Bangkok Rock Festival 2007 Cancelled Due To Alcohol Ban

[bkkandrew]

Have been a lurker here for many years and feel compelled to throw in my 2 cents on this subject. This upcoming ban on alcohol advertising was brought about by the Ministry of Heath's desire to reduce the number of alcohol related road fatalities. Particularly those people driving motorbikes. Maybe I'm thinking too logically, but wouldn't enforcing a nationwide helmet law that already exists instantly reduce the number of motorbike deaths? On the rare occasions when I'm in BKK, I do notice more bikers wearing helmets, but here in Chiang Mai I would conservatively guess that less than 40% of people on motorbikes are wearing helmets, and I include policemen as well. When we make our annual trek to Roi Et, that number drops to 15 - 20%.

I think banning alcohol sales at gas stations, especially those on highways, is a good idea. Yet it seems that nothing is being done to restrict the number of roadside stands that sell lao khao ...... day or night. I can't buy a bottle of wine or a case of warm beer at Lotus between 3 and 5 PM, but I can drive around the corner on my motorbike (with no helmet) and drink rice whiskey 'til I'm blind.

I do expect to see a price war on beer once the ban takes effect. If anything will encourage more alcohol consumption it's cheaper alcohol. Why not allow the companies to advertise ..... responsibly (ie: no happy social drinking, or showing only helmet wearing motorcyclists), and at the same time force them to match their ad money - baht for baht - and set up a special fund to help out the education system in Thailand? Yeah, I know, I'm dreaming. Oh well, just a thought.

Indeed. The law of unintended consequences will indeed be at work here..

Drinks companies that cannot compete by persuading their customers by advertising will use the same budget to compete on price. More drinking inevitable, yet it is also the type of drinking that will worsen, as it has with the example given above. A purchaser of a well marketed bottle of wine is rather unlikely to uncork it on the way home and drink it from the bottle on the street, whilst sitting next to their motorcycle there are proposing to drive. On the other hand, this is an everyday and typical occurrence with newly proud owners of bottles of lao khao...

[s.pylos]

If Islamic values tend towards trying to protect life ahead of corporations wealth, then go Islam!

I welcome the kingdoms new leadership in moving us more closer to the values of Islam.

.. and more of the usual rubbish from ignorant expats...

Doesn't Buddhism ask to refrain from the consumption of alcohol???

It is one the 5 basic buddhist precept undertaken by the novice AND the laity....

Here are the five

1. To refrain from taking life.

2. To refrain from taking that which is not freely given (stealing).

3. To refrain from sensual misconduct (improper sexual behavior, gluttony etc.)

4. To refrain from incorrect speech (lying, harsh language, slander, idle chit-chat).

5. To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness.

[sandy]]

[farang prince]

Well, it's more likely that they would find other (maybe not "another") sponsors. Formula One managed the transition away from the tobacco industry in a reasonably short time frame (I believe they announced it mid-season, and it came into effect the following year). I mentioned it before here, the solution to the problem of replacing one big sponsor, is easily solved if you don't try to replace it with another big sponsor. Many smaller companies might be delighted to finally have a chance to stick their name on billboard at the end of the main straight because Fosters aren't hogging the whole show anymore.

Life goes on.

You are showing your lack of knowledge of business Pal78. Sponsoring major rock concerts or sporting events costs millions of dollars and requires extensive marketing infrastructure. Obviously small companies don't have the dollars and certainly don't have the marketing capabilities. Even if they joined forces, they might come up with the money (note the "might" because in reality it is unlikely) but they can't put together the marketing capabilities to make the project worthwhile to them downstream. I love you guys who think that rock concerts or sporting events "just happen." They take an incredible amount of work and require a team of very talented individuals to make it happen. Thailand can certainly take whatever view they want about allowing alcohol advertising or cigarette advertising, but don't forget the Thai government is also making the country hostile to multi-national companies. This does not bode well for the financial future of Thailand. So does tightening the screws on the liquor companies really accomplish the goals of the Thai government? Time will tell. Let's see where the government intrudes next...because it will.

[Maigo6]

Alcohol ads have been banned in some European countries for around 30 years

Oh, so that's why you never see drunken Englshmen in Thailand............

[kmart]

Doesn't Buddhism ask to refrain from the consumption of alcohol???

It is one the 5 basic buddhist precept undertaken by the novice AND the laity....

