Donutz Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 The media reports seem vague ranging from using the 'robot' (remote controled tool) to detonate a nearby explosive that belinged to this shooter or rigging the machine with an explosive. Apparantly no other options such as using gas, flashbangs, tazzering (via remote tool) and so on were an option. I won't sleep any less over this but it would have been nice if the bastard would have seen the inside of a court and be brought to justice. Life without parol would be a much more fitting and severe punishment than a quick death. Would have costed a lot more tax dollars though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 So the guy was convicted, sentenced and executed without even appearing in court. There was absolutely no intent to end the situation with him in custody, its an extrajudicial killing........... That's true. For as long as I can remember, we've had an unwritten law in the U.S.. You kill a cop, the other cops will hunt you down and kill you. I think that's the way it should be. I'd like to know how you folk think the police may have been able to bring this crisis to a different ending? Send him gifts and a letter nicely asking him to stop killing folk and come to the courthouse to see the judge? It always amazes me how anyone with a keyboard becomes a law enforcement expert but on the same hand anyone holding a scalpel isn't instantly a surgeon. 55555 Did you read the post you're reacting to? Never mind, clearly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantomfiddler Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Whatever happened to the Steven Segal Pinkie Chop ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuaBS Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Seems to me, to be the same debate as the ethics of drones, except this time being used by police as opposed to military. Or the president : http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-07/obamas-civilian-drone-death-count-500-higher-us-mass-shootings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest5829 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) Have been reading different reports on this usage. My thought asks why non- lethal force was not the first choice? Stun grenade? Knock out gas? If non-lethal means are not successful, that is when lethal means are considered. These options are exhausted, certainly I want to protect police lives. The other thing that is brought to my mind is that the shooter as a veteran. We do not know if he was mentally affected by his military experiences. It appears he could have used some help. Edited July 9, 2016 by wwest5829 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanukjim Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 IMO they made the right call. Graet tactic Dallas Police. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanukjim Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) Have been reading different reports on this usage. My thought asks why non- lethal force was not the first choice? Stun grenade? Knock out gas? If non-lethal means are not successful, that is when lethal means are considered. These options are exhausted, certainly I want to protect police lives. The other thing that is brought to my mind is that the shooter as a veteran. We do not know if he was mentally affected by his military experiences. It appears he could have used some help. There are a millions of veterans out there today that are NOT killing people.Using the ( Oh poor me ,I was effected by my experiences) is no excuse.This Axxhole was sent home by the army for discipline acts. Edited July 9, 2016 by sanukjim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quandow Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 IMO they made the right call. Absolutely not! That was an American citizen on American soil and should have been guaranteed due process of a fair trial. There were other options available - starve him out, he was cornered with nowhere to go. No water for three days, he would have come out or passed out. This is a dangerous precedent to set, police becoming judge, jury and executioner - Judge Dredd style. What this creep did was heinous and he would have been convicted without a doubt. Next time a cop gets angry about someone failing to signal, will they start calling in drone strikes? Of course this is a ridiculous comparison, but the logic sustains it. NO American should get bombed to death without a trial of their peers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfish Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 IMO they made the right call. Absolutely not! That was an American citizen on American soil and should have been guaranteed due process of a fair trial. There were other options available - starve him out, he was cornered with nowhere to go. No water for three days, he would have come out or passed out. This is a dangerous precedent to set, police becoming judge, jury and executioner - Judge Dredd style. What this creep did was heinous and he would have been convicted without a doubt. Next time a cop gets angry about someone failing to signal, will they start calling in drone strikes? Of course this is a ridiculous comparison, but the logic sustains it. NO American should get bombed to death without a trial of their peers. Starve him out and keep the city in lock down for 7 weeks? And then have copy cat killers take more shots ? complete unrest in a tinder box situation..Thank god it wasn't you in charge..oh yeah I forgot your a zillion miles away safe and comfy cradling a beer in a land of smiles Respect to the cops, fantastic call and sends a powerful message to any copy cat killers...YOU WILL BE DESTROYED!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 IMO they made the right call. Absolutely not! That was an American citizen on American soil and should have been guaranteed due process of a fair trial. There were other options available - starve him out, he was cornered with nowhere to go. No water for three days, he would have come out or passed out. This is a dangerous precedent to set, police becoming judge, jury and executioner - Judge Dredd style. What this creep did was heinous and he would have been convicted without a doubt. Next time a cop gets angry about someone failing to signal, will they start calling in drone strikes? Of course this is a ridiculous comparison, but the logic sustains it. NO American should get bombed to death without a trial of their peers. As you say, a ridiculous comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbalEd Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 If you've already killed four cops and injured many more, then you're fair game to be killed in any way that doesn't harm innocents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Grumpy Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Perhaps they could deploy robots to check Black People's driving licenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usernames Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Perhaps they could deploy robots to check Black People's driving licenses. Should make both sides happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfish Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Perhaps they could deploy robots to check Black People's driving licenses. If they can steal ATM machines they can steal robots. Should be worth a few quid I would think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalf12 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Yea, Robocop is here. What's the ethical problem? Put people at risk instead of robot to make it fair? Silly. There is an argument I guess that the robot could have carried some sort of gas to disable the guy, instead of a lethal explosive. But maybe he had a mask. I would have preferred he be taken alive, because I wanted him on display in a courtroom. But I'll settle for Robocop. Do the American people enjoy paying millions to put a psychotic killer like this guy was on trail and maybe have him walk free? I hope not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrosman Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Robo-cop