Building a wall around property cost

[Hutch68]

9 minutes ago, Gary A said:

 

I think the 250,000 baht estimate for 100 meters is far closer than your 47,000 baht MONTHLY labor estimate. How do you come up with a monthly labor estimate? I don't remember the cost of our materials but the material was far more expensive than the labor. A year or so ago, I saw about a forty meter wall built with cheap labor fall over. You get what you pay for. My friends here were making bets about how long the wall would stand up. The first hard rain, the whole wall fell over.  My "expensive" built wall is still standing. It has a few cracks but not many. The 40 meter retaining portion has no cracks. If you knew my Thai wife, you would know for sure that she doesn't pay more than a reasonable rate. One post that quoted 35,000 baht would NOT pay for the material.

simple 4 people to build our wall cost 100.000 around 60.000 for materials and 40.000 to pay the workers as it took them a little under a month if you paid 250.000 you should have paid the 60.000 the same for materials and 190.000 for the workers say if you had 4 and it took a little under a month. If you like I can break everything down further about the price of posts, blocks, cement, sand etc. 250.000 baht for 100m you have been swizzled.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Hutch68

[whaleboneman]

6 hours ago, Naam said:

i was waiting for that, took quite long

 

So you mean that you didn't make an error but were just testing us?

[4MyEgo]

Whatever you do, make sure you put in those weep holes if you are using bessa block bricks and rendering the wall or it will go over as ours did on both sides, irregardless of how deep those foundations are.

[sezze]

6 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Whatever you do, make sure you put in those weep holes if you are using bessa block bricks and rendering the wall or it will go over as ours did on both sides, irregardless of how deep those foundations are.

 

You mean : your wall has fallen down ?

If that is the case , it has nothing to do with rendering . Rendering makes the wall stronger sure , but it does not prevent a wall falling over . That has to do with foundation and possibly weep holes . Like stated before , if land is raised then you need a bit different approach , and the more it is raised to more difficult and expensive it gets . The raised land will push hard on the wall and if nothing is done to release the pressure , your wall is going to fall over . when it is only a little bit and not to long distance , you can go with weep holes alone . This drains the land of water , making the total load on the wall less. If raised more then 50cm (in general ) , this is not enough anymore , so extra strenghtening is required on the wall itself and the foundation . The story there is that it will get more complicated and more expensive fast the higher the land is .

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, sezze said:

 

You mean : your wall has fallen down ?

If that is the case , it has nothing to do with rendering . Rendering makes the wall stronger sure , but it does not prevent a wall falling over . That has to do with foundation and possibly weep holes . Like stated before , if land is raised then you need a bit different approach , and the more it is raised to more difficult and expensive it gets . The raised land will push hard on the wall and if nothing is done to release the pressure , your wall is going to fall over . when it is only a little bit and not to long distance , you can go with weep holes alone . This drains the land of water , making the total load on the wall less. If raised more then 50cm (in general ) , this is not enough anymore , so extra strenghtening is required on the wall itself and the foundation . The story there is that it will get more complicated and more expensive fast the higher the land is .

 

Yes the land was raised quite high and the length is 45 metres, the foundations were deep and extra steel was put inwards to the land tied with concrete polls, but as this was 10 years ago and we had to go back to Australia mid point of the build, we didn't get to inspect the weep holes which would have helped somewhat, but you live and learn, as you say, it more complicated because its been filled and is higher on one side, about 10 metres, the other about a metre, and the rear about 2 metres which is still standing, but with the downpour during rain season at the time, continuous for days on, possibly a couple of weeks, over she went, best part of 240,000 baht gone, nothing to cry about, at least the house is still standing as is the front fence, which is level to the road and the rear fence as previously mentioned.

 

Looking at a different approaches now and of course the least expensive, perhaps some big rocks pushed into the land ?

[bark]

On 2/9/2559 at 3:01 PM, bark said:

According to Donald Trump; if you use Mexican Labor.

They will build it for you; and also pay all costs.

Try sunrise Taco, many restaurants in Bangkok.

 

Also wanted to add. The food is also great !

[Gary A]

The 40 meter retaining portion of our wall has 2 inch PVC through the wall at ground level every few meters. The outside also has what I would call outriggers poured into the foundation in several places and are at the outside ground level in several places. They are now covered with dirt and cannot be seen. I wouldn't want cowboys building a wall for me. The approximately 40 meter wall the I previously mentioned looked well built but the foundation was way too shallow and narrow. When the wall fell over, It all went down in one piece.

