A place to feel at home but far from home

[MyFrenU]

2 hours ago, Khunyouyouu said:

You are probably under the knowledgeable hands of a plastic surgeon right now, trying to makes you look as closer to a mongoloid as he possibly can, so, sorry to  break the peace of this delicate moment of yours, but i didn't ask you to do it.

Common sense would suggest that the scenario you are suggesting it's just silly 

Wow,racist much?Mongoloid,seriously?

Edited August 3, 2016 by MyFrenU
'Cos I can!

[SoiBiker]

So, given that a high proportion of farang expats are married to Thais, how is this going to work?

 

Do you let them move their wives in too - in which case you don't have farang community, because half your residents are Thai?

 

Or do you exclude them - in which case you just alienated many of your potential customers?

[kannot]

18 hours ago, GuestHouse said:

I suggest sitting in on a Condominium AGM in which most of the participants are 'Farangs' before you launch your idea of a 'Farang Moo Baarn'. 

 

You'll find the lack of cooperation, back stabbing, bickering, crabs-in-a-bucket mindset and extremes of penny-pinching tightfistedness instructive. 

 

 

you could change that to any nationality  though

[Khunyouyouu]

SoiBiker, i think you are misunderstanding the main aim of this.

If you feel that the thai family of a foreigner might alienate you in any ways, look somewhere else.

I'd like to improve the life of expats, not make it worse.

The only things that ideally would be kept out, are the bad habits that are a common feature into so many places, however there are also plenty of expats that are not better than that, so this would also explain why they would feel so comfortable inside a place clearly being messed up....these farangs will needs to be kept out as the plague, they are not contributing to create anything better with their existences and give a really bad reputation to the rest of us, we need to create a better environment where everyone will have to gain from, thais and expats alike, many locals just love our way of life, our food, culture, etc. and might not have had a chance to experience it first hand, to bring up a respectful environment where people take care of what they have around, will create an immediate visual impacts, and as soon as others will see how that attitude can makes their life better off, chances are that they will try to imitate that, as already happening with so many western bad habits that unfortunately have spread around, can you understand of what i am writing about??

[1FinickyOne]

5 hours ago, Khunyouyouu said:

I appreciate your post, however, i personally dislike condos, i think some people need a bit more space and independence, a condominium would never suits me, but i respect people who made that choice, they might be absolutely fine there.

For the problem you mentioned, yes that's something quite common, in a condo you wouldn't really have the opportunity to select people suitable for living close to other people holding similar views, also, as you mentioned, somebody might for whatever reason, feel the need to change, and we know how difficult might be to sell something without incurring into a loss in LOS :))))

So, what could we possibly do to limit that inconvenience?

We are all (presumably) adults here (more or less), and we had the luck to receive an education which enabled us to resolve issues whenever one was arising, why don't we simply go backs on implementing that on the issues we are confronted with? Let's all have an open minded discussion to evaluate what can actually improve our lives by simply making other people life better, it's all a chain.

My personal idea to find a solution to that, would works more or less like this, let's say there are 10 "members", then one has to leave, the remaining ones would refund the leaving member of what he had to originally pay, and all could be start to be happy again, personally i wouldn't think twice into investing part of my savings into something that could give to be a similar guarantee, but what do you think about it? Maybe someone has a better idea? Please share it here

 

Do you think you can find a moo bahn worth of like minded people? And like minded to whom? Sure, the condo presents you with a random sampling of people, but are you going to have a pledging like for a fraternity and a committee to select who can join and who cannot? And then if there is a sale, can it only go through if the new people are approved. I bet you would have trouble finding ten people who might get along over the course of a decade... this is like having a commune. It might work for a short time but is mostly a naive idea... sorry to be negative, but that is positively what I think.

[Khunyouyouu]

1 minute ago, kenk24 said:

 

 

Do you think you can find a moo bahn worth of like minded people?

Definitely! Las Vegas was built on a desert, never forget that, and to assume that we are the only people to think on a certain manner would certainly be somewhat pretentious?

 

And like minded to whom?

