Is Thai Buddhism the noisiest religion?

[boomerangutang]

Ok, I know it's not PC to call Buddhism a religion, but in every way it's a religion as it manifests in Thailand.  It has plethora of rules. It has orthodoxy and a pecking order.  It even has a God, if you look at the millions of Buddha images everywhere in Buddhist countries.  Ok, putting that aside. I've got a gripe about my village.  It's called Hoy Plakang, located 5 Km nw of Chiang Rai city, northernmost Thailand.  I first visited here 35 yrs ago, and have been residing here since 1998.  Ten years after I built a house in the village, a wat came along. The first thing they built was a 9 story shrine on the tallest hill.  Then they built an all-white temple (probably because the White Temple south of town is mega popular with tourists).  Now they're completing the largest female Buddha statue in the world.  It's so big, it has two lifts going up to observation decks in her head.  I jest not.  

 

But what burns my biscuit is the noise that gets pumped out on large high-powered speakers during the day.  For the first several years, they played the same 3 songs over and over, and loud.  They still do that (if you want to drive someone crazy, play the same song 17 times a day for years).   But now they've got an 18 second tape loop asking for donations.   It plays every day, around 6 hours.  That's the same money-asking rap approx12,000 times per day.  They broadcast it the only way they know how:  a 200 watt amp set at 10, pumping it through four 12" speakers.  Best of all, the speakers are aimed at my house 1 Km away.   The loud sounds can be heard for roughly 10 square Km by several thousand people.  The head monk (who I've had email communication with, and met thrice in person) decides what he wants the entire surrounding community to hear.  Nearly half of those several thousand people are not Buddhist (I'm 'none of the above') but everyone knows A PERSON SHOULD NEVER COMPLAIN ABOUT ANYTHING RE; A WAT IN THAILAND.  

 

Are there other religions which are more rude and/or which pump louder sounds throughout the surrounding regions?   If so, let us know, thanks.  Adendum: I know Muslims have their 'call to prayers' which are loud, but at least they're just a few minutes.   The Hoy Plakang temple is all day, every day.

 

P.S. they also have a 3 note chant lasting 8 seconds. It's also played on a tape loop, though not as often as the 18 second tape-loop advert asking for money.  Sometimes, they're both played at the same time.  And yes, I'm moving away.

[White Christmas13]

The last sentence made my day before anybody tells you 

(if you don't like it move )

[tifino]

the easiest way the Police to find a fake monk:

 - is the monk patrolling up'n'down the street, openly asking for money

 

this may be the same, but on a much larger scale

[Clamhua]

Live near a mosque, they aren't quiet

[tifino]

2 minutes ago, Clamhua said:

Live near a mosque, they aren't quiet

 

but, as already mentioned in the OP,

 - the 'Praise the White Bunns' ... only goes on for a few minutes each time

[boomerangutang]

still, no one yet addressing my question.

[tifino]

 

I think the Laos temples are louder in general - bigger gongs

 

Hoy Plakang might just be an anomoly

[Brucenkhamen]

I agree it's inconsiderate, but it's a cultural thing not a religious thing.

 

If you go to a shopping mall, market, festival, or just have neighbours who like to share their loud music with their neighbours it's much the same.

 

It would be nice to think that Buddhists would know better, being into meditation and all, but some meditation centres are among the noisiest places I've been.

[1FinickyOne]

Yes, they can be very loud and surely annoying... as much so as working in a mall during Christmas, or Loi Kratong. We live on the outer range of the temple speakers, a distant mumble which can be helpful for my wife picking up info of meetings etc... She certainly does not mind - but as a lover of quiet, you have my sympathies. 

 

As to other religions being as noisy as living near temple speakers, especially as yours that blare all day, no, I have never heard of such a thing -- here, they surely do not blast all day - rarely actually... so, I do not think it is connected to the religion, but might be individual to the temple and the monk in charge... 

 

Move to peace, great idea. 

[rockyysdt]

Maybe you can approach the head Monk and tell him that the broadcasting is affecting your Samadhi practice.

