My ultra reliable maid of 6 years, now stealing cash.

[GOLDBUGGY]

8 hours ago, JJGreen said:

Seems pointless to hire a cleaner in your world...

The expense of triple key security systems for vacuum cleaners , time release.locks on mops and brooms, household ckeaning agents weighed and measured before and after usage.

All valuables safely secured and itemized in the security camera and laser beam protected safe room...complete with Faraday cage.

Oh....lets not forget the special safes for designer clothes ... because that's valuable....and individual lock boxes for shoes and brand name runners.
Pin code protected toilet paper covers and weighted alarms on the stack of spare soap bars...
All the time with your overarching security of you being there watching the cleaner like a hawk!
On exiting the cleaner is given a complete body pat down and passes through a full body scanner.

Only with all this security....and keeping an eagle eye on her...can she then be held responsible for any theft... but only if the theft amount is greater than the average daily Western wage

Nope! Nowhere have I ever mentioned it was pointless in hiring a cleaning lady. All I said was when you do you have to be careful with your valuables. 

 

Let me tell you something. Many companies spend a great deal of money on Theft Prevention which includes their employees. Just take a look around you the next time you go shopping. Where items are now Bar Coded, so the person at the Cash Register doesn't make a mistakes, and punch in a lower numbers,. Or give a gift to her brother as these items are checked against you Bill of Sale when you leave. Just count the security in one of these places or the alarm systems.

 

You make a joke about theft on things like soap and toilet paper. But let me tell you something you don't know. Exxon Mobile was the largest corporation in the world until Apple outdid them on their Mobile Phones. Now I am not sure where they stand and if they are now first or Apple is. But anyway, if the highest manager in that company (the CEO) was caught stealing a role of toilet paper, or a bar of soap, from the Men's Washroom, he would be fired on the spot. 

 

This is because Exxon Mobile has "Zero Tolerance" towards this. They treat company theft by employees very seriously. But then not everyone has signing authority to buy things on company money or access to things of value. When you do, you need 4 other signatures at least. So they take temptation away also. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

8 hours ago, sioux2012 said:

first of all, you need to read what you post and secondly learn basic maths before you comment.

1000week/2hrs=500hr

1000weekly *4weeks =4000

Now that wasn't to hard was it?

A Platinum member eh?

 

Well, I wrote this before the Op came back and clarified this for us all and told us he was in fact paying her 1,000 Baht a week. Until then it was unclear and could have been 1,000 Baht a month. But I am sure you read all the posts and could easily have seen that. Or did you?

 

But anyway it is always easier to multiply or divided when you know what both the number are to begin with and don't have to guess. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

Who says a Maid or Butler has to steal from their employer if they play their cards right? 

 

Just look at Bernard Lafferty. He was the Uneducated Butler with a drinking problem, who worked for Doris Duke as her Butler for only 6 years and until her death. Doris Duke was the daughter to a Tobacco Tycoon who invented Pre Rolled Cigarettes. When he died, he left his daughter the bulk of his fortune which today would be over 1.3 Billion Dollars. Doris was only 13 years old when that happen and she was considered the "Worlds Richest Girl" then.

 

But when Doris died at age 80, she left her Butler (Lafferty) 5 Million Dollars, plus $500,000 a year for life. Not bad of a bonus for only 6 years of service, and a lot better than the Ops Maid, who got 5 Bucks and the Boot. I guess nobody but Lafferty knows for sure if he stole form his employer. He was known for charging up about 1 Million Dollars on himself after her death. Also for taking expensive wine and whiskey from her Wine Cellar without permission. But I guess she must have forgave him for that, as she was told and didn't fire him for that. 

 

Lafferty did find the Goose who laid the Golden Egg. But he didn't get to enjoy this very long. He died only 3 years after Doris did. He was only 51 years old. It appears that he over indulged in good food, lacked exercise, and drank himself to death. With no relatives, all of his wealth was given to charity.   

[GOLDBUGGY]

3 hours ago, transam said:

The maid has been his aid for SIX YEARS, probably felt like family.....She was NOT a stranger to the OP...

Yeah Yeah, I know! I heard it all here before! 

 

Inner Circle! Friend! Part of the Family! Then Fire this person on the spot who worked for you for SIX YEARS for you, with no chance to . explain and no severance pay whatsoever.

