Russians Need No Visa

[Nam Kao]

This has to be a joke right??? please some one tell me

[Hermano Lobo]

Thailand, you have been Warned !

Russian ex-spy dies in hospital

Poisoned spy's last words of defiance

The bastards got me

Russia Turns Off The Gas !

Fears of new Cold War as Russia, 'threatens' - to switch off the gas ! (The Recurring Fear Of Russian Gas Dependency)

Some interesting comments on the BBC web site -

Edited November 24, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[londonthai]

good riddance to all spies - dead or alive.

the best if they all kill each other - the less scum of the earth walking around us

[Hermano Lobo]

good riddance to all spies - dead or alive.

the best if they all kill each other - the less scum of the earth walking around us

So naive, you haven't a clue !

[londonthai]

that's tight, I am not into conspiracy theories or cold war come back.

btw - poisoned spy hasn't got anything to do with thailand and visas

[ourmanflint]

no! it has everything to do with discussing Russian society and the probability of an influx of that kind of visitor... can you read or not.... or are you just happy to ignore what's been written?

[londonthai]

we are talking here about visas for some tens/hundreds thousands tourists who want to spend their holidays and cash in a hot and cheap country - spies and mafia are already anywhere wherever they want to be on whatever country passport they want.

already for sometimes the main object of interest for spies are industries and technologies - and not much of them in Thailand, the land of 3 's'

[Hermano Lobo]

that's tight, I am not into conspiracy theories or cold war come back.

btw - poisoned spy hasn't got anything to do with thailand and visas

londonthai -

Please read this article:-

The darker side of new Russians' wealth now coursing through our capital city

Edited November 25, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[think_too_mut]

no! it has everything to do with discussing Russian society and the probability of an influx of that kind of visitor... can you read or not.... or are you just happy to ignore what's been written?

Russian (or whatever has derived from their former communist empire) are not bad visitors.

Usually, they are with families, not ugly overweight <deleted> at all and have no tatoos.

And have no intention to partake in what westerners do.

I can understand their language, can speak 60%...

Let me say, I am just disgusted with the post from "ourmanlift".

[Thaddeus]

These Russian spies.... do they look like this?

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/mptv/1116/7809...rbara&seq=3

And do they meet untalented farang musicians in Pattaya..... can't see the point really

[Hermano Lobo]

Russians can be the warmest, most cultured,intelligent people you can meet.

I am not referring to the average Russian but the FSB(KGB) who run the place.

They can be dangerous.

[Robski]

Watch out Herman you could be next!!!!

Russians are different from Europeans and so is the way they go about things.

Western values are a joke to them, the west pressured them to open their economy up in the early 90's and then shafted them royally,

the majority lost everything, some even their lives.

A minority profiited greatly, Putin et al.

Russia is re-emerging from 10+ yrs of virtual anihilation, it's wiser and it's meaner and it see's the world the way the world see's it.

It's dog eat dog.

It's got a lot going for it now, massive energy resources, a slimmed down military political structure and a hel_l of a lot of manpower.

Russians may come accross as unrefined in their mannerism's, but what a brutal country to have been brought up in. (you'd have to be pretty tough to survive there),

maybe that's why there are more of them coming to Thailand, the southern states of Russia where they would have gone in 'the old days' are now quite hostile, and they're not really welcome in Spain and and the Canaries, where they are looked upon as being unsophisticated.

Everybody needs a little sunshine. as they say in Scandinavia when the wind comes from the east it's as cold as a Russian hel_l.

Despite what they may say on another thread, the amount of Europeans coming to Thailand is down, especially amongst younger groups,

they can go to eastern europe and get plenty of what they want just as cheap if not cheaper, and guess who's running things there? you got it the Russians. So there is a need to fill the market here and I'd say that's why your seeing the move toward more Russian tourism.

I don't see it as anything sinister, it's the Russians spreading their wings, but doing it in a way that is typically Russian.

Don't see why you're still banging on about it Herman.

[ourmanflint]

no! it has everything to do with discussing Russian society and the probability of an influx of that kind of visitor... can you read or not.... or are you just happy to ignore what's been written?

Russian (or whatever has derived from their former communist empire) are not bad visitors.

Usually, they are with families, not ugly overweight <deleted> at all and have no tatoos.

And have no intention to partake in what westerners do.

I can understand their language, can speak 60%...

Let me say, I am just disgusted with the post from "ourmanlift".

How nice of you to say!!!

I guess my stereotyping all Russians is different from your stereotyping of .. let me guess! all Brits as "ugly overweight <deleted> with tattoos"

I can see you're just a much more thoughtful person than I.

[ourmanflint]

I think Robski has some good points, Russia must have been a hard place to grow up in, but that is exactly why their dog eat dog attitude to life, exploiting anything weaker where they can get a foothold, will bring trouble to Thailand, just an opinion.

[Hermano Lobo]

BIT FISHY? IT STINKS OF ROTTEN COLD WAR

by Tony Parsons

The Mirror 27 November 2006

I HAVE always been a fan of Itsu, the sushi restaurant in the West End of London where former KGB man Alexander Litvinenko was probably poisoned with polonium 210, a substance 250billion times more deadly than cyanide.

Itsu is one of those conveyor-belt sushi restaurants where the nosh rolls by your face like the prizes in a Bruce Forsyth game show from the Seventies.

In Japan, because the sushi is not made to order, this kind of place is considered very downmarket - the equivalent of a greasy spoon cafe with crusted red and brown fossils on the bottles of sauce where overweight men cough fag ash into their dippy egg. But in London they are considered quite sophisticated.

I often eat at Itsu, and I am disturbed to think that I might have asked a KGB agent to pass the wasabi.

So I find myself outraged about the murder of Alexander Litvinenko on a number of levels.

As someone who regularly goes to Itsu, I don't much like the sound of some of my fellow diners.

As a Londoner, I am angry that an estimated 21,000 of my fellow Londoners have had their lives put in danger by this deadly poison, a figure that includes recent Itsu diners and the innocent nurses and doctors who treated Litvinenko at two London hospitals.

And as a Brit, I am bloody furious that a bunch of murderous foreign goons are running around in my country settling scores with people they don't like using the most deadly poison on the planet.

When the story of Litvinenko's poisoning first broke, it was treated as a bit of a joke.

But if we allow foreign killers to commit murder on our soil with the most toxic substance known to man, then the joke is on us. Of course we feel human sympathy for the murdered man and his family.

But lest we forget, Alexander Litvinenko was - like the man he detested, Russian President Vladimir Putin - a former KGB man.

Let us not rush to confuse Litvinenko with some crusading journalist murdered by the cruel regime he gallantly opposed.

Litvinenko was once a willing servant of that hideous regime and part of an organisation, the KGB, that uses murder, torture and terror as routine.

Our sympathy for the man and his family should be tempered with reality. Or are we asked to believe that Alexander Litvinenko was a nice KGB man?

The real issue is how can it be possible that foreign agents have turned our capital city into a battleground where the weapons include the deadliest substance on earth?

And what are we going to do about it?

"Nothing will be done Tony. The other Tony is Prime Minister."

DIPLOMATIC BAG USED FOR POISON

By Jeff Edwards And Vanessa Allen

THE assassin who murdered ex-spy Alexander Litvinenko smuggled a tiny phial of poison in a diplomatic bag, it was claimed last night.

That way it could not be found by Customs or police officers.

A Special Branch source told the Mirror: "A former Soviet Union embassy could be involved. It would cut out any risk of interception. The poison pellet and umbrella used to murder defector Georgi Markov in the 1970s was brought in that way."

Litvinenko told police he was being targeted by a diplomat, Viktor Kirov, who is now back in Russia.

Detectives are sure the polonium that killed Litvinenko was slipped into his food. They want to interview two Russians and an Italian - Mario Scaramella - who ate and drank with him on November 1.

Litvinenko, 43, was paranoid about the meeting with Mr Scaramella at a sushi bar and later told a friend: "Mario was just drinking water."

Days before his death three weeks later, he said President Vladimir Putin ordered his murder. His friend, filmmaker Andrei Nekrasov said that was unlikely but blamed "rogue people who are the result of his ideology of force and nationalism".

A Russian journalist has claimed Litvinenko was murdered by his own supporters to discredit Mr Putin.

He said London-based oligarch Boris Berezovsky told him: "There's a plan to reduce Putin's popularity. We need to sacrifice someone in the interests of democracy."

"Smoke and Mirrors......"

Edited November 27, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[calibanjr.]

