Crackdown On "back-to-back" Tourist Visas

[sabaijai]

Sassie, two woman friends of mine, both Americans, both married to Thai men, got Thai citizenship when their husbands simply applied to ohn chaat ("confer citizenship") on their behalf. Thai men have this right, Thai women don't (although accotrding to the 97 constitution, of course, men and women in Thailand have equal rights but so far this is one very large exception).

Someone else on this forum has insisted that there's an income requirement for foreign women using this method to obtain citizenship but I can tell you that neither of my friends had to show any income whatsoever (and neither of them works, so their only income is what their Thai husbands provide).

I'd suggest you approach a Thai embassy or consulate for the full regs. Or have your husband do it, probably better if he does it.

Good luck.

[ChiangMaiThai]

I would like to know how to by pass restrictions placed on the habitual back-2-back visa goer's without abusing any visa laws?

If I went to Malaysia for two months, would I render earlier visa runs Void there by allowing me to apply for further extensions without any undue worry?

Thaimee.

Very, very good question. After you leave the country, how long do you have to be gone for in order for your last trip to be considered a thing of the past? If you asked 10 different immigration officers, you'd get 10 different opinions. And therein lies the problem.

How many people do you think stay here long term on 30 day stays? i'd say it would be in the 10's of thousands. Before they deport them all, it would be nice if they at least explained the rules clearly.

[sabaijai]

Certainly getting permanent residency, for example, is much more difficult in Thailand than in the US, Canada or Australia. Naturalisation is also more difficult -- close to impossible, in fact, for a Caucasian male -- here.

You're out of your mind. My sister (an American) married a foreigner (a Mexican) a couple years ago, and it has been a major, major pain in the butt trying to get his visa situation straightened out so that he can stay in the US, work, eventually get a green card and citizenship.

I got permanent residency in Thailand a couple years ago with absolutely no pain whatsoever -- and I'm not even married to a Thai.

As for naturalization in Thailand, I have not yet applied so do not know what difficulties (if any) that entails. I am going to give it a try once I have had my PR for a couple more years.

Hmmm I think you're out of YOUR mind dick or else failed to comprehend my post . Mexico falls into my definition of a third-world country, one dominated by a single political party for 72+ years, so it doesn't qualify for the comparison.

For a foreign male to get PR in Thailand requires three consecutive years on a work permit and NON visa, plus proof of taxes paid, etc. PR in the US requires only that you marry a US national, regardless of gender and with no income/tax requirements.

Even in the case of a foreign woman applying for Thai citizenship via her Thai husband, the couple must show a minimum income (about 10 times the national average). Applying for permanent residency or naturalisation via marriage in the USA, Canada and Australia requires no min income.

As I wrote, some areas of immigration law compare differently. Tourist visas are much easier to obtain for Thaland than in the US/Aus/Canada. That's where the easy part ends though. In a nutshell, it's more difficult to enter developed countries initially but relatively easy to stay permanently once you're in. In Thailand it's the other way around, easy to enter temporarily, comparatively difficult to stay permanently.

Hence to call Thai immigration laws 'extremely liberal' seems a bit far-fetched to me.

[sbk]

Sassie, two woman friends of mine, both Americans, both married to Thai men, got Thai citizenship when their husbands simply applied to ohn chaat ("confer citizenship") on their behalf. Thai men have this right, Thai women don't (although accotrding to the 97 constitution, of course, men and women in Thailand have equal rights but so far this is one very large exception).

Someone else on this forum has insisted that there's an income requirement for foreign women using this method to obtain citizenship but I can tell you that neither of my friends had to show any income whatsoever (and neither of them works, so their only income is what their Thai husbands provide).

I'd suggest you approach a Thai embassy or consulate for the full regs. Or have your husband do it, probably better if he does it.

Good luck.

Sabaijai, when did your friends apply for citizenship? We were told in November by the Special Branch police in Bangkok that the income requirement was relatively new. And the income requirement applies to the Thai husband. If your friends have applied for and received citizenship after November then I would be very interested if you could have them contact me to give me their experiences first hand.