 

Theravada Buddhism acknowledges that the practice of Anapanasiti is the most direct path to Awakening.

 

How can one achieve deep levels of Samadhi , the eighth element of the 8 Fold Path, in order to experience truth, with constant blaring sound pollution?

 

Ask this respectfully.

Edited August 13, 2016 by rockyysdt

[boomerangutang]

5 hours ago, rockyysdt said:

Maybe you can approach the head Monk and tell him that the broadcasting is affecting your Samadhi practice.

 

Theravada Buddhism acknowledges that the practice of Anapanasiti is the most direct path to Awakening.

 

How can one achieve deep levels of Samadhi , the eighth element of the 8 Fold Path, in order to experience truth, with constant blaring sound pollution?

 

Ask this respectfully.

 

Why should I have to tell a lie?  I know the answer.  It's not easy to speak to a head monk person to person like you'd speak to your best friend.  You've got to go through the motions of respect and flowery language and feigned emotions.   I've been around naturally high people on and off for the past 50 years (I'm 64).  I have a good idea about who is genuinely high and who is putting on airs.  Thai head monks, in my view, are putting on airs.  

 

I shouldn't have to do more than politely ask the head monk to turn down (or off) the recorded music that's bothering scores of people - not just me.  I've done that politely several times.  He's responded politely, but the loud sounds continue eminating throughout the 10 square Km region.  He's creating a Buddhist Disneyland, complete with bigger than life attractions.  He's posted tall posts around the wat with top-quality security cameras.  There are police detachments cruising around the premises, and a new police office at the entry (about 7 cops work full time policing the wat).  What does that indicate?   

 

It's about being a good neighbor, regardless of whether a person is wearing orange robes. One basic aspect of being a good neighbor is not annoying neighbors with annoying sounds.  I could also talk about other neighbors, like the one next door who chose to raise miniature dogs which squeaky-yap at all hours.  I get woken up 2 to 3 times each night.  ....but I'll try and stay focused on the rude monks at the wat.    As each day passes by, I lose more of whatever respect I had for Thai monks.   

[VincentRJ]

This so-called female Buddha seems a very diverse character with many different names. She is also sometimes a male. Apparently, Guan Yin was originally shown as a male with an open dress revealing her chest and sometimes a mustache. 
Here's the relevant Wikipedia article:   https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guan_Yin

 

I visited this temple about 15 months ago and took a few photos. Here are a couple.

I got the impression there was a strong Chinese influence, which might explain the efforts to turn the place into a sort of Disneyland.
 

[jak2002003]

I fully sympathise with you.

 

I have similar problem with my temple which is virtually next door to my house.

 

For years just a normal traditional small temple, popular with the villagers and myself...... Then new Abbot monk arrived about 1 year ago.

 

Now my house is up for sale.  Some days it is bordering on torture to stay at home because of the noise.  I have become very stressed and developed anxiety over it.

 

The once small beautiful temple is now lit up like Disney Land at night with high powered flashing and coloured lights everywhere. Blinding security lights shine into our bedroom windows all night.   At just after 5am several times a week the huge speakers blast out ear splitting 'music' or old Thai pop music and comedy banter between a man and a women, screaming and laughing. 

 

Then comes the Abbot shouting orders out to the village demanding more money and more food offerings to be sent to the temple.  Listing all the villagers sins and faults.  After this the actual Buddhist chanting... which is also ear splitting loud.

 

We have to leave the house early morning, just after being shocked awake by the noise. Can still hear not noise several villages away! 

 

In the afternoon it will start up again.. but usually only for couple of hours.

 

In the space of less than a year huge sums of money seem to have arrived at the temple, despite the villagers largely abandoning the once busy temple.  3 new buildings have gone up, 3 very old huge rain trees have been chainsawed down to make space for more buildings, and the beautiful quite gardens, with tinkling bells and wind charms, pond with fish,  ripped up and concreted over.

