Sturgeon warns Scotland will decide its European future independently

[autanic]

14 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

I think everything is in a state of flux at the moment. Scotland could have multiple options including a Scottish pound. 

Not that old chestnut. Need I remind you that Pound Sterling is the currency of the United Kingdom, leave it and you leave the pound too.

[autanic]

Nicola, needs to take a reality check.

 

1. Scotland is NOT a member of the European Union. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a member of the European Union.

2. A universally accepted EU referendum, was carried out in the UK as a whole and the result was we are leaving the EU.

3. All nations of the UK, will leave the EU.

4. No single nation can apply, cohere or moan incessantly to stay independently.

5. Teresa May the Prime Minster of the UK has ruled a second referendum. 

6. Nicola Sturgeon has declared she wants a new Independence Referendum for Scotland to leave the rest of the UK.

7. If Westminster grant the referendum, it can take place.

8. By the time the Scotts get a Independence Referendum, the whole of the UK including Scotland would have left the UK.

9. If Scotland wins the Independence Referendum, they will be joining the EU as a new member Country.

10. This process takes around 10 years or so.

11. Scotland will have to accept the Euro (if it is still around) as their new currency.

12. Scotts will not be able to come to the rest of the UK and would be subject to immigration controls.

13. The rest of the UK, would have left Scotland behind and signed deals for FTA all over the world, meaning not only have we got rid of the EU, we have the bonus of getting rid of Scotland too.

14. Maybe we should take a page out of Donald Trumps playbook and build a Northern Wall, to stop them coming into the UK.

15. Finally, the UK may not be stronger together, we have cut some Scottish Fat.

[RuamRudy]

12 hours ago, dave_boo said:

Can I, as an outsider, ask a question?

 

 

Will those countries, and more, get a fair shake or will the destabilisation of the EU resulting from providing the acceptance of those above prevent the EU from accepting an independent Scotland?

 

Apologies but I deleted the long list of regions for brevity's sake.

 

What you listed are, in the main, not contiguous countries. Scotland existed as an independent country prior to 1707. Since that time it has retained its own legal system, education system, religion and, most definitely, cultural identity. Scotland has never been subