that can afford to buy your goods.

Yeah, that could work....if there was no competition whatsoever. You also wouldn't be able to expand your business and would be restricted in your trading because of that.

But when we live in a world where there is competition you will be fighting a losing battle, why would people buy your more expensive products?

The sad truth of the cycle is in the end as Western living standards and real wages decline no matter how cheap the labour you have imported or what you have produced off shore in cheap Labour Countries cannot sell if We in the West cannot afford them. We have all benefited by cheaper imported goods. But the problem is with so many of Our own factories going off shore poverty in the West is endemic. Short term Profits actually are putting the nail in the coffin of Capitalism. Afraid we have to find a 3rd way. And adjustment will cause pain and upheaval. Britain is only the first. Wait for the scramble to come

You may be right. But if they can't afford cheap products they definitely won't be able to afford more expensive home made products.

Britain is first, the only question is first where? Only time will tell....personally(for reasons I have stated) I don't think it will work, but I have been wrong before......once, many years ago.

[Berkshire]

As a 27 year old Brit, the future of Britain is mine.

Except a load of poorly educated, middle aged racists have made the future oh so more sketchy.

Well done.

As one of the few young Brits on this forum, I feel for you. All the news reports that I have seen indicate that young Brits like yourself voted overwhelmingly to remain. It's the older folks who voted in the other direction. The thing is, it's the young who's going to have to deal with the fallout for much longer. It just doesn't seem fair.