Police: London stabbings that killed US woman not terrorism

[i claudius]

We can go on about this for ever , but mentally ill or a terrorist , if him and his family had not been given the green light to live in Britain ,then this woman would now be alive . I know many will say "but you are an immegrant as well" yes but i get nothing , no benifits i pay my way and support my Thai family , claim nothing .

[RuamRudy]

 

1 minute ago, i claudius said:

We can go on about this for ever , but mentally ill or a terrorist , if him and his family had not been given the green light to live in Britain ,then this woman would now be alive . I know many will say "but you are an immegrant as well" yes but i get nothing , no benifits i pay my way and support my Thai family , claim nothing .

 

What in the way of benefits and tax-payer support did the attacker's family receive?

[i claudius]

11 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

 

What in the way of benefits and tax-payer support did the attacker's family receive?

 

I dont know ,as i did not say they recieved anything , did they ? i was talking about myself as many say "but you are an immigrant 

[manarak]

16 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

In that case, each and every attack on another person can be classified as terrorism. It does, however, water it down somewhat...

 

not quite... maybe actually reading the wikipedia article would help.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, i claudius said:

 

I dont know ,as i did not say they recieved anything , did they ? i was talking about myself as many say "but you are an immigrant 

 

In that case, it is quite possible that they are as self-sufficient in the UK as you are in Thailand, and therefore your argument is no longer valid - unless you think that you deserve special consideration.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been reported and removed.   Please stop bickering and stay on the topic.  

 

[i claudius]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

In that case, it is quite possible that they are as self-sufficient in the UK as you are in Thailand, and therefore your argument is no longer valid - unless you think that you deserve special consideration.

 

Like all people like yourself you just do not want to see , i do not wish to be rude so will leave it at that , but i say again " IF HE AND HIS FAMILY HAD NOT BEEN ALLOWED INTO THE COUNTRY THE WOMAN WOULD STILL BE ALIVE "  is that clear enough ,now twist my words away

one thing ,he went to a school so cost the taxpayer money , my son went to a private school here ,i paid .

Edited August 9, 2016 by i claudius

[nontabury]

 

 

What in the way of benefits and tax-payer support did the attacker's family receive?

That we don't know. Though I suspect they have claimed for many benefits. Eg. Housing benefits, child allowance,rate reduction.Then of course schooling cost,Heath cost etc. There are quite a few more, though they may have been off-set to a certain degree,if his parents are working and paying tax.

RR you would probable be amazed at the amount that is claimable by those taking advantage of the generosity of the British taxpayer,and these benefits are not restricted to immigrants,legal or otherwise.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[RuamRudy]

35 minutes ago, nontabury said:

RR you would probable be amazed at the amount that is claimable by those taking advantage of the generosity of the British taxpayer,and these benefits are not restricted to immigrants,legal or otherwise.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

That I fully agree with you - but I think that is the government's fault. They control the benefits system.

[7by7]

20 hours ago, yogi100 said:

You just read my post and you know exactly what I'm saying so do not try and be smart by putting your own interpretation on it by trying to tell me what I'm saying when I've just written it.

 

And you've been believing what the authorities tell you again!

 

If you are so sure of 'your facts' you and I can conduct an experiment in the form of a wager and you can make yourself a good deal of cash if you've that much faith in whatever statistical organisation you've looked up on the internet. We can conduct our own surveys on bus journeys through Lambeth, Southwark and Lewisham, Tower Hamlets and Newham.

 

For every white person we see in each borough I'll give you a pound and for every non white person we see you give me a pound. Are you up for it?

 

I strongly advise you to do some more research before you decide to take me up on this wager if only for the sake of your finances.

 I will accept that I was wrong in saying that the majority population group of every London borough is white. Poor research on my part, for which I apologise.

 

Of those you list:

• Lambeth; 57.1%
• Southwark; 54.3%
• Lewisham; 53.5%
• Tower Hamlets: 45.2% (the largest group)
• Newham; 29.0% (second behind Asian at 43.5%)

In addition to Tower Hamlets and Newham there are 4 other boroughs with a white population below 50%:

• Brent; 36.3% (the largest group)
• Ealing; 49% (the largest group)
• Harrow; 42.2% (second behind Asian at 42.6%)
• Redbridge; 42.5% (the largest group)

So that's 6 out of 32 London boroughs where the white population is not the majority, and in 4 of those they are still the largest group and in the other 2 the second largest.

