TAT hopes to tap into population of rich Germans for tourism

[Jimbo2014]

Old heinze can enjoy the many cultural experiences such as being arrested for playing bridge, ladyboys beatdowns, being randomly p£ss tested, suicide bingo, Chinese shrimp eating contests and of course the old game with a new shine... what time is my pub closing tonight.

[longtom]

A lot of elderly middle class Germans/Austrian/Swiss spend 3-6 months here on Koh Samui and I suppose also Pattaya. They spend quite a lot of money, renting houses (often for the whole year), frequenting small restaurants and Thai food stalls. Many small businesses would have to close without them. Of course that doesn't concern TAT.

[elgordo38]

They only want rich white folk, but the poorest Chinese are welcome.

How's that work then?

If they want rich white folks they better start cleaning up the beaches and fixing infrastructure as rich white folk do recognize a brown turd when it floats by. They always seem to want rich people to come but are never willing to spend money on upgrades till they reach crisis proportions.With TAT its always want want want but not so much on the giving end. Edited July 23, 2016 by elgordo38

[MZurf]

Whose brain child is this?

I don't think it originated in any brain....

[LomSak27]

I think they have big a problem

Germans go wherever they want and likely have been to Thailand at least once. If they are not coming back or making a second trip its because they think somewhere else is better. Good luck in getting them back, I think you have lost em for good That goes for the Swedes too.

Edited July 23, 2016 by LomSak27

[Friendly Stranger]

You wanted mass tourism, and you got it. Chinese, who do not spend in bars and clubs!

Nor other Thai establishments.

[Friendly Stranger]

They only want rich white folk, but the poorest Chinese are welcome.

How's that work then?

Listen miss - the chinese that are coming are not poor, rather their handlers have their packages pretty much set up so only a few, and perhaps not even Thai, businesses see the benefits.

I'll agree that this looks like TAT is trying to save face seeing that the "chosen ones" are not spending and are trying through the back door on getting whitee back without admitting they goofed.

Which nationality will they announce next?

[LomSak27]

TAT has to dance to the tune that is played. A long time ago, the powers thaat be decided to blame things on "westerners" that was back in 97. The Financial crisis could not be the result of non performing loans by locals, and rampant speculation and corruption, NO! it had to be from .... outside evil sources, who wished bad on Thailand.

For the most part they have kept playing that tune because it is always good to have something to blame things on. For many years they grinned and said teflon tourism these people still keep coming back. Now they realize that is not exactly true. But they have no way to change it.

So bring in a different group of tourists - The Chinese. Who are on package tours so spend relatively little in country. Well 'they are who we thought they were', as Denny would say. RIP

[manhood]

Why should rich people either germans or from any other country make THAILAND as their destination:

there is nearly nothing to attract these people: no quality service you really want to pay a lot of money for, no infrastructure beside having a beach!

No exlusive clubs or bars or promenades you love to walk along and enjoy nice drinks or food!

No you have to sit between garbage maybe, smell the motor bikes running along the street ect ect...

So TAT keep on dreaming and bring into your country more chinese who not leave any penny more then they paid for there trip but destroy all the rest of the nice places that are still existing!

TAT planning for the future! A big big hole will raise up!

[Thian]

Do TAT and Rosa Kleb at the Tourism Ministry actually believe that tourists from a certain country or a certain kind of tourist, e.g. ' quality ', will come just because they will it ?

That doesn't matter as long as the Thai believe in those people.

When i tell my german friends about thailand the first thing they ask me is about the Chinese grouptours. All Europeans have heard about the grouptours now and try to avoid them.

[micmichd]

They only want rich white folk, but the poorest Chinese are welcome.

How's that work then?

Easy: Chinese and Germans like ghettos. Fat Germans love walls where they can keep themselves to themselves, too stupid and drunk to notice they're milked like cows. Look at the photo showing a fat German with a Thai lady. Do you think a photo like this would contribute to anyone's image in the world? But Germans - as usual - don't care. Their image is ruined anyway - even in Germany.

[micmichd]

Well how are going to get there weiner snitchulted here with crack down on Thailand main lure?

Is there a translator in the forum?

Don't know but getting "Weiner snitchulted" sounds like it could be painful.

Guess he means "Wiener Schnitzel", some kind of beef cutlet without bones.

[micmichd]

Well how are going to get there weiner snitchulted here with crack down on Thailand main lure?

Is there a translator in the forum?

German <-> English?

[Charly2007]

Wiener Schnitzel???

[dcnx]

You wanted mass tourism, and you got it. Chinese, who do not spend in bars and clubs!

Ever go to China? Their bars and clubs are packed, always. No problems there.

The Chinese come here with money to burn but for some reason Thai and Western style establishments do not attract them. One if these days someone will build something that caters to them and get very rich until they get shut down or burned down, jealous Thai neighbors and all.

[Bender]

Do you remember this German guy who brought his lobster to the pattaya police station for a quality check?

Then good luck if you want to bring rich German people.

German are certainly the most lucid, rational and organized people on earth.

They are not dumb like these cheapskate British

[nausea]

You want high end tourists, then cater to their needs, abolish the duties on imported wine and single malt whisky.

[MaiChai]

Rich germans were probably the first Europeans to holiday in Thailand 30 years ago. TAT might wonder why lots of them no longer do and maybe try to fix the reasons why?

Edited July 24, 2016 by MaiChai

[Thian]

Rich germans were probably the first Europeans to holiday in Thailand 30 years ago. TAT might wonder why lots of them no longer do and maybe try to fix the reasons why?

Because Germans don't like it when everything is unsafe/broken, and nothing works properly. They know much better places to go.

[Thian]

The scam that ruins the Thai image the most (imo) is the "palace is closed sir, come see longtailboat hab special plice now".

When i reported this scam at the reception in the Palace they acted like they couldn't speak english.

We all know to whom this Palace belonged and i really can't understand why they let those scammers ruin it's reputation. It's been going on for decades now, sure they all know about it.

[digibum]

If you are serious about attracting more Western tourists, where do you start? By coordinating policy between the Tourism ministry, and Immigration. You start by offering visas of all sorts, for free, and making it as easy as possible.

Never understood this argument. If they're monied up, why would free visas persuade them? The $200 USD it costs at the Thai consulate in the US is such a minuscule percentage of the total spend on a trip that it seems like a questionable argument.

Sorry, can't compare to German costs here but, for me to fly US to BKK roundtrip, I'm going to spend around $1200 - $1700 depending on a host of factors like departure days, time of the year, etc. So let's call it $1500 and assume a German would pay a comparable amount. Yeah, you could find it cheaper. It could be more expensive. But, this is a monied up German so I'm assuming they travel during high season and don't book a flight with 15 layovers.

Assume a 3 month stay in Thailand (biggest reason to even need a tourist visa). At $100 a night, which is sort of what I would think the price point would be for a monied up German traveler according to TAT standards, that's $9000 in lodging. Even if they get a deal on something down in Pattaya or whatever, $50 has to be the rough minimum for a monied up traveler, which is $4500.

90 days of food, unless they're eating street food, I'm guessing in the neighborhood of $20 a day so $1800. Plus, assuming our monied up German likes him a little beer, say 4 beers a day at 100 baht each, is another $1000 and change for drinks.

None of that includes anything more than sitting around doing anything other than eating and drinking. Assume they travel within Thailand a bit, visit some entertainment venues, or whatever and the prices go up accordingly.

But just that, $1500 Airfare

$4500 - $9000 lodging

$2800 food and drink

That's between $8,800 and $13,300 USD. The $200 visa is 1.5% - 2% of the total cost of the trip.

And none of that is taking into account the fact that the average tourist stay by Europeans in Thailand is 16 days which means they don't even need a visa.

[digibum]

They only want rich white folk, but the poorest Chinese are welcome.

How's that work then?

If they want rich white folks they better start cleaning up the beaches and fixing infrastructure as rich white folk do recognize a brown turd when it floats by. They always seem to want rich people to come but are never willing to spend money on upgrades till they reach crisis proportions.With TAT its always want want want but not so much on the giving end.

It's not just TAT. You can apply that same characterization to nearly any government agency and many individual Thais too.

TAT does take the cake in being completely out of touch. They've been drooling over the $ spent per day figures for tourists in Hong Kong and Singapore for decades now. And they keep announcing that those are the types of tourists they're aiming to bring to Thailand. But they never seem to acknowledge that Thailand is not on par with those places. Nor do they ever announce any initiatives that address the reasons why Thailand is not on par with those places because that would mean admitting failure and fault and . . . well, we know how well that goes over in Thailand. Plus Thailand is the greatest country in the world, with the best culture, and the best food. How can tourists not see this?

Most government announcements of this sort are not necessarily ambitions. They're more like what they go to temple and pray for. Prayers can be totally unrealistic because when you leave it up to god or Buddha to take care of the hard work, the sky is the limit.

[Thian]

If you are serious about attracting more Western tourists, where do you start? By coordinating policy between the Tourism ministry, and Immigration. You start by offering visas of all sorts, for free, and making it as easy as possible.

Never understood this argument. If they're monied up, why would free visas persuade them? The $200 USD it costs at the Thai consulate in the US is such a minuscule percentage of the total spend on a trip that it seems like a questionable argument.

Sorry, can't compare to German costs here but, for me to fly US to BKK roundtrip, I'm going to spend around $1200 - $1700 depending on a host of factors like departure days, time of the year, etc. So let's call it $1500 and assume a German would pay a comparable amount. Yeah, you could find it cheaper. It could be more expensive. But, this is a monied up German so I'm assuming they travel during high season and don't book a flight with 15 layovers.

Assume a 3 month stay in Thailand (biggest reason to even need a tourist visa). At $100 a night, which is sort of what I would think the price point would be for a monied up German traveler according to TAT standards, that's $9000 in lodging. Even if they get a deal on something down in Pattaya or whatever, $50 has to be the rough minimum for a monied up traveler, which is $4500.

90 days of food, unless they're eating street food, I'm guessing in the neighborhood of $20 a day so $1800. Plus, assuming our monied up German likes him a little beer, say 4 beers a day at 100 baht each, is another $1000 and change for drinks.

None of that includes anything more than sitting around doing anything other than eating and drinking. Assume they travel within Thailand a bit, visit some entertainment venues, or whatever and the prices go up accordingly.

But just that, $1500 Airfare

$4500 - $9000 lodging

$2800 food and drink

That's between $8,800 and $13,300 USD. The $200 visa is 1.5% - 2% of the total cost of the trip.

And none of that is taking into account the fact that the average tourist stay by Europeans in Thailand is 16 days which means they don't even need a visa.

Well rich Europeans like to stay in a warm place the whole winter so they sure need visa's for that.

They don't mind applying for a visa but the embassies make it very very hard to apply. One has to bring copies of the bankaccount and not just the saldo but they need them for last months, all printed out.

I think it's offensive to focus on the tourists money all the time like the Thai do. The first thing they ask me in the plane on their immigrationcard is also the yearly salary. They act like salary is the only way to prove you have enough funds to stay in Thailand. Maybe they're thinking W-europeans all would love to live under a bridge in BKK.

[digibum]

The scam that ruins the Thai image the most (imo) is the "palace is closed sir, come see longtailboat hab special plice now".

When i reported this scam at the reception in the Palace they acted like they couldn't speak english.

We all know to whom this Palace belonged and i really can't understand why they let those scammers ruin it's reputation. It's been going on for decades now, sure they all know about it.

I've said it before and I will say it again, Thailand's demise will come from the internet. It used to be that these scammers (as well as the gem and tailor scammers) got at least one free shot at every tourist. Now that nearly every potential tourist has the internet and there are plenty of people who have written volumes about their experiences in Thailand, people know what to expect. Some just choose not to come.

It used to take years for a restaurant, hotel or bar that was poorly run to go out of business because each person had to experience it themselves. Now their demise comes much more rapidly. When some tourist is booking a trip and they can look at reviews from well-known travel review sites, they can avoid a lot of the problems many of us had to experience firsthand before we learned our lesson. They get fewer and fewer customers and eventually have to sell or close up shop.

Of course, there will always be tourists who rent jet skis in Phuket just like there will always be some idiot who sends off thousands of dollars to Nigeria in the hopes of claiming some royal fortune but the number of idiots will steadily decrease and the romance period that people think Thailand is so great and so exotic will be much shorter because they will have seen and heard about it before they ever booked their tickets.

You can see the changes happening slowly everywhere. Look at all the businesses that stood the test of time for one even two decades that suddenly disappeared in the last several years.

[digibum]

Well rich Europeans like to stay in a warm place the whole winter so they sure need visa's for that.

They don't mind applying for a visa but the embassies make it very very hard to apply. One has to bring copies of the bankaccount and not just the saldo but they need them for last months, all printed out.

I think it's offensive to focus on the tourists money all the time like the Thai do. The first thing they ask me in the plane on their immigrationcard is also the yearly salary. They act like salary is the only way to prove you have enough funds to stay in Thailand. Maybe they're thinking W-europeans all would love to live under a bridge in BKK.

Well, TAT's official numbers don't agree with that. Like I said, the average stay for Europeans in 16 days. Most do not need any sort of tourist visa. I can't find any official stats but I would estimate, based on the average stay numbers published by TAT, that less than 10% of the people who depart a plane in Bangkok have or need a 90 day tourist visa.

I mean, last time I worked in the EU, I think you got 22 paid days of vacation per year. 20 or 22, something like that. That really comes out to about a month and some change with weekends. So, most people don't even have 90 or 180 days to just take off on vacation.

Not saying that any of what I said applies to you specifically but I would love to have a monied up German give us their perspective. How often do they stay in Thailand 90 days or more at a time (really, with a multiple-entry, it's really 180 days) and whether or not $200 would make them look elsewhere. Just saying because I suspect that most of the people who complain aren't the target market for this campaign.

As far as your comment about broke W-europeans, they're everywhere. Just because they don't sleep under a bridge doesn't mean the Brit (or German, or Swede, etc) trying to live on $500 or $1000 a month in Thailand doesn't exist. Just do a google search for "live on $500 a month in Thailand" and you'll start to get an idea of how many W-europeans (and Americans, and Aussies, etc) are trying to get on planes to Thailand and sleep under bridges :-)

So, uhm, yeah, it is a valid concern.

And it's not like it's not reciprocal. Try showing up in a lot of countries (outside of the EU) and telling them you want to hang out for six months and have no proof of income. You think Thais have it any easier going to America or Europe?

[Thian]

Well rich Europeans like to stay in a warm place the whole winter so they sure need visa's for that.

They don't mind applying for a visa but the embassies make it very very hard to apply. One has to bring copies of the bankaccount and not just the saldo but they need them for last months, all printed out.

I think it's offensive to focus on the tourists money all the time like the Thai do. The first thing they ask me in the plane on their immigrationcard is also the yearly salary. They act like salary is the only way to prove you have enough funds to stay in Thailand. Maybe they're thinking W-europeans all would love to live under a bridge in BKK.

Well, TAT's official numbers don't agree with that. Like I said, the average stay for Europeans in 16 days. Most do not need any sort of tourist visa. I can't find any official stats but I would estimate, based on the average stay numbers published by TAT, that less than 10% of the people who depart a plane in Bangkok have or need a 90 day tourist visa.

I mean, last time I worked in the EU, I think you got 22 paid days of vacation per year. 20 or 22, something like that. That really comes out to about a month and some change with weekends. So, most people don't even have 90 or 180 days to just take off on vacation.

Not saying that any of what I said applies to you specifically but I would love to have a monied up German give us their perspective. How often do they stay in Thailand 90 days or more at a time (really, with a multiple-entry, it's really 180 days) and whether or not $200 would make them look elsewhere. Just saying because I suspect that most of the people who complain aren't the target market for this campaign.

As far as your comment about broke W-europeans, they're everywhere. Just because they don't sleep under a bridge doesn't mean the Brit (or German, or Swede, etc) trying to live on $500 or $1000 a month in Thailand doesn't exist. Just do a google search for "live on $500 a month in Thailand" and you'll start to get an idea of how many W-europeans (and Americans, and Aussies, etc) are trying to get on planes to Thailand and sleep under bridges :-)

So, uhm, yeah, it is a valid concern.

And it's not like it's not reciprocal. Try showing up in a lot of countries (outside of the EU) and telling them you want to hang out for six months and have no proof of income. You think Thais have it any easier going to America or Europe?

Well the Thai still don't use the review websites for hotels/attractions. When our Thai friends book holidays for all of us they always pick the wrong resorts. If i use the European websites to see reviews it's easy to find a perfect one and have the latest info about construction nextdoors and so.

But i agree that internet is helping a lot in getting much good info, myself i need info from Dutch people because they are very good in complaining and mentioning problems. They are very direct and have no fear to mention anyhting.

Yes they have about 25 holidays and government workers 38 or so but that all doesn't count. The most europeans get homesick after staying from home for more then 2-3 weeks and also the place gets boring after that.

But the retired or folks who need a 1year holiday sure like to stay for a whole winter or year. And not all have their money cash on a bankaccount. I feel very denigrated when i have to show my bankaccount to the Thai embassy even though i have sufficient funds. It's even more annyoing because on their official website they don't mention about showing proof of finance, that has changed this year though.

In my family and group of friends in Europe almost 75% of them have visited thailand for a holiday. They still make fun of everything that went wrong there or how they got scammed. They don't care for the money involved but the fact those scams seemed to be legal there is very funny to them. And the scam at the grand palace is unbelievable rude to the who society, this should be one of the most honoured places i would think.

I also have young backpacker neeces and cousins who have been to Thailand, they stayed at kao sarn road. One left Thailand without her camera (full of pics) and the other got very sick from eating streetfood.

But if Thailand wants the kind of tourists who spend 5000 euro in 2 weeks they sure have to improve the whole country first since those people can choose their destination by a click of the mouse. Who wants to sit in a bus knowing about all the loads of accidents with them? Or in a resort which is taken over by chinese grouptours? Sure they will write that on internet and it will have it's effects.

Thailand should be happy with any tourist they can attract and stop being so arrogant to only go for rich tourists. Would be fun if a rich guy claims his Thai resort because he got electroshocked by faulty wiring. Or even worse if one dies from that and the insurance starts claiming the Thai.

Thailand is at the level of backpackers and not at the level of 5* tourists.

[spidermike007]

They only want rich white folk, but the poorest Chinese are welcome.

How's that work then?

If they want rich white folks they better start cleaning up the beaches and fixing infrastructure as rich white folk do recognize a brown turd when it floats by. They always seem to want rich people to come but are never willing to spend money on upgrades till they reach crisis proportions.With TAT its always want want want but not so much on the giving end.

It's not just TAT. You can apply that same characterization to nearly any government agency and many individual Thais too.

TAT does take the cake in being completely out of touch. They've been drooling over the $ spent per day figures for tourists in Hong Kong and Singapore for decades now. And they keep announcing that those are the types of tourists they're aiming to bring to Thailand. But they never seem to acknowledge that Thailand is not on par with those places. Nor do they ever announce any initiatives that address the reasons why Thailand is not on par with those places because that would mean admitting failure and fault and . . . well, we know how well that goes over in Thailand. Plus Thailand is the greatest country in the world, with the best culture, and the best food. How can tourists not see this?

Most government announcements of this sort are not necessarily ambitions. They're more like what they go to temple and pray for. Prayers can be totally unrealistic because when you leave it up to god or Buddha to take care of the hard work, the sky is the limit.

Very well said. All of what you said is absolute truth. There is absolutely no thought given to addressing the root cause of any problem here. This is especially true, when addressing the problems that plague the tourism industry here, which would be an admission of a lack of perfection, and shortcomings within society. Unless and until Thai culture as a whole, decides to man up, and look itself in the eye, and realize the only way to fix a problem is to look within, there will be no real change, progress or improvement of any significance. That day will come. Will it be within our lifetimes? Or will it be after Thailand's economy drops from #29 in the world (currently, having dropped from #22 just 10 years ago) to #75?

[daveAustin]

If they want folks to spend more, improve quality and offer better value for money. If they want more tourists, simply get the baht somewhere down to a more realistic level.

[spidermike007]

You want high end tourists, then cater to their needs, abolish the duties on imported wine and single malt whisky.

Another concise and brilliant point. The duty on wine here is somewhere between 360% and 450%, depending on your source for info, and who you talk to. I believe that is the highest wine duty on the planet. This country could be enjoying a multi billion dollar industry, that drives tens of billions dollars a year into the government coffers, if they only had the vision to change this to something reasonable, like say 100%. The industry would skyrocket overnight. The five star hotels and the top restaurants could hold world class wine events, and everyone would be happy. Instead a few very, very, very small minded politicians accepted payouts from a few inferior wineries in the country, in exchange for writing "anti farang wine importation" laws into the books. And ever since, the entire industry has been hopelessly depressed. The Thai wineries barely generate any sales, due to the astonishingly inferior quality of their wines. And few wine aficionados drink good wine here, due to the stupid prices. I drink wine back in the US. I collect wine back there. I pay $40 for an astonishingly great bottle of California Pinot Noir. That same bottle here would be $200, or more. Retail. In a restaurant it would be $350 to $400. Who is going to pay that? Hardly anyone. Recently I was in a restaurant called Dr. Frogs in Samui. They were bragging about their house wine. It was Yellow Tail. A slow quality, mass produced Australian wine that sells for around $4 a bottle in the US. It was on the wine list for 1450 baht. I witness this kind of nonsense all the time. Everywhere I go. It is funny. Thailand is so concerned about appearances. Yet, they have no concept how unsophisticated, unrefined, and out of touch, wine policy, and wine sales like this make them look, to the outside world.

So, you reduce duty to 100% and you grow the industry by 1000%. That is triple the current level of duty on imported wine. And what else happens? You generate tens of thousands of jobs, you create specialized knowledge, that is able to attract the rich German, and Western tourists, to a sophisticated destination that appeals to collectors worldwide. And you lock up the senators who passed this legislation to begin with, after you track down the payoffs they were given, to depress the Thai economy. In some parts of the world that is known as a form of treason.

Does anyone think the brilliant tourism minister has ever entertained this thought? Even once? How about the little man?

Edited July 26, 2016 by spidermike007

[spidermike007]

If you are serious about attracting more Western tourists, where do you start? By coordinating policy between the Tourism ministry, and Immigration. You start by offering visas of all sorts, for free, and making it as easy as possible.

Never understood this argument. If they're monied up, why would free visas persuade them? The $200 USD it costs at the Thai consulate in the US is such a minuscule percentage of the total spend on a trip that it seems like a questionable argument.

Sorry, can't compare to German costs here but, for me to fly US to BKK roundtrip, I'm going to spend around $1200 - $1700 depending on a host of factors like departure days, time of the year, etc. So let's call it $1500 and assume a German would pay a comparable amount. Yeah, you could find it cheaper. It could be more expensive. But, this is a monied up German so I'm assuming they travel during high season and don't book a flight with 15 layovers.

Assume a 3 month stay in Thailand (biggest reason to even need a tourist visa). At $100 a night, which is sort of what I would think the price point would be for a monied up German traveler according to TAT standards, that's $9000 in lodging. Even if they get a deal on something down in Pattaya or whatever, $50 has to be the rough minimum for a monied up traveler, which is $4500.

90 days of food, unless they're eating street food, I'm guessing in the neighborhood of $20 a day so $1800. Plus, assuming our monied up German likes him a little beer, say 4 beers a day at 100 baht each, is another $1000 and change for drinks.

None of that includes anything more than sitting around doing anything other than eating and drinking. Assume they travel within Thailand a bit, visit some entertainment venues, or whatever and the prices go up accordingly.

But just that, $1500 Airfare

$4500 - $9000 lodging

$2800 food and drink

That's between $8,800 and $13,300 USD. The $200 visa is 1.5% - 2% of the total cost of the trip.

And none of that is taking into account the fact that the average tourist stay by Europeans in Thailand is 16 days which means they don't even need a visa.

Well rich Europeans like to stay in a warm place the whole winter so they sure need visa's for that.

They don't mind applying for a visa but the embassies make it very very hard to apply. One has to bring copies of the bankaccount and not just the saldo but they need them for last months, all printed out.

I think it's offensive to focus on the tourists money all the time like the Thai do. The first thing they ask me in the plane on their immigrationcard is also the yearly salary. They act like salary is the only way to prove you have enough funds to stay in Thailand. Maybe they're thinking W-europeans all would love to live under a bridge in BKK.

I always refuse to provide salary information on the arrival card. And you are right about the visa. You can apply logic like digibum did. But, it is the hassle, and the general feeling like we are not really wanted over there, that alot of tourists get from these kinds of non visionary policies. It is inane. I have refused to travel to China for years now, over the $250 visa fee. The trip would cost me thousands. But, the visa fee holds me back. It is annoying, and offensive. It is quite easy to just pick another destination. Another example of the extraordinary lack of vision within this government, at every level. Top to bottom.