Well, if you weren't able to understand it till now, with so many replies, i doubt you might be able to get it by adding anything else to it, try to read it back, (sometime)it might help

 

Sure, the condo presents you with a random sampling of people, but are you going to have a pledging like for a fraternity and a committee to select who can join and who cannot? And then if there is a sale, can it only go through if the new people are approved.

This will be NO CONDO, how do i have to tell you, NO CONDO, try to write it down a hundred times and see if you can remember this little particular.

It will works exactly like that, just as a circle of friends, we have a chat, maybe we hang out together too for sometime, because "why not?" ,so newbies can have a better feeling of what the environment and the people around will really feels like, then if all the parts involved are still interested we can finalize it

 

I bet you would have trouble finding ten people who might get along over the course of a decade... this is like having a commune. It might work for a short time but is mostly a naive idea... sorry to be negative, but that is positively what I think.

Really? :)))

Just ask yourself, if you find a place where everything it's taken care of, without the usual annoyances common into other areas, with a group of people which more or less share the same interests as yours and that you might able to rely to if you might need something, and even more importantly that you can trust, with a guarantee on your investment which can't be really found anywhere else at the moment, with the other "members" ready to taking it over in case you choose to leave, this might be very hard to do for a single person, but surely not for a reasonable number of families, then, with these sorts of lets say "protections", i don't think it would really takes that long to find a new suitable candidate, if any times at all....

So, will you go for the usual kind of "investment", or something like this, where the well being of the people involved it's more important than the moneys being put into it???? 

I would have no doubts whatsoever into what choice i would make, and it shouldn't takes much till anyone else can see the advantages of it either.

 

[Khunyouyouu]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Answer my previous question plus.....Have YOU lived in LOS with farangs and their ladies where you all live close bye.....?

Transam, this will be something different, here you will not simply get to see a place and then money's rules the outcome, potentially leaving you or your neighbors to deal with some "extravagant" individual(s), there will be a vetting process taking place, so you can't really compare these totally different scenarios with each other.

[SoiBiker]

Wow. So you think you'll get to be choosy about your tenants, in a place where the property market is flooded with supply, when your idea is struggling to gain traction even on the forum that exactly represents your target market?

 

Yeah. Good luck with that. 

[MissAndry]

What about all the foreigner wives, a significant percentage are likely to be Thai females that used to be sex workers? That really lowers the tone of a place.

Edited August 3, 2016 by MissAndry

[Khunyouyouu]

SoiBiker, again there are misleading ideas thrown into the forum.

It's NOT "my tenants", everyone should be granted an equal status, this it's not something to make profits from, forget about it.

The reasons why the details of something like this might have a huge impact, are already clear to whoever can read and understand the differences between this and the usual market.

However, there is nothing yet being set in stone, the discussion it's open to everyone which might have something constructive to add, there is always room for improvements to be made.

[sipi]

Can I be on the list? I have some really annoying habits.

[1FinickyOne]

you you - you are describing Utopia - [maybe a Utopia for you only] - - and I think finding a Las Vegas sized utopia is rather impossible, nice idea but many would not call Las Vegas a utopia either... I was just using "condos" as an example of people living together and unable to get along. But you tried to use my words against me... thank you - and so I did the same back to you with Las Vegas... not my idea of utopia. 

 

When marriages of 2 liked minded people rarely last, how are you going to get a moo bahn full of people getting along. I think most reasonable people know that utopias are a great concept... perfect people living in a perfect society - its just that it doesn't work... but thanks for sharing your dream. 

[daveAustin]

I already feel at home by not being at 'home'.

Believe it or not, the worst experiences I've had with neighbours in Thailand is with disrespectful, antisocial farangs. This place has a habit of drawing them in. I would not want to chance it, thanks, and would rather be surrounded by well behaved Thais. 

[gk10002000]

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 8:19 AM, villagefarang said:

Trying to establish yet another farang ghetto where people will feel justified living a segregated life, separate from those annoying locals is a very bad idea in my opinion.  I suspect there aren’t many countries which appreciate this kind of behavior based on the notion that you are somehow superior to the locals.  There is nothing healthy about what you are suggesting.

Here in the USA the more recent and to some extent earlier groups of immigrants had their own communities, little china towns, little Italy, many more muslim oriented areas now than there ever used to be.

[anotheruser]

The OP is not doing a very good job of describing his vision. I actually suggested this sort of idea on another forum and was shot down to pieces. I had a basic plan and a specific property in mind in Cambodia that was sort of ideal. You need to come up with a place and be able to throw out some basic figures of what the prospective residents would have to put in. 

 

The place I had in mind was a guesthouse with 12 bungalows and a bar restaurant at a cost of $60,000. So it would have been very cheap $5,000 a person. I saw in Koh Phayam there is a vacation club that seems to be for Russians that is the same concept. 

 

Is it going to be a rural community and productive or simply a gated community in which only farang are allowed? It is hard to tell whether you want it to be a social experiment, commune or townhouse estate? 

 

Are the people like minded or are they simply foreign? Give an example of the type of property that interests you and that might get people to offer ideas of what could be done there. 

 

 

[NancyL]

This has already been done in several places in Chiang Mai.  In several cases it works out OK, where the houses are high-end with a good management company and the owners are really mostly investors who only come for a few months a year and the rest of the time the homes are rented to people on holiday.  

 

But, in many cases the developer has exploited the "owners" and the foreigners who have "bought" homes discover they don't really own them when they go to sell -- the developer, or land owner really does.  Or more often, their heirs discover their deceased uncle or brother didn't really own his house.  This is for single guys.  Of house, many of the foreign guys in these developments are married to Thai women who are former sex workers and that really brings down the tone of the place.  But, at least the Thai women know how to make sure they have legal title to their property -- unlike the single men.  

 

Much better to rent, either in a moo baan or condo with mixed foreign/Thai population is someone is concerned about some of the issues with needing to be around other foreigners that the OP is outlining.  I rather like the vibe in our condo -- a nice mix of English speaking foreigners, Japanese and Thai people with condo management and staff that takes care of the getting stuff fixed whenever something goes wrong and is a good source of info for basic questions like "where to go, my usual nail salon is closed?"  

[guzzi850m2]

There are a few moo baans around that caters to Scandinavian pensioners which makes sense to me in some cases. They arrange trips to different places, golf and so on. Some of them can't speak any/much English so they normally hang around together anyway so why not. Some of them have Thai GF's/wife's.

 

I live in a moo baan with a mixed crowd, app 60% Thai/Thai couples and the rest male expats with a Thai wife. There is a expat group in the moo baan that meets up once or twice a week for drinking and over the years due to heavy duty arguing during their drinking, some have stopped talking to each other, one has left the village because of that, so basically like small kids in a kinder garden, LOL. They are like old women man, they love to talk about people in the village, they have nothing better to do, I been drinking with them perhaps 10 times over the last +7 years and quickly realized it is not for me, I am a private person and listening to their banter gets old quickly. 

 

I see a Thai doctor in the village casually, his kids plays with my son sometimes, so we talk when the kids plays, a very nice guy.

 

I have one expat friend in the village, we go motor bike riding together, exchange books over a cup of tea, talk work (we have same engineering education), so we have a lot in common.  

 

It's mainly because of safety we live in a moo baan, I am gone app 6 month per year for overseas work so a moo baan is the way to go in our case and Pattaya offer good schooling, shopping, hospitals and other things a family might want/need.      

[Khunyouyouu]

4 hours ago, sipi said:

Can I be on the list? I have some really annoying habits.

Yes you can....on the black one! :)))

 

[JAFO]

On 8/2/2016 at 10:47 PM, Khunyouyouu said:

Ha ha Villagefarang, that really made me laugh, thanks.

I have never suggested that living with people having similar habits and taste, would translate as being "superior" by any means, why would you think that?

Do you also feel that ThaiVisa it's a "farang ghetto", as you describe it?

If so, why would you be here instead of lets say a thai language forum?

