NHS cuts 'planned across England'

[webfact]

NHS cuts 'planned across England'

By Sarah Bloch-Budzier

BBC News

 

LONDON: -- Plans are being drawn up that could see cuts to NHS services across England.

 

The BBC has seen draft sustainability and transformation plans (STPs), which propose changes to hospital and GP services.

NHS England says reorganising local services is essential to improve patient care.

 

But a think tank warned that while STPs could lead to "fundamental changes", they had not been "visible" enough.

 

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-37186455

 

-- © Copyright BBC 2016-08-26

[SgtRock]

10 minutes ago, webfact said:

LONDON: -- Plans are being drawn up that could see cuts to NHS services across England.

 

The NHS has no need to cut any services. What it needs to do is start making efficient use of its budget and start charging for services that do not fall under the remit of Primary Care.

 

Just for starters.

 

Treatment of Foreigners - Minimum £500 Million a year

Abortions - Minimum £ 100 Million a year. With the exception of women who have filed a rape complaint with the Police

IVF treatment - Minimum £ 500 Million a year.

 

I dread to think how many other £ Billions are spent on non Primary Care.

 

Those 3 alone provide an annual saving of a minimum of £ 1100 Million. Even at a 50% take up rate, the annual saving and the increase in revenue would provide the funding to train the multitude of UK Citizens that are trying to get into the medical profession, that current policy makes it nearly impossible for them to do so.

 

The current NHS is nothing more than a Black Hole and it either needs to change radically or it is in danger of disappearing altogether and it will be Private Medical Insurance for all.

[PremiumLane]

2 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

The NHS has no need to cut any services. What it needs to do is start making efficient use of its budget and start charging for services that do not fall under the remit of Primary Care.

 

Just for starters.

 

Treatment of Foreigners - Minimum £500 Million a year

Abortions - Minimum £ 100 Million a year. With the exception of women who have filed a rape complaint with the Police

IVF treatment - Minimum £ 500 Million a year.

 

I dread to think how many other £ Billions are spent on non Primary Care.

 

Those 3 alone provide an annual saving of a minimum of £ 1100 Million. Even at a 50% take up rate, the annual saving and the increase in revenue would provide the funding to train the multitude of UK Citizens that are trying to get into the medical profession, that current policy makes it nearly impossible for them to do so.

 

The current NHS is nothing more than a Black Hole and it either needs to change radically or it is in danger of disappearing altogether and it will be Private Medical Insurance for all.

 

It is being run into the ground on purpose, so the private medical companies can swoop in and buy it up cheap and start charging. It is painfully obvious that this is happening.

 

And what is wrong with getting abortions? Treatment of foreigners... you do know it is well documented that foreigners put more into the system and economy than take out... so barking up the wrong tree there. 

[Andaman Al]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

The BBC has seen draft sustainability and transformation plans (STPs), which propose changes to hospital and GP services.

NHS England says reorganising local services is essential to improve patient care.

 

Which bit of that says

 

Quote

NHS cuts 'planned across England'.

 

[SgtRock]

2 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

 

It is being run into the ground on purpose, so the private medical companies can swoop in and buy it up cheap and start charging. It is painfully obvious that this is happening.

 

And what is wrong with getting abortions? Treatment of foreigners... you do know it is well documented that foreigners put more into the system and economy than take out... so barking up the wrong tree there. 

 

We could argue the point all day about whether it is deliberately being run into the ground so that Private Companies can buy it up. Neither of us have concrete proof so it is no more than speculation.

 

Nothing wrong with getting abortions. I never said there was. I said it was not Primary Care and it should be a fee paying service.

 

The £ 500 million + that I highlighted is medical tourism, people who come to the UK for treatment, not people who are resident in the UK.

 

Come down from your tree 

[petermik]

2 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

 

 

And what is wrong with getting abortions? Treatment of foreigners... you do know it is well documented that foreigners put more into the system and economy than take out... so barking up the wrong tree there. 

 

The "foreigners" in my town in northern england must be different to the ones you are talking about......very few of them speak any english never mind contribute to the economy,  

They are experts at milking the system however

[PremiumLane]

1 minute ago, SgtRock said:

 

We could argue the point all day about whether it is deliberately being run into the ground so that Private Companies can buy it up. Neither of us have concrete proof so it is no more than speculation.

 

Nothing wrong with getting abortions. I never said there was. I said it was not Primary Care and it should be a fee paying service.