Here are the five

1. To refrain from taking life.

2. To refrain from taking that which is not freely given (stealing).

3. To refrain from sensual misconduct (improper sexual behavior, gluttony etc.)

4. To refrain from incorrect speech (lying, harsh language, slander, idle chit-chat).

5. To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness.

[sandy]]

Thailand really shouldn't call itself a Buddhist country......

-Ignorant expat-

[khunstuart]

Even though politicians have been trying to do this from the crack of dawn.

Do you really mean "the dawn of time"?

the "crack" of dawn sounds more interesting

[peter48]

Oh Tourist Thailand you are losing the plot

[peter48]

banning Bangkok concerts ---Oh Tourist Thailand you are losing the plot

[s.pylos]

Doesn't Buddhism ask to refrain from the consumption of alcohol???

It is one the 5 basic buddhist precept undertaken by the novice AND the laity....

Here are the five

1. To refrain from taking life.

2. To refrain from taking that which is not freely given (stealing).

3. To refrain from sensual misconduct (improper sexual behavior, gluttony etc.)

4. To refrain from incorrect speech (lying, harsh language, slander, idle chit-chat).

5. To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness.

[sandy]]

Thailand really shouldn't call itself a Buddhist country......

-Ignorant expat-

Shoud Britain and the US call themselves Christian countries ?

[kmart]

Doesn't Buddhism ask to refrain from the consumption of alcohol???

It is one the 5 basic buddhist precept undertaken by the novice AND the laity....

Here are the five

1. To refrain from taking life.

2. To refrain from taking that which is not freely given (stealing).

3. To refrain from sensual misconduct (improper sexual behavior, gluttony etc.)

4. To refrain from incorrect speech (lying, harsh language, slander, idle chit-chat).

5. To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness.

[sandy]]

Thailand really shouldn't call itself a Buddhist country......

-Ignorant expat-

Shoud Britain and the US call themselves Christian countries ?

Loosely, yes. If they weren't so frightened of calling "Christmas" anything but that, for fear of

offending some minority / ethnic vote bloc.

Religion doesn't really measure up to modern standards / scrutiny, does it?

[wolfmanjack]

I personally have never seen an ad for beer and then got up to go get one. I have never been driving down the road and saw a billboard for a beer that made me stop and buy one at the time. I agree that an ad might encourage me to try that brand if I have never tried it before but if I don't like it I won't drink it. I hate chang beer and will not drink it even when it is offered for free. No amount of advertising will change that. I drink when I want. The only things that encourages me to drink are when my wife starts complaining or if friends come over with beer. So based on my experience they should make a law that ones wife can not complain or nag. That will decrease the amount of alcholism in any country.

You wouldn't even consider it? I hate Chang too, but.................. OK I admit it I'm a cheap charlie.

I don't even consider it. I tried before on occasions when there was nothing else around and got a headache every time. Now I will do without or drive to the store and buy anything else that is available. Even Lao Khao mixed with lime juice is better.

[excite]

Well, it's more likely that they would find other (maybe not "another") sponsors. Formula One managed the transition away from the tobacco industry in a reasonably short time frame (I believe they announced it mid-season, and it came into effect the following year). I mentioned it before here, the solution to the problem of replacing one big sponsor, is easily solved if you don't try to replace it with another big sponsor. Many smaller companies might be delighted to finally have a chance to stick their name on billboard at the end of the main straight because Fosters aren't hogging the whole show anymore.

Life goes on.

You are showing your lack of knowledge of business Pal78. Sponsoring major rock concerts or sporting events costs millions of dollars and requires extensive marketing infrastructure. Obviously small companies don't have the dollars and certainly don't have the marketing capabilities. Even if they joined forces, they might come up with the money (note the "might" because in reality it is unlikely) but they can't put together the marketing capabilities to make the project worthwhile to them downstream. I love you guys who think that rock concerts or sporting events "just happen." They take an incredible amount of work and require a team of very talented individuals to make it happen. Thailand can certainly take whatever view they want about allowing alcohol advertising or cigarette advertising, but don't forget the Thai government is also making the country hostile to multi-national companies. This does not bode well for the financial future of Thailand. So does tightening the screws on the liquor companies really accomplish the goals of the Thai government? Time will tell. Let's see where the government intrudes next...because it will.

Farang Prince

I agree with you about the naivety of some of the comments regarding changing sponsorships.Sure that will need to be addressed for the future but I can undersatand Rivermans position.

