Transport officials will make driver's license test harder but is it?

[williamgeorgeallen]

7 hours ago, thai3 said:

I have looked at them watching the video- all were either playing on phones or asleep, the test is a disgrace and is killing people everyday. Stop at white line, reversing and in and out of a box is not a driving test.

well i wished i had taken something to entertain myself as the video was in thai and i could not understand most of it.

[oldgent]

yes totally agree that improvement on driving skills is needed. I was once

told that you are a perfect gentleman until you get behind the wheel of a car.

i suggest also that Attitude adjustment is needed

[bangrak]

...But for 'the authorities' it doesn't seem to be a problem, for road safety in the first line, that scores of two- and four-wheelers are currently driven by people who don't have any driving license (and probably never had any in their life + all the underaged ones who cannot yet get one), must be millions of them in the Kingdom...! Oh, and how many motorbikes and cars without a registration, not even speaking of having the, though 'minimalist' obligatory insurance... 'Mai pen rai'!

[CarolJadzia]

6 hours ago, waldroj said:

"...World Health Organization placed Thailand in the second spot for having the deadliest roads in the world..."

 

Which is based on estimated road traffic death rate per 100 000 population! Unfortunately for Thailand, this figure is so heavily biased by the percentage of deaths of drivers and passengers of motorized  2- or 3- wheeled vehicles.

 

If one accepts the statistics in Table A2 of the WHO's Global status report on road safety 2015 (http://www.who.int/entity/violence_injury_prevention/road_safety_status/2015/TableA2.pdf?ua=1) it is apparent that Thailand has a serious problem with riders of 2- and 3-wheeled vehicles!

 

If we are talking about deadly roads, the obvious fact is that (given the sheer number of bike users in this country) if more Thais simply wore helmets there would be simply more Thais!

 

As Table A2 clearly shows , Thailand actually ranks number 1 when it comes to Road User Deaths for Drivers/Passengers of motorized  2- or 3- wheelers, with a staggering 72.8% of all reported fatalities! This Table also shows that Thailand's near-neighbours  Cambodia and Laos rank numbers 2 and 3 in this category, while no figures are available for Viet Nam, and interestingly in Myanmar, Road User Deaths seem to be evenly distributed between 4-wheeled vehicles 26%;  2- and 3-wheeled vehicles 23%; and pedestrians 26%.

 

As for Road User Deaths for Drivers/Passengers of 4-wheeled vehicles here, Thailand ranks 114th with only 13% of all reported fatalities.

 

So, if the authorities focus their energies on the motorized  2- or 3- wheelers of this country there should be hope that the country's reputation as having the world's second deadliest roads could quite easily tumble quite a few places. Whether this is done by carrot or stick as suggested by CarolJadzia above is moot, but it should be obvious to anyone that this is where the effort needs to be made.

 

 

 

 

Some things worth mentioning. 

 

The WHO Data is a bit vague, it is far from comprehensive and built on estimates. 

Compared to "Western" countries, Thailand has fifteen times the number of motorcycles, but ten times the number of accidents. 

75% of reported Road fatalities are motorcycles. But compared to other Asian countries Thailand also has a large number of other vehicle types as well. It is the interactions between vehicles that is the cause of most of the fatalities, does not matter who causes the confrontation, it will always be the rider who comes of worse. 

 

It is foolish to assume that just trying to make people wear helmets will make all the difference. When we do basic training courses in the UK we are required by law to discuss helmets as part of the compulsory basic training. People are taught about the different standards of helmet, how they are constructed, the fact they must be the correct fit and securely fasted otherwise they can come off when required. My helmet costs around 25000 baht. Not many average Thai's are going to spend that on a helmet. Only the serious riders tend to. Not the ones who make up most of the road traffic fatalities, they are using scooters as cheap daily transport. Their bikes are worth less than my helmet. Yes there are many cheaper alternatives that will do the job. But there are also many that will not. A helmet is not simply just a one-size-fits-all, a UK bike shop has a choice of dozens of makes in dozens of sizes and also we have the "Sharp" standards. http://sharp.direct.gov.uk

 

 