 

Now they are making a huge long building for a reclining Buddha statue... and have purchased the field opposite the temple and set up what looks like a retreat hotel thing with lost of small huts and what look like its going to be a bar!

 

I miss the old temple and monks.. the chanting and real Buddhist ways.. early morning seeing monks walk down through the village collecting their alms. 

 

Now I fear to go into the place, with its pack of big 'securing dogs'.  Most of the time you can't get into it anyway, the gates are locked up, even when the party music is going.. so must be their own private party! 

 

It seems now to be about the Abbots ego to get the biggest and most expensive temple, and their priority it to get as much money and wealth as they can.  Its so out of place in my tiny village, and not like Buddhism to me. 

 

In fact his actions have turned me away from Buddhism and I now have almost an aversion to seeing any temple or monk!!!  I am sure that's not the way its supposed to be.

 

 

 

 

[Clamhua]

Religion is a booming business in all parts of the world now.

[rockyysdt]

What you describe is not Buddhism as the Buddha taught and has nothing to do with the 8 Fold Path.

 

What you describe is the behavior of egotists lost in conditioned behavior devoid of awareness at any level.

 

 

Such practice appears to be more about the glorification of their chosen deity rather than the practice of the Buddhas teachings.

 

The collateral damage is that observers may judge Buddhism by the behavior of the few (or many). 

 

[boomerangutang]

Thanks Jak and Rocky.  Sometimes I feel like I'm on an island with my noise problem issues.  It's heartening to hear other farang sharing their stories and insights.  Local Thais and hill tribers know not to even mention noise pollution (except perhaps when whispering to family members and close friends), even if it's blasted into their houses on and off from 4:30 am until dark.  

 

There appears to be a sad trend going on in Thailand.  The Dhammakaya Temples are the epitome of the Mickey Mousification of Thai Buddhism.   Other temple complex leaders have seen the success and money sucking possibilities of going grandoise, so some of them are trying it on for size - and usually LARGE SIZE.   Perhaps it's a trend that will last awhile, while Buddhism degenerates in Thailand. Everything goes through trendt stages and the Disneylandation of Thai Buddhism will prove to be no exception.  Maybe this trend will last 100 years?  250 years?

 

I've studied Buddhism since I took it up on my own at age 18 when I read a book on the Buddha's life.    I'm 64 now, and have gone through phases: HInduism, Zen, Mahayana/Tibet style.  Recently, like Jak, I've turned off to Buddhism, at least how it manifests in Thailand. Besides head monks being rude to neighbors and being dazzled by riches, there's stratification in the rankings, and gold images everywhere.  Thai Buddhism has as much to do with the original example of the Buddha (in my view) as a Hostess Twinkie has to do with eclairs made in the home kitchen of a French pastry chef. 

[rockyysdt]

23 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Thanks Jak and Rocky.  Sometimes I feel like I'm on an island with my noise problem issues.  It's heartening to hear other farang sharing their stories and insights.  Local Thais and hill tribers know not to even mention noise pollution (except perhaps when whispering to family members and close friends), even if it's blasted into their houses on and off from 4:30 am until dark.  

 

There appears to be a sad trend going on in Thailand.  The Dhammakaya Temples are the epitome of the Mickey Mousification of Thai Buddhism.   Other temple complex leaders have seen the success and money sucking possibilities of going grandoise, so some of them are trying it on for size - and usually LARGE SIZE.   Perhaps it's a trend that will last awhile, while Buddhism degenerates in Thailand. Everything goes through trendt stages and the Disneylandation of Thai Buddhism will prove to be no exception.  Maybe this trend will last 100 years?  250 years?

 

I've studied Buddhism since I took it up on my own at age 18 when I read a book on the Buddha's life.    I'm 64 now, and have gone through phases: HInduism, Zen, Mahayana/Tibet style.  Recently, like Jak, I've turned off to Buddhism, at least how it manifests in Thailand. Besides head monks being rude to neighbors and being dazzled by riches, there's stratification in the rankings, and gold images everywhere.  Thai Buddhism has as much to do with the original example of the Buddha (in my view) as a Hostess Twinkie has to do with eclairs made in the home kitchen of a French pastry chef. 

 

I think you'll find some are very focused on the original teachings, but as these are not in your face, you don't see them.

 

Places like Wat Suan Mokkh, and also there's another group west of Nong Khai on the Mekong River both devoted to Forest tradition.

Others may quote more.

 

In terms of the circus you see.

It's well documented that religions like these are a perfect way to control a population devoid of wealth, education, & true freedom.

 

It could be said that your experiences are a test of your ability to overcome your attachments?

Edited August 15, 2016 by rockyysdt

[jak2002003]

15 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Thanks Jak and Rocky.  Sometimes I feel like I'm on an island with my noise problem issues.  It's heartening to hear other farang sharing their stories and insights.  Local Thais and hill tribers know not to even mention noise pollution (except perhaps when whispering to family members and close friends), even if it's blasted into their houses on and off from 4:30 am until dark.  

 

There appears to be a sad trend going on in Thailand.  The Dhammakaya Temples are the epitome of the Mickey Mousification of Thai Buddhism.   Other temple complex leaders have seen the success and money sucking possibilities of going grandoise, so some of them are trying it on for size - and usually LARGE SIZE.   Perhaps it's a trend that will last awhile, while Buddhism degenerates in Thailand. Everything goes through trendt stages and the Disneylandation of Thai Buddhism will prove to be no exception.  Maybe this trend will last 100 years?  250 years?

 

I've studied Buddhism since I took it up on my own at age 18 when I read a book on the Buddha's life.    I'm 64 now, and have gone through phases: HInduism, Zen, Mahayana/Tibet style.  Recently, like Jak, I've turned off to Buddhism, at least how it manifests in Thailand. Besides head monks being rude to neighbors and being dazzled by riches, there's stratification in the rankings, and gold images everywhere.  Thai Buddhism has as much to do with the original example of the Buddha (in my view) as a Hostess Twinkie has to do with eclairs made in the home kitchen of a French pastry chef. 

Don't feel like you are on an island with your noise problem.

 

Its good that we know many people have this same problem, including Thai people... so its not just us moaning farangs.

 

It does me some much good to talk about the problem to someone who actally can understand.  Most people I meet just tell me to put in some ear plugs, or turn up the TV louder.

 

They can not comprehend the actual volume and time the noise lasts.  No earplugs, no cushions over my head, not TV at MAX volume can even make the noise reduce.  How can it when the very walls and floor are vibrating with the base beats, and the actual

'singing' is still easily heard.

 

You are right about the Thai people not complaining about the noise.  But in the end they actually did in my village.  They made a petition and took it to the head man.  It was great for 2 weeks.  But now its gone back to the volume and frequency it was before.

 

I am dreading the next thing to happen.  As I said before the temple has took over the land just outside its gates... again next to my house.  They have spent a lot of money to clear, level and add soil to the land.  They now have 10 small bamboo huts, one to sleep in, and a huge open barn thing with straw roofing, and also built toilets for men / women.  The latest huge building... bigger than the temple, is nearly finished.. so I am thinking this is going to be for celebration of that event.. and the start of more money raising to buy a golden reclining Buddha statue to put inside it. 

 

 

 

[NativeSon360]

To the OP ~ The Theravada “notion” of Buddhism is far too “intellectually” advanced, genetically achieved and spiritually heightened, for the feeble-minded brain (of the average western farang) to comprehend! An entire cultural-character has been soundly developed, based-upon the fundamental Vedics of that peculiar religious form

 

How dare you take issue with their most “aesthetic” tastes in musical art, or the monuments they choose to build, in honour of Siddhartha Guatama (a Tamil Indian), in the image of a Buddha.