 

Still want that wager? Unless we stuck to those 6 boroughs you'd lose. Even in 4 of them there's a good chance that you'd lose; the only way you could be reasonably certain of winning is if we stuck to Brent and/or Newham.

 

Above figures taken from this Wikipedia article, sourced from the 2011 census.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[7by7]

6 hours ago, i claudius said:

 

Like all people like yourself you just do not want to see , i do not wish to be rude so will leave it at that , but i say again " IF HE AND HIS FAMILY HAD NOT BEEN ALLOWED INTO THE COUNTRY THE WOMAN WOULD STILL BE ALIVE "  is that clear enough ,now twist my words away

 

There is, of course, no denying that. But the same can be said of any murder by anyone in a country other than their own.

 

But if you are going to play that card you also have to take into account the many thousands of immigrants or descendants of immigrants working as health professionals in the UK; paramedics, nurses, doctors, consultants, surgeons, and the countless lives they have saved. Not to mention the lives saved by immigrants and the descendants of immigrants working in fire and other emergency services.

 

Not that that is any consolation to Bulhan's victims and their families, of course; nor, before UlyssesG wades in, any excuse for his actions.

[MissAndry]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

But if you are going to play that card you also have to take into account the many thousands of immigrants or descendants of immigrants working as health professionals in the UK; paramedics, nurses, doctors, consultants, surgeons, and the countless lives they have saved. Not to mention the lives saved by immigrants and the descendants of immigrants working in fire and other emergency services.

 

 

If immigrants weren't doing these jobs on the cheap, they would have trained up English people to do the work for a proper wage. Immigrants are just a cheap source of labour for cheap employers, not essential to a country at all.

[ClutchClark]

9 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

 

If immigrants weren't doing these jobs on the cheap, they would have trained up English people to do the work for a proper wage. Immigrants are just a cheap source of labour for cheap employers, not essential to a country at all.

 

Finally somebody gets it.

 

Thanks for a great post.

 

 

[7by7]

38 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

 

If immigrants weren't doing these jobs on the cheap, they would have trained up English people to do the work for a proper wage. Immigrants are just a cheap source of labour for cheap employers, not essential to a country at all.

 

Do you and those who liked your post really believe that the immigrant and descendent of immigrant people, whether they be the pioneering transplant surgeon Professor Sir Magdi Yacoub, a GP, a nurse, a paramedic or even a porter, working in the NHS are merely providing a cheap source of labour for the NHS?

 

That they work for low wages and so English, by which I assume you mean white, people can't afford to live on the wages?

 

Of course, British people, of all ethnic groups, work in the NHS; but there are still major staff shortages which means NHS trusts have to recruit from abroad ; especially in nursing.

 

The acute shortage of qualified nurses in which means NHS trusts have to recruit from abroad is not caused by wages being pushed down by immigrants. It's caused by the government's refusal to provide sufficient nurse training places for British students to make up for natural wastage.

 

80,000 UK students are told they can't train as a nurse: Thousands can't get on courses despite four in five new NHS workers being foreign

Quote

Dr Sarah Wollaston, the chairman of the Health Select Committee, said it was ‘time to deliver’ the workforce the NHS needs and to give thousands of young Britons a chance. The RCN estimates there are 100,000 applicants a year for the 20,000 training places in Britain

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[yogi100]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 I will accept that I was wrong in saying that the majority population group of every London borough is white. Poor research on my part, for which I apologise.

 

Of those you list:

• Lambeth; 57.1%
• Southwark; 54.3%
• Lewisham; 53.5%
• Tower Hamlets: 45.2% (the largest group)
• Newham; 29.0% (second behind Asian at 43.5%)

In addition to Tower Hamlets and Newham there are 4 other boroughs with a white population below 50%:

• Brent; 36.3% (the largest group)
• Ealing; 49% (the largest group)
• Harrow; 42.2% (second behind Asian at 42.6%)
• Redbridge; 42.5% (the largest group)

So that's 6 out of 32 London boroughs where the white population is not the majority, and in 4 of those they are still the largest group and in the other 2 the second largest.

