Turkish military says seized control, people take to streets

[dick dasterdly]

I'll be the first to admit that I know little about Turkey, having only been there a few times on holidays a couple of decades ago - and not really following the news.

At that time, Ataturk was close to a god - so its depressing that things have changed so much.

[hansnl]

I'll be the first to admit that I know little about Turkey, having only been there a few times on holidays a couple of decades ago - and not really following the news.

At that time, Ataturk was close to a god - so its depressing that things have changed so much.

Since the 1950's the Islamists in Turkey are "nibbling" away at the secular state.

The Greeks, the Alevis, the Kurds, the Armenians, the Jews, have always been used by both sides to get the blame.

For everything.

The Greeks and Jews were forced out, the Kurds and Alevis have always been maltreated, and we all know what happened to the Armenians, and I don't mean the genocide of 1915.

But, it was always the army that held up Gemak Atatürk's ideas.

Fear of the army always held Erdogan in check, although slowly he succeeded in replacing know opponents in the army, the courts, politics, civil service and the press.

This botched coup, and the way he used his "followers" to suppress it all, is a chapter out of the book of Hitler.

Expect the death penalty again, and a purge of all that oppose Erdogan and his party.

Democratic?

Erdogan?

No, he used democracy to steal the country for his own good and his clique.

Poor Turkey.

[dageurreotype]

The Turkey coup is a staged event by Erdogan in an attempt to gain ultimate power. They don’t secure the president, they don’t secure support of opposition parties, and they don’t secure police or intelligence service.

Correct. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-16/erdogans-counter-coup-begins-turkey-purges-2745-judges-prosecutors-arrests-hundreds

[dick dasterdly]

I'll be the first to admit that I know little about Turkey, having only been there a few times on holidays a couple of decades ago - and not really following the news.

At that time, Ataturk was close to a god - so its depressing that things have changed so much.

Since the 1950's the Islamists in Turkey are "nibbling" away at the secular state.

The Greeks, the Alevis, the Kurds, the Armenians, the Jews, have always been used by both sides to get the blame.

For everything.

The Greeks and Jews were forced out, the Kurds and Alevis have always been maltreated, and we all know what happened to the Armenians, and I don't mean the genocide of 1915.

But, it was always the army that held up Gemak Atatürk's ideas.

Fear of the army always held Erdogan in check, although slowly he succeeded in replacing know opponents in the army, the courts, politics, civil service and the press.

This botched coup, and the way he used his "followers" to suppress it all, is a chapter out of the book of Hitler.

Expect the death penalty again, and a purge of all that oppose Erdogan and his party.

Democratic?

Erdogan?

No, he used democracy to steal the country for his own good and his clique.

Poor Turkey.

I had to check the dates on my 'photo albums to discover that I last visited Turkey in the 90's.

But as I was on holiday, it would have been easy to miss that the population no longer revered Ataturk.

[thaibeachlovers]

He had 2 THOUSAND judges arrested TWO DAYS after the faux coup. That must have been long planned.

I just hope Obama grows a pair and doesn't hand over that guy in the US that Erdogan hates.

If Turkey won't let the US fly out of it's airbase surely Israel can do so, or even Egypt.

[oldsailor35]

Sounds bullshit to me ! If the army were genuinely trying to take control, the first thing they would have done would be to arrest Erdogan, but they did not. I think its all a "scam coup" by Erdogan himself to strengthen his power.

[oldsailor35]

Military firing on the crowds of people now..... https://www.yahoo.com/news/turkey-military-opens-fire-crowds-istanbul-casualties-afp-231159431.html

Looks like Suthep is there advising then !

[oldsailor35]

It's being reported as a 'failed coup' in some places.

I read that a Turkish Fighter jet shot down a military helicopter. Is this a case of different arms of the military fighting each other?

The world has gone mad.

The helicopter was said to be carrying some of the coup leaders.. one of the reasons why the coup faltered..

Right. What a circus.

They should of consulted with the 'thais' on how to run these things

I see that the army are firing on the civilian crowds, so perhaps Suthep is already there !

[hansnl]

He had 2 THOUSAND judges arrested TWO DAYS after the faux coup. That must have been long planned.

I just hope Obama grows a pair and doesn't hand over that guy in the US that Erdogan hates.

If Turkey won't let the US fly out of it's airbase surely Israel can do so, or even Egypt.

And 6000 military.

And 1500 police

And 5000 opponents

More, he is pushing to get the death penalty back.

