So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[sandyf]

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Oxfam has come up with a theory about the Brexit vote, based solely on wealth distribution figures obtained from Credit Suisse. And this is major news in what way?

 

More condescention in Sandyf's quoted reply. Most of the remainers I come up against are quite infantile in this way. Like I said, it's a comfort blanket for them.

The brexiteers main line of defense, rubbish the messenger.

You will be telling us next that what David Davis says doesn't mean anything.

 

David Davis has admitted the House of Lords could act to scupper full Brexit, but warned peers they would be “unwise” to try and prevent Britain being stripped of its EU membership.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-parliament-may-be-able-to-block-david-davis-a7260251.html

[sandyf]

The UK will not have full access to the EU single market if they don't allow the free movement of people, the Irish Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said.

In an interview with Ireland's Newstalk radio station, Mr Kenny said the European Union would not give into Britain's Brexit demands.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/uk-no-access-to-the-eu-market-if-it-ends-free-movement-enda-kenny-irish-prime-minister-a7239686.html

[AlexRich]

20 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Oxfam has come up with a theory about the Brexit vote, based solely on wealth distribution figures obtained from Credit Suisse. And this is major news in what way?

 

More condescention in Sandyf's quoted reply. Most of the remainers I come up against are quite infantile in this way. Like I said, it's a comfort blanket for them.

 

Modus operandi. Resort to personal slurs or generalise about remainers ... but never address the question.

 

[Khun Han]

9 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The brexiteers main line of defense, rubbish the messenger.

You will be telling us next that what David Davis says doesn't mean anything.

 

David Davis has admitted the House of Lords could act to scupper full Brexit, but warned peers they would be “unwise” to try and prevent Britain being stripped of its EU membership.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-parliament-may-be-able-to-block-david-davis-a7260251.html

 

And a classic example of a remainer changing the subject: God only knows what David Davies' warning to the Upper House has to do with an Oxfam theory about the brexit vote.

[Khun Han]

9 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The UK will not have full access to the EU single market if they don't allow the free movement of people, the Irish Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said.

In an interview with Ireland's Newstalk radio station, Mr Kenny said the European Union would not give into Britain's Brexit demands.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/uk-no-access-to-the-eu-market-if-it-ends-free-movement-enda-kenny-irish-prime-minister-a7239686.html

 

Another one who needs a word in their shell-like from Chancellor Merkel. Everything is on the table, and the sooner the assorted EU minions are up to speed, the better.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Khun Han

[rockingrobin]

 

I dont understand the quote from Sir James Dyson and the hiring of engineers

 

 

"Well, I remember a time before 1973 when we joined the European Union when I was working in France - so before we were in Europe we could go and work in Europe and Europeans could come and work here," he answered.

"I hope that continues to exist. And if it doesn't, it opens the possibility to hire people from outside of Europe.

"We can employ Chinese engineers, Singaporean engineers, American engineers which we can't do at the moment."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37352312

 

Surely if he wishes to hire such engineers and is willing to comply with the work/immigration rules then he can.I fail to see how being out of the EU will change this

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

At the end of the day no one really knows what people actually voted for, strong indications are  that for many it was nothing to do withe question on the ballot paper. Each can put their own view on the result and it would appear that TM thinks that only her interpretation is correct and will try to put a new perspective on parliamentary democracy.

 

The Oxfam view. -  ”Whatever your views on Brexit, the referendum brought divisions within our country to a head, with many people expressing distrust and disconnection with political processes and voting for change in the hope that it would improve their economic position.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/inequality-uk-contributed-to-brexit-oxfam-rich-poor-research-one-per-cent-a7239306.html

 

At the end of the day, we know exactly what people actually voted for - to leave the EU.

 

I agree that there were different reasons for their decision - but nonetheless they voted to leave the EU.

[SgtRock]

There it is in all its glory

 

Quote

Jean-Claude Juncker says the next 12 months are vital to EU unity as he proposes a European military and deeper financial union.

 

Quote

He said: "Far too often national interests are brought to the fore.

"We shouldn't misunderstand this - European integration must not bow to the interests of the nation state. Europe cannot become a colourless melting pot."

 

http://news.sky.com/story/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-to-stick-together-after-brexit-10577421

 

The EU is only capable of one directional change.

 

A change to full Monetary and Political integration in the form of an EU Superstate.

[dick dasterdly]

19 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

 

I dont understand the quote from Sir James Dyson and the hiring of engineers

 

 

"Well, I remember a time before 1973 when we joined the European Union when I was working in France - so before we were in Europe we could go and work in Europe and Europeans could come and work here," he answered.

"I hope that continues to exist. And if it doesn't, it opens the possibility to hire people from outside of Europe.