I met many people telling me on how they dislike everything that comes from their place of origin, especially the other people as them, and how they would never ever do anything to help a fellow countryman in anything because the deep hatred they have against their similar and how they take pleasure in seeing others getting into troubles, not realizing how it was their very own attitude that put them into that situation into the first place, and how ridiculous they would look to tell this stuff to other westerners in a place that caters almost totally for foreigners......

I for one surely wouldn't want to have anythings to do with such people, luckily there are many others which share similar views to the one i hold, that's why forum as this are really useful, it's a bit as one of those matchmaking places.

Maybe i should put a subtitle on the thread "Thaier than thai please abstain" :))))

 

@khunyouyouu While I understand what your intent is, not all of us westerners here feel threatened by the locals or want to live in what I call a "controlled environment". I suspect older foreigners want to move abroad and are likely anxious about it and for them seeing faces and speaking the same language is probably a comforting feeling but its not as glamorous as it seems. While it may start out nice, neighbors start to have differences and then what? I knew friends that did that in Mexico. It all imploded in less than 1 year.  I am not sure how old you are but if you want to build a westerner retirement community I would advise what you do is establish those people and just travel here on holiday for a specified period of time. Living here might be a significant challenge. 

 

Btw, there are numerous "westerner" moobans all around BKK and in Chaing Mai. In fact I have heard many exist in Khon Kaen and Udon Thani and I dropped by one in Hua Hin. I have been to a few peoples house parties in the BKK locations. Personally I could never live in a community like that. I despised gated communities in the US with 24 hour security. Some how it gives up the perception of a snob and honestly its just a weird environment. 

 

My 2 baht worth.  

[Khunyouyouu]

3 hours ago, kenk24 said:

you you - you are describing Utopia - [maybe a Utopia for you only] - - and I think finding a Las Vegas sized utopia is rather impossible, nice idea but many would not call Las Vegas a utopia either... I was just using "condos" as an example of people living together and unable to get along. But you tried to use my words against me... thank you - and so I did the same back to you with Las Vegas... not my idea of utopia. 

 

When marriages of 2 liked minded people rarely last, how are you going to get a moo bahn full of people getting along. I think most reasonable people know that utopias are a great concept... perfect people living in a perfect society - its just that it doesn't work... but thanks for sharing your dream. 

I am not "using your words against you", you are already doing a good job with that by yourself, what i'm trying to do, it's simply to make you understand that only because you are not doing something, that doesn't mean that it's impossible to do it.

Too many people (way too many), these days are just waiting for someone else to serve them on a silver tray everything they like, without moving a single finger, sorry dear, it doesn't works that way.

You call them "Utopias" , as something that it's impossible to obtain in the real life, may i remind you that many of the things we take for granted today, were at some point being defined just like that, not only from the people having an advantage exploiting other less advantaged people, to let them think that a better living situation for them was something impossible to have, but even from the very people being exploited, and what was true then, it still is today, as these personal contributions can clearly demonstrate....

Nobody it's obliged to take part in the change, but if you are too lazy to do anything, at least have the decency to not come across something from which you too can benefit from.

[Khunyouyouu]

2 hours ago, anotheruser said:

The OP is not doing a very good job of describing his vision. I actually suggested this sort of idea on another forum and was shot down to pieces. I had a basic plan and a specific property in mind in Cambodia that was sort of ideal. You need to come up with a place and be able to throw out some basic figures of what the prospective residents would have to put in. 

 

The place I had in mind was a guesthouse with 12 bungalows and a bar restaurant at a cost of $60,000. So it would have been very cheap $5,000 a person. I saw in Koh Phayam there is a vacation club that seems to be for Russians that is the same concept. 

 

Is it going to be a rural community and productive or simply a gated community in which only farang are allowed? It is hard to tell whether you want it to be a social experiment, commune or townhouse estate? 

 

Are the people like minded or are they simply foreign? Give an example of the type of property that interests you and that might get people to offer ideas of what could be done there. 