 

Still want that wager? Unless we stuck to those 6 boroughs you'd lose. Even in 4 of them there's a good chance that you'd lose; the only way you could be reasonably certain of winning is if we stuck to Brent and/or Newham.

 

Above figures taken from this Wikipedia article, sourced from the 2011 census.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You bet I still want that wager but you won't turn up even though you constantly refer to races and the playing of cards which gives the impression you're a bit of a gambler. But even if you do you won't want to pay me, you'll literally have to be giving me thousands of pounds so we'll settle up as we go along. You have not even said where you live whereas I have.

 

I know London as I've lived all my life in it. You'll be the third multiculturalist on internet political forums I've made the same bet with to who's swallowed it.

 

We'll go by bus from one side of London to the other, N - S and E - W with us taking turns picking the routes which will take us through many different boroughs and it'll take us a couple of days so bring thousands of pounds. Coins will be too heavy but I'll make sure I have change for your fives, tens and twenties! I suggest we start with the 12 bus at Oxford Circus going South.

 

Your Wikipedia figures were false back in 2011 and they are even more false today 5 years on. Do you believe ANY immigrant actually fills in a census form even if he or she is legal and if they can actually read and write English!

 

I dunno why I'm even discussing this 'cos you won't go through with it.

 

Edit. Full marks to you for admitting your previous errors.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by yogi100
editing

[MissAndry]

46 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Do you and those who liked your post really believe that the immigrant and descendent of immigrant people, whether they be the pioneering transplant surgeon Professor Sir Magdi Yacoub, a GP, a nurse, a paramedic or even a porter, working in the NHS are merely providing a cheap source of labour for the NHS?

 

The acute shortage of qualified nurses in which means NHS trusts have to recruit from abroad is not caused by wages being pushed down by immigrants. It's caused by the government's refusal to provide sufficient nurse training places for British students to make up for natural wastage.

 

It's all part of the same thing, the staff shortages are deliberately created to provide an excuse to recruit immigrants. It's all about control and manipulation of the workers, the workers unions, wages, and working conditions. Without the immigrants, those in charge wouldn't have the control they want.

 

PS Yacoub is a Coptic Christian ...... not a Muslim.

Edited August 9, 2016 by MissAndry

[yogi100]

4 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

 

It's all part of the same thing, the staff shortages are deliberately created to provide an excuse to recruit immigrants. It's all about control and manipulation of the workers, the workers unions, wages, and working conditions. Without the immigrants, those in charge wouldn't have the control they want.

 

It's well known that it's much cheaper to employ  qualified medical staff than to train our own and it gives the multiculturalist credence with the uninformed when he says 'Where would the NHS be without immigrants' without mentioning the denied opportunities of thousands of young Britons whose ambition it has been to become nurses and doctors.

 

3 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

 

It's all part of the same thing, the staff shortages are deliberately created to provide an excuse to recruit immigrants. It's all about control and manipulation of the workers, the workers unions, wages, and working conditions. Without the immigrants, those in charge wouldn't have the control they want.

Quote

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You bet I still want that wager but you won't turn up. If you do you won't pay me, you'll literally have to be giving me thousands of pounds. You have not even said where you live whereas I have. I know London as I've lived all my life in it. You'll be the third multiculturalist I've made the same bet with to welch on the deal!

 

We'll go by bus from one side of London to the other, N - S and E - W with you picking the routes which will take us through many different boroughs and it'll take us a couple of days so bring plenty of pound coins.

 

Your Wikipedia figures were false back in 2011 and they are even more false today

 

 

[Scott]

I believe that people are drifting quite far off-topic.  

 

If you are going to continue with this discussion, please keep it civil.  

[GuestHouse]

7 hours ago, MissAndry said:

 

If immigrants weren't doing these jobs on the cheap, they would have trained up English people to do the work for a proper wage. Immigrants are just a cheap source of labour for cheap employers, not essential to a country at all.

 

I've recruited three immigrants to jobs in the UK, all engineers, all earning between 3 and 5 times the national average wage. 

 

I would not claim these to be entirely representative of immigrants (though they are representative of the hundreds of professional immigrants I know) and they are evidence that your sweeping generalisation is just that a sweeping generalisation. 