He is blaming his opponent, the US, and I'd course Israel.

Now, maybe it was a setup by Erdogan?

You think so?

To get rid of all that might be opposed to his bid for dictatorship.

[neverdie]

Sounds bullshit to me ! If the army were genuinely trying to take control, the first thing they would have done would be to arrest Erdogan, but they did not. I think its all a "scam coup" by Erdogan himself to strengthen his power.

Wasn't he in a neighbouring country at the time. I understand he flew into Istanbul , 2 or 3 hrs after it all started. Maybe I'm wrong.

[hawker9000]

He had 2 THOUSAND judges arrested TWO DAYS after the faux coup. That must have been long planned.

I just hope Obama grows a pair and doesn't hand over that guy in the US that Erdogan hates.

If Turkey won't let the US fly out of it's airbase surely Israel can do so, or even Egypt.

Get those tankers ready. It's a long way from Israel to the ISIS besieged areas of Syria & Iraq. Even further from Egypt.

Another mid-East military affairs expert... Why hasn't CNN interviewed you yet?

[Guest]

"BREAKING: John Kerry says Turkey’s NATO membership could be in jeopardy"

So let's see how long it will take for Turkey to decent to the similar situation as Syria currently has.

[muratremix]

Sounds bullshit to me ! If the army were genuinely trying to take control, the first thing they would have done would be to arrest Erdogan, but they did not. I think its all a "scam coup" by Erdogan himself to strengthen his power.

Wasn't he in a neighbouring country at the time. I understand he flew into Istanbul , 2 or 3 hrs after it all started. Maybe I'm wrong.

He was in Marmaris, secure around his 500+ private guard plus special ops police. He fly to Istanbul while hostile F16 fighter jets in Air, which proves it was a fake coup. Coup jet fighters could bring his plane down at any time but they didn't!

[muratremix]

"BREAKING: John Kerry says Turkey’s NATO membership could be in jeopardy"

So let's see how long it will take for Turkey to decent to the similar situation as Syria currently has.

I doubt they'll kick Turkey from Nato, as Turkey has largest standing military force in Europe/Middle East region (against russia).

But if they do, Russia could invade Turkey (maybe they are counting on it?).

[hansnl]

"BREAKING: John Kerry says Turkeys NATO membership could be in jeopardy"

https://twitter.com/intlspectator/status/754997221804748800'>

So let's see how long it will take for Turkey to decent to the similar situation as Syria currently has.

With the unholy peace pipe smoking with Iran going on, the ongoing battle against the Kurds even those fighting against ISIS in Iraq, the constant haranguing of religious minorities inside the borders, the constant backstabbing of opponents of the islamists, my bet is on soon.

If Erdogan can get the death penalty back in force, I am afraid hundreds, if not thousands, will be murdered "legally".

And fleeing of opponents to Europe for those trying to escape the killings, no way they will be safe in Europe, too many of the "disciples" of Erdogan were sent to there already.

[neverdie]

Sounds bullshit to me ! If the army were genuinely trying to take control, the first thing they would have done would be to arrest Erdogan, but they did not. I think its all a "scam coup" by Erdogan himself to strengthen his power.

Wasn't he in a neighbouring country at the time. I understand he flew into Istanbul , 2 or 3 hrs after it all started. Maybe I'm wrong.

He was in Marmaris, secure around his 500+ private guard plus special ops police. He fly to Istanbul while hostile F16 fighter jets in Air, which proves it was a fake coup. Coup jet fighters could bring his plane down at any time but they didn't!

Mmmmm. He did allegedly land into Istanbul right in the middle f it.

It smells, that's for sure.

Could it be the case that he sensed an upcoming coup & decided to 'schedule' it forward to give him an excuse to 'CLEANSE' his military.

Sadam use to regularly clean house to keep his commanders on their toes.

[Guest]

I doubt they'll kick Turkey from Nato, as Turkey has largest standing military force in Europe/Middle East region (against russia).

But if they do, Russia could invade Turkey (maybe they are counting on it?).

This would be a perfect time for Putin to try an small scale offence against Turkey. Maybe drop one military or civilian plane.

The purpose would be to test if NATO protects their own, when two NATO countries are having issues with each other.

[Kiwiken]

I doubt they'll kick Turkey from Nato, as Turkey has largest standing military force in Europe/Middle East region (against russia).

But if they do, Russia could invade Turkey (maybe they are counting on it?).