Oh c'mon guys! Putin can't be that bad. Georgie W. looked into his soul and says he's tops!

[Hermano Lobo]

As usual there is a lot more to this. It is unlikely that we will find out what ?

Spy death linked to nuclear thefts

Mark Townsend, Antony Barnett and Tom Parfitt

Sunday November 26, 2006

The Observer

An investigation was under way last night into Russia's black market trade in radioactive materials amid concern that significant quantities of polonium 210, the substance that killed former spy Alexander Litvinenko, are being stolen from poorly protected Russian nuclear sites.

As British police drew up a list of witnesses for questioning over the death, experts warned that thefts from nuclear facilities in the former Soviet Union were a major problem.

A senior source at the United Nations nuclear inspectorate, the International Atomic Energy Agency, told The Observer he had no doubt that the killing of Litvinenko was an 'organised operation' which bore all the hallmarks of a foreign intelligence agency. The expert in radioactive materials said the ability to obtain polonium 210 and the knowledge needed to use it to kill Litvinenko meant that the attack could not have been carried out by a 'lone assassin'.

Suggestions that the death may have involved some form of state sponsorship were being investigated by MI5 and MI6 who are looking at theories that foreign agents may have been behind the death of Litvinenko. Scotland Yard has asked the Kremlin for help with its inquiries, though Russia has dismissed any involvement in the death as 'absurd'. Litvinenko received British citizenship this month.

A senior British security source said they were providing the police with material in 'hostile intelligence agencies' operating in the UK, including those from Russia. He said: 'Russia has never really decreased its activity in the UK from the end of the Cold War.'

Privately, however, there is deep scepticism in Whitehall about whether the Putin administration would be willing to risk a crisis in British-Russian relations by directly authorising an assassination of a British citizen on British soil, particularly using a method that might involve other Britons being contaminated. The two countries are currently engaged in delicate negotiations over energy security.

More than anything, the death of the London-based former KGB spy has placed Russia's still thriving trade in radioactive material under scrutiny. 'From the terrorism threat standpoint, these cases are of little concern but they show security vulnerabilities at facilities,' said an IAEA spokesman.

One of the few figures available, on a database compiled by researchers at Stanford University in the US, revealed that about 40kg of weapons-usable uranium and plutonium were stolen from poorly protected nuclear facilities in the former Soviet Union between 1991 and 2002. Although the IAEA has no confirmation of polonium finding its way into the underground trade, there have been several unconfirmed reports of thefts.

In 1993 the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists reported that 10kg of polonium had disappeared from the Sarov, which produces the rare radioactive material and is described as Russia's own version of Los Alamos, the US government's nuclear research base in New Mexico.

Globally there have been more than 300 cases during the past four years where individuals have been caught trying to smuggle radioactive material. In 2005 there were 103 confirmed incidents of trafficking and other unauthorised activities involving nuclear and radioactive materials, many involving Russia.

In one incident, in the remote west of former Soviet Georgia, a group of woodsmen found two capsules of the material which was emitting heat in a forest. They used them to keep warm at night but soon developed acute radiation sickness. The capsules turned out to be the highly radioactive strontium 90 core of a nuclear generator from a long abandoned aircraft navigation beacon.

Meanwhile in Britain, Cobra, No 10's crisis committee, met again yesterday to discuss emerging findings in the police investigation and in public health.

The Foreign Office held a meeting on Friday with the Russian ambassador to request full co-operation from the Russian government in the police investigation, including making witnesses available. Officials from the Atomic Weapons Research Establishment in Aldermaston, Berkshire, and Porton Down, the government's Defence Science and Technology Laboratory, near Salisbury, Wiltshire, were trying last night to track down the precise source of the polonium 210 that killed Litvinenko.

No date has been set for a post mortem examination on Litvinenko until a risk assessment is carried out to see if it is safe to perform the procedure, and if so, what precautions would be necessary.

Edited November 27, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[Hermano Lobo]

From The Nation 29th November 2006

Who killed Alexander Litvinenko? Ask Putin

Until a week ago, Alexander Litvinenko, a former colonel in the Russian Federal Security Service, the FSB, was virtually unknown outside the murky world of Russian intelligence.

With his death in London from a massive dose of the radioactive element polonium 210, however, his fate may lead to a fundamentally different relationship between Russia and the West.