We are currently 5 years into the "Decade of Action for Road Safety", this is funded by Bloomberg Philanthropies, and supported by the United Nations and the W.H.O. They have spent millions focused just on helmet and seat belt enforcement. It is their one and only goal. In fact if you were to answer one of their adverts offering funding for projects to address the situation in Thailand, it specifically says on their website that they do not fund education programmes. So why are they seeking new projects half way through the programme? It is because it continues to fail. You cannot enforce safety on a system. Nowhere has it been successful at addressing road safety on its own. Yes, it does have a place in the system, but it has been overstated as a cure all for way too long. On the world road safety stage we are now changing this. More and more people are looking towards "Safety 2" thinking. Moving beyond command and control system , "Safety II" thinking is based on the Japanese "Kaizen" business approach of continuous improvement. It's thinking in regard to addressing safety is like comparing Buddhism to Christianity. Christians are preached at by clergy and look to convert others to their beliefs, while Buddhists look far more at their own actions, a Buddhist Monk is following their own path, Buddhists earn merit by their actions to others, not damnation for doing wrong as is the Abrahamic religions genral norm. 

 

To see what "Safety II" thinking is, this explains what it isn't - http://www.safetydifferently.com/what-safety-ii-isnt/

 

The reason the statistics show more fatalities in Thailand than it's neighbours is because there are far more interactions between different vehicle types. The fact that there are more cars and lorries in Thailand is the reason they have higher fatalities, not the lack of helmets. With no proper, real world, interactive road user training, people revert to the only rules they know, they drive by the rules they learned as pedestrians. Just watch any free flowing junction to see this.

 

The one rule that applies everywhere there are humans interacting is self survival. Unfortunately as many Buddhists consider this life to be part of a greater journey and see death as a learning curve, what point is a helmet anyway? 

 

If you want to use the W.H.O. data to find a comparison. Look at levels of training by country, not levels of enforcement. The United States has high enforcement, but poor road safety. The countries with the lowest road fatalities are the ones who have spent the most on road safety training and education, not enforcement. 

 

 

 

 

[CarolJadzia]

7 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

I don't know about that. A few years ago my wife took Driver Training from a Private School in Udon Thani as she never drove a car in her life before. I forget the exact times right now but I do recall 1 full day in which they learnt the rules of the road, and had to pass a Written Test. 

 

After that was Practical in which she got to drive a car. I forget exactly now but I think this was 4 or 5 days at 2 hours a day with the instructor where she drove with him in the city. She then did her Road Test and once she passed that, she was issued the equivalent to a Learner License for 1 year (2 years now).

 

To be honest she wasn't the greatest driver on the Road after she first got her license but was a safe one. In fact too safe, as I had to push her to drive past 80 kilometers on the double-lane highway. My point being that there isn't a Driver Training School anywhere, who can prepare an Unqualified Driver into being an Expert, before they get on the road. They need to acquire this by experience and driving. This is why there is a Learner License to begin with.

 

In my view Thailand prepared its new drivers far better than what Canada did, and when I got my license. Thailand even increased this Learner License Period from 1 year to 2 years, in hopes of reducing accidents from new drivers. If you have a traffic violation during this time this learning period is increased or you license taken away. 

 

It is also my view that increasing the time for a new driver to go with an instructor doesn't do much except cost more money and waste time. They need to practice driving on the road with an experienced driver who they would listen to. So a Husband and Wife Team is not the best team under these conditions.  

 

So your wife spent a day learning to drive off-road in a carpark somewhere probably? Then she learned rules that the majority do not follow! Sorry but quoting the established local way is reinforcing my argument for better training, not arguing against it. 

It is interesting that you say she had on-road training, but that is not a requirement of the Thai Test. That is done off road. Nice to see some on-road driving done as well, but to what standard? 

