Even though we voted for it, a Brexit won't happen in the end. Here's why

[ilostmypassword]

Have you forgotten about the cost increase in imports? The UK is mainly a small island. Don't think it can become self-supporting.

No, because it's a figment of your imagination.

Most imports are priced at what the local market will pay, not how much they cost to make.

I'm completely confident my Tesco Indian Kitchen ready meals will be 2 for 4gbp, price will not vary with currency fluctuations.

I'm absolutely certain my Starbucks Hazelnut and chocolate Frappichino will still be 2gbp at happy hour.

So much for capitalism and the theory of pricing. Apparently an increase in costs doesn't get reflected in an increase in prices. Business just will keep on selling, even if it means a loss, because they're compulsive. And even though they're losing money, their profits will keep on rolling in because of....MAGIC. Just another proof that the real slogan for the Leavers was BREXIT IS MAGIC!

[dick dasterdly]

Have you forgotten about the cost increase in imports? The UK is mainly a small island. Don't think it can become self-supporting.

No, because it's a figment of your imagination.

Most imports are priced at what the local market will pay, not how much they cost to make.

I'm completely confident my Tesco Indian Kitchen ready meals will be 2 for 4gbp, price will not vary with currency fluctuations.

I'm absolutely certain my Starbucks Hazelnut and chocolate Frappichino will still be 2gbp at happy hour.

So much for capitalism and the theory of pricing. Apparently an increase in costs doesn't get reflected in an increase in prices. Business just will keep on selling, even if it means a loss, because they're compulsive. And even though they're losing money, their profits will keep on rolling in because of....MAGIC. Just another proof that the real slogan for the Leavers was BREXIT IS MAGIC!

You're kidding right?

Admittedly I left the UK 10 years ago, but at that time prices for many things were far higher in the UK than in France or the USA.

The 'market' really does charge the price that consumers are prepared to pay .

Another example, I actually enquired of Sainsburys why the price of their premium brand ice-cream had gone up one pound sterling (from one week to the next) to nearly the price of Haagen dazs - and was told that it was because it was v popular.....

[mommysboy]

There is no plan, no one seems to want to commit to a plan..... not so hasty, maybe we will have a plan next year is all i hear...

Sound's good. That's my ideal timeframe.

You see, here's the thing. You want to thumb your noses at the "elite", the "intelligencia", the "informed", the "educated", but when the chips are down, the scum don't have a clue!

Not me. I was Remain. But having been dumped in to this mess I think the 'long game' is best, because I think Brexit is going to create one heck of a financial storm. Even better don't enact Article 50 at all. This referendum is a dud. Bad all round.

Smart I reckon.

[ilostmypassword]

Have you forgotten about the cost increase in imports? The UK is mainly a small island. Don't think it can become self-supporting.

No, because it's a figment of your imagination.

Most imports are priced at what the local market will pay, not how much they cost to make.

I'm completely confident my Tesco Indian Kitchen ready meals will be 2 for 4gbp, price will not vary with currency fluctuations.

I'm absolutely certain my Starbucks Hazelnut and chocolate Frappichino will still be 2gbp at happy hour.

So much for capitalism and the theory of pricing. Apparently an increase in costs doesn't get reflected in an increase in prices. Business just will keep on selling, even if it means a loss, because they're compulsive. And even though they're losing money, their profits will keep on rolling in because of....MAGIC. Just another proof that the real slogan for the Leavers was BREXIT IS MAGIC!

You're kidding right?

Admittedly I left the UK 10 years ago, but at that time prices for many things were far higher in the UK than in France or the USA.

The 'market' really does charge the price that consumers are prepared to pay .

Another example, I actually enquired of Sainsburys why the price of their premium brand ice-cream had gone up one pound sterling (from one week to the next) to nearly the price of Haagen dazs - and was told that it was because it was v popular.....

If in the economy goods bought and sold consisted primarily of inessential luxury goods like Frapppuccinos and Haagen Dazs ice cream that get sold with big profit margins, you might have a point. But since that isn't the case, you don't.

Edited July 3, 2016 by ilostmypassword

[MissAndry]

If in the economy goods bought and sold consisted primarily of inessential luxury goods like Frapppuccinos and Haagen Dazs ice cream that get sold with big profit margins, you might have a point. But since that isn't the case, you don't.

We can find examples to back up our posts, but you can't?