Beginning with the Yeltsin era, two US administrations have muted criticism of Russia. This was the case even in the face of a series of political murders in Russia. But if Litvinenko, a British subject, was murdered by Russian intelligence on British soil, self-censorship is no longer an option. Unless we want to give the Putin regime carte blanche to dispose of its enemies on our soil, we have no choice but to react.

Russian television has given an explanation for the murder of Litvinenko as surrealistic as any offered by the Soviets during the Cold War. It attributed his death to intrigues in the entourage of the exiled Russian oligarch, Boris Berezovsky. An announcer on the evening news said Litvinenko was "a pawn in a game whose significance he did not understand". Mr Berezovsky, however, had no reason to kill Litvinenko, whose views he shared and whom he had helped since his arrival in the UK in 2000. In November 1998, Litvinenko revealed a plot to kill Mr Berezovsky who, at the time, was the deputy head of the Russian security council. The evidence points instead to Litvinenko having been murdered by the FSB, which, together with the other "force ministries", has become the dominant political force in Russia today.

The FSB has always had a strong interest in Vladimir Putin's critics abroad. In December 2001, a Russian police official, in announcing a warrant for Mr Berezovsky's arrest, said, "We know what he eats for breakfast, where he has lunch and where he buys his groceries." This was followed up in September 2003 with an unsuccessful attempt to kill Mr Berezovsky with a needle camouflaged as a pen. The British reacted by granting Mr Berezovsky political asylum. Besides a history of tracking Mr Putin's opponents, the FSB could have been encouraged to kill Litvinenko because in June the Russian State Duma passed a law allowing the president to authorise attacks by the FSB on "terrorists" in foreign countries. In fact, the Russian intelligence services do not need a law to attack persons they regard as terrorists abroad. On February 13, 2004, the former Chechen president, Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev, was killed and his 12-year-old son seriously injured when a bomb attached by Russian agents ripped apart their SUV. The new law, however, gives a seal of legitimacy to such operations and guarantees that those who carried them out will not be disowned or forgotten in the event of failure.

In the last six years, the make-up of the ruling elite in Russia has undergone a dramatic change. Once in power, Mr Putin filled the majority of important posts with veterans of the security services, many with ties to him dating back to his work in St Petersburg. By 2003, the top ministers, half of the members of the Russian Security Council and 70 per cent of all senior regional officials in Russia were former members of the security services. At the same time, many of these persons gained access to great wealth. Russia was already highly corrupt under Boris Yeltsin but, according to IDEM, an independent Russian think tank, with the rise in oil prices the level of corruption in Russia between 2002 and 2005 increased 900 per cent.

The result of these developments was that Mr Putin created an FSB ruling class. As this class became rooted, the victims of contract killers in Russia began to include the most prominent political figures in the country.

The most sensitive question in Russia is the provenance of the 1999 apartment bombings in Moscow, Volgodonsk and Buinaksk, in which 300 died. As a result of the bombings, the second Chechen war was launched and, in his role as wartime leader, Mr Putin, then the PM, achieved enough popularity to be elected president. There is widespread belief the real authors of the bombings were the FSB. Two of the political figures murdered in Russia in recent years were investigating the bombings.

Finally, Anna Politkovskaya, perhaps Russia's best-known journalist, was murdered last month. She travelled to Chechnya regularly despite the risk and was sought out by people from all over the North Caucasus in the hope that she would tell the world about their situation. It used to be said in Russia that no one is killed for politics. Politkovskaya, however, was clearly the victim of a political killing because she wrote only about politics.

Litvinenko resembles the others in this list in all respects except one. He lived in England. His book, "Blowing Up Russia", accused the FSB of the 1999 apartment bombings. He received visitors from Russia, was able to comment knowledgeably on the actions of the FSB in Moscow, and refused to be intimidated. In the wake of Litvinenko's death, the West must insist on cooperation from the FSB in finding his killers. If that is not forthcoming, it should be assumed that the murder of Litvinenko was ordered by the Russian regime.

Under those circumstances, not only should Russia be expelled from the G-8 but the whole structure of mutual consultation and cooperation would need to be re-evaluated. This is not just a matter of refusing to trivialise a murder. It is also a vital political obligation. Russians of all types are watching to see whether the West will simply swallow this crime or finally react to the rampant criminalisation of Russian society. There are forces in Russia that want the country to be part of the West. But to back them, we need to demonstrate that we have moral values that we defend. To do less would be to abandon Russia to the forces of nihilism and obscurantism.