 

I as in regular contact with the people behind "No Surprise / No Accident", we are challenging the way the UK driver and rider test and training is conducted. Just the act of telling someone they have "passed a test" can cause an issue as it instals in the person that they are now a qualified driver or rider. I have only been teaching people to ride for thirty years, along with also driving and riding professionally for thirty five. I am still learning. To get people to open their minds to the new thinking, our biggest hurdle is challenging the "fundamental attribution error" that is a human trait. Interestingly if you look at this then people of Asia decent see the world differently to the typical "Westerners" See Cultural differences in correspondence bias

 

You see the two year provisional licence as a time to build experience, I totally agree, if there was a proper standard to reach at the end of the two years. But there is no standard. There is no "real world" test of competency. The UK's DVSA set the UK standard, this is far from perfect as it is operated by civil servants looking for promotion, rather than career road safety professionals. We often referred to it as the "Different Standards Agency". However the base line training requirement is there, not perfect, but at least it offers a base line standard far in excess of what is required in Thailand. 

 

I am not familiar with Canada, but the majority of provisional training for test in the UK is done on road with experienced qualified driving instructors. Doing the right thing badly is far better than doing the wrong thing well. Spending many years as an instructor trainer has meant I have heard all sorts of complete and utter rubbish taught to people about riding and driving, without proper instruction, people make up things that work based on experience, this may appear to work to a point, but there are often reasons people are taught by qualified Instructors rather than family.  That is why the whole system in Thailand needs addressing. Proper on-road real world interactive training required. 

 

That is why I have proposed Road Safety Ambassadors

Edited August 20, 2016 by CarolJadzia
spelling correction

[Berty100]

It's obvious to me from my travels on the road that the majority of Thais doesn't know the difference between left and right side, has not the slightest idea about the meaning of traffic signs and are unable to cross a road in a straight line.

 

Yet they can get a driver license license to kill.

[GOLDBUGGY]

3 hours ago, CarolJadzia said:

 

So your wife spent a day learning to drive off-road in a carpark somewhere probably? Then she learned rules that the majority do not follow! Sorry but quoting the established local way is reinforcing my argument for better training, not arguing against it. 

It is interesting that you say she had on-road training, but that is not a requirement of the Thai Test. That is done off road. Nice to see some on-road driving done as well, but to what standard? 

 

I as in regular contact with the people behind "No Surprise / No Accident", we are challenging the way the UK driver and rider test and training is conducted. Just the act of telling someone they have "passed a test" can cause an issue as it instals in the person that they are now a qualified driver or rider. I have only been teaching people to ride for thirty years, along with also driving and riding professionally for thirty five. I am still learning. To get people to open their minds to the new thinking, our biggest hurdle is challenging the "fundamental attribution error" that is a human trait. Interestingly if you look at this then people of Asia decent see the world differently to the typical "Westerners" See Cultural differences in correspondence bias

 

You see the two year provisional licence as a time to build experience, I totally agree, if there was a proper standard to reach at the end of the two years. But there is no standard. There is no "real world" test of competency. The UK's DVSA set the UK standard, this is far from perfect as it is operated by civil servants looking for promotion, rather than career road safety professionals. We often referred to it as the "Different Standards Agency". However the base line training requirement is there, not perfect, but at least it offers a base line standard far in excess of what is required in Thailand. 

 

I am not familiar with Canada, but the majority of provisional training for test in the UK is done on road with experienced qualified driving instructors. Doing the right thing badly is far better than doing the wrong thing well. Spending many years as an instructor trainer has meant I have heard all sorts of complete and utter rubbish taught to people about riding and driving, without proper instruction, people make up things that work based on experience, this may appear to work to a point, but there are often reasons people are taught by qualified Instructors rather than family.  That is why the whole system in Thailand needs addressing. Proper on-road real world interactive training required. 

 

That is why I have proposed Road Safety Ambassadors

I thought I said one day learning the rules of the road and then doing the written test, and then after passing that test 5 days on the road driving in the city with an instructor, and thus learning to drive in the city and highway. I guess you missed that as I never said anything about her driving in a parking lot only. Although she may have the first half hour to get the feel of the car first. 

 

Let's face it. Driving a car is easy. It is not like driving a 747 or an 18 Wheeler with 2 Trailers following along. Once you get the feel of the steering wheel, when to change gears, and to signal, these action become automatic. After a short time you don't even have to think about making these moves anymore.