 

 

Well, good to know about that AnotherUser, you are just the living proof of what i previously mentioned into another reply on this thread, that to think we are the only people having a certain type of mindset would be pretentious.

So, an open discussion would definitely help to know people with similar ideas.

I am aware of some similar realities taking place around the globe, some of which happily going on from many decades, however, it's no surprise that the mainstream media wouldn't want to make other people to knows that a fairer society it's possible.

I prefer something in Thailand, the foundations of it should be mainly being  "proper people", people with "issues" surely deserve respect and attention but i have no plan to open a clinic, with or without families and pets, a place where others see other individuals as part of an extended family rather than "strangers", i really like "creative" people or elements which in a way or another can contribute in a positive way to the environment around them, as this will affect their personal life too in the end.

Each one of us, has some knowledge which might help others lacking the same skills on some particular field, wouldn't be great to share what we know and learn from others???

There are however many different ways to contribute, no particular knowledge would be really necessary, an open mind is much more needed.

Regarding the costs, yes, that's more or less what i have worked out by myself, for some basic constructions doesn't really takes much money to build up something decent, and it's always possible to do changes whenever the possibility arises

[anotheruser]

You can't really even clearly explain what you want to do. So I am doubtful you would be able to actually organize it. 

[Khunyouyouu]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Op, you have forgotten the Thai part of couples living in this place. Don't think I need say anymore about that.......

And do you honestly think sitting at a table having a chat will reveal the 'true' person as to be acceptable for your project..?

 

I don't fink so....

 

I have a few stories up my sleeve about farang 'sleepers', you know, their hidden problem..

Well Transam, do you think that selling up the property next door to you, without even having seen of heard of whoever it's going to be there would work out any better???

I don't think so.

You are welcome to keep your personal choices tight to a lottery, but i prefer to look into it a bit deeper if you don't mind.

The person taking its own family along, surely will be able to spot an unreasonable attitude before anyone else makes him to notice that, the ones whom usually do not see the troubles arising from some widespread native habits, are the same unwanted characters that usually manage to be even worse than them, and there is no room for them in this, sorry, they should seek help somewhere else.

[ardokano]

On 02/08/2016 at 9:46 PM, SoiBiker said:

Nope. If I wanted to live surrounded by westerners, I wouldn't have moved to Asia.

Weak people adapt. Strong change the world for themselves. If they were all like you people would still be eating bananas on trees.

In Asia as example HK  can westerns society live and    western standarts.

[55Jay]

I think it's a worthwhile concept that would sell quite easily to a narrow but plentiful demographic who've lived and worked in the UK their entire lives, then decide to up sticks for Thailand with their farang wives.  Neat, tidy sois, small, rented homes maintained to a high standard.  Mother trims the shrubs and rose bushes whilst Father enjoys a cup of tea with the morning Bangkok Post.  Fish and chips on Friday, full English on Saturday, Sunday roast lunch at the moo ban pub and grille overlooking the swimming pool. 

 

Mother allows Father out on the lash with the lads once a month for a bit of innocent footie on the telly.  Lovely Jubbly! 

 

 

 

 

 

[Khunyouyouu]

2 hours ago, NancyL said:

This has already been done in several places in Chiang Mai.  In several cases it works out OK, where the houses are high-end with a good management company and the owners are really mostly investors who only come for a few months a year and the rest of the time the homes are rented to people on holiday.  

 

But, in many cases the developer has exploited the "owners" and the foreigners who have "bought" homes discover they don't really own them when they go to sell -- the developer, or land owner really does.  Or more often, their heirs discover their deceased uncle or brother didn't really own his house.  This is for single guys.  Of house, many of the foreign guys in these developments are married to Thai women who are former sex workers and that really brings down the tone of the place.  But, at least the Thai women know how to make sure they have legal title to their property -- unlike the single men.  

 

Much better to rent, either in a moo baan or condo with mixed foreign/Thai population is someone is concerned about some of the issues with needing to be around other foreigners that the OP is outlining.  I rather like the vibe in our condo -- a nice mix of English speaking foreigners, Japanese and Thai people with condo management and staff that takes care of the getting stuff fixed whenever something goes wrong and is a good source of info for basic questions like "where to go, my usual nail salon is closed?"  