David Satter

Moscow

David Satter is affiliated with the Hoover Institution, the Hudson Institute and Johns Hopkins University. His most recent book is "Darkness at Dawn: The Rise of the Russian Criminal State" (Yale, 2003)

[Hermano Lobo]

BA planes undergo radiation tests

Two British Airways planes are to undergo further detailed examination after traces of a radioactive substance were discovered on board.

The traces were found by scientists involved in investigating the death of ex-spy Alexander Litvinenko. An inquest into the death opens today.

BA said a third plane is grounded in Moscow awaiting tests.

The airline is trying to make contact with 33,000 passengers who travelled on affected flights.

People are being advised to check the flight details published on the BA website and to contact NHS Direct or a special helpline number if they travelled on the named flights.

Advice

A spokeswoman for BA said the airline had also been "proactively calling passengers" and hoped to have contacted the majority before the end of Thursday.

An estimated 3,000 staff would also need to be checked, BA said.

DESTINATIONS AFFECTED

Moscow

Barcelona

Dusseldorf

Athens

Larnaca

Stockholm

Vienna

Frankfurt

Istanbul

Madrid

All flight numbers published on the BA website

Mr Litvinenko, an ex-KGB agent and a fierce critic of Russian president Vladimir Putin, died last week of radiation poisoning.

Traces of radioactive polonium-210 were discovered in his body and more traces of the substance were found at venues he visited in the capital on 1 November.

Scotland Yard has not said why it became interested in the planes, which were used on flights to Moscow and other European destinations over a five-week period.

But detectives are known to be tracing the movements of those who associated with Mr Litvinenko.

The BBC's Richard Galpin said the traces could be there from anyone who had been in contact with Mr Litvinenko, or could have come from someone bringing the substance to the UK.

The alert involves 221 flights made by the three short-haul 767s in Europe between 25 October and 29 November.

British Airways chief executive Willie Walsh told the BBC that the aircraft affected were all of the same type, and were being carefully examined.

EXPOSURE RISK

Contact with carrier's sweat or urine could lead to exposure

But polonium-210 must be ingested to cause damage

Radiation has very short range and cannot pass through skin

Washing eliminates traces

"Three specific aircraft were initially identified - three 767s," he said. "Two of those aircraft have been tested, and very low levels of radioactive traces have been discovered on the aircraft."

Mr Walsh said that the aircraft had made a large number of flights since they were contaminated, carrying many thousands of passengers, and the company was trying to alert them all.

"In total, there are 221 flights involved, involving the three aircraft. We estimate that there are 33,000 passengers involved."

Low risk

The chief executive of Britain's Health Protection Agency, Prof Pat Troop, said that if the source of the radiation was the same as that which killed Mr Litvinenko - polonium-210 - the risk of serious contamination to passengers was small.

"What we have heard is that it's either traces or very low levels and what we have learnt so far in our investigation... is that where we have got these areas of low level radiation it doesn't seem to pose a significant health threat."

The inquest into Mr Litvinenko's death is due to open today at St Pancras Coroner's Court.

However, it will be adjourned until the police investigation into his death has been completed.

Home Secretary John Reid is expected to make a statement to Parliament concerning the investigation today.

British Airways has set up a special helpline for customers in the UK on 0845 6040171 or 0191 211 3690 for international calls.

Passengers who travelled on those flights and want further advice are advised to telephone NHS Direct on 0845 4647.

More information:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6158473.stm

[kmart]

This could lead to a cross-cultural exchange of ideas whereby ladyboys now smear bacterial agents or nerve toxins on their breasts to fleece some unlucky punter?

[Hermano Lobo]

Who needs a James Bond story when you have real life ?

Russian ex-PM has mystery illness

Former Russian acting Prime Minister Yegor Gaidar is being treated in a Moscow hospital amid rumours about the cause of his mystery illness.

Mr Gaidar became violently ill during a visit to Ireland last week, and his daughter Maria told the BBC that doctors believe he was poisoned.

Irish police are investigating the claims, as he recovers in Moscow.

Mr Gaidar, 50, fell ill a day after Russian ex-spy Alexander Litvinenko died of radiation poisoning in London.