This would be a perfect time for Putin to try an small scale offence against Turkey. Maybe drop one military or civilian plane.

The purpose would be to test if NATO protects their own, when two NATO countries are having issues with each other.

I believe highly unlikely Russia would attack Turkey unless in league with NATO as unlikely as that seems. The is nothing to be gained for Russia. For them just better to sit back and laugh as the Number 2 biggest Military in NATO devours itself.

[Guest]

I believe highly unlikely Russia would attack Turkey unless in league with NATO as unlikely as that seems. The is nothing to be gained for Russia. For them just better to sit back and laugh as the Number 2 biggest Military in NATO devours itself.

The idea would be that Russia could 'soft test' the Article 5. Not an real act of war, but serious enough incident, which would make Turkey to demand support from NATO. If NATO fails to run to defend Turkey, then the Article 5 is voided and the Baltic countries are ready to be occupied by Russia.

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm

It would be a high risk move, but who knows what Putin is capable of.

[hawker9000]

I doubt they'll kick Turkey from Nato, as Turkey has largest standing military force in Europe/Middle East region (against russia).

But if they do, Russia could invade Turkey (maybe they are counting on it?).

This would be a perfect time for Putin to try an small scale offence against Turkey. Maybe drop one military or civilian plane.

The purpose would be to test if NATO protects their own, when two NATO countries are having issues with each other.

I believe highly unlikely Russia would attack Turkey unless in league with NATO as unlikely as that seems. The is nothing to be gained for Russia. For them just better to sit back and laugh as the Number 2 biggest Military in NATO devours itself.

As it "devours itself"? Lol. OTT BS. Stalin purged his military repeatedly, and certainly weakened it at a particularly critical moment in history, but he ended up with the last laugh on the Nazis. Erdogan is certainly purging, but ridiculous to describe the Turkish military as "devouring itself". What's happening is an autocratic grip is being consolidated, and that's a widely spoken language in that part of the world.

[Kiwiken]

I doubt they'll kick Turkey from Nato, as Turkey has largest standing military force in Europe/Middle East region (against russia).

But if they do, Russia could invade Turkey (maybe they are counting on it?).

This would be a perfect time for Putin to try an small scale offence against Turkey. Maybe drop one military or civilian plane.

The purpose would be to test if NATO protects their own, when two NATO countries are having issues with each other.

I believe highly unlikely Russia would attack Turkey unless in league with NATO as unlikely as that seems. The is nothing to be gained for Russia. For them just better to sit back and laugh as the Number 2 biggest Military in NATO devours itself.

As it "devours itself"? Lol. OTT BS. Stalin purged his military repeatedly, and certainly weakened it at a particularly critical moment in history, but he ended up with the last laugh on the Nazis. Erdogan is certainly purging, but ridiculous to describe the Turkish military as "devouring itself". What's happening is an autocratic grip is being consolidated, and that's a widely spoken language in that part of the world.

I never said the Turkish Military devours itself but that the Regime will have witch hunt after witch hunt. Therefore I mean the Turkish state turns on itself that is far more destructive than a Military purge. Erdogan sees a Gulenist or Kemalist under ever bed.

[hansnl]

Update Turkey.

If anybody doubts this coup was a Erdogan power play, think again.

The purge lists were prepared beforehand and amongst the ones to be purged:

- Military

- Police

- Journalists

- Civilian servants

- Businesspeople

- Political opponents

- Opposing religious figures

And so on

The numbers are reaching 12,000+

[Scott]

I doubt they'll kick Turkey from Nato, as Turkey has largest standing military force in Europe/Middle East region (against russia).

But if they do, Russia could invade Turkey (maybe they are counting on it?).

This would be a perfect time for Putin to try an small scale offence against Turkey. Maybe drop one military or civilian plane.

The purpose would be to test if NATO protects their own, when two NATO countries are having issues with each other.

It's an interesting point, but it would have to be something sustained, not just a military incident. Even at this time, the military is going to defend the country and the military is strong enough to ward of an incident.

The membership in NATO may be in jeopardy, but they are still a member of NATO and the treaties are binding, it's just like the UK being a member of the EU even though they have voted to leave.

Erdogan is a little hard to figure out. I don't know a lot about him, but he appears to be a bit of an egomaniac. The problem is he is getting a taste of power and that will extend to his relations with other countries. This has implications for Syria and other neighboring countries.

[Thaiwine]

Update Turkey.

If anybody doubts this coup was a Erdogan power play, think again.