Didn't realize my Tesco Indian kitchen ready meals were luxury items at 2 quid a time, but maybe they are.

Edited July 3, 2016 by MissAndry

[mommysboy]

A weird concept of 'normal people'. Anyway, if the currency declines the price of imports go up and that leads to a rise in the cost of living for products that are imported, thus putting pressure on 'ahem, 'normal people' and their savings. (BTW, note that the term 'normal people' here excludes all those lacking British nationality so presumably for example the Thai spouses of British nationals are not 'normal'). Charming. as is also the presumptuous contempt towards those on the margin.

No they don't, as I have to explain again, most products aren't priced on a 'cost plus' basis.

Because most manufacturers charge 'what the market will stand' on almost everything.

PS.

Normal British men are married to normal British women roughly their own age.

Men who habitually hire prostitutes and marry foreign sex workers half their age are not considered normal by anyone, no matter how twisted one's world view.

I think the term you are making an awful hash of finding is 'conventional'.

[dick dasterdly]

No, because it's a figment of your imagination.

Most imports are priced at what the local market will pay, not how much they cost to make.

I'm completely confident my Tesco Indian Kitchen ready meals will be 2 for 4gbp, price will not vary with currency fluctuations.

I'm absolutely certain my Starbucks Hazelnut and chocolate Frappichino will still be 2gbp at happy hour.

So much for capitalism and the theory of pricing. Apparently an increase in costs doesn't get reflected in an increase in prices. Business just will keep on selling, even if it means a loss, because they're compulsive. And even though they're losing money, their profits will keep on rolling in because of....MAGIC. Just another proof that the real slogan for the Leavers was BREXIT IS MAGIC!

You're kidding right?

Admittedly I left the UK 10 years ago, but at that time prices for many things were far higher in the UK than in France or the USA.

The 'market' really does charge the price that consumers are prepared to pay .

Another example, I actually enquired of Sainsburys why the price of their premium brand ice-cream had gone up one pound sterling (from one week to the next) to nearly the price of Haagen dazs - and was told that it was because it was v popular.....

If in the economy goods bought and sold consisted primarily of inessential luxury goods like Frapppuccinos and Haagen Dazs ice cream that get sold with big profit margins, you might have a point. But since that isn't the case, you don't.

It was just one example.

Better then that you argue the other points I've made about pretty much everything being more expensive in the UK than in France and the US.

Plus, of course, farmers being paid to produce less. Not to mention small UK farmers being taken over by large companies/farmers that know how to claim the EU 'subsidies' that are part of the money paid back to the UK.

[brexiteer]

There is no plan, no one seems to want to commit to a plan..... not so hasty, maybe we will have a plan next year is all i hear...

Sound's good. That's my ideal timeframe.

You see, here's the thing. You want to thumb your noses at the "elite", the "intelligencia", the "informed", the "educated", but when the chips are down, the scum don't have a clue!

Not me. I was Remain. But having been dumped in to this mess I think the 'long game' is best, because I think Brexit is going to create one heck of a financial storm. Even better don't enact Article 50 at all. This referendum is a dud. Bad all round.

Smart I reckon.

you still keep dreaming.

Wake up and smell the reality. Get used to it, get on with it and help make it work.

[MissAndry]

I think the term you are making an awful hash of finding is 'conventional'.

Elderly overweight British men having sex with a Thai woman the size and weight of a 12 year old British child.

Normal/abnormal is my thinking, but you could argue for Conventional/unconventional.

I don't think you would change my mind though.

[ilostmypassword]

If in the economy goods bought and sold consisted primarily of inessential luxury goods like Frapppuccinos and Haagen Dazs ice cream that get sold with big profit margins, you might have a point. But since that isn't the case, you don't.

We can find examples to back up our posts, but you can't?

First of all, your examples aren't even valid except if they come with data. And since the pound has just fallen, price increases takes time to work through the supply chain. But you want a few examples? How about iron, copper, and petroleum? Or anything else traded on commodity markets. Compare their price in pounds today relative to other currencies and in pounds 2 weeks ago compared to other currencies.

Unless you really do believe that there is no such things as free markets and competition and that costs don't enter into pricing. Prove it and you've got a the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics awaiting you. Its monetary value is pretty hefty and should cushion the blow of any pound devaluation. Especially as it isn't denominated in pounds.

What notion are you going to advance next? That the earth is flat?

[MissAndry]

If in the economy goods bought and sold consisted primarily of inessential luxury goods like Frapppuccinos and Haagen Dazs ice cream that get sold with big profit margins, you might have a point. But since that isn't the case, you don't.

We can find examples to back up our posts, but you can't?

First of all, your examples aren't even valid except if they come with data. And since the pound has just fallen, price increases takes time to work through the supply chain. But you want a few examples? How about iron, copper, and petroleum? Or anything else traded on commodity markets. Compare their price in pounds today relative to other currencies and in pounds 2 weeks ago compared to other currencies.

Unless you really do believe that there is no such things as free markets and competition and that costs don't enter into pricing. Prove it and you've got a the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics awaiting you. Its monetary value is pretty hefty and should cushion the blow of any pound devaluation. Especially as it isn't denominated in pounds.

What notion are you going to advance next? That the earth is flat?

Does the UK still use raw materials? I thought everything was manufactured elsewhere in the world (mainly China), with a few items partially assembled in the UK, so they could stick a bogus 'Made in Britain' badge on it. Petrol, such a small part is based on the crude oil price, I don't think the end price is very currency dependent, most of the price is tax.

Find me an item (you were talking imports now raw materials), where the selling price bears any equatable price US/USA/Germany when you change the currencies.

Here's one for you Kindle paperwhite 3g, 179GBP, 189USD, according to your theory it should be 140GBP, but those prices have been the same for 6 months.

Edited July 3, 2016 by MissAndry

[SgtRock]

So much for capitalism and the theory of pricing. Apparently an increase in costs doesn't get reflected in an increase in prices. Business just will keep on selling, even if it means a loss, because they're compulsive. And even though they're losing money, their profits will keep on rolling in because of....MAGIC. Just another proof that the real slogan for the Leavers was BREXIT IS MAGIC!

You're kidding right?

Admittedly I left the UK 10 years ago, but at that time prices for many things were far higher in the UK than in France or the USA.

The 'market' really does charge the price that consumers are prepared to pay .

Another example, I actually enquired of Sainsburys why the price of their premium brand ice-cream had gone up one pound sterling (from one week to the next) to nearly the price of Haagen dazs - and was told that it was because it was v popular.....

If in the economy goods bought and sold consisted primarily of inessential luxury goods like Frapppuccinos and Haagen Dazs ice cream that get sold with big profit margins, you might have a point. But since that isn't the case, you don't.

It was just one example.

Better then that you argue the other points I've made about pretty much everything being more expensive in the UK than in France and the US.

Plus, of course, farmers being paid to produce less. Not to mention small UK farmers being taken over by large companies/farmers that know how to claim the EU 'subsidies' that are part of the money paid back to the UK.

It would appear to me that the days of farmers being paid by the EU to NOT grow produce is over.

So they have about 2 years to cry into their drink of choice, extract their collective fingers and start producing foodstuff for the domestic market.

It must be so difficult to come to terms with the fact that they will actually have to graft for a living.

[ilostmypassword]

If in the economy goods bought and sold consisted primarily of inessential luxury goods like Frapppuccinos and Haagen Dazs ice cream that get sold with big profit margins, you might have a point. But since that isn't the case, you don't.

We can find examples to back up our posts, but you can't?

First of all, your examples aren't even valid except if they come with data. And since the pound has just fallen, price increases takes time to work through the supply chain. But you want a few examples? How about iron, copper, and petroleum? Or anything else traded on commodity markets. Compare their price in pounds today relative to other currencies and in pounds 2 weeks ago compared to other currencies.

Unless you really do believe that there is no such things as free markets and competition and that costs don't enter into pricing. Prove it and you've got a the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics awaiting you. Its monetary value is pretty hefty and should cushion the blow of any pound devaluation. Especially as it isn't denominated in pounds.

What notion are you going to advance next? That the earth is flat?

Does the UK still use raw materials? I thought everything was manufactured elsewhere in the world (mainly China), with a few items partially assembled in the UK, so they could stick a bogus 'Made in Britain' badge on it.

Petrol, such a small part is based on the crude oil price, I don't think the end price is very currency dependent, most of the price is tax.

Whoever paid for the raw materials will be doing it in their currency. If their currency has risen in relation to your currency, then it will cost you more in pounds. They will also be paying their workers in their currency. So to cover that cost they will have to charge you more in pounds. Every expense they incur in their currency will cost you more in your currency.