Mr Gaidar briefly served as prime minister in 1992 under Russian President Vladimir Putin's predecessor, Boris Yeltsin.

He now heads a Moscow-based think-tank which has criticised President Putin's economic policies, but he is a marginal political figure who is not regarded as a prominent political opponent of the Russian leader.

'Pale and thin'

Mr Gaidar suffered from a nose bleed and vomiting before fainting in Dublin last Friday, during a visit to promote his book The Death of Empire: Lessons for Contemporary Russia.

Ms Gaidar was quoted as saying her father had eaten a "simple breakfast of fruit salad and a cup of tea".

Ms Gaidar, an anti-Kremlin activist, told the BBC doctors in Moscow had been unable to find any other cause except poisoning.

"The doctors think that they don't find any other reason of his condition that he was poisoned with some strange poison they cannot identify," she said. "But to have an official conclusion they're still waiting for the information of the doctors of Dublin."

She said that if her father had been deliberately poisoned "it could be a political poisoning because there are no personal or business reasons why someone would want to do that".

She told Reuters news agency her father was speaking, but looked pale and thin.

Mr Gaidar was treated in intensive care in Dublin after he collapsed, before being flown to Moscow.

The Irish government has said it had no reason to believe there was anything untoward about Mr Gaidar's illness.

However, the police force said it was investigating Mr Gaidar's movements during his trip.

"Enquiries to date have been conducted with hospital and medical staff and through the diplomatic corps," a police statement said.

"Public health and safety is of paramount importance and there is nothing known which indicates that any member of the public is at risk."

As acting prime minister, Mr Gaidar was responsible for introducing sweeping economic reforms following the collapse of the Soviet Union.

His programme of economic "shock therapy" under which price controls were lifted and large-scale privatisations were launched angered many Russians who saw their savings devalued.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6159343.stm

[Plus]

What has it got to do with the topic?

I haven't followed the whole defected spy story, but, generally, what else did he expect from KGB? A Cristmas card?

[Farma]

And now Mario Scaramella who had lunch with Litvinenko is contaminated with a significant amount of polonium210

[bkkandrew]

And now Mario Scaramella who had lunch with Litvinenko is contaminated with a significant amount of polonium210

Scaramanga? Again?

I thought that he was just out to assassinate Bond???

[Hermano Lobo]

What has it got to do with the topic?

I haven't followed the whole defected spy story, but, generally, what else did he expect from KGB? A Cristmas card?

What has it got to do with the topic?

Many wider implications. If you are allowing the Boris to come to Thailand willy-nilly, easy come easy go, what are you letting in without serious screening ?

An alleged democratic country where people are shot and poisoned because they openly disagree!

What if Thaivisa followed this policy. Would they still have any living members ?

It is just my opinion but I believe that Putin is following an agenda, not a very nice agenda.

An agenda that would bring a smile to the good old boys from the good old days of the Soviet Union.

I see behind the scenes activity here:-

Key ministers sacked in Ukraine

What if the dirty deed was done in a Bangkok Sushi restaurant and not one in London.

What would be your attitude then ?

Contact in positive polonium test

[aaaaaa]

Hmmmmmmmm...........

after going through this whole thread, especially persistant and prejudiced if not entirely and intentionally sensationalistic and somewhat, let's say, histerically excited posts by some guys like Hermano Loco - oops, I mean Hermano Lobo - I've decided to add a bit in here.

1) First of all I was surprised that in General topics - not even in Bedlam or something - Mods and Admins has closed their eyes on something like this - a thread which rants on and on about .... something obviously not or very little related to Thailand. as most of posts which discuss Putin's politics towards Europe in here. I thought those times are gone - when TV admins has created another forum (Bearpit was that?) and fiercely enforced their Policy of "no foreign politics on TV!"?

2) Hernando and others with same histerical old-fashioned Cold War era attitude ("Red heat" with Arnie, "Rambo" with sly, all "007" series and God only knows what and how much else) - don't be silly!

REAL MAFIA - they were never affected neither by previous visa arrangements nor by new! people who are REAL Mafia can BUY anything they want to ! they can simply buy passport under entirely different name and get into other country easily as all other tourists.

OR they can even buy passport of other country, like British or American passport - and come here as those other from the list of 41 "privelaged" countries.