"We can employ Chinese engineers, Singaporean engineers, American engineers which we can't do at the moment."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37352312

 

Surely if he wishes to hire such engineers and is willing to comply with the work/immigration rules then he can.I fail to see how being out of the EU will change this

I think that's the point.

 

Long before the EU's 'open borders' policy I worked in the Group Strategic Development department of a company with subsidiaries worldwide, and this small department (less than 10 people, including 2 typists and someone for filing/copying etc. ) always had at least one 'highflyer' from the US or Canadian subsidiary on a 2 year secondment.

 

Employing well paid people from foreign countries was never a problem, and its beyond belief to believe it will become a problem if the UK leaves the EU.

[evadgib]

PM meeting with Burmese State Counsellor Aung San Suu Kyi: 13 September 2016

 

UK allocates RM4.85 million Prosperity Fund for projects in Malaysia

 

Chancellor backs British exporters as he steps up business engagement ahead of Autumn Statement

[rockingrobin]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I think that's the point.

 

Long before the EU's 'open borders' policy I worked in the Group Strategic Development department of a company with subsidiaries worldwide, and this small department (less than 10 people, including 2 typists and someone for filing/copying etc. ) always had at least one 'highflyer' from the US or Canadian subsidiary on a 2 year secondment.

 

Employing well paid people from foreign countries was never a problem, and its beyond belief to believe it will become a problem if the UK leaves the EU.

In retrospect I think he is talking about his own companys situation regarding the inability to hire sufficient engineers. In another article he mentions that the UK dont produce enough engineers when compared to other countries and he believes after brexit a global immigration policy could be put in place.I suspect  he hopes the rules and costs to be eased for hiring these  non british engineers

 

[Khun Han]

44 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

There it is in all its glory

 

 

 

http://news.sky.com/story/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-to-stick-together-after-brexit-10577421

 

The EU is only capable of one directional change.

 

A change to full Monetary and Political integration in the form of an EU Superstate.

 

Wow! Just.....wow!!!

 

I think a summons to Berlin is on it's way to somebody. He's been on the pop again.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

Oxfam has come up with a theory about the Brexit vote, based solely on wealth distribution figures obtained from Credit Suisse. And this is major news in what way?

 

More condescention in Sandyf's quoted reply. Most of the remainers I come up against are quite infantile in this way. Like I said, it's a comfort blanket for them.

Admittedly, I didn't read through the whole article or Oxfam report, but the part I've quoted at the end of this post explains why so many no longer trust politicians.

 

Finally being given a yes/no vote on something important - many decided they didn't trust the establishment (i.e. politicians and 'experts' with a vested interest), and instead based their vote on the things they can see happening in their own lives.

 

"The Oxfam report used data from Credit Suisse which showed the richest 10 per cent of the UK population own over half of the country's total wealth (54 per cent) with the top one per cent owning nearly a quarter (23 per cent), whilst the poorest 20 per cent share just 0.8 per cent of the country's wealth between them."

[dick dasterdly]

15 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

In retrospect I think he is talking about his own companys situation regarding the inability to hire sufficient engineers. In another article he mentions that the UK dont produce enough engineers when compared to other countries and he believes after brexit a global immigration policy could be put in place.I suspect  he hopes the rules and costs to be eased for hiring these  non british engineers

 

 I've also worked in an Upper school (before the open borders policy), in a deprived area that had problems recruiting teachers.

 

Consequently, quite a few were employed from abroad - which was a 'pain in the neck' admin. wise - but we didn't have to pay for it, other than the recruiting agency fees and, of course, the teachers' salaries.

[Khun Han]

UK employment is up:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37360153

 

Project Fear warned us there would be an immediate economic slowdown (with Gorgeous George promising an immediate recession budget) if we voted out. Where is it then?

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

UK employment is up:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37360153

 

Project Fear warned us there would be an immediate economic slowdown (with Gorgeous George promising an immediate recession budget) if we voted out. Where is it then?

Osborne's promised emergency budget (hitting pensioners in the event of a Brexit vote) probably helped voters realise that politicians would say anything to support their cause  .

 

With a bit of luck his obvious - and proven lie - will ensure that he never again holds a position of power.

 

But then again, politicians lie all the time and its generally quickly forgotten .

[Khun Han]

Just been reading on the beeb website that Juncker "agonised" over the wording of his latest piece of Euro-fascism. The mind boggles over what he really wanted to say.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Khun Han

[rockingrobin]

2 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

In retrospect I think he is talking about his own companys situation regarding the inability to hire sufficient engineers. In another article he mentions that the UK dont produce enough engineers when compared to other countries and he believes after brexit a global immigration policy could be put in place.I suspect  he hopes the rules and costs to be eased for hiring these  non british engineers

 

 

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 I've also worked in an Upper school (before the open borders policy), in a deprived area that had problems recruiting teachers.