 

In there lies the problem. It is because this is so easy that people think they can do other things while driving, like sing along with the radio, or look for the right channel, or a place to turn off to eat, or talk to friends on the cell phone, which causes accidents. That they don't need to concentrate on the driving but do need to on the things that are going on around them and the road conditions, as this can change in a heartbeat. 

 

To propose more driver training to learn how to operate a motor vehicle seems logical, as practice makes perfect. But it also seems unnecessary to me as they should be able to do that on there own, and without having to pay some high priced driver instructor to get this practice and experience on the road.

 

What needs to change is the driver's attitude when behind the wheel, which they are not going to get from some book. Although some safety films showing what can happen to you while talking on your mobile phone and thus you run into another car won't hurt either. Road Rage seems to be a big factor in Thailand. To be honest it pisses my wife off when someone cuts in front of her suddenly and with no signal at all, and she has to break suddenly. I guess this pisses most people off to. 

 

But what I try to teach my wife is that it does not matter who is right or wrong. When you are in a hospital with a broken neck and need someone to feed you and change your diaper everyday for the rest of your life, who cares he was wrong? This seems to calm her down and she is better at this now. Then I tell her that when she passes this SOB to honk her horn and give him the finger. It pisses me off to!

 

I don't know if Canadians are better drivers, but I do know we have severe road conditions to drive on from summer through winter. Unless you have been their yourself you have no idea what it is like to drive through a blizzard which suddenly turns into a total white out. Believe me, you will know when that old rectum sphincter muscle starts twitching and then your attention span goes to 100%, and your learning curve goes up by 300%. Take it from me.     

 

[dcnx]

As long as you can pay the police 200b when you get caught without a license, minus the insurance side of it, there is no reason to get one.

[LannaGuy]

I asked my date please use the indicator... she said "what's that"?  I said go look please and see if it's working...

 

she went around the rear of the vehicle and said

 

"yes it is... oh no it's not... yes it is now...oh it's gone off again"

[thai3]

My mrs did not know you have to stop at a zebra crossing, seems a lot of them don't

 

 

[aussieinthailand]

Most of the people where I live just buy their license because they cant pass the test.

Then there's the Police apathy in not enforcing the road laws, the place I live BIB at the main intersection only gets out of his little air con both to get his chicken and sticky rice followed by another bottle of the local rot gut brew.

And then there's the medium to large intersections that have traffic lights but they are turned off.

Then there's the 8 year old girl with little brother on a motor bike no license, no helmet, and no clue, driving on the wrong side of the road then pulling out onto a main road without looking or stopping because that's what mum n dad do so it must be ok...

[thai3]

There was a poster on here who said he was (rightly) horrified when his mrs pulled out at a busy junction with her eyes closed. When asked why she did it she said her instructor told her to, or she would never have the nerve to do it. 

[Rancid]

22 hours ago, Psimbo said:

The driving test will become harder- you now have to slide 6k under the table instead of 5.

 

I always remember being told i had past a test, not become a better driver, as seems to be the case here.

Exactly, the more difficult any bureaucratic process the more it costs to circumvent it.

 

My wife passed her license honestly, now she has it I am teaching her how to actually drive.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Rancid
add

[Basil B]

I feel that there should be a minimum International standard for acquiring a driving licence that would be internationally recognised...

 

Apart from demonstrating driving skills, security to prevent corruption as well.

[Lingba]

waste of time...we all know what needs to be done

[metisdead]

Off topic posts about the driving test standards or driving conditions in the UK have been removed. 

 

Posts containing derogatory generalizations toward Thais have been removed. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

1 hour ago, CarolJadzia said:

@GOLDBUGGY Just read your post again. You said your wife learned to drive at a "Driver Training from a Private School in Udon Thani" this intrigued me as I have not found any schools offering five day driving courses anywhere in Thailand before, so sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

I understand there is the Ubon Thani driving school that says it is registered with the Thai government. 

I would like to know more about them, shame their website is not working. Is the school the one mentioned here:- http://www.udonmap.com/en/udonthani-business/transport-a-motoring/driving-schools/udon-driving-school.html ?