The lead times for an event such as the music festival run to many months. The bulk of the capex is certainly many months up front in terms of venue and artists booking fees most of which are paid in escrow at time of booking and many months in advance.

I hope riverman doesnt lose heart in what is a difficult business to make a succes of in Thailand.

Keep the music coming Riverman and good luck with finding a major sponsor.

Excite

[wimster]

You are showing your lack of knowledge of business Pal78. Sponsoring major rock concerts or sporting events costs millions of dollars and requires extensive marketing infrastructure.

I agree with you about the naivety of some of the comments regarding changing sponsorships.Sure that will need to be addressed for the future but I can undersatand Rivermans position.

Know anything about this? Guess not. It does not cost millions of dollars to sponsor major rock concerts, and certainly not in Thailand. Get your facts right before you write something.

The lead times for an event such as the music festival run to many months. The bulk of the capex is certainly many months up front in terms of venue and artists booking fees most of which are paid in escrow at time of booking and many months in advance.

That's correct. And the reason they did not get any (ticket selling) bands. THAT's the reason for the cancellation, not the alcohol sponsor ban.

I hope riverman doesnt lose heart in what is a difficult business to make a succes of in Thailand.

Keep the music coming Riverman and good luck with finding a major sponsor.

If they continue to put on events that are badly promoted and loose money for partners and sponsors like BKK100Rock and Keane they should stay out of this business in Thailand (Riverman does not put up the money!)

Edited November 23, 2006 by wimster

[simon jr]

The new laws do sound islamic.

[simon jr]

Have been a lurker here for many years and feel compelled to throw in my 2 cents on this subject. This upcoming ban on alcohol advertising was brought about by the Ministry of Heath's desire to reduce the number of alcohol related road fatalities. Particularly those people driving motorbikes. Maybe I'm thinking too logically, but wouldn't enforcing a nationwide helmet law that already exists instantly reduce the number of motorbike deaths? On the rare occasions when I'm in BKK, I do notice more bikers wearing helmets, but here in Chiang Mai I would conservatively guess that less than 40% of people on motorbikes are wearing helmets, and I include policemen as well. When we make our annual trek to Roi Et, that number drops to 15 - 20%.

I think banning alcohol sales at gas stations, especially those on highways, is a good idea. Yet it seems that nothing is being done to restrict the number of roadside stands that sell lao khao ...... day or night. I can't buy a bottle of wine or a case of warm beer at Lotus between 3 and 5 PM, but I can drive around the corner on my motorbike (with no helmet) and drink rice whiskey 'til I'm blind.

I do expect to see a price war on beer once the ban takes effect. If anything will encourage more alcohol consumption it's cheaper alcohol. Why not allow the companies to advertise ..... responsibly (ie: no happy social drinking, or showing only helmet wearing motorcyclists), and at the same time force them to match their ad money - baht for baht - and set up a special fund to help out the education system in Thailand? Yeah, I know, I'm dreaming. Oh well, just a thought.

Indeed. The law of unintended consequences will indeed be at work here..

Drinks companies that cannot compete by persuading their customers by advertising will use the same budget to compete on price. More drinking inevitable, yet it is also the type of drinking that will worsen, as it has with the example given above. A purchaser of a well marketed bottle of wine is rather unlikely to uncork it on the way home and drink it from the bottle on the street, whilst sitting next to their motorcycle there are proposing to drive. On the other hand, this is an everyday and typical occurrence with newly proud owners of bottles of lao khao...

[kmart]

Agreed. Lao khao is the "crack cocaine" of alcohol, and the source of most alcoholism here.

[Zoltan]

--The Nation 2006-11-22

Alcohol advertsing ban:

Pin-up calendar could be a date

Soooo, I'm in the States Until Dec. 18th - How can I get a calendar before Dec. 3rd?????

I want a Calender too but wont be there untill January...... ......

[rayw]

Have you tried the new Chang Draft, it is bloody wonderful and only a couple of Baht more per bottle, so much smother and a sensible 5% 'ish alcohol instead of the 6.5% of normal Chang. Whoops having said I agree no booze advertising there I go advertising a new booze.

I personally have never seen an ad for beer and then got up to go get one. I have never been driving down the road and saw a billboard for a beer that made me stop and buy one at the time. I agree that an ad might encourage me to try that brand if I have never tried it before but if I don't like it I won't drink it. I hate chang beer and will not drink it even when it is offered for free. No amount of advertising will change that. I drink when I want. The only things that encourages me to drink are when my wife starts complaining or if friends come over with beer. So based on my experience they should make a law that ones wife can not complain or nag. That will decrease the amount of alcholism in any country.

You wouldn't even consider it? I hate Chang too, but.................. OK I admit it I'm a cheap charlie.

I don't even consider it. I tried before on occasions when there was nothing else around and got a headache every time. Now I will do without or drive to the store and buy anything else that is available. Even Lao Khao mixed with lime juice is better.

[pal78]

If Islamic values tend towards trying to protect life ahead of corporations wealth, then go Islam!

I welcome the kingdoms new leadership in moving us more closer to the values of Islam.

I mentioned it before and if you look at the big picture Thailand is moving towards Islamic rule. Although some think it is just fantasy thinking. Which I hope it is!

But I must say pal78 where do Islamic values protect life? A girl was just gang raped in an Islamic country and she received a harder sentence for being raped than the people who rapped her. Islam is a racist religion that does not protect life, it is a violent religion meant to reward men for what ever the men can get away with.

First, my statement was in response to a sarcastic comment. I've covered this before. I am not a proponent of Islam. Notice the IF...... THEN..... structure of my post? I am not saying Islam is anything. I am following up on dplasts statement. Please read the other posts where I've tried to deal with this.

Come on, I thought it would have been obvious if you start a sentence with IF, then it's no the same as one without.

HOWEVER .... Injustices happen everywhere. But we don't tend to take each example of this and use it as a beating stick for the main religion in that country, and follow it up by condemning the complete area that the country belongs to.

[pal78]

If Islamic values tend towards trying to protect life ahead of corporations wealth, then go Islam!

I welcome the kingdoms new leadership in moving us more closer to the values of Islam.

.. and more of the usual rubbish from ignorant expats...

Doesn't Buddhism ask to refrain from the consumption of alcohol???

It is one the 5 basic buddhist precept undertaken by the novice AND the laity....

Here are the five

1. To refrain from taking life.

2. To refrain from taking that which is not freely given (stealing).

3. To refrain from sensual misconduct (improper sexual behavior, gluttony etc.)

4. To refrain from incorrect speech (lying, harsh language, slander, idle chit-chat).

5. To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness.

[sandy]]

Okay, I've answered this twice now. You are misunderstanding my post. And probably that of the other poster as well.

If you read it again, and read what else I wrote on here, I think you might find that neither one of us was suggesting that Islam was promoting anything.

Neither did I suggest that Buddhism did or didn't say anything either. Thanks anyway.

[mikew]

come on just have a beer and don't worry about it.

[corkscrew]

I guess they will have to repaint this downtown icon.

[pal78]

come on just have a beer and don't worry about it.

Cheers!

[opothai]

Agreed. Lao khao is the "crack cocaine" of alcohol, and the source of most alcoholism here.

all the thais i know only drink beers when i or the other falangs in the village buy it.

this ban is going to have zero effect.

until the government educate the thais about the dangers of lao khao and other home distilled alchohols i see nothing changing.

[BlackJack]

Islam straight ahead

[globez]

Thailand turns more and more into America ... but then, in America at least you may still drink.

Hardly America, but try any Islamic nation and you'll be on the right track.

yeah... sounds like the middle east in here... maybe we should ask the thai government to sponsor these events.....

[verdant]

The point of this thread is still valid.... as of the 3rd of Dec there is no more 'public' alco advertising allowed. Considering the ad agencies which promote alco brands in Thailand spend about 30% of their annual budgets in the last quarter of the year means a hel_l of a lot of agencies are struggling for business and many people will be losing their jobs.

Where is this money going to go? No more sponsorship means no more Chivas Elephant Polo, no more DJ Spondorship -- many clubs are going to suffer nationwide . Say goodbye to the jonnie Walker ads. Hua Hin Jazz festival -- no Heineken, hello green tea. Tiger Girls serving you a beer, forget it...public display supporting alcohol not allowed, no beer for the punter and no income for the beer girl serving.

Anyone seen an ad for Lao Kao lately???

[gharknes]

When the fag companies were banned out of sports in the UK the negative effects to the sporting events and related industries (advertising, printing etc) were short lived.