 

All I can say is that sure is some kind of Inner Circle of Friends or Family you keep when you would fire them on the spot and disown them, for 5 Bucks. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

Severance pay......................This is LOS..............

The bird was on a winner at 1000bht for TWO hours work and feeeeeeeerked up caught stealing....Are you for real................?  

Sorry but it was you who just said: " The maid has been his aid for SIX YEARS, probably felt like family.....She was NOT a stranger to the OP "

 

All that I tried to point out was this is not how I treat my friends or part of my family. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

Just now, transam said:

So if your chum nicked your stuff you would just smile........?

No! I would ask him why, as I would be more concerned about his well being and that he needed to steal the 5 Bucks from me, then I would missing the 5 Bucks. I certainly wouldn't set a trap for one of my friends. What would you do?

 

 

[rogeroc]

It is important that you convict the right people. This particular trap was an unreasonable set up, the case would have been thrown out of Court. But as Goldbuggy says good to know you would set up your family and friends with a tempting bait!. By the way are you  one of the totally honest 5% of the population. Tell me you have never paid a builder in cash, to get the job done cheaper because he can avoid the taxes he should be paying, and i will believe you.

[rogeroc]

I agree you did not specifically say you would set someone up but you have frequently condoned the OP's action in temptingly setting up someone who you believe should be treated like family and friend. If someone pays a builder in cash (most of us probably have) they are effectievly stealing from their (tax paying) neighbours who are paying more in taxes as a result of the dishonesty of the builder as encouraged by his customer.

[rogeroc]

Politicians do it because of the temptation and because they think the can get away with it and because they kid themselves it is OK. So the OP's maid was tempted, she thought she would get away with it and she convinced herself it could have been a tip.  Politicuans are attempting to correct this (probably reluctanty) by introducing rules and actions to reduce / minimize the temptation. That is what i and others are advocating in this thread. I think that answers your question.

[dick dasterdly]

Paying for a cleaner wouldn't be worth the effort if I had to worry about hiding jewelry/money away whilst she was there.

[rogeroc]

Do you leave it on display in the house / condo when you are out for the evening as well? 

[dick dasterdly]

11 minutes ago, rogeroc said:

Do you leave it on display in the house / condo when you are out for the evening as well? 

What on earth has this to do with hiding all valuables when the cleaner is there?

[rogeroc]

I just wonder if the risk of theft by a cleaner (if jewellery / cash is left out) is greater than the risk of a burgalry where the jewellery is stolen.

 

If i were a maid or butler i certainly would not steal from you but i would much rather you hid your valuables away, that would make me feel more comfortable. As an example if you left cash on a table you may chose to challenge me if you believed (incorrectly) some of it was missing.

Edited August 29, 2016 by rogeroc

[GOLDBUGGY]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Some Politicians in the UK who have had their hands in the till are serving time.....The last UK PM had stashed some cash and was questioned about it, so don't go down the tax dodging route in farangland..............

A BIRD GOT CAUGHT WITH HER MITTS IN HER EMPLOYERS TILL........Is that clear...?

A Till is something you lock and need a key to open. The money she took was sitting on a table in full view and on table she would clean. The money was left their on purpose. I have left money in the open and on purpose in a hotel room to. I have put money on the bed. It was called a Tip. 

 

So she did not get caught with her hands in a Locked Till.

 

Is that clear? 

[GOLDBUGGY]

1 minute ago, transam said:

So YOU are still in a hotel room, not this guys home with a 'trusted' staff member of six years......

No! I am not in a hotel. But when I first came to Thailand I was working 28 /28 and I stayed in Hotels for about 2 years on a monthly basis. every other month. The Maids in this hotel cleaned everyday and since I stayed mostly in the same hotel, I got to know them quite well. But I still locked my valuable away when I planned not to be in my room while they were cleaning. 

 

But I have also worked overseas for many years. Mostly in Work Camps or Furnish Apartments where Daily Maid Service was provided. Security in these places was very strict. All workers coming in and out of the camp where checked and included any purses or bags they were holding. So walking off with your Lap Top was next to impossible. 

 

But in all these places the rules were the same. "Keep Your Valuable Locked Up", in a locking cabinet everyone was provided with. I am not sure if there were any incidents in which something small was taken. I suppose there was. But what I am sure of is that in the 25 years I have been working in places like this, I never heard of anyone leaving money out on purpose to see if his Maid was honest or not. 