 

Consequently, quite a few were employed from abroad - which was a 'pain in the neck' admin. wise - but we didn't have to pay for it, other than the recruiting agency fees and, of course, the teachers' salaries.

The criteria to sponsor a non eu worker can be  quite onerous

https://www.gov.uk/uk-visa-sponsorship-employers/apply-for-your-licence

[dick dasterdly]

29 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

 

The criteria to sponsor a non eu worker can be  quite onerous

https://www.gov.uk/uk-visa-sponsorship-employers/apply-for-your-licence

For some reason it seems far more difficult than it was back in '06 when 'my' school employed many foreign teachers.

 

Perhaps the agency did all the necessary paperwork, so the school only needed to help them obtain an NI number etc.?

Edited September 14, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

Regardless, its never been very difficult for employers to obtain qualified employees from abroad as per my personal experience.

 

Not to mention the many foreign nurses employed by the NHS.

 

In other words, it was relatively easy to employ foreign employees before the 'open border' policy.

[cumgranosalum]

Why would anyone in their right mind want to destroy this?

 

"Since the European Union has been established, citizens of all the member countries automatically became citizens of European Union. European citizenship is supplementary to national citizenship and affords advantageous rights such as the right to free movement, settlement and employment across the EU. For this reason."

[cumgranosalum]

15 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Regardless, its never been very difficult for employers to obtain qualified employees from abroad as per my personal experience.

 

Not to mention the many foreign nurses employed by the NHS.

 

In other words, it was relatively easy to employ foreign employees before the 'open border' policy.

EH? - you clearly don't employ any foreigners in the UK....or for that matter work abroad yourself.

[SgtRock]

20 hours ago, SgtRock said:

There it is in all its glory

 

 

 

http://news.sky.com/story/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-to-stick-together-after-brexit-10577421

 

The EU is only capable of one directional change.

 

A change to full Monetary and Political integration in the form of an EU Superstate.

 

If anyone is now still under the illusion that a Federal EU Superstate is not the masterplan for the EU.

 

Some more words  of wisdom to shatter your misinformed illusion.

 

Quote

Federalist and chief negotiator of Brexit talks for the Parliament, Guy Verhofstadt said Europe must reinvent itself, and called for more integration. Speaking to the populist politicians he said:

 

Quote

“They all preach one thing: a false sense of security. They believe that with walls and fences we can solve the problem. How (do) you keep terrorists outside your borders? You can only do that with supra-national policies and supra-national instruments in the future.”

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/942953-brexit-fallout-dominates-debate-in-european-parliament/

 

Nothing to do with reinventing itself. Only a speeding up the original plan.

 

[dick dasterdly]

26 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

EH? - you clearly don't employ any foreigners in the UK....or for that matter work abroad yourself.

Read my earlier posts.

 

To repeat - many years ago the company for which I worked, regularly seconded US and Canadian employees for a two year period.  Clearly they didn't find it hard to do so.

 

More recently, the school in which I was employed (I left in '06) recruited many foreign teachers.

 

 

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Read my earlier posts.

 

To repeat - many years ago the company for which I worked, regularly seconded US and Canadian employees for a two year period.  Clearly they didn't find it hard to do so.

 

More recently, the school in which I was employed (I left in '06) recruited many foreign teachers.

 

 

then you know what rubbish you speak - why speak it?

[Khun Han]

Ignore the troll, Dick.

[Khun Han]

Anyway, Juncker has laid out the EU roadmap, and it's a Europe-wide super-state, where the interests of the superstate come before the interests of it's constituent regions (where have I heard that before ). All the arguments about trade, free movement, etc are now moot. You either buy into the EU superstate or you don't. I very very very don't.

[SgtRock]

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Anyway, Juncker has laid out the EU roadmap, and it's a Europe-wide super-state, where the interests of the superstate come before the interests of it's constituent regions (where have I heard that before ). All the arguments about trade, free movement, etc are now moot. You either buy into the EU superstate or you don't. I very very very don't.

 

That is exactly what it boils down to.

[Khun Han]

I wonder which will be the dominant force in the eventual EU superstate? Romania? Greece? The much-loved across Europe (should we somehow remain) UK? Definitely won't be Germany. Absolutely not. Not a chance.....

[sandyf]

On 9/14/2016 at 5:25 PM, Khun Han said:

UK employment is up:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37360153

 

Project Fear warned us there would be an immediate economic slowdown (with Gorgeous George promising an immediate recession budget) if we voted out. Where is it then?

You will see it as soon as the NHS gets the £350 million a week.