The purge lists were prepared beforehand and amongst the ones to be purged:

- Military

- Police

- Journalists

- Civilian servants

- Businesspeople

- Political opponents

- Opposing religious figures

And so on

The numbers are reaching 12,000+

Now 8,000 police suspended

( maybe by their nuts )

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36824045

[FinChin67]

Deathpenalty coming no matter what EU says..

Revived Death Penalty in Turkey Would End EU Talks, Germany Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-18/revived-death-penalty-in-turkey-would-end-eu-talks-germany-says

Erdogan moving fast.

[Guest]

It's an interesting point, but it would have to be something sustained, not just a military incident. Even at this time, the military is going to defend the country and the military is strong enough to ward of an incident.

The membership in NATO may be in jeopardy, but they are still a member of NATO and the treaties are binding, it's just like the UK being a member of the EU even though they have voted to leave.

Erdogan is a little hard to figure out. I don't know a lot about him, but he appears to be a bit of an egomaniac. The problem is he is getting a taste of power and that will extend to his relations with other countries. This has implications for Syria and other neighboring countries.

The majority of Turkey's people, wether they have secular or islamistic way of thinking, want to have peace. They want to keep on living the way they have used to live.

They don't want to be part of the people who yell about the religions, nor with the idiots who are currently in power. The idiots, who have the loudest mouths.

I'd say the majority of the Turkey's know what is in stake. They are afraid of the occupations from the neighbouring countries. Iran, Iraq, Egypt and Syria.

They are not afraid of the western powers, but they can't really trust that the west will be able to protect them either. That is what they wish to trust.

[Dumbastheycome]

In Turkey, the military has for a long time been the supporter of a secular and more democratic government.

Erdogan has become the supporter of a wealthy and privalged elite.

I am sure that many of the Turkish university students would not side with Erdogan,

But the businessmen would, they are the ones who are profiting from Erdogan and his wealthy cronies.

We will just to see what develops in the next few hours.

Just for the by the by, I worked in Turkey for 5 years in the 1980's.

However, things have changed since that time.....and not always for the better.

lol. Change the location and a few details such as names and it could be.........?

[JemJem]

As a Turk in Turkey, let me write a bit on all this :

There probably will be lots and lots of analysis of the coup; but the important and sad thing is that a dark chapter in Turkish history has just started.

*Turkey should forget about EU membership. Yes, even before this coup thing, Turkey was YEARS away from joining, and with no guarantee at all; but now ? Let me put it this way. Before this thing, there was maybe a 10 percent chance; but now, maybe only 1 percent; not even that.

*Many squares and streets in Turkey are still filled with (okay; not like a real large number of people; but still, thousands in many locations) Erdogan supporters; with many of them being hardcore Islamist types. Slogans involving 'Allah u akbar' are sadly very common. It is an intimidating, fascist crowd. This mob-madness might last some more days.

*Expect a lot more authoritarian stuff from Erdogan in the coming weeks/months. Death penalty might or might not be reinstated; but expect him to make sure that from soon on, almost all the employees in the army, police, judiciary, mainstream media and academia will be his people.

Expect lots of authoritarian laws etc to be passed in the Parliament.

*He won't tolerate any dissent anywhere.

*Expect him to enable the Presidential system to be installed in Turkey. Mind you, he is already almost like a President-with-full-powers now. So, this would make only a slight change, I think.

*Expect deteriorating relations with many other countries.

*And, most important of all, expect secularism to be dealt even more blows in the coming months/years.

Words can't express how depressed, sad and angry I feel

It's no point analysing the coup, I think; so, I just wanted to let you know what's likely to happen here from now on.

Edited July 18, 2016 by JemJem

[hansnl]

JemJem, how right you are.

Poor Turkey.

Poor people.

[thaibeachlovers]

Sounds bullshit to me ! If the army were genuinely trying to take control, the first thing they would have done would be to arrest Erdogan, but they did not. I think its all a "scam coup" by Erdogan himself to strengthen his power.

Wasn't he in a neighbouring country at the time. I understand he flew into Istanbul , 2 or 3 hrs after it all started. Maybe I'm wrong.

If he set it up, he wouldn't want to be around in case the rebels were able to catch him. Only once he knew it was safe would he return.

If anyone thinks this wasn't a set up to give a reason to eliminate his "enemies" they haven't been paying attention. NO WAY could all those people have been arrested if it hasn't been planned for months.

Meanwhile our "democratic" leaders sit on their hands and do nothing.