[sezze]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Yes the land was raised quite high and the length is 45 metres, the foundations were deep and extra steel was put inwards to the land tied with concrete polls, but as this was 10 years ago and we had to go back to Australia mid point of the build, we didn't get to inspect the weep holes which would have helped somewhat, but you live and learn, as you say, it more complicated because its been filled and is higher on one side, about 10 metres, the other about a metre, and the rear about 2 metres which is still standing, but with the downpour during rain season at the time, continuous for days on, possibly a couple of weeks, over she went, best part of 240,000 baht gone, nothing to cry about, at least the house is still standing as is the front fence, which is level to the road and the rear fence as previously mentioned.

 

Looking at a different approaches now and of course the least expensive, perhaps some big rocks pushed into the land ?

 

If you want a wall , google "french drain" , which you more then probably need to keep the weep holes free , and work better then them .

Big rocks will do also , but maybe the sand will wash away . and it can go fast with a few big rains. I do not know prices of these rocks , but i do not think they are not cheap also . 

Alternatives for keeping the land inside is a sloping approach , where your land is raised not as much at the borders and higher in the middle and some special grass 

. As far as i see your story , a french drain or similar technique needs to be put in place , sloping it and drainage at lowest point or not sloping with wall or similar , you absolutely a good drainage system .

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, sezze said:

 

If you want a wall , google "french drain" , which you more then probably need to keep the weep holes free , and work better then them .

Big rocks will do also , but maybe the sand will wash away . and it can go fast with a few big rains. I do not know prices of these rocks , but i do not think they are not cheap also . 

Alternatives for keeping the land inside is a sloping approach , where your land is raised not as much at the borders and higher in the middle and some special grass 

. As far as i see your story , a french drain or similar technique needs to be put in place , sloping it and drainage at lowest point or not sloping with wall or similar , you absolutely a good drainage system .

 

Appreciate the heads up, I am going to go the Gabion way, see link with photo's, I can build these cages myself as opposed to paying 500 baht per cage, then all I have to do is get the rocks and load them in, and as I calculate that I need 3 cages high x 1 metre each by the length of the land, 40 metres on one side and 1 metre x 30 cages and 2 x 10 cages on the other side, I will be saving about 80,000 baht sfter tasking out materials to build the cages, and as I am already down the original cost of 240,000 baht 10 years ago to build the fence including front and rear boundaries which are still standing, I don't want to have to spend money on it all over again if you know what I mean, this approach I believe will work and at minimal expense, e.g. cost of concrete galvanised mesh, tie wire and a lot of labour on mine and my wife's part.  

 

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=gabion+wall+design&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=775&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_odj8-_fOAhVEp48KHZ0OAUEQsAQIJQ

[Hutch68]

9 hours ago, Gary A said:

The 40 meter retaining portion of our wall has 2 inch PVC through the wall at ground level every few meters. The outside also has what I would call outriggers poured into the foundation in several places and are at the outside ground level in several places. They are now covered with dirt and cannot be seen. I wouldn't want cowboys building a wall for me. The approximately 40 meter wall the I previously mentioned looked well built but the foundation was way too shallow and narrow. When the wall fell over, It all went down in one piece.

250.000 for a wall that's cracking and you wouldn't want cowboys building your wall? What a hoot.

[Hutch68]

Ooo wa ooo wa ooo wa wa wa, ooo wa ooo wa ooo wa wa wa [higher] ooo ooo wa wa wa wa [lower] ooo wa ooo wa ooo wa wa [flat]!!!!!!!

[gprit]

Thanks for all the information - will work my way through shortly.  Couple of additional questions:

1) Which is best?  Preformed posts or ones hand built with wire/cement - bearing in mind the land is nearly 1m higher than neighbours. Any cost comparison?

2) Any thoughts on how much the foundations would cost, given the above.

3) Any thoughts on cement/sand costs for the 100m wall.

 

thanks

 

 

btw I am based in Uk, the wall is for my wife's parents prior to building a house.

[manxninja]

Why do people use the posts when building garden walls? Ive just built a large boundry wall about 2 rai perimiter, using block pillars and expansion joints, the thais never seen such like and kept asking if it would fall down.

 

The materials compared to the west approx two thirds cheaper, but the blocks with the holes in are to be honest crap, couldnt find a solid block, but that was in buriram.