is coming and if animals wish to hurt the community use all force necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carib Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 One can only wonder what will be next. Bomb a building because a suspect will not come out? Bomb a part of "Da hood" because ...... fill in the blanks. Was this really the only thing they really could have done? Just because someone refuses to talk or will not surrender you bomb that person? Will this be standard procedure from now on? Or just for blacks only? America has taken (police) violence to the next level me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoon Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) Really is a silly topic, trying to discuss Ethics with Americans. The OP seeks to discuss the ethics of killer robots in such situations. However, as has been already pointed out, it was not a robot being neither fully nor semi-autonomous. It was a remotely controlled device. So what is the debate about? The use of remotely controlled devices (rather than human beings) to perform tasks that are SOP in US society? In this case it was not a probe inspecting pipelines, or a machine cutting rock in a mine. It was a device that avoided the risks of placing humans in the line of fire in a situation that, it had been decided, had gone beyond negotiation and required a lethal close assault. Using machines in such situations is just plain "common sense". What is a genuine subject for debate is the reason that this incident occurred in the first place. The alleged disproportionate use of "extra-judicial killing" by US police forces when dealing with non-white individuals, to the extent that it is now SOP. But that was not the subject of the OP. Edited July 9, 2016 by Enoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaihome Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) We have no idea of the actual circumstances except the gunman was "barricaded" on the second floor of a car park. The use of the robot indicates that there was no opportunity for a clear shot by a sniper. I tend to see no ethical difference between a sniper taking him out and the robot. The physical action by the robot operator to set off the bomb is almost identical to pulling the trigger on a rifle. In an ideal world from our living rooms typing away on the Internet it is easy to say the police could or should have waited him out, but I doubt the ending would have been any different no matter how long they waited. At some point the gunman would have likely committed suicide or charged the police line anyway. The bomb could have just as easily disabled him as killed him. Likely he as struck, probably in the head, by pieces of whatever his barricade was when the bomb was exploded on the other side from him. Another deeply damaged human being that took his issues out on other people with a gun. The problem continues to be mental health and the identification of such damaged people. Anything else said about it is just people trying to further their personal political agendas. TH Edited July 9, 2016 by thaihome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 A post containing slurs based on nationality has been removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotherb Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Brilliant idea - but feel sorry for the robot, RIP Here's a lamp you can feel sorry about: https://youtu.be/dBqhIVyfsRg The lamp saved some lives did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpoint Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Should have called Sledge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 All of this is a mater of bad politicians and people are done with rational thinking these guy was a soldier and went fighting for his country he probably had bad vision and thinking he was still at war. So send people to fight a cruel war and you get feed back from them.There is a lot of bureaucratic problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 people who found an ethical problem in this obviously had too much time on their hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotherb Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 RabC said, “There was absolutely no intent to end the situation with him in custody, its (sic) an extrajudicial killing...........” Extrajudicial: That which is done, given, or effected outside the course of regular judicial proceedings. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Extrajudicial Therefore, it is a killing done outside regular judicial proceedings. At some point in time the decision was made to send in a robot to kill the perpetrator. Therein lies the ethical dilemma. However, there is a flipside to that argument. Usernames said, “What's the ethical problem? Put people at risk instead of robot to make it fair?” It seems no doubt they had the real killer, even without legal proceedings; so do you risk another person after you asked the perp to surrender for the umpteenth time? However, f you use a real person instead of a robot, the real person would be faced with the same decision—have the perp drop his weapon and surrender or shoot. Certainly, you would not think our Dallas boys in blue wouldn’t have given the perp one more chance to surrender would you? It is the same, don’t you see—even when you use a robot, it’s still a person who makes the decision and that person is still liable to US law; and no one else needed to get hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamgeorgeallen Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 nothing compared to the hundreds (probably more) people executed by drones every year. due process does not exist. how do they get away with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Grumpy Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Perhaps they could deploy robots to check Black People's driving licenses. If they can steal ATM machines they can steal robots. Should be worth a few quid I would think True, probably not much money left in the banks after the White Man has done them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2u2 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 So the US government targeting civilians with missiles would be okay? Waco Texas siege would now be handled by calling in an Air Strike? The US is devolving into social chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 So the guy was convicted, sentenced and executed without even appearing in court. There was absolutely no intent to end the situation with him in custody, its an extrajudicial killing........... That's true. For as long as I can remember, we've had an unwritten law in the U.S.. You kill a cop, the other cops will hunt you down and kill you. I think that's the way it should be. I'd like to know how you folk think the police may have been able to bring this crisis to a different ending?Send him gifts and a letter nicely asking him to stop killing folk and come to the courthouse to see the judge? It always amazes me how anyone with a keyboard becomes a law enforcement expert but on the same hand anyone holding a scalpel isn't instantly a surgeon. 55555 Did you read the post you're reacting to? Never mind, clearly not. Of course I did. I'm not trying to argue with what he said, just add to it. I tend to 'kind of' agree with his point. If you take a gun and start killing folk that's a bad thing, turn it on the cops that come to protect members of the community and ur stepping it up IMO. I do not agree with what occurred between the other police and the original shooting, there's clearly a problem, isn't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooo Upto Me Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 It is not a robot. It is controlled by a man, if it shoots or explodes it does so because of the input of a man giving permission to do so. The same as pulling a trigger on any weapon, just this weapon can be moved using HD camera's wherever you want it. Still called a robot whether u like it or not, an if it saves a life from these terrorists good for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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