I know what you mean, but these kind of projects are mainly for "tourists" and it's not only Thailand that have them, they are almost everywhere and mostly in touristic areas, nothing new really, but let's not forget that those investments are being made for profits, they are commercial activities, NOT something like what i have in mind, it's no surprise that someone has been cheated on those scenarios, this is no tourist's village, more of a commune but with more personal freedom and respect of personal properties, you don't have to share what you are unwilling to share, and if something goes wrong it's not a 1 O 1 matter, everyone will get involved to get the matter sorted asap, because it's in the interest of everyone that things get the best possible outcome, as in a way or another, it will have an impact on them too in either the short or the long run, so, let's act all together.

[ardokano]

Op dono what you want

 But it not be less the cost of living.

 If you want start do it , need investment.

 Example have in Thailand

Russian Village near Pattaya.

700 house.

inside there is almost everything. church, restaurants, kindergarten, many residents do not speak Thai or English. they do not have to. come enjoy a comfortable winter warm weather and the sea for several months. Some live for 4-7 months.

 But IMHO not all foreigner need it. Some come for cheap p..sy and not care about they quality life.

 First  it p...sy, after alcohol. And after all another..

Edited August 4, 2016 by ardokano

[Khunyouyouu]

1 hour ago, guzzi850m2 said:

There are a few moo baans around that caters to Scandinavian pensioners which makes sense to me in some cases. They arrange trips to different places, golf and so on. .

 

 due to heavy duty arguing during their drinking, some have stopped talking to each other, one has left the village because of that, so basically like small kids in a kinder garden, LOL. They are like old women man, they love to talk about people in the village, they have nothing better to do

 

1-  Yes the first part sounds great, surely we could do something like this and even more i would say

 

2- That's because we are still human beings, nobody's perfect, plus i think that we can easily agree on the fact that putting together people randomly, without really having anything in common to share, might greatly increase contrasts.

If they have "nothing better to do", it's possibly because nobody as thought about sharing the "knowledge" that should really matter, chit chats as the one you mentioned are useless and damaging, why people wouldn't instead take the time of teaching others something they excel with??

If you have a technical background as you wrote, surely you hold a whole lot of knowledge that people could learn from, those are the things we should be really be interested on, it's sad that nobody inside the group was really able to channel up other people's interests into the right direction

[JAFO]

I can't see this working at all.  It might work if 4 or 5 couples that had already networked bought up 4 or 5 places next to each other. Having random people connect is like throwing dice.  Most older folks are not that social.  You make it sound as if you would pull in a bunch of older retirees and they would just sit around a bonfire coughing up their life experiences to people who will do nothing with it.  My parents live in a retirement community. My Dad hates it.  My Mom does OK. But I have met the neighbors and good grief. Some are really bad and this would likely happen in this community.  I have heard of numerous westerners here in Thailamd that had friends and are now bitter enemies.  Bad Scenario. Now they are neighbors for life. Plus most of the foreigners drink excessive amounts out of pure boredom.  

 

I personally think your idea is flawed.  You are not considering human dynamics. 

 

Good Luck with it.

 

[Khunyouyouu]

49 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

You can't really even clearly explain what you want to do. So I am doubtful you would be able to actually organize it. 

 

That would explain why you previously failed, you seems to be a bit too impatient and pretend everything to be offered to you as in a buffet or something....sorry, it doesn't works that way, this is a discussion where everyone can suggest a way to make things better, i gave a general idea of it and more contributes are coming up with personal experiences and other real life examples, i am trying to explain with my own words what i think it wouldn't be acceptable, the differences between what it's being quoted and what i think we shouldn't compromise with and the reasons why those particular cases have been unsuccessful, sorry if for you that's not enough, nobody it's obliged to keep reading or takes part on this, but you are welcome if you would like to add something constructive as you already did.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Khunyouyouu