 

The £ 500 million + that I highlighted is medical tourism, people who come to the UK for treatment, not people who are resident in the UK.

 

Come down from your tree 

 

And as I said, it is very well documented that foreigners put in more than they take out - I am talking ALL . Medical tourism means people coming to the UK to pay for treatment, so you might mean something different? If you are thinking of some Daily Mail scare mongering story of hordes of immigrants coming over to get free treatment, then sorry to say, it is mostly rubbish. 

 

Abortions should be free, all medical services should be - and there is plenty of evidence that private companies want to buy it up, - you would have be stupid not to realize what is going on. Plenty of studies that show it is being deliberately run into the ground. 

 

And why be so childish? Come down from your tree? 

[PremiumLane]

5 minutes ago, petermik said:

 

The "foreigners" in my town in northern england must be different to the ones you are talking about......very few of them speak any english never mind contribute to the economy,  

They are experts at milking the system however

 

Yet funnily enough every report says they contribute more to the economy.  You do know England was built on immigration, right?

And that old right-wing trope of milking the system - which is proven to be rubbish

[petermik]

Just now, PremiumLane said:

 

Yet funnily enough every report says they contribute more to the economy.  You do know England was built on immigration, right?

And that old right-wing trope of milking the system - which is proven to be rubbish

 

You must live in the affluent part of England,I can speak without any bias as to what has happened in my area of Greater Manchester

[Andaman Al]

8 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

Abortions should be free, all medical services should be - and there is plenty of evidence that private companies want to buy it up, - you would have be stupid not to realize what is going on. Plenty of studies that show it is being deliberately run into the ground. 

 

I tried looking for studies saying the NHS is deliberately being run into the ground and could not find any. Can you point me in the right direction please. I am keen to read these.

[SgtRock]

2 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

 

And as I said, it is very well documented that foreigners put in more than they take out - I am talking ALL . Medical tourism means people coming to the UK to pay for treatment, so you might mean something different? If you are thinking of some Daily Mail scare mongering story of hordes of immigrants coming over to get free treatment, then sorry to say, it is mostly rubbish. 

 

Abortions should be free, all medical services should be - and there is plenty of evidence that private companies want to buy it up, - you would have be stupid not to realize what is going on. Plenty of studies that show it is being deliberately run into the ground. 

 

And why be so childish? Come down from your tree? 

 

You seem to have difficulty in understanding.

 

Medical tourism by foreigners to the UK costs over £ 500 million a year. This is well documented and has nothing to do with foreigners who are legally in the UK regardless of whether they are contributing to the UK or whether they are living a life on benefits. 2 separate entities and it is has nothing to do with the Daily Fail either, which I do not read.

 

The NHS was set up to provide free Primary Care. One of the major reasons it is now in a complete mess is due to moving away from this and everything is free. Treatments that are not Primary Care should be paid for. I only used abortions as an example because I know how much they cost the NHS a year.

 

You seem to be rather confused. You are shouting about how the NHS is apparently being deliberately run down so the Private Companies can buy it up and start charging people for medical care. At the same time you are completely oblivious to the fact that currently the NHS is a money sucking unsustainable black hole but are against anything to reduce costs, which ultimately will lead to Private health care.

 

28 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

so barking up the wrong tree there. 

 

When you start being childish, do not be surprised or offended when it comes straight back at you.

 

 

[thai3]

They need to charge for missed appointments, 850 last month at my practice and for hospital food.

[SgtRock]

14 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

 

I tried looking for studies saying the NHS is deliberately being run into the ground and could not find any. Can you point me in the right direction please. I am keen to read these.

 

The alter ego's are so obvious.

 

They are like an attack poodle with their first engagement with a poster. With posts full of unsubstantiated, and wrong information. 

[RuamRudy]

NHS spends 640 million on management consultants

"The causes of the increased expenditure on management consultants is tied to the wide scale introduction of market forces into the essential structure of the NHS, "

 

"Dr Clive Peedell, a consultant oncologist and co-leader of the National Health Action Party, a political party set up to oppose the health reforms, says the money “should be spent on patients”. Adding, “This government’s disastrous and wasteful NHS reorganisation has enabled management consultants to cash in on our NHS and syphon off millions that should be spent on patients while hiding behind a cloak of unaccountability.” "

[SgtRock]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

NHS spends 640 million on management consultants

"The causes of the increased expenditure on management consultants is tied to the wide scale introduction of market forces into the essential structure of the NHS, "

 

"Dr Clive Peedell, a consultant oncologist and co-leader of the National Health Action Party, a political party set up to oppose the health reforms, says the money “should be spent on patients”. Adding, “This government’s disastrous and wasteful NHS reorganisation has enabled management consultants to cash in on our NHS and syphon off millions that should be spent on patients while hiding behind a cloak of unaccountability.” "

 

3 hours ago, SgtRock said:

Just for starters.