 

Perhaps you’d have achieved better provincial “lifestyle” success, had you not followed the typical path of the western expat's “Yellow Brick Road” to the SE Asian “sponge”, by first starting your retiree sojourn, within the more "cosmopolitan" oriented Buddhist communities of Bali, or Baguio, instead   

 

Best wishes, and good luck

   

Edited August 17, 2016 by NativeSon360

[NativeSon360]

Sorry about my previous (verbose) post yesterday. I wrote and posted on the fly.  I was being mostly sarcastically humorous. Anyway,  you're definitely in the wrong SE Asian location, if you're searching for a "spiritually aesthetic" Buddhist social environment. Baguio, or Bali are your best bets, in addition to holding par level conversational dialogue with monk, lasting (considerably) longer than 30 seconds. Again, best wishes.  

[gregk0543]

Really sorry to hear about your experience and completely sympathise with you and feel sad that you have to move because of the noise.

 

I think all you can do is move.  These types of monks and monasteries are like a cult and no amount of logic or kindness will change them.

They might burn out eventually but it may take another 20 years.

 

Dont worry even the Buddha would move away. There are instances when things got noisy and he went somewhere else.

 

"whatever problems arise in the world they arise because of fools and not because of the wise."

 

It is like the old joke about a black man crying outside a church that the white guys would not let in.

Then god comes up to him and asks him what is wrong and he explains the whites wont let him in the church. Then god says to him dont worry they wont let me in either.

 

(The Blessed One:) `Truly you, headman, by thus explaining are one who speaks what is said by me and did not falsely misrepresent me. You have answered in accordance with this Teaching and someone speaking in accordance with this Teaching would not find reason to blame you.

`For, headman, gold, silver, and money are not allowable for those monks who are the sons of the Sakyan prince. Those monks who are the sons of the Sakyan prince do not consent to gold, silver, or money. Those monks who are the sons of the Sakyan prince do not accept gold, silver, or money. Those monks who are the sons of the Sakyan prince have renounced gold and gems and are without money.

`Headman, for whoever gold, silver, or money are allowable then for him the five types of sense pleasure are allowable. For whoever the five types of sense pleasure are allowable you can be certain, “He does not possess the nature of a monk, he does not possess the nature of a son of the Sakyan prince.”

`Headman, really I say this, “By a monk who needs grass, grass can be searched for. For a monk who needs timber, timber can be searched for. For a monk who needs a cart, a cart can be searched for.” But, headman, I also say, “In no way whatsoever can gold, silver, or money be accepted or searched for.”´

 

From here:

http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books4/Dhamminda_Bhikkhu_A_Life_Free_from_Money.htm

 

 

[VincentRJ]

On the other hand, the alternative to relocation might be to simply accept the noise. As with all forms of suffering, the Buddhist way is to accept the pain or discomfort. Don't resist it, and it will become more bearable. 

[boomerangutang]

On 8/12/2016 at 9:00 PM, White Christmas13 said:

The last sentence made my day before anybody tells you 

(if you don't like it move )

 

Actually, the annoying sounds have lessened over the past weeks.  Perhaps my (and others') bellyaching posts (in here and in the Eng.lang. newspapers) have had some effect.  

 

A bit off-topic: but my workers and I just put in a blue-colored floor inside a ring of 10 meter high bamboo.  It's about 4 sq. meters.  Lovely space for meditation, but will probably put some small chairs and a little table in there for a kids' space. ...along with crayons and a few toys.  

 

On 8/12/2016 at 9:45 PM, Clamhua said:

Live near a mosque, they aren't quiet

 

That was mentioned in the OP.  Mosques are loud, but just for spurts while calling to prayer from their blasted minurettes. The sounds I hear from the wat are nearly all day - tape loops, same same over and over.

 

2 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

On the other hand, the alternative to relocation might be to simply accept the noise. As with all forms of suffering, the Buddhist way is to accept the pain or discomfort. Don't resist it, and it will become more bearable. 

That's an interesting concept, and I've heard it before.  I have been acclimating somewhat.  Though there comes a 'saturation level' at which I can't continue trying to tune out annoying loud sounds all day,  .....and half the night, if dog barking is included in the mix.

 

Similar to the Kinks' song, "Oh yea, all day, and all of the night."