 

Your argument that the UK would train locals for jobs if immigrants were not doing them is true in some but by no means all cases, you first need to demonstrate that the hardcore unemployed in the UK are actually looking for work.

 

I personally know a number of immigrant Thai wives, married to British men, who on arriving to settle in the UK have found work within only a matter of days of arrival, I know of a couple of Thai wives of British men in the UK who have found several jobs. They all live in towns in which there is unemployment.

 

Did these women steal jobs from Brits desperate to demonstrate their work ethic, or did they get up off their backsides and go looking for work?

 

[MissAndry]

2 hours ago, GuestHouse said:

 

Your argument that the UK would train locals for jobs if immigrants were not doing them is true in some but by no means all cases, you first need to demonstrate that the hardcore unemployed in the UK are actually looking for work.

 

 

The hardcore unemployed are what they are and nothing to do with the discussion. These people's only normal purpose is as cannon fodder during wars.

[yogi100]

3 hours ago, GuestHouse said:

 

I've recruited three immigrants to jobs in the UK, all engineers, all earning between 3 and 5 times the national average wage. 

 

I would not claim these to be entirely representative of immigrants (though they are representative of the hundreds of professional immigrants I know) and they are evidence that your sweeping generalisation is just that a sweeping generalisation. 

 

Your argument that the UK would train locals for jobs if immigrants were not doing them is true in some but by no means all cases, you first need to demonstrate that the hardcore unemployed in the UK are actually looking for work.

 

I personally know a number of immigrant Thai wives, married to British men, who on arriving to settle in the UK have found work within only a matter of days of arrival, I know of a couple of Thai wives of British men in the UK who have found several jobs. They all live in towns in which there is unemployment.

 

Did these women steal jobs from Brits desperate to demonstrate their work ethic, or did they get up off their backsides and go looking for work?

 

 

We all know British people who have become workshy and lost their work ethic because of the ease with which benefits can be accessed and those of us who have had to enter benefits or housing offices have seen how they are inundated with gimmegrants.

 

Welfare must be made harder to obtain and priority given to our own people regarding employment opportunities. British manual workers are getting fed up with wages that some of them were getting 10 - 15 years ago. They are also getting fed up with the negative aspects of globalisation as was demonstrated on the 23rd June.

 

Incidentally you must be a remarkably high flying, capable and busy fellow having recruited these foreign engineers at their fantasic salaries to say nothing of the hundreds of professional immigrants you've managed to make the acquaintance of. Then you also know all these equally industrious Thai wives in various towns throughout the UK.

 

How you find the time and energy to meet and deal with all these fine people as well as contributing nearly 10,000 posts to this forum is truly amazing. If every Englishman was as hard working and as energetic as you appear to be the UK would be in a much better state that it finds itself in today. If that's the case I must certainly take my hat off to you!

 

While many of us express outrage about an elderly lady getting killed and five people getting stabbed in one incident in the centre of our capital city at the hands of a Muslim immigrant you can tell us of the positive contributions hundreds of other immigrants have made to our society. That's a positive attitude in anybody's book!

[johna]

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Do you and those who liked your post really believe that the immigrant and descendent of immigrant people, whether they be the pioneering transplant surgeon Professor Sir Magdi Yacoub, a GP, a nurse, a paramedic or even a porter, working in the NHS are merely providing a cheap source of labour for the NHS?

 

That they work for low wages and so English, by which I assume you mean white, people can't afford to live on the wages?

 

Of course, British people, of all ethnic groups, work in the NHS; but there are still major staff shortages which means NHS trusts have to recruit from abroad ; especially in nursing.

 

The acute shortage of qualified nurses in which means NHS trusts have to recruit from abroad is not caused by wages being pushed down by immigrants. It's caused by the government's refusal to provide sufficient nurse training places for British students to make up for natural wastage.

 

80,000 UK students are told they can't train as a nurse: Thousands can't get on courses despite four in five new NHS workers being foreign

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kinda like the question does the chicken come before the egg, its cheaper to import qualified medical staff than to train your own people, so the question is, is this government policy.

[GuestHouse]

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

 

We all know British people who have become workshy and lost their work ethic because of the ease with which benefits can be accessed and those of us who have had to enter benefits or housing offices have seen how they are inundated with gimmegrants.