I personally know one guy who's lived here for several years on Belgian passport - and he is not even mafia at all!

3) that is IF they are interested to come to Thailand at all! what for? surely NOT for any serious lucrative business: there is no Oil here, not much narcotics or other REALY profitable resources or "themes" as they say in their jargon.

prove me wrong:

- most of Oil or whatever remains of it GWB & Co has covered already; arabs, Chavez and Putin control the rest.

- gas is mostly in Russia again. well, at least - definetely NOT in Thailand.

- weapons trade, perhaps biggest business in the world both on the legal AND especially illegal scale - why, that is also covered by US, Russia and NATO / G8 countries. definetely Thailand is NOT good place for that business either. it is not such a "hot zone" as Middle East or Latin America and Africa with endless warfare.

- drugs - why, Afgan (#1 opium production), Colombia (#1 coca production), Peru (#2 coca production), and huge part of Central and South America, Myanmar.... add to the list. Thailand's Northern Hill tribes are converted to OTOP now, making "Karen silver" or whatever souvenirs for export. definetely NOT feasible to invest in here. well, at least again the same - there are a lot of other places where drugs trade is much bigger than in Thailand.

- "human trafficing"? please! first of all, in modern age of Globalism it is not that much popular anymore in terms of 'mafia business'. and then, those who are still interested to do it - have more than plenty of places, like Laos, same Myanmar (check statistics - how many of them run as refugies to Thailand or Bangladesh - in hundreds of thousands!), Indons, etc etc. again Thailand isn't the best source for that comparing to other places.

- whatever other possible things potentially interesting for REAL MAFIA - how much realy opportunities here in Thailand, comparing to plenty of other places elsewhere?

AND as someone else 's pointed out already - that local Thai Mafia also is not passive: IF there is anything worth of doing - they'd definetely prefer NOT to share it with "aliens".

then the only thing which may keep Thailand interesting enough for REAL MAFIA - is using it as a place to hide or lay low. and even this - it doesn't make Thailand as anything special, because if it is question to hide - Thailand in this regard is as good as any other country. may be other countries are even better.

Edited December 29, 2006 by aaaaaa

[aaaaaa]

Regarding OP (why, oh why, Thais let evil Russkies in?) - I can say with words of one of my favorite writers R. Ludlum from his hillarious book "Road to Gandolfo" (book description on the back cover):

"Gentle souls, why not?"

it is said that "grass is greener on other side of road" - which describes nicely odd human nature. people like change: those living on cold countries want to visit warm and vice-versa, Thais are eager to see cold countries, they are fascinated! it comparable only with skin color obsession: as much as Western women love to get tan and spent huge money (tickets, hotels, etc.) to come at least for a few days to Thai beaches, so do Thai women are ready to spend ANY amounts of money for all those unlimited Whitening creams and lotions etc. so, people like to get/ see/ visit something what they don't usually have/ see/ live in!

I mean - as someone else said it here already - why Brits or Frizs or Yanks and others can and Ivans can't, huh? they bring income to Thailand tourism (and I mean REAL TOURISM - not those other forms which most of sexpats or sex-tourists do come here for) as much those other tourists from the rest of the world. perhaps even more.

Thai government's move (BTW reciprocal to/ mutual their Russian counterparts) to relax the visa complications IS smart move in fact! because usually, unless they are some folks from Siberia or Far Eastern part of Russia, which are geographically nearer to Thailand than Europian Russia - most of people would prefer to go for sunshine holiday to Black sea (Turkey, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Romania) or Mideteranean (mostly to Cyprus, Croatia, Serbia, again Turkey - Anatolia - and whole Northern coast of it). why? it is simple: THE DISTANCE! it is far to fly all over to Thailand, accordingly, tickets are more expensive. better to spent those few hundred bucks saved on price difference on something else in above mentioned countires.

so, usually very few REAL Russian tourists would venture into such a long distance trip as to this area of SE Asia, although I do know that Thailand is one of most attractive and mysterious destinations for many people there.

another point is - language barier. average of people never bother to even start to learn English - well, pretty much as whole Europe. majority of NORMAL Italians, French, Germans - they don't give a sh1t about talking English, especially on their own soilor almost to same extent while being in non-English speaking countries.