Otherwise, Sassie, I can tell you what the special branch guy told my husband, 1) he must have an income of at least 30,000 b a month and have paid taxes on it.

2) I have to be able to speak Thai and sing the national anthem 3) I have to have had a one year extension for some years, can't remember the amount of time but as I have been here for 12 years I qualified on that point and 4) you must apply in the province your husband is registered in, which we tried to do and no one at the police station (provincial hq and city hq) knew how to do, did not even know it was their job.

So, you can see Sabaijai, I have checked this out and had major difficulties, which is why I would love to hear about your friends experiences, perhaps they have some way around this for me.

[bernard]

possom,

from reading 5 pages of this, I think nobody knows the answer to your question. All through the reading I have been asking myself the same question. Looks like we shall have to wait and see. I do thoroughly agree that we should know the answers before and before we get turned back at the point of entry.

I thought this site was supposed to have 'experts' on the subject. Hence, thaivisa.com.

Maybe, somebody will have a definitive answer in a few days time. Keep looking.

[ChiangMaiThai]

possom,

from reading 5 pages of this, I think nobody knows the answer to your question. All through the reading I have been asking myself the same question. Looks like we shall have to wait and see. I do thoroughly agree that we should know the answers before and before we get turned back at the point of entry.

I thought this site was supposed to have 'experts' on the subject. Hence, thaivisa.com.

Maybe, somebody will have a definitive answer in a few days time. Keep looking.

Nobody knows. Its that simple. Really. Its not logical or rational, but really, no one knows.

[thaimee]

Having communicated with other expats i've unearthed other facts which appear to confuse the issue once again. My apologies...

Q: Is this correct that back-2back visa runs gain only in 'pure fact' entry stamps into Thailand and NOT per say Visa's in our passport?

I apologise if the question is Dutch!

Another alarming fact, when we give our TM card to the immigration guys at the re-entry point into Thailand we are technically responsible for filling in the part where it states where you reside.

For the most point i've never done that and have been living at numerous addresses as to the whim and delight of the courier's imagination. Bogus indeed!

Meaning every time we finalise a back-2-back visa we are part helping ourselves when we inform immigration where we reside, but we aren't doing so if Joe Bloggs is doing it for us and we must assume this is another example where we have unwittigly broken some point of the notification act.

As for deportation, i've learnt new facts. It appears there are different grades of deportation. One which allows you to re-enter after a short period and another which we are familiar with which grants us the opportunity to re-enter after six months.

Any truths to any of the above discoveries?

Thaimee.

[bangkokblue]

possom,

from reading 5 pages of this, I think nobody knows the answer to your question. All through the reading I have been asking myself the same question. Looks like we shall have to wait and see. I do thoroughly agree that we should know the answers before and before we get turned back at the point of entry.

I thought this site was supposed to have 'experts' on the subject. Hence, thaivisa.com.

Maybe, somebody will have a definitive answer in a few days time. Keep looking.

Nobody knows. Its that simple. Really. Its not logical or rational, but really, no one knows.

I reiterate that, simple as that. welcome to the LOS/ uncertainty.

[Sassie]

Thanks for the replies. I will ask my guy to check into for me at his end and see what he is told.

Sassie

[sabaijai]

Sbk, both friends got their citizenship a few years ago. The requirements you enumerated were all in place, except there was no income requirement. So if there's now an income req, there it is. I recall, too, that both applied and received citizenship in the provinces there husbands were from (Nakhon Phanom and Krabi, respectively).

[Sunbelt Asia]

This gentleman responding to this orginal post states the following:

"The regulation says “3 entries in a row, after which you must leave the country for a minimum of 6 months". (It was in fact clearly stated on the official Royal Thai Police Department’s web site until about a year ago).

It doesn’t matter if it’s 3 re-entries on the same visa (the loop hole with (mis)using a multi-entry tourist or business visa is going to be closed), or if you are coming with a new visa at every entry. It’s 3 entries (in /out within 2-3 days) in a row no matter what. And the Immigration officer doesn’t even have to check your stamps or previous visas. He just swap your passport through the reader, and the computer starts “Bip, bip, bip, bip,bip…..”.

(Now the not so smart ones will say, “Hey, I just throw my passport away and get a new one”. Doesn’t help. The old stamps/visas wont be there, correct, but all your data in the electronically read strip will be the same, which again is how you are registred in the central computer. Wupti, you got caught… )

Yes, it is a little confusing, because the regulative says “3 entries”, but it is at the 3’rd (third) entry you will be checked, not the 4th (fourth). On the other hand, if you can prove that you are living from money you are bringing in from abroad, then you will be allowed 5000 entries in a row if you like.

ATM receipts will do (that’s what tourists normally have), as long as you can prove that the card/account on which the money is drawn belongs to you. (To borrow ATM receipts from a friend won’t work). Whether your money comes from work, savings, or a rich aunt abroad doesn’t matter. You private economy doesn’t concern the Immigration, they just want to make sure that you aren’t working illegal or begging in the streets while you are here.

Real tourists will have no problems what so ever. They would still be able to do it the “old fashion” way. If they should trigger the “bip, bip” we won’t handcuff them, but maybe just have a little polite talk with them about what they are doing, and ask how they are able to finance such a long vacation. (And now you might ask, “Whom is going to have that talk with them; the officers can’t speak English”. And “yes” you’re right, that’s another problem we need to get solved).

But believe us, in most cases we do know who are “real tourists” and who aren’t, so we’ll use our common sense in each case too. The ‘bip, bip” is just a tool, just a tool. "

Source: http://www.thaiimmigration.com/inv/index.php?showtopic=53

Not sure if this is the official stance or just Nong Khai but this gentleman responding, does give concise answers on his or the Thai governments viewpoint.

I appluad their work on this.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[thaimee]

I'm pleased to find out that we need only show evidence of ATM receipt's to prove means of existence in the Kingdom. However the receipts i'd saved some months back i'd thrown out after spring cleaning (Story is true). So I will be sourcing to find out if there is another method! Cheers none the less Sunbelt Asia.

Perhaps the one document i'd saved which may or may not give support to an arguement is the sale of my house. I have an original sale of receipt from the sale and it shows the figure which would prove beyond doubt I have means to stay further. But those funds have been drawn and transfered to the Thai stock market. I do have other funds, but... is the documents story feasible enough to stay a longer duration?

Thaimee.

[Pi Sua]

Still that means we'll need to have to prove that a large amount of money comes regularly from abroad.

If only 10 or 20,000, it seem that's won't be enought even if it's truly enough to live here when you live in the countryside with your family.

So still the same "Welcome rich farang" ! In fact they do mind even not working here if we don't spend enough or if we are not "first class citizen" .

[unbiasbob]

guess we better start saving those ATM receipts. I've tossed quite a few but probably still have a few hundred grand worth I think

[Pi Sua]

Does the ATM receipts prove that you've got the money from abroad ?

[lopburi3]

It has the account number out to 19 digits where the local accounts only have 10 digits. They may also require proof the account belongs to you such as a bank statement with your name/account number.

[thaimee]

View my two questions to admin1 at the immigration forum..

I'll try to actively seek a solution. My alias is Garlic. You will note i've decided on a different angle, but I expect to elicit no valuable information to fix our woes as the question's are awkward to say the least. anyways...

www.thaiimmigration.com Thaimee.

[Pi Sua]

It has the account number out to 19 digits where the local accounts only have 10 digits.  They may also require proof the account belongs to you such as a bank statement with your name/account number.

Of course it's easy to know whether the account is local or not.

What I meant, for me I got some money tranfert from my country not regularly but it is enough to live here and it is transferted directly to my local account here that I opened years ago on a tourist visa.

That means if I go to any embassies or border crosspoints, I'll have to carry my Bank passbook with me.

So following the firsts says of thaiimmigration.com, I can be worry because I'm far to have 30 or 40 thousand bahts every months.

I think I'm not an isolated case.

Anyway, the times are changing and we have to deal with.

[thaimee]

Bruno you could air your questions along side mine at the Thaiimmigration dot com forum. We can all help each other at this forum if we Prod and Probe the Thai Immigration officers as luckily we have aliase's, right?

Thaimee.

[Pi Sua]

This is one of my posts 2 months ago.

In the French's official reply they talked also about Chinese but I fogot to mention it.

Posted on: Mon 2004-02-02, 05:10:38 Forum: Thai visas, residency and Work permits · Post Preview: #47307

Replies: 8

Views: 392

Following French official sources, there is or maybe be it was only a proposal:

there is incoherence between the foreign ministry affair and the immigration department.

The explanation which was given to us in February and April 1999 was:

Most of the restrictives measures concerning the aliens belongs the Fifty's when the authorities wanted to stop massive immigration from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Ceylan and then as they didn't want these measures appeared as discriminatory reasons, they extended them to all the foreigners.

These measures have been reinforced in 1999 but it seems that they do not concern every nationalities. Especially this frightening condition (I hope it was just a proposal):

It was say that you could apply for a new visa only if you leave the Kingdom for at least two months.

That finally is the same as to be in Thailand no more than 6 months a year.

From my knowledge, no one apply this except Singapore. Does this law really exist ? I can't answer but as we say no smoke without fire.....

In fact they before talked about two months out of LOS not 6 and this according to the source is official.

I've never heard except before these very few days about 3 entries = six months out of LOS but it definitly changes from one officer to another one especially in this TRT Era.

Sure altogether it was 6 months out or even less if you count well and for sure it was not not in the same way.

The thing is that soon, everything will not depend at all on any local immigration officer but straight from Bangkok TRT headquaters where the new brand computer is or will maybe be under high surveillance.

[natee1]

I am one of the guys not yet 50 with more money than sense (by Thai standards), been on back-to-back tourist visas for 6 years, but the last few times I was questioned, mainly about my financial situation, asked to see US$ 10.000 for a 2months tourist visa. Saigon, Vientiane, Manila... same story. Most important airline ticket out os Thailand, and bank book and/or letter from your Thai bank. Forgot my bankbook every time (won't in future). Twice my creditcard (from an overseas bank) was accepted as proof, once it was not, but my Thai atm card was (?!?).

Just want to report my experiences, don't have any answers either, anxious what the future will bring? My impression is they just want to make sure you have money (and plenty of that) to live on.

[tomisan]

So what's the story with thaiimmigration.com? Why should superintendent Pol.Col.Sorrapol Payoongveeranoi from Nong Khai immigration register a dot com domain with a Danish registrar (jth.net) and not use the official police.go.th site?

[OxfordWill]

So what's the story with thaiimmigration.com? Why should superintendent Pol.Col.Sorrapol Payoongveeranoi from Nong Khai immigration register a dot com domain with a Danish registrar (jth.net) and not use the official police.go.th site?

The domain is also 'illegally' registered, with regards to proper use of TLDs.

Also, CRSNIC has no information for that domain.

- Wil

[george]

The board at thaiimmigration having problems:

thaiimmigration.com website closed?

[udon]

George, it hasn't worked since last Thursday.

Rumour is that it was set up by a farang.

Strange, that it was set up on a Danish server.

See www.jth.net

WHOIS Search Results for: THAIIMMIGRATION.COM

domain: thaiimmigration.com

status: production

organization: NongKhai Immigration Thailand

owner: Sorrapol Payoongveeranoi

email: [email protected]

address: NongKhai Immigration Office

city: NongKhai

postal-code: 43000

country: TH

admin-c: [email protected]#0

tech-c: [email protected]#0

billing-c: [email protected]#0

reseller-1: Registreret gennem jth.net (http://jth.net)

reseller-2: Geografisk adskilte navneservere

reseller-3: Vi saelger ogsaa SMS og postbackup

nserver: nsta.jth.net 81.19.252.170

nserver: nsta1.jth.net 80.197.5.166

registrar: JORE-1

created: 2004-01-01 23:43:25 UTC JORE-1

expires: 2005-01-01 18:43:12 UTC

source: joker.comdb-updated: 2004-05-03 04:07:17 UTC

#########################

The strangest rego I've ever seen.

I know nothing!

[Wash]

The board at thaiimmigration having problems:

thaiimmigration.com website closed?

The web board seems to be the only part of the site that is having problems, since all other parts of the site seem to be working.