[xvend]

16 hours ago, rogeroc said:

It is important that you convict the right people. This particular trap was an unreasonable set up, the case would have been thrown out of Court. 

 

[xvend]

10 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

But what I am sure of is that in the 25 years I have been working in places like this, I never heard of anyone leaving money out on purpose to see if his Maid was honest or not. 

 

I knew she BECAME unhonest. She was not always like this.

 

And you sound like someone who would take the money in the private residence of a person which never belonged to you to begin with, and claim it was a set-up. 

 

You'd be right

Edited August 29, 2016 by xvend

[dick dasterdly]

19 hours ago, rogeroc said:

I just wonder if the risk of theft by a cleaner (if jewellery / cash is left out) is greater than the risk of a burgalry where the jewellery is stolen.

 

If i were a maid or butler i certainly would not steal from you but i would much rather you hid your valuables away, that would make me feel more comfortable. As an example if you left cash on a table you may chose to challenge me if you believed (incorrectly) some of it was missing.

You may have a point about a new cleaner possibly feeling uncomfortable when cash and jewellery are left around.

 

But if they're honest - they'll soon get over the initial 'uncomfortable' feeling as they realise that we aren't treating them as untrustworthy by hiding things away!

 

This sounds harsh (and I don't mean it that way), but cleaners are there to make our life easier - and having to worry about valuables when they're around rather defeats the purpose.

 

But then again, I've been lucky with my cleaners.  I know others that haven't been so lucky.

[GOLDBUGGY]

5 hours ago, xvend said:

 

I knew she BECAME unhonest. She was not always like this.

 

And you sound like someone who would take the money in the private residence of a person which never belonged to you to begin with, and claim it was a set-up. 

 

You'd be right

To be totally honest, I am not sure what I would do if I had a sick child at home, and needed medicine, and I didn't have the money to buy that. Neither do you! If you think 4,000 Baht a month is so great, then try living on that for a month or two. Or go back home and see if you can find someone to come in and clean your place 4 days a month, plus do your laundry and even look after your dog while you are away, for $118 a month. 

 

I am not against your decision to fire her for theft. That is your decision to make and you made it. I am against how you handle it with her, including setting a trap. You never even tried to find out why she stole this money. The truth is you could care less about her with her 6 years of service or not.

 

Which is okay to. But then you sit back when the others come here and try to quote you as a trusted friend, part of the inner circle, part of the family. You should tell them the truth! As nobody does that to a friend, or set up a trap if they were trusted. Also saying she only worked 2 hours a week, but did all of the house cleaning and your laundry, is another misquote by you. No way in 2 hours My Friend.

 

People also scoff at giving her some severance pay. I agree she should not be rewarded for falling into your trap and test a poor person by leaving money laying around. But why not some recognition for the previous 5.99 years of service you claim she gave you ultra reliable and good service? Does one or two mistakes erase that all?  You already screwed your "Trusted Friend" enough by Black Balling her and her not being able to get a Reference from you. So she made a mistake and took 5 Bucks from you that you purposely left lying around. Big Deal! 

 

Since you are guessing what type of person I am I will tell you. I am not a Thief! I am just a Man with a Good Heart. Now my guess of you is that you are a Cheap Charlie with a Cold Heart. But don't worry! There are plenty of other Farangs around here like that who can give us all a bad name to.   

[dick dasterdly]

9 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

To be totally honest, I am not sure what I would do if I had a sick child at home, and needed medicine, and I didn't have the money to buy that. Neither do you! If you think 4,000 Baht a month is so great, then try living on that for a month or two. Or go back home and see if you can find someone to come in and clean your place 4 days a month, plus do your laundry and even look after your dog while you are away, for $118 a month. 

 

I am not against your decision to fire her for theft. That is your decision to make and you made it. I am against how you handle it with her, including setting a trap. You never even tried to find out why she stole this money. The truth is you could care less about her with her 6 years of service or not.

 

Which is okay to. But then you sit back when the others come here and try to quote you as a trusted friend, part of the inner circle, part of the family. You should tell them the truth! As nobody does that to a friend, or set up a trap if they were trusted. Also saying she only worked 2 hours a week, but did all of the house cleaning and your laundry, is another misquote by you. No way in 2 hours My Friend.