[dick dasterdly]

Petrol is just another example of how the UK is overcharged - but this time via tax.

The market will bear it? We'll charge it.

[dick dasterdly]

You're kidding right?

Admittedly I left the UK 10 years ago, but at that time prices for many things were far higher in the UK than in France or the USA.

The 'market' really does charge the price that consumers are prepared to pay .

Another example, I actually enquired of Sainsburys why the price of their premium brand ice-cream had gone up one pound sterling (from one week to the next) to nearly the price of Haagen dazs - and was told that it was because it was v popular.....

If in the economy goods bought and sold consisted primarily of inessential luxury goods like Frapppuccinos and Haagen Dazs ice cream that get sold with big profit margins, you might have a point. But since that isn't the case, you don't.

It was just one example.

Better then that you argue the other points I've made about pretty much everything being more expensive in the UK than in France and the US.

Plus, of course, farmers being paid to produce less. Not to mention small UK farmers being taken over by large companies/farmers that know how to claim the EU 'subsidies' that are part of the money paid back to the UK.

It would appear to me that the days of farmers being paid by the EU to NOT grow produce is over.

So they have about 2 years to cry into their drink of choice, extract their collective fingers and start producing foodstuff for the domestic market.

It must be so difficult to come to terms with the fact that they will actually have to graft for a living.

You could well be right. As I said, I'm not an expert on these things.

Even so, I gather most of the small farmers have gone and been taken over by large companies/farmers that knew how to gain the EU subsidies on offer? Part of the UK income from the EU?

Edit, sorry - I'm a bit slow and have just realised that you meant the UK leaving the EU!

Edited July 3, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[mommysboy]

At a grass roots level missandry is right about pricing on quite a few items. The last few years has seen a general oversupply in consumer goods. And the consumer has much less spending power. 'Affordability' is a concept that economic models seem to overlook. Put bluntly. If I want to sell a bicycle, and the buyer only has ten pounds, then unfortunately that's what it is worth. Luckily for me, I can choose not to sell, but producers have the invidious choice of either selling and making a loss, or not selling and going out of business.

It might depend on the type of demand a product enjoys- if something is an essential then it has 'inelastic demand'. These items must be bought, so the supplier will hold out for a higher price. That's the theory anyway.

Edited July 3, 2016 by mommysboy

[MissAndry]

Whoever paid for the raw materials will be doing it in their currency.

My point being raw material account for around 5% of the manufacturing cost, and about 2% of the retail price.

So currency fluctuations are irrelevant to the retail price.

If raw material prices were significant to most manufactured goods, the west wouldn't have overflowing landfill sites.

I'm sorry, but nobody can actually be this stupid (and not vote Brexit).

Edited July 3, 2016 by MissAndry

[mommysboy]

Whoever paid for the raw materials will be doing it in their currency.

My point being raw material account for around 5% of the manufacturing cost, and about 2% of the retail price.

So currency fluctuations are irrelevant to the retail price.

If raw material prices were significant to most manufactured goods, the west wouldn't have overflowing landfill sites.

I'm sorry, but nobody can actually be this stupid (and not vote Brexit).

In making a car in the UK 50-60% of the materials used are imports. This is just one example of course.

I have since acknowleged error for materials read 'materials and components'.

Edited July 3, 2016 by mommysboy

[dick dasterdly]

At a grass roots level missandry is right about pricing on quite a few items. The last few years has seen a general oversupply in consumer goods. And the consumer has much less spending power. 'Affordability' is a concept that economic models seem to overlook. Put bluntly. If I want to sell a bicycle, and the buyer only has ten pounds, then unfortunately that's what it is worth. Luckily for me, I can choose not to sell, but producers have the invidious choice of either selling and making a loss, or not selling and going out of business.

It might depend on the type of demand a product enjoys- if something is an essential then it has 'inelastic demand'. These items must be bought, so the supplier will hold out for a higher price. That's the theory anyway.

Alternatively, they have the choice of increasing the price to what the market will bear. And for some reason the UK consumers have paid OTT for decades.

Edited July 3, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[MissAndry]

In making a car in the UK 50-60% of the materials used are imports. This is just one example of course.

Are you claiming a car retailing at 20kGBP (assembled in the UK) contains 10-12kGBP worth of raw material?

Not to mention the price of raw materials used to manufacture a car have dropped 10-35% in the last 2 years.