in fact my French friend who's lived here for at least 12 years and fully fluent in Thai told me - if Thais try to talk to me in English, I answer to them in Thai: "mai khaojai, phom phut phasa angrit mai dai, phom knon Farang-set! khun phut phasa Thai dai mai?" he said to me in broken English - believe it or not, I talk in English ONLY to you. I believe him. I mean - WHY on Earth French guy in Thailand must or even need speak English for?

therefore, those very few REAL Russian tourists (ordinary "small people") who would brave many obstacles to come all the way over here, would usualy go ONLY on tour package. because tour means - there are certain arrangements made for them, especially in terms of language - there are tour-guides or all sorts of friendly staff in those hotels who can show them around to shopping places or entertainment, etc.

and of course, visa-on-arrival was adding to those factors for little number of Russians coming as a tourists to Thailand. because one must "buy a tour" to get visa - because they won't be able to speak enough English even to fill up their forms for Visa-on-arrival or perhaps even to find the Immigration booths at the airport. means that they must spend extra cash for hassle-free basic visa arrangments as VOR.

now with new visa agreement even normal citizens to whom few hundred bucks saved in this way does matter(not solely those well-to-do chaps, but middle class, like workers and clerks or even those below ) can afford to come here - they they don't have to "BUY TOUR" anymore to be able to obtain visa, but simply buy an airplane ticket, fly over here, get stamp in the passport without any hassle at the airport and spent their few days in warmer climate.

definetely, Thai Tourism does get better profits from encreased numbers of tourists. otherwise they won't do it.

Thailand is interested to develope relations with Russia not only for Russians sake, but for Thais' too! those who have experience about trying to obtain Russian visa - might know what I'm talking about, what kind of hassle it might be! another day in Russian consulate I saw a group of Thai students, about 10-12 youngsters, trying to get visa to go study there. many people go there for business - like one of my Thai suppliers told me she's is going every year to Moscow for some trade fair. Thailand establishes and developes many projects especially in terms of energy supply.

surely Russia has a lot more to see for tourists than Thailand - only St. Petersburg alone (called "the Venice of North") with its all cannals, architechture, museums, etc. - has much more to see than whole Thailand ever had. not to mention all other cities and places, like "Gold Ring cities" or cruise ship trip on Volga river (my friend from Taiwan done that last year with his wife), or Trans-Siberian train trip. even Central Circus in Moscow makes it worth visiting Russia for itself alone - in Thailand I'm told by my wife they don't have any their own circus.

why, I know many Thais who like to go to Russia as normal tourists. I saw many adds by Thai travel agents for arranging tours to Russia, especially last year there was a huge campaign - something like "celebrate New Year in Moscow!" Thais just want to "touch the snow" which they never seen in their own country, even that alone makes them eager to go visit Russia, never mind winter - and what better time to do that then during the New Year?

I saw once (well, been forced to - because my wife has been watching it) a program on Thai TV showing Tata Yong on her trip arranged by Colgate to Finland and such an excitement and envy expressed by VJs interviewing her - watching are the video shots and hearing her comments. hotel made of ice, dog / deer sleighs etc etc. and the SNOW everywhere, wow! even one of Thai commercials (about some wisky?) shows guy who's CGI wiz, who's made a brief video as if Bangkok is covered with snow, Chao Phraya river is frozen, every one is happily playing snow-balls fights. anyone seen it too?

anyway, to sum it all up - no doubt that Thai goverenment has its sufficient reasons to ensure more flexible system for their own citizens to be able to visit Russia, at least not less, if not more than Russia is interested in same thing for its citizens to be able to visit Thailand. Russia, as some would like it to admit / believe it or not - is a member of G8, one of the world's top 8 industrially developed countries. Thailand - well, it is still 3rd world country and will remain quite for a while. why won't it be interested to develope relations with more developed country?

so, this law is based upon mutually benefical agreement between 2 governments first of all. yes, there might be an argument that governments themselves are sme sort of "mafia". but that is irrelevent, because after all, governments make laws and diplomatic agreements.

therefore to rant about - WHY Thai government has made such a "stupid" (as many imply or openly say so here) decision - I think that is realy stupid. try to, say, write an open letter to Thai government in bangkok Post or The Nation and raise such question and let's see what reply there would be ? most likely some sort of polite form of "please mind your f***ing business" - and even that much if they'd bother to answer at all!

Edited December 29, 2006 by aaaaaa