 

Welfare must be made harder to obtain and priority given to our own people regarding employment opportunities. British manual workers are getting fed up with wages that some of them were getting 10 - 15 years ago. They are also getting fed up with the negative aspects of globalisation as was demonstrated on the 23rd June.

 

Incidentally you must be a remarkably high flying, capable and busy fellow having recruited these foreign engineers at their fantasic salaries to say nothing of the hundreds of professional immigrants you've managed to make the acquaintance of. Then you also know all these equally industrious Thai wives in various towns throughout the UK.

 

How you find the time and energy to meet and deal with all these fine people as well as contributing nearly 10,000 posts to this forum is truly amazing. If every Englishman was as hard working and as energetic as you appear to be the UK would be in a much better state that it finds itself in today. If that's the case I must certainly take my hat off to you!

 

While many of us express outrage about an elderly lady getting killed and five people getting stabbed in one incident in the centre of our capital city at the hands of a Muslim immigrant you can tell us of the positive contributions hundreds of other immigrants have made to our society. That's a positive attitude in anybody's book!

 

I'm glad you raised the issue of what you say is a need to curb/reduce welfare - We might come back to this at sometime in the future and ask 'Who is it that receives all welfare, the individuals themselves, the companies employing people on low wages that need to be subsidised by welfare or the Buy to Let landlords making profits from welfare housing payments?'

 

There's nothing remarkably high flying about working in an industry that employs professionals earning 3 to 5 times the national average wage, those working in the financial services industry would scoff at such incomes as being near poverty, a fraction of annual bonuses to many. 

Nor indeed is there anything remarkable about finding large numbers of professional immigrants working in a multinational professional services company within a multinational business. 

 

As for my post count, yours will eventually get there, if like me you hang around long enough, don't break the forum rules and don't get banned for doing so. But thanks for the reminder of my count, my 10,000'th post looms ... I perhaps need to think about making it something special. 

 

If you send me your CV, I'll give it the once over, you might have the qualifications and experience for one of those 'remarkably high flying' jobs. We get a bonus if we recruit people the company are looking for. :-)

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

I'm glad you raised the issue of what you say is a need to curb/reduce welfare - We might come back to this at sometime in the future and ask 'Who is it that receives all welfare, the individuals themselves, the companies employing people on low wages that need to be subsidised by welfare or the Buy to Let landlords making profits from welfare housing payments?'

 

There's nothing remarkably high flying about working in an industry that employs professionals earning 3 to 5 times the national average wage, those working in the financial services industry would scoff at such incomes as being near poverty, a fraction of annual bonuses to many. 

Nor indeed is there anything remarkable about finding large numbers of professional immigrants working in a multinational professional services company within a multinational business. 

 

As for my post count, yours will eventually get there, if like me you hang around long enough, don't break the forum rules and don't get banned for doing so. But thanks for the reminder of my count, my 10,000'th post looms ... I perhaps need to think about making it something special. 

 

If you send me your CV, I'll give it the once over, you might have the qualifications and experience for one of those 'remarkably high flying' jobs. We get a bonus if we recruit people the company are looking for. :-)

 

It is so frutrating that so many people, like the OP, swallow this lie that the British public is workshy and addicted to benefits, while at the same time, the same people (assuming they are tax payers) happily subsidise multi-billion pound businesses to hire people on minimum wage, zero hour contracts etc. People like the OP are a godsend to the capitalists (and I use this word not in the Morning Star sense but to differentiate between us and them) who finance a few series of Benefits Street, sponsor those regular reports in the Daily Mail about welfare mothers with 25 kids and a 10 bed mansion on the taxpayer, but they never seem to identify that the reason people are on benefits is because we are willingly allowing our government to give their rich friends our cash and our resources. We are sleepwalking into some dystopian nightmare where even to voice dissent gets you arrested under anti-terrorism laws. We, the people, created the rod that is suppressing us.

[i claudius]

I know it is of little relevance ,but when i was younger , if you were out of work you got the bare minimum , you just about survived , so you HAD to go and get a job , if you had kids and were not married you were in the sh-t , about 20 years ago i was not working for a time , my mortgage was paid i had enough money to live ok , to be honest if i had been so inclined i need nor bothered to ever work again , so we can see why so many don't bother , and why immigrants come to the UK ,its a nice easy life if your lazy .

[7by7]

19 hours ago, yogi100 said:

 

<snip>

Your Wikipedia figures were false back in 2011 and they are even more false today 5 years on. Do you believe ANY immigrant actually fills in a census form even if he or she is legal and if they can actually read and write English!

 

 It seems denial is not just a river in Egypt!

 

The figures are not mine, nor are they Wikipedia's, there are from the Office of National Statistics and come from the 2011 census; as both I and Wikipedia made clear.

 

By 'immigrant' I am assuming you mean any person who is not white.

 

The following comes from an ONS response to a FoI request

Quote

1. The 2011 Census England and Wales person response rate is the number of usual residents for whom individual details were provided on a returned questionnaire divided by the census estimate of the number of usual residents - 52,638,800 divided by 56,075,900 = 94 per cent.

56,075,900 - 52,638,800 = 3,437,100.

 

As the ONS response says, one reason forms were not returned was because the properties they were addressed to were empty, or even demolished. But let's ignore that.

 

So, as you seem to be saying that you believe non white people would not have completed their census form, you must also believe that in 2011 there were only just under 3.5 million non white people in the whole of England and Wales!

 

Well, the census results showed just over 7.7 million living in England and the results for Wales showed 135,203.

 

So even if all the forms not returned were sent to non white people (which is not the case) more than half of those sent to those groups were still returned.

 

Yes, the figures are now 5 years old, and people do move into and out of areas, people die and are born; but they are the latest and most accurate figures we have until the next census in 2021.

 

Your comment "if they can actually read and write English" shows exactly where you are coming from.

 

The majority of non white people living in the UK were born and went to school here; as were their parents and in many cases their grandparents. You probably hate the concept and wont accept it; but they are not immigrants, they are as British as you and I. Many may be bilingual, but those who are also speak, read and write English (or possibly Welsh).  Many immigrants came from Anglophone countries, many more from countries where English is a second language; they could speak English before they came.

 

I accept that there are some among the older generation of immigrants, especially from South Asia, who still cannot speak English even though they have lived here for many years; and that is a shame and a scandal. But they live with family who can speak, read and write English.

 

This has also been addressed (at last) by the requirement, introduced about 10 years ago if memory serves, for all those applying to settle in the UK to pass an oral English test, of increasing difficulty, at each of the three application stages and the LitUK test for the final stage, ILR. The LitUK test is taken on a computer so no writing is involved, but it still requires the candidate to be able to read English.

 

I haven't forgotten your wager; but this post is getting rather long so I'll address that in another.

 

 

[7by7]

Ok, yogi; your wager.

 

Until early 2014 I worked for a traffic survey company (I can prove it if you don't believe me) and during my time there conducted many pedestrian surveys. Although I don't recall any client asking us to categorise people by race; age groups, yes; race, no.

 

I can assure that achieving anywhere near an accurate result from a moving bus is impossible.

 

Each of us carrying a bag of pound coins and exchanging one every time someone passes is ridiculous

 

So I propose the following:

 

1) We pick a spot with a high pedestrian density, a spot where people from all over London come to and conduct either a flow survey, counting people who pass us, or a footfall survey, counting people who enter a particular location such as a shopping centre.

 

2) We do a paper count at the end of which we total up and the loser pays the winner; taking the money from the nearest ATM if required. In addition the loser also pays the winner their out of pocket expenses; i.e. travel and a meal.

 

To minimise error, deliberate or not, we each do our own count and at the end take the average of each figure to determine the winner.

 

3) I have a life, job, wife, family, friends; so have no desire to devote too much time to this. I am willing to devote a day to it, though. As I work during the week and as my wife works three Saturdays out of four, I am only available to do this on a Saturday when she is working.

 

However, I do not have a spare Saturday in August and will be in Thailand for most of September, so will not be available to do this until October at the earliest. Which is not a bad thing, really, as it will help the figures being effected by tourists somewhat.

 

4) The usual period for such a survey is 12 hours, 7am to 7pm, to determine the busy periods. We don't need to do that, a few hours during the midday peak should suffice; say 11 am to 3pm, or even 10am to 4pm.