 

It has been a general assumption that people must pass the test before being allowed to drive on the road in Thailand. As the test is off-road, the training for the test is also generally off road. So I assume this "private school" has prepared its own training syllabus, so would be really interested to know what they are teaching.

 

@Basil B It is impossible to regulate for an international standard test as every country has different issues and standards. Even if you look at the UK standards there are two. One is the test standard required to get a licence. Then there is the advanced standard that contains contradictions to the Test standard. How silly is that? Internationally we have all sorts of anomalies. The USA and Canada teach people how to do emergency braking on a motorcycle that is based on research done in Quebec. However we consider in the UK the research is flawed and can clearly demonstrate why it is limited in it's assumptions. If on UK test you were to demonstrate braking in the manner taught in the States it would be an instant fail. That is one example of many. 

 

Yes we do need an international standard. But that will not come from the current "Safety 1" compliance approach to road safety. 

People need to understand safety is a personal thing that requires ongoing learning over many years. The majority of accidents happen between normal everyday people doing normal everyday things. Certainly not all caused by the horrible nasty law breaking Drunk, distracted, drugged, old, inexperienced, young, reckless other road users. That is why on international road safety professional forums the talk is now of addressing fundamental attribution error first. 

 

To understand this new thinking this article makes a good read "Hypercomplience, too much of a good thing?"

 

 

thairoadcraft.wordpress.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

After confirming with my wife this school you linked is the correct one in Udon Thani. The Thai Translation to English is called "Smart Drive." They are indeed registered with the Thai Government. My wife did her complete training and testing their and all she had to do when finished is to take this test results to the Transport Office and was issued a Driver License right away. No further testing required. 

 

As to this school itself, you don't need a vehicle to register at this school, as they don't use yours but instead use there own. They have several cars and trucks to choose from. There hours of training was also quite flexible but not an issue for us. My wife was very impressed with this school and liked going to these training sessions. She had nothing but praise for their instructors, which for my wife is a rare occurrence. 

 

To answer your question your past assumption that people in Thailand must pass the test before they are allowed to drive on Thai Roads is incorrect. As mentioned my wife never drove a car in her life before this school and was allowed to drive on both the highway and in the city with an instructor. 

 

According to my wife the first day was a bit longer and on road rules and basics, in which they also learn how to adjust there seats, seat belts, mirrors, changing gears, signal lights, checking behind the vehicle, breaking, and how to start the car even. The second day was in the parking lot they have set up for driving, and like you mentioned, where they actually drive and practice backing up and parking. The third day was Highway Driving and Ring Road. The forth day was all city driving. The fifth day was the Road Test in which she did both Highway and City Driving and also wrote the Written Test. In which there where 50 questions and she needed 45 correct to pass, or 90%. 

 

The actual instruction time behind the wheel was probably closer to 1 hour a day for 5 days. But these training times are not written in stone.. If you need more instruction time you can get that. It all depends in how well you do on the road. In my wife's last day the instructor cut her time from 1 hour to 30 minutes during her road test as she had done well all 5 days, and they keep the same instructor for the same student. My wife never drove a car before this time, but she did have her motor bike license which I am sure helped her. But I am also sure there are students who need more training time and get that. 

 

I suppose I could have tried to teach my wife how to drive myself, but now that this is all over I am very glad I sent her to this Driver Training School. I just drove her their and than drank a few coffees while somebody else did all the work. I can't remember the exact cost except to say it really wasn't very much and well worth it. MY wife came out from not knowing how to drive at all, to a pretty good driver actually. I was surprised.  She is much better now but this school at least gave her the confidence to get to this level.  

[cumgranosalum]

One needs to bear in mind that many of those commenting on this thread have never had any training or took any kind of serious test before getting their own driving licences, yet somehow feel they were, are and always will be SUPERB drivers.

 

In all probablitiy  that it seems the DoLT has no real knowledge of and subsequent policies for road safety......so any testing they may impose is likely to be based on nothing more than a mixture of supposition and even superstition, so the whole thing is a total non-event. Until Thailand adopts all 5 tenets of road safety it will remain well and truly one of the top countries for road deaths per 100k population.

 

 

[GOLDBUGGY]

On another note concerning Driver Training Schools in Thailand, I also want to point out there was another one I went to in Pattaya which was also registered with the Thai Government and was equally as good as Udon Thani. This may be of some use to other Farangs who may be finding it difficult to switch there Foreign Driver's License into a Thai one. 

 

After spending some time in Thailand I decided to stay thus get a Thai Drivers License. So I went to the Transport Officer near Pattaya to exchange my Canadian Drivers License into a Thai one. Although I arrived early there was still a line up outside the door. When I finally got to speak to some bitchy woman, she instructed me that I had to go to the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok and get a sworn affidavit from them that this was indeed a Canadian Drivers License, and then get this translated by an Official Translator from English to Thai. 

 

Another problem I had was that my Canadian Drivers License had expired. In those days you had to renew your license yearly, and since I was out of the country then I could do that. So instead of all the hassle of going to Bangkok for a day or two, and trying to validate an Expired Drivers License, I decide to go to a Private Driver Training School in Pattaya the next day, and do whatever I had to to get a license. 

 

I was pleasantly surprised they understood English and I could talk to them, even though my Thai Wife was with me. After going over my Drivers License they decided I did not need to do the Driver Training or Road Test, since my Driver License hadn't expired for 5 years. So instead they gave me some test questions to study in English, and an hour later I wrote the Written test on their computer, in English also.

 

After passing that test the same day, I was given a paper in which I took to the Transport Office that afternoon to get both my Thai Drivers License and Motor Bike License. With that paper I did not have to wait in line. I was in and out in an hour. In my view a much better option then having to go all the way to Bangkok to get all these documents, and yet still having to deal with this Transport Office a few days later when I got back. 

[ChrisY1]

Just simply enforce current driving regulations.......that's enough for a start.

~70 people a day being killed on the roads.........likened to Allepo!

[CarolJadzia]

@GOLDBUGGY as I have been focused on the motorcycle side of things I had forgot speaking to a school a couple of years ago who also offered such training. It is a shame it is not however a requirement of the test. Just an add-on offered by some schools. 

While it is nice and positive to hear of your good experiences, in Los I would not be surprised by some equally harrowing bad experiences. As often discussed here on TVF, obtaining a driving licence in Thailand is not a difficult task as does not require any demonstration of on-road interactive skills. 

 

I think the biggest issue with this limited training is that learning to play by the rules only works when all around you are playing by the same rules. For the training to be fit for purpose in Thailand it has to take into considertation that many interactions are not going to be out of the same rule book.  

Edited August 21, 2016 by CarolJadzia
spelling correction

[cumgranosalum]

14 hours ago, Lingba said:

waste of time...we all know what needs to be done

Really? My observation is that most contributors to TV haven't a clue about driving skills or how they relate to road safety.

[cumgranosalum]

On August 20, 2016 at 7:08 AM, Briggsy said:

Like everything here, this has been passed through the, "Can I be bothered" filter. The result is the civil servants actually do nothing more whilst the candidates sit through 10 more questions and another hour of video.

 

Enforcement of the whole gamut of driving regulations by all agencies involved from the Land Transport Dept. to the police and the courts would yield tangible reductions in deaths and serious injury on the roads. However none of the enforcement agencies can be bothered so nothing will change.

focussing on single issues will never yield significant results.

[cumgranosalum]

On August 20, 2016 at 11:11 PM, GOLDBUGGY said:

I thought I said one day learning the rules of the road and then doing the written test, and then after passing that test 5 days on the road driving in the city with an instructor, and thus learning to drive in the city and highway. I guess you missed that as I never said anything about her driving in a parking lot only. Although she may have the first half hour to get the feel of the car first. 

 

Let's face it. Driving a car is easy. It is not like driving a 747 or an 18 Wheeler with 2 Trailers following along. Once you get the feel of the steering wheel, when to change gears, and to signal, these action become automatic. After a short time you don't even have to think about making these moves anymore.