 

Local labour 250 baht a day, but not a brain between them, cant be left unsupervised as will make a mess of the simplest task again

thai knows best. 

 

The only building trowels they sell in the whole of buriram are what i call pointing trowels about as much use as a small spoon.

 

I personally given what i saw when using thai workers, wouldnt let them build a man hole never mind proper construction. 

[Deepinthailand]

On 03/09/2016 at 8:13 PM, Hutch68 said:

 

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Deepinthailand
Forum posting error

[Deepinthailand]

7 hours ago, manxninja said:

Why do people use the posts when building garden walls? Ive just built a large boundry wall about 2 rai perimiter, using block pillars and expansion joints, the thais never seen such like and kept asking if it would fall down.

 

The materials compared to the west approx two thirds cheaper, but the blocks with the holes in are to be honest crap, couldnt find a solid block, but that was in buriram.

 

Local labour 250 baht a day, but not a brain between them, cant be left unsupervised as will make a mess of the simplest task again

thai knows best. 

 

The only building trowels they sell in the whole of buriram are what i call pointing trowels about as much use as a small spoon.

 

I personally given what i saw when using thai workers, wouldnt let them build a man hole never mind proper construction. 

Yawn so hi so another excuse to thai bash and feel superior. The rate by the way for a days labour is 350 bht guess you prefer slaves

Edited September 9, 2016 by Deepinthailand

[somo]

On 9/7/2016 at 2:43 PM, gprit said:

Thanks for all the information - will work my way through shortly.  Couple of additional questions:

1) Which is best?  Preformed posts or ones hand built with wire/cement - bearing in mind the land is nearly 1m higher than neighbours. Any cost comparison?

2) Any thoughts on how much the foundations would cost, given the above.

3) Any thoughts on cement/sand costs for the 100m wall.

 

thanks

 

 

btw I am based in Uk, the wall is for my wife's parents prior to building a house.

 

I wouldn't bother with so much detail for a simple wall. Allow 1000 Baht/metre all in and let them get on with it.

By the way it seems odd to build the wall before the house. It will get in the way when building materials are delivered.

 

[manxninja]

Not hi so in the slightest. Just a top tradesman in my own country.

 

I say as it is, poor quality workers, not saying lazy, just stupid in the extreme and unskilled.

 

I pay 250 baht as thats all the labourers are worth. You get what your worth in life. I paid one that showed a bit of nouse 400 as i taught

him how to lay a few properly.

[gprit]

Just a further question - I think most of the replies have been for building a wall with breezeblock (and maybe a render each side)....and concensus is around 1000/1250baht per metre all in, including foundations.

 

For the same 100 meter wall - any 'rule of thumb' cost for a BRICK built wall and pillars?  What is the standard brick size in Thailand?  How many bricks need per sq. meter?

 

Also.....no one has mentioned damp proof course  (DPC) here......is this available in Thailand? (remmeber I am in UK and this is for my parents in law....).   Wall is for side and back...keeping the front open for lorries/builders etc.

thanks

Edited September 17, 2016 by gprit

[Deepinthailand]

On 09/09/2016 at 11:23 PM, manxninja said:

Not hi so in the slightest. Just a top tradesman in my own country.

 

I say as it is, poor quality workers, not saying lazy, just stupid in the extreme and unskilled.

 

I pay 250 baht as thats all the labourers are worth. You get what your worth in life. I paid one that showed a bit of nouse 400 as i taught

him how to lay a few properly.

Top tradesman in your own mind  I expect. If you only pay 250 I'm not suprised no one wants to do the job properly. 

[manxninja]

4 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

Top tradesman in your own mind  I expect. If you only pay 250 I'm not suprised no one wants to do the job properly. 

Yes dear. 

 

Carry on on being the family atm.

 

i will carry on earning £1200 a week in London, being a bad tradesman. ?

[Deepinthailand]

3 hours ago, manxninja said:

Yes dear. 

 

Carry on on being the family atm.

 

i will carry on earning £1200 a week in London, being a bad tradesman. ?

In your own mind dear farewell

[gprit]

We seem to have gone off track here with some banal comments.

The last question was:

I think most of the replies have been for building a wall with breezeblock (and maybe a render each side)....and concensus is around 1000/1250baht per metre all in, including foundations.

 

For the same 100 meter wall - any 'rule of thumb' cost for a BRICK built wall and pillars?  What is the standard brick size in Thailand?  How many bricks need per sq. meter?

 

Also.....no one has mentioned damp proof course  (DPC) here......is this available in Thailand? (remember I am in UK and this is for my parents in law....).   Wall is for side and back...keeping the front open for lorries/builders etc.

thanks

[manxninja]

Don't need a dpc for a garden wall. But I couldn't find any what you would call bricks in any builders merchant, they were just those red

strange rex looking things, certainly not what id call a brick.

 

You will see gaps at the side of the blockwork, where lots use the concrete post system. 

 

They will probably want that, as that's how you build walls in Thailand, apparently. Good luck with the project.

 

As for paying 100,000 baht for a 100 metre wall. I did it with local labour for approx 35,000 Buy your own materials, use the locals for the

hand digging and manual labour, that doesn't take any brainwork and get 1 skilled man to oversee it.

[Gary A]

I would suggest that you check your figures. That 35,000 baht would barely cover the labor. It certainly would not cover the materials.

[manxninja]

Dont need to check the figures, been there done it about 4 months ago.

 

My figures are correct, self build with a few manual labourers on minimum wage.

[Gary A]

44 minutes ago, manxninja said:

Dont need to check the figures, been there done it about 4 months ago.

 

My figures are correct, self build with a few manual labourers on minimum wage.

 

You should hire out and make a lot of money building walls.

[Dumbastheycome]

Around my area the standard labour cost asked is  1000Bht per  each 3 metre span between posts at a height average of 2 > 2.2 metres. And  most are not built well because the  foundation is rarely  put below all surrounding ground. So if you  backfill to level or raise there is a high probability it will gradually leach under to the neighbours. The posts are usually set on soil and not tied or incorporated into the foundation or set deep enough. It  might seem extreme but the posts should  be set into  original soil at adepth  not less than  25 % of the  eventual finished height from the  foundation and set on and surrounded with concrete. On sloping ground  ties set underground as part of the foundation are a wise idea if  all backfilling is likely to add  pressure.

I have  had about 75 metres of wall built under  my supervision and refused the 1000bht. Instead I paid workers  350 Bht per day.

The  75 metres cost me 178000 in total . And that included a continuous steel rod set  along  evry  3rd row of blocks passing through  each post.  Each 3rd row  of blocks wth the  steel rod was set upside down and  fully filled  with  concrete including the  top row.

A truck  could   hit that wall and it is unlikely  to fall down .

But.... I regret  building a wall  now. The near ground air flow is  massively reduced and  now I would consider a  partial  wall with steel  hexagonal mesh inserts.

Best luck to you  for  your outcome. :)

 

[Hutch68]

7 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Around my area the standard labour cost asked is  1000Bht per  each 3 metre span between posts at a height average of 2 > 2.2 metres. And  most are not built well because the  foundation is rarely  put below all surrounding ground. So if you  backfill to level or raise there is a high probability it will gradually leach under to the neighbours. The posts are usually set on soil and not tied or incorporated into the foundation or set deep enough. It  might seem extreme but the posts should  be set into  original soil at adepth  not less than  25 % of the  eventual finished height from the  foundation and set on and surrounded with concrete. On sloping ground  ties set underground as part of the foundation are a wise idea if  all backfilling is likely to add  pressure.

I have  had about 75 metres of wall built under  my supervision and refused the 1000bht. Instead I paid workers  350 Bht per day.

The  75 metres cost me 178000 in total . And that included a continuous steel rod set  along  evry  3rd row of blocks passing through  each post.  Each 3rd row  of blocks wth the  steel rod was set upside down and  fully filled  with  concrete including the  top row.

A truck  could   hit that wall and it is unlikely  to fall down .

But.... I regret  building a wall  now. The near ground air flow is  massively reduced and  now I would consider a  partial  wall with steel  hexagonal mesh inserts.

Best luck to you  for  your outcome.

Probably the best post on this thread yet, a tall wall around one rai will trap the heat in and reflect the sun and burn your arse off, buy a gun.

 

[willem1946]

Very nice ppl  (a family) are now building the wall around our land ( 1.2  rai) here near Pho Thale, I pay then 65000 baht for everything, except the material we buy ourself, the ppl who built dont do difficult about some extra work and they do an excellent job sofar.

[misterphil]

Ive been quoted 1,000 baht per m @ 2m high plus material. 

 

Total length of the wall is 173m

 

This is in Saraburi.

 

Does it sound right?