 

Treatment of Foreigners - Minimum £500 Million a year

Abortions - Minimum £ 100 Million a year. With the exception of women who have filed a rape complaint with the Police

IVF treatment - Minimum £ 500 Million a year.

 

I dread to think how many other £ Billions are spent on non Primary Care.

 

[Basil B]

3 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

The NHS has no need to cut any services. What it needs to do is start making efficient use of its budget and start charging for services that do not fall under the remit of Primary Care.

 

Just for starters.

 

Treatment of Foreigners - Minimum £500 Million a year

Abortions - Minimum £ 100 Million a year. With the exception of women who have filed a rape complaint with the Police

IVF treatment - Minimum £ 500 Million a year.

 

I dread to think how many other £ Billions are spent on non Primary Care.

 

Those 3 alone provide an annual saving of a minimum of £ 1100 Million. Even at a 50% take up rate, the annual saving and the increase in revenue would provide the funding to train the multitude of UK Citizens that are trying to get into the medical profession, that current policy makes it nearly impossible for them to do so.

 

The current NHS is nothing more than a Black Hole and it either needs to change radically or it is in danger of disappearing altogether and it will be Private Medical Insurance for all.

 

One way to generate more income would be to get payment from those not entitled to free treatment.

 

I recall talking to a guy from Belgium working in the UK who told me about another work colleague of his who needed treatment and was not entitled for free treatment, when he asked about paying he was told it was too much trouble to bill him.

[RuamRudy]

Edit: Not sure why the text block did not appear, but this is a response to your post #15, Sgt.

 

Without wishing to get into the moral debate of who deserves treatment and what treatment should be offered, I would be happy to see the first step taken not to impact patients, but rather those suits who add little value.

 

You suggested earlier in this thread that there was no proof that the NHS was being lined up for privatisation. I think that is a somewhat blinkered view - the Nasty Party is clear in its intent.

Edited August 26, 2016 by RuamRudy

[SgtRock]

3 minutes ago, Basil B said:

 

One way to generate more income would be to get payment from those not entitled to free treatment.

 

I recall talking to a guy from Belgium working in the UK who told me about another work colleague of his who needed treatment and was not entitled for free treatment, when he asked about paying he was told it was too much trouble to bill him.

 

Exactly

 

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Basil B said:

 

One way to generate more income would be to get payment from those not entitled to free treatment.

 

I recall talking to a guy from Belgium working in the UK who told me about another work colleague of his who needed treatment and was not entitled for free treatment, when he asked about paying he was told it was too much trouble to bill him.

 

My sister is a casualty nurse, albeit in a Scottish hospital. She tells me that rarely do they collect payment details from foreigners because the paperwork is hugely cumbersome and time consuming. It seems that the system needs to be improved to make it easier to backcharge those who are not entitled to free treatment.

[SgtRock]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Without wishing to get into the moral debate of who deserves treatment and what treatment should be offered, I would be happy to see the first step taken not to impact patients, but rather those suits who add little value.

 

You suggested earlier in this thread that there was no proof that the NHS was being lined up for privatisation. I think that is a somewhat blinkered view - the Nasty Party is clear in its intent.

 

Did I really ? Another epic fail. This is what I said:

 

1 hour ago, SgtRock said:

We could argue the point all day about whether it is deliberately being run into the ground so that Private Companies can buy it up. Neither of us have concrete proof so it is no more than speculation.

 

 

Yet again your reading comprehension skills let you down drastically.

 

It is time you and your alter ego slid back under your bridge and quit the trolling.

 

You are now getting beyond a joke.

[alexnye]

We're swamped with foreign parasites.. THe list is literally endless and they're still flooding in.

 

Polish Magda Single mummies, NIgerian HIV sufferers.. the list is endless

[Basil B]

2 minutes ago, alexnye said:

We're swamped with foreign parasites.. THe list is literally endless and they're still flooding in.