(Leading to an overall drop in raw materials price for a car of 24%)

So that should completely offset any Brexit effect for the next 5 years.

Anyone notice a significant drop in new car prices last year?

No, do you think that could be because car prices AREN'T related to manufacturing costs?

Edited July 3, 2016 by MissAndry

[mommysboy]

Missandry. You are a canny shopper that's all. When I'm in the UK I am too. If you are clever enough it is possible to cherry pick all the best bargains, the loss leaders, the promotions, the items where there is a price war.

But you can't make an economic theory out of it.

[dick dasterdly]

Whoever paid for the raw materials will be doing it in their currency.

My point being raw material account for around 5% of the manufacturing cost, and about 2% of the retail price.

So currency fluctuations are irrelevant to the retail price.

If raw material prices were significant to most manufactured goods, the west wouldn't have overflowing landfill sites.

I'm sorry, but nobody can actually be this stupid (and not vote Brexit).

In making a car in the UK 50-60% of the materials used are imports. This is just one example of course.

Again going back a couple of decades, the UK paid far more for cars than pretty much anyone else. Which magazine took this up, and buyers started importing their new cars - until the sellers were told not to sell left-hand drive....

I've no idea whether the same situation still applies - but it again shows how sellers will charge the maximum possible, and fight to stop any alternatives in those more expensive countries.

[MissAndry]

But you can't make an economic theory out of it.

Buy when the price is right, makes sense to me.

Makro last week, CP Smoked bacon, buy 1KG get 0.5Kg free. 300bht for 1.5Kg of smoked bacon (tastes good).

Tesco now, 2 liter of Tipco orange juice 115bht, that's 17% discount (nice and bitter).

Rimping Malee 1 liter fruit Juice, reduced from 69bht to 54bht, 20% discount (too sweet for me).

I'm retired, I like walking around shops, I have plenty of time, and there are always discounts to be had.

Edited July 3, 2016 by MissAndry

[mommysboy]

In making a car in the UK 50-60% of the materials (edited should read :material and ready made components) used are imports. This is just one example of course.

Are you claiming a car retailing at 20kGBP (assembled in the UK) contains 10-12kGBP worth of raw material?

No wrong term, I mean components I think.

The raw materials are just that but a car is not raw materials. A car contains hundreds if not thousands of components. Somebody makes those components. And if they happen to come from abroad, then that goes in to the cost of making the car.

[dick dasterdly]

In making a car in the UK 50-60% of the materials (edited should read :material and ready made components) used are imports. This is just one example of course.

Are you claiming a car retailing at 20kGBP (assembled in the UK) contains 10-12kGBP worth of raw material?

No wrong term, I mean components I think.

The raw materials are just that but a car is not raw materials. A car contains hundreds if not thousands of components. Somebody makes those components. And if they happen to come from abroad, then that goes in to the cost of making the car.

And yet (weirdly) those components were up to 100% more expensive in the UK - hence the up to 100% mark up.

[mommysboy]

But you can't make an economic theory out of it.

Buy when the price is right, makes sense to me.

That is the housewives guide to clever shopping, but it does not apply generally as an economic theory.

Except in as much as it goes under the general title of 'kitchen table economics'.

Edited July 3, 2016 by mommysboy

[dick dasterdly]

Anyway, cars are just another example of how Brit. citizens have been robbed by companies charging the maximum price possible.

[dick dasterdly]

Supermarkets have their 'loss leaders' and way overpriced premium ranges.

Consequently (IMO) they will if necessary reduce the price of the over-priced products slightly before seriously increasing the price of ordinary food items.

[mommysboy]

But you can't make an economic theory out of it.

Buy when the price is right, makes sense to me.

Makro last week, CP Smoked bacon, buy 1KG get 0.5Kg free. 300bht for 1.5Kg of smoked bacon (tastes good).

Tesco now, 2 liter of Tipco orange juice 115bht, that's 17% discount (nice and bitter).

Rimping Malee 1 liter fruit Juice, reduced from 69bht to 54bht, 20% discount (too sweet for me).

I'm retired, I like walking around shops, I have plenty of time, and there are always discounts to be had.

How's Alf by the way (ref to avatar) ?

I guess we know which way he voted?

[MissAndry]

How's Alf by the way (ref to avatar) ?

I guess we know which way he voted?

I divorced him, couldn't stand the right wing conservative, racist, bigotry any more.