 

5) We have to agree on categories. Just 'white' and 'non white' or break it down further? Who do we include; everybody, or just white, black and South Asian? If we include Arabs, do we also include people such as Haredi Jews? What about Chinese, Japanese, Thais etc.?

 

As I said, I am not going to be available for this until I am back from Thailand in October and I know my wife's rota for that month; so I suggest that you PM me after the first of October so we can make the arrangements; no point in taking this thread even further off topic while we discuss those.

[7by7]

21 hours ago, MissAndry said:

 

It's all part of the same thing, the staff shortages are deliberately created to provide an excuse to recruit immigrants. It's all about control and manipulation of the workers, the workers unions, wages, and working conditions. Without the immigrants, those in charge wouldn't have the control they want.

 

PS Yacoub is a Coptic Christian ...... not a Muslim.

 

So, are you an anti capitalism  SWP member, or an anti immigrant BNP member?

 

Yes, I know Sir Magdi is a Christian; I also know that he is an immigrant who qualified as a doctor in Cairo and later moved  to the UK in 1962. He later naturalised as British, but kept his Egyptian nationality as well.

 

 

 

 

[MissAndry]

18 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

So, are you an anti capitalism  SWP member, or an anti immigrant BNP member?

 

Yes, I know Sir Magdi is a Christian; I also know that he is an immigrant who qualified as a doctor in Cairo and later moved  to the UK in 1962. He later naturalised as British, but kept his Egyptian nationality as well.

 

 

I'm an anti-Muslim immigrant member due to their desire to repress and control me. Until they are prepared to treat women as the equals of men, they should stay out of countries that have equality laws.

 

Anyone who wants to stop me walking down the road wearing a crop top, no bra, short shorts and eating a bacon roll shouldn't be living in my home country.

 

It's only reasonable.

Edited August 10, 2016 by MissAndry

[yogi100]

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Ok, yogi; your wager.

 

Until early 2014 I worked for a traffic survey company (I can prove it if you don't believe me) and during my time there conducted many pedestrian surveys. Although I don't recall any client asking us to categorise people by race; age groups, yes; race, no.

 

I can assure that achieving anywhere near an accurate result from a moving bus is impossible.

 

Each of us carrying a bag of pound coins and exchanging one every time someone passes is ridiculous

 

So I propose the following:

 

1) We pick a spot with a high pedestrian density, a spot where people from all over London come to and conduct either a flow survey, counting people who pass us, or a footfall survey, counting people who enter a particular location such as a shopping centre.

 

2) We do a paper count at the end of which we total up and the loser pays the winner; taking the money from the nearest ATM if required. In addition the loser also pays the winner their out of pocket expenses; i.e. travel and a meal.

 

To minimise error, deliberate or not, we each do our own count and at the end take the average of each figure to determine the winner.

 

3) I have a life, job, wife, family, friends; so have no desire to devote too much time to this. I am willing to devote a day to it, though. As I work during the week and as my wife works three Saturdays out of four, I am only available to do this on a Saturday when she is working.

 

However, I do not have a spare Saturday in August and will be in Thailand for most of September, so will not be available to do this until October at the earliest. Which is not a bad thing, really, as it will help the figures being effected by tourists somewhat.

 

4) The usual period for such a survey is 12 hours, 7am to 7pm, to determine the busy periods. We don't need to do that, a few hours during the midday peak should suffice; say 11 am to 3pm, or even 10am to 4pm.

 

5) We have to agree on categories. Just 'white' and 'non white' or break it down further? Who do we include; everybody, or just white, black and South Asian? If we include Arabs, do we also include people such as Haredi Jews? What about Chinese, Japanese, Thais etc.?

 

As I said, I am not going to be available for this until I am back from Thailand in October and I know my wife's rota for that month; so I suggest that you PM me after the first of October so we can make the arrangements; no point in taking this thread even further off topic while we discuss those.

 

Any Saturday that suits you and when both of us can be in the area.

 

White and non white.

 

I suggest we start at the Butterfly Walk Shopping Centre in Camberrwell or the Elephant & Castle Shopping Centre for a couple of hours then to an area of your choice for another couple of hours but an area visited mainly by commuters or tourists will not be home to many residents of London so to save arguments such areas will be excluded.