 

Polish Magda Single mummies, NIgerian HIV sufferers.. the list is endless

 

And the Irish (North and South) coming for abortions...

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, PremiumLane said:

 

It is being run into the ground on purpose, so the private medical companies can swoop in and buy it up cheap and start charging. It is painfully obvious that this is happening.

 

And what is wrong with getting abortions? Treatment of foreigners... you do know it is well documented that foreigners put more into the system and economy than take out... so barking up the wrong tree there.

Not so. When I worked at a well known hospital in an area with a certain majority ethnicity, we operated on many elderly patients that had obviously been flown in to get referred by a tame GP for free NHS treatment. We were not allowed to ask if they actually qualified for NHS treatement.

 

S R is correct that many treatments are not within the remit of the NHS. IVF certainly should not be. I think abortions should be though as an unwanted baby costs taxpayer far more than just getting rid of it.

 

The problem with the NHS is that the consultants have become gobsmackingly rich feeding off it and the bureaucrats have far too much say in what goes on.

[thaibeachlovers]

25 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Edit: Not sure why the text block did not appear, but this is a response to your post #15, Sgt.

 

Without wishing to get into the moral debate of who deserves treatment and what treatment should be offered, I would be happy to see the first step taken not to impact patients, but rather those suits who add little value.

 

You suggested earlier in this thread that there was no proof that the NHS was being lined up for privatisation. I think that is a somewhat blinkered view - the Nasty Party is clear in its intent.

LOL. The NHS was ruined by Gordon, a LABOUR politician with his illadvised and stupidly spent 6 billion quid that was wasted almost entirely. That money could have ben use to build a brilliant NHS. Sad.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, PremiumLane said:

 

And as I said, it is very well documented that foreigners put in more than they take out - I am talking ALL . Medical tourism means people coming to the UK to pay for treatment, so you might mean something different? If you are thinking of some Daily Mail scare mongering story of hordes of immigrants coming over to get free treatment, then sorry to say, it is mostly rubbish.

 

Abortions should be free, all medical services should be - and there is plenty of evidence that private companies want to buy it up, - you would have be stupid not to realize what is going on. Plenty of studies that show it is being deliberately run into the ground.

 

And why be so childish? Come down from your tree?

Medical tourists don't use the NHS.

[RuamRudy]

22 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

Did I really ? Another epic fail. This is what I said:

 

 

Yet again your reading comprehension skills let you down drastically.

 

It is time you and your alter ego slid back under your bridge and quit the trolling.

 

You are now getting beyond a joke.

 

Please, enough with the schoolboy bully tactics. They are tedious.  You stated this:

 

23 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

Neither of us have concrete proof

 

I stated this:

34 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

You suggested earlier in this thread that there was no proof

 

Please tell me where my comprehension skills failed me, leading to my 'epic fail'.

 

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. The NHS was ruined by Gordon, a LABOUR politician with his illadvised and stupidly spent 6 billion quid that was wasted almost entirely. That money could have ben use to build a brilliant NHS. Sad.

 

I have never voted Labour in my life, and I certainly didn't assume that the Blairite sort were to be trusted with protecting the NHS, but the Tories have never hidden their love of the free market. They are just more honest in their intent to wreck anything that doesn't conform to their wet dream of a market economy for every aspect of life.

[SgtRock]

13 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Please tell me where my comprehension skills failed me, leading to my 'epic fail'.

 

 

Your Post 17. Paragraph in its entirety

 

Quote

You suggested earlier in this thread that there was no proof that the NHS was being lined up for privatisation. I think that is a somewhat blinkered view - the Nasty Party is clear in its intent.

 

My Post 5. Paragraph in its entirety

 

Quote

We could argue the point all day about whether it is deliberately being run into the ground so that Private Companies can buy it up. Neither of us have concrete proof so it is no more than speculation.

 

I suggested that there was no proof ?

 

No I said.

 

Neither of us have concrete proof

 

How sad that you cannot distinguish between ''I suggested that there was no Proof '' and '' Neither of us have concrete proof ''

 

Of course you can. You are trolling and baiting and the next time it happens I will take a leaf out your book and report it.

[JetsetBkk]

5 hours ago, SgtRock said:

Those 3 alone provide an annual saving of a minimum of £ 1100 Million.

 

You forgot breast implants/reductions, and other plastic surgery... all because the patient person has "low self-esteem".

 

 

[Alwyn]

Nye Bevan must be turning in his grave!!