 

People also scoff at giving her some severance pay. I agree she should not be rewarded for falling into your trap and test a poor person by leaving money laying around. But why not some recognition for the previous 5.99 years of service you claim she gave you ultra reliable and good service? Does one or two mistakes erase that all?  You already screwed your "Trusted Friend" enough by Black Balling her and her not being able to get a Reference from you. So she made a mistake and took 5 Bucks from you that you purposely left lying around. Big Deal! 

 

Since you are guessing what type of person I am I will tell you. I am not a Thief! I am just a Man with a Good Heart. Now my guess of you is that you are a Cheap Charlie with a Cold Heart. But don't worry! There are plenty of other Farangs around here like that who can give us all a bad name to.   

1) It seems reasonable to assume that his cleaner has other jobs - she's not reliant on 4,000 bht p.m. for 8 hours of work.  And if she is, she needs to find another job.

 

2) We're talking about Thailand wages - not US wages.

 

3) It will obviously come as a shock to you to learn that a few of us have a 'good heart' and pay far more than the normal rate/give presents and cash bonuses for Xmas and Chinese New Year etc. etc.

 

4) The OP wasn't sure about the initial loss of money, so 'set a trap' if you like to be sure that she was stealing money.  On the first occasion the cleaner repaid the money, but its possible that she did this as she had an incredibly well-paying job - and didn't want to lose it.  But the second time proved that she was stealing.

Edited August 30, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[GOLDBUGGY]

21 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Paying for a cleaner wouldn't be worth the effort if I had to worry about hiding jewelry/money away whilst she was there.

Why? It only takes a few seconds to lock up your Passport, Credit Cards, and extra Cash in your Desk Drawer? I do this all the time and when I am going out, and even when I  am not expecting anyone to come over. But isn't that easier then reporting a lost Passport, Credit Cards, Driver License, and Cash, then going through all the hassle later of getting new ones?

 

How do you Test a Cleaner's Honesty anyway? Leave 5 Bucks on a table and if it is there when you get back you can trust them? Hell! If I was a Thief I would wait for you to get really careless for trusting me, and then steal your whole wallet full of Cash, your Diamond Ring, and your Gold Necklace, instead of just Chump Change.  

[rogeroc]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

You may have a point about a new cleaner possibly feeling uncomfortable when cash and jewellery are left around.

 

But if they're honest - they'll soon get over the initial 'uncomfortable' feeling as they realise that we aren't treating them as untrustworthy by hiding things away!

 

This sounds harsh (and I don't mean it that way), but cleaners are there to make our life easier - and having to worry about valuables when they're around rather defeats the purpose.

 

But then again, I've been lucky with my cleaners.  I know others that haven't been so lucky.

 

Re your last sentence it may not have been about luck but about the way you treat the people you employ. Give yourself some credit !

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, GOLDBUGGY said:

Why? It only takes a few seconds to lock up your Passport, Credit Cards, and extra Cash in your Desk Drawer? I do this all the time and when I am going out, and even when I  am not expecting anyone to come over. But isn't that easier then reporting a lost Passport, Credit Cards, Driver License, and Cash, then going through all the hassle later of getting new ones?

 

How do you Test a Cleaner's Honesty anyway? Leave 5 Bucks on a table and if it is there when you get back you can trust them? Hell! If I was a Thief I would wait for you to get really careless for trusting me, and then steal your whole wallet full of Cash, your Diamond Ring, and your Gold Necklace, instead of just Chump Change.  

Its not a case of just passport/credit cards and cash.

 

Personally, I keep passport and cards in my purse - but quite often leave cash around when I've emptied my pockets following a shopping trip etc.  Plus, as a female, the jewellery I use most often is on my dressing table - and it hadn't crossed my mind that my cleaner would steal it!  And neither of them have done so.

 

I wouldn't think of distrusting anyones' honesty - until I had a reason to do so - as per the OP's post.

[GOLDBUGGY]

3 hours ago, transam said:

This thread seems to be going round in circles between feeling sorry for a thief and give the thief the sack camp, so l asked Mrs.Trans (Thai) what she would do...

"If I thought she was taking my money when l was paying her top money l would leave a little money out and see what happened. If it went l would look the lady in the eye and say 'give me all my money back', the lady would know she was found out and would go and probably borrow money to pay back. When I get my money back I would tell her to go find another job, lots people want easy work for 1000bht"

So there you have it....

Yeah! I think you are right about that. We seem to be repeating ourselves. 

 

I to asked my Wife what she thought about all this. She is the one who never wanted to leave the hotel until the Maid Service was done, and always made sure I locked everything up when we went out. She said: "You are Man with Good Heart!".