The cost to Thailand if a few advertising companies go under and they miss out on a few rock concerts would be a small price to pay IF the ban saves even one life. Around 14,000 people die on Thai roads annually. 80%+ of these deaths are drink related. And that represents only one of the negative effects alcohol has on society.

Less drinking, less puking, less hangovers, less hospital visits, lower insurance, safer roads etc.

A very good news indeed !

Let's wait a few more month, to have other cancelations. And then, maybe, the government will start to understand that they should review their ridiculous face-based decision...

Sponsorship is only the tip of the iceberg... Actually, it's a big economic blow to the advertising and printing industries. That's the main issue.

Less activities, less revenues, less VAT, less taxes, etc.

Face has a price. They will pay it. At no discount.

now that's the stupidest post i've read here yet, advertising has nothing to do with drink driving, perhaps a sponsored campain and some advertising from the drink companies about drinking and driving might be the way to go, I don't think any manufacturing ccompany in the world would support driving while drunk, seperate issues, you think everyone will stop drinking because there are no adds......are you for real.

Yes I am. I'm sorry you think it's stupid, but I've researched it and it's possible for you to do the same. Try typing, "arguments for ban on alcohol advertising" in google. You might be able to find a link to some research papers on the subject. One (from a little school called MIT) has data suggesting that if there was a ban on broadcast advertising (only) with no bans on advertising for events etc, then around 3,000 lives would be saved (in the US at the time the study was carried out).

I never said that "everyone will stop drinking", read back to what I did say. Oh wait, I'll just say it again and try and make it clear....

IF the ban saves EVEN ONE LIFE, then isn't that worth inconveniencing a few rockers booze makers and a few advertising firms?

And "adds" is "ad" in this case, short word for advertisement. Also "separate" not "seperate... and "campaign" not "campain". (Sorry, but just check your spelling before you send a post to tell someone else that what they wrote is stupid. And check your facts after that. And then be sure that you read the other person's post properly and try to understand what they were actually saying.

If people drink, they might get drunk... if they get drunk they might drink drive and are then more likely to crash. People who crash are more likely to get hurt or hurt others than people who don't crash. You follow? It's not really rocket science is it?

And advertising products does effect sales, otherwise they wouldn't spend millions of baht on ads would they? So taking the ads away should have a negative effect on sales, right?

Less alcohol sales = less drunks = less drunk drivers = less crashes = less roadkill

I am sure MIT had a much more involved formulation for their conclusions, but I suspect that mine are reasonably accurate.

how does "full of it" sound

I studdied statistical analysis and I'm sorry but it ain't as simple as that..........it's all open to a slant from the origin of the survey, ban gun sale and nobody will be shot, ban driving and nobody will be killed by a car, ban airplanes and nobody will ever die in an air accident, ban motorsport and nobody will ever be killed in a track accident...............want me to continue

what you are talking is just subjective bullshit, you don't ban motorsport you try to improve the safety, you don't ban drinking or anything associated with it, you try to improve the environment around it i.e. discourage people from jumping into a car while drunk, you will never stop people drinking, advertising has nothin to do with drinking alchohol - it is the brewers saying to people "that drink" "our product is better than theirs" it's called competition, you obviously don't take too much of the evil fountain yourself ...eh sorry but i'm a sinner and love it

[gharknes]

Many people are arguing against the alcohol advertising ban by citing statistics that in Norway and other countries the alcohol consumption rate increased when advertising stopped. This is really an indictment against the effectiveness of advertising and marketing in general. Billions of baht wasted on advertising every year in Thailand to achieve a decrease in consumption over what would have been consumed if no baht were wasted! Or are they coloring their statistics with wishful thinking!

up to them .....but they do give use something back for all the money we spend............concerts and live music..........am i missing something

[farang prince]

You are showing your lack of knowledge of business Pal78. Sponsoring major rock concerts or sporting events costs millions of dollars and requires extensive marketing infrastructure.

I agree with you about the naivety of some of the comments regarding changing sponsorships.Sure that will need to be addressed for the future but I can undersatand Rivermans position.

Know anything about this? Guess not. It does not cost millions of dollars to sponsor major rock concerts, and certainly not in Thailand. Get your facts right before you write something.

You need to read my posts a little more closely wimster. I said "Sponsoring major rock concerts or sporting events costs millions of dollars...." That encompasses all their sponsorships, not just one single event. But any one of these events is not cheap. So YOU get YOUR facts right before YOU write something.

Edited November 23, 2006 by farang prince