 

In there lies the problem. It is because this is so easy that people think they can do other things while driving, like sing along with the radio, or look for the right channel, or a place to turn off to eat, or talk to friends on the cell phone, which causes accidents. That they don't need to concentrate on the driving but do need to on the things that are going on around them and the road conditions, as this can change in a heartbeat. 

 

To propose more driver training to learn how to operate a motor vehicle seems logical, as practice makes perfect. But it also seems unnecessary to me as they should be able to do that on there own, and without having to pay some high priced driver instructor to get this practice and experience on the road.

 

What needs to change is the driver's attitude when behind the wheel, which they are not going to get from some book. Although some safety films showing what can happen to you while talking on your mobile phone and thus you run into another car won't hurt either. Road Rage seems to be a big factor in Thailand. To be honest it pisses my wife off when someone cuts in front of her suddenly and with no signal at all, and she has to break suddenly. I guess this pisses most people off to. 

 

But what I try to teach my wife is that it does not matter who is right or wrong. When you are in a hospital with a broken neck and need someone to feed you and change your diaper everyday for the rest of your life, who cares he was wrong? This seems to calm her down and she is better at this now. Then I tell her that when she passes this SOB to honk her horn and give him the finger. It pisses me off to!

 

I don't know if Canadians are better drivers, but I do know we have severe road conditions to drive on from summer through winter. Unless you have been their yourself you have no idea what it is like to drive through a blizzard which suddenly turns into a total white out. Believe me, you will know when that old rectum sphincter muscle starts twitching and then your attention span goes to 100%, and your learning curve goes up by 300%. Take it from me.     

 

Knowing how to operate a vehicle is not the same as being able to drive safely.

[Lingba]

8 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

Really? My observation is that most contributors to TV haven't a clue about driving skills or how they relate to road safety.

 

Yeah well this contributor has a Hell of a lot more understanding and proper use of basic driving skills and road safety than most Thai drivers...I would bet my savings on it

[GOLDBUGGY]

3 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

Knowing how to operate a vehicle is not the same as being able to drive safely.

Absolutely true! But then nobody here is claiming this to be false either.

 

But I could turn your statement around a little bit and say to you that just because people know how to drive safely, it doesn't mean they will. This is because safety is 90% attitude and 10% know-how. This was the point I tried to get across about extra Driver Training. You can teach the safety rules but you can't really teach some to have a safety attitude.  

 

I bet there is a lot of people here right now who have driven for many years without an accident and consider themselves "Good Drivers". In this group I also bet that almost all of them know that speeding increases your chances of getting into an accident. That you shouldn't drive when you are tiered, and you shouldn't drive after drinking alcohol or taking drugs.

 

But in this large group of Good Drivers, I also bet there isn't one person who at one time or another didn't break one of these rules for one reason or another. Who took a chance! Who drove at a time or in a way in which they knew they shouldn't have as at that time it was unsafe to do so. But did anyway. 

 

It is not easy to change attitude and you certainly can't do this strictly by knowing the safety rules and increasing driver training.    

[cumgranosalum]

contrary to the popular belief amongst expats, Thailand does not have a monopoly on "stupid" drivers.....that figure as a percentage is a constant all over the world....what differs is how the driving/road safety environment is set up to stop them getting their way.

Edited August 24, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

Just spouting out one single perceived fault or solution doesn’t come near to effectively addressing the problems facing Thailand’s road system.

 

Education -

Yes driver training is only PART of this - the general public needs to understand the basics of road use, whether or not they are in a car. ...and just how good or effective is driver training in Thailand??

 

Enforcement -

Yes - what a good idea - but to enforce one needs primarily a police force that is educated in road law and safety. on top of this one needs clearly defined roads, signage lines monitoring (e.g. speed checks) and a whole raft of other things just to get started.

 

Engineering

A - This means the safety both passive and active in the vehicles on the roads - this has to include older vehicles as well as new.

B - This is the way roads themselves are built the designed to control traffic, Thailand is in the dark ages here. It also includes the proper maintenance of roads.

 

Emergency  -

Another area that Thailand falls flat on it’s face. It is well established that the time between someone is involved in an “accident” and when they receive medical help or get to a hospital is crucial for survival - even in the case of relatively minor injuries. Thailand has NO effective emergency services and the hospitals are a lottery.

 

Evaluation

After any accident in Europe, there is a thorough examination of the circumstances, human error, road surface, weather, light, the environment around the scene, everything is analysed so road safety practitioners can learn and improve the situation in the future.

In Thailand, they don’t eve repair damage to the road surface they wash away the blood

 

[CarolJadzia]

24 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

 

Just spouting out one single perceived fault or solution doesn’t come near to effectively addressing the problems facing Thailand’s road system.

 

 

Education -

 

Yes driver training is only PART of this - the general public needs to understand the basics of road use, whether or not they are in a car. ...and just how good or effective is driver training in Thailand??

 

 

 

Enforcement -

 

Yes - what a good idea - but to enforce one needs primarily a police force that is educated in road law and safety. on top of this one needs clearly defined roads, signage lines monitoring (e.g. speed checks) and a whole raft of other things just to get started.

 

 

 

Engineering

 

A - This means the safety both passive and active in the vehicles on the roads - this has to include older vehicles as well as new.

 

B - This is the way roads themselves are built the designed to control traffic, Thailand is in the dark ages here. It also includes the proper maintenance of roads.

 

 

 

Emergency  -

 

Another area that Thailand falls flat on it’s face. It is well established that the time between someone is involved in an “accident” and when they receive medical help or get to a hospital is crucial for survival - even in the case of relatively minor injuries. Thailand has NO effective emergency services and the hospitals are a lottery.

 

 

 

Evaluation

 

After any accident in Europe, there is a thorough examination of the circumstances, human error, road surface, weather, light, the environment around the scene, everything is analysed so road safety practitioners can learn and improve the situation in the future.

 

In Thailand, they don’t eve repair damage to the road surface they wash away the blood

 

 

 

 

The outdated three E's (excluding the emergency and Evaluation add ons)  have been proved over the last fifty years to fail to address the situation internationally, why would they start working now? They were developed by the American motor industry to divert attention from the poor safety record of their motor vehicles. If they worked then America would have the safest roads on the planet, that is far from the case. 

 

We are challenging this outdated thinking internationally as it has not worked anywhere, why would it start to address the problems in Thailand? Yes it does work to a point, but the enforcement is the biggest issue, with the other aspects relying on it to address the situation. The enforcement part has been seriously overstated for many years and has led to hypercompliance

 

Quote

Hypercompliance is a step back in time for safety and it flies in the face of all we have learned about human motivation, involvement and resultant safety performance. Much has been learned about human behavior since the days of Taylor. Regressive hypercompliance thinking, with its excessive rules and penalties, is an approach that will not lead to a safer workplace. Getting beyond performance plateaus takes critical thinking and new approaches, including those of an interdisciplinary nature. In evolution, there are many failures for every success. Perhaps it is time to move on.

 

[cumgranosalum]

2 hours ago, CarolJadzia said:

 

The outdated three E's (excluding the emergency and Evaluation add ons)  have been proved over the last fifty years to fail to address the situation internationally, why would they start working now? They were developed by the American motor industry to divert attention from the poor safety record of their motor vehicles. If they worked then America would have the safest roads on the planet, that is far from the case. 

 

We are challenging this outdated thinking internationally as it has not worked anywhere, why would it start to address the problems in Thailand? Yes it does work to a point, but the enforcement is the biggest issue, with the other aspects relying on it to address the situation. The enforcement part has been seriously overstated for many years and has led to hypercompliance

 

 

They are not outdated - period.

I suspect you are one of those people who "knows" everything but understands nothing.

your'e just out of touch - I've seen this before - someone with limited conp-rehension reads up on a "new" idea about road safety, fails to understand how it fits in the scheme of things and then erroneously concludes that it out dates or renders obsolete all previous thinking.

 

you even have the history wrong.

 

...and if you think that hypercompliance can be applied to road safety situation in Thailand then I suggest you re-assess your understanding of the meaning....in other words, you seem to have the wrong end of the stick

Edited August 24, 2016 by cumgranosalum