 

I guess I can learn to live with her answer to.   

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, rogeroc said:

 

Re your last sentence it may not have been about luck but about the way you treat the people you employ. Give yourself some credit !

I hope you're right and have always done my best to be fair and considerate.

 

One time my cleaner dropped her pay outside my garden, and I was lucky enough to quickly spot this - and so 'phoned her to tell her.

 

When the sky goes black, I tell her to leave as quickly as possible to avoid the storm.

 

When she takes the odd 'day' off - I pay her as she's entitled to sick or holiday pay.

 

Even though she's not a great cleaner (to put it mildly ), I appreciate that she will always go out of her way to help me in ways outside her 'job description' - and spends time making a fuss of my dogs!

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Yeah! I think you are right about that. We seem to be repeating ourselves. 

 

I to asked my Wife what she thought about all this. She is the one who never wanted to leave the hotel until the Maid Service was done, and always made sure I locked everything up when we went out. She said: "You are Man with Good Heart!".

 

I guess I can learn to live with her answer to.   

Cleaners in hotels are an entirely different argument as we're only there for a short time - and so don't leave valuables lying around.

 

One time I told the hotel cleaner she could take clothes/toiletries that I didn't want to take back home - and the cleaner was stopped - necessitating me telling the management that I'd given them to her!

[rogeroc]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

I wouldn't think of distrusting anyones' honesty - until I had a reason to do so - as per the OP's post.

 

 

The OP has not been specific about the initial reason for distrusting the maid but there is an indication that it was because she was asking for pay in advance and therefore appeared to be in some financial difficulty. Just from the tone of your Posts i suspect you would have handled that situation very differently from the OP.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, rogeroc said:

 

 

The OP has not been specific about the initial reason for distrusting the maid but there is an indication that it was because she was asking for pay in advance and therefore appeared to be in some financial difficulty. Just from the tone of your Posts i suspect you would have handled that situation very differently from the OP.

The OP explained why he started distrusting his cleaner.  Read the OP again - it has nothing to do with asking for pay in advance.

[rogeroc]

On 8/26/2016 at 0:46 PM, xvend said:

My maid kept continually asking me to pre-pay her weekly salary but gave no reason why, I knew she was in the shit, but I have no idea her other sources of income and don't appreciate being treated like an atm, especially without being able to gauge the likelihood that it would be a one time thing.

 

 

Post 8 but  the true circumstances are not entirely clear. 

Edited August 30, 2016 by rogeroc

[GOLDBUGGY]

21 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

1) It seems reasonable to assume that his cleaner has other jobs - she's not reliant on 4,000 bht p.m. for 8 hours of work.  And if she is, she needs to find another job.

 

2) We're talking about Thailand wages - not US wages.

 

3) It will obviously come as a shock to you to learn that a few of us have a 'good heart' and pay far more than the normal rate/give presents and cash bonuses for Xmas and Chinese New Year etc. etc.

 

4) The OP wasn't sure about the initial loss of money, so 'set a trap' if you like to be sure that she was stealing money.  On the first occasion the cleaner repaid the money, but its possible that she did this as she had an incredibly well-paying job - and didn't want to lose it.  But the second time proved that she was stealing.

1) You assume that she can do all the laundry, wash dishes, clean the bathroom, change linen, wash floors, clean tables, and all the rest in just 2 hours. My Washing Machine would not even finish the first cycle by then. Can you do your place totally in 2 hours? She is not Super Woman. She is a 52 Year Old Uneducated Thai Cleaning Lady who does peoples houses to try a scrape together a living as she needs the money.  

 

2) Agree we are talking about Thai Wages here. The problem lies with Farangs who pay Thai Wages and yet expect the same US Service and Honesty. 

 

3) No! It does not shock me that some here have a Good Heart. What shocks me is people who claim they have a Good Heart, and their Maid is a Trusted Friend and part of their Family, yet fire her and throw her out on the street over 5 Bucks. 

 

4) The Op was damned sure about the initial loss as that was his first trap. He knew exactly how much money it was and where he put that, and called her as soon as he saw that missing. He just couldn't prove it the first time as he would have to go through all the garbage, which he was not prepared to do. I just question that if she really was a trusted friend why he did this in the first place and didn't try to help her instead? Which the logical answer would be she wasn't any kind of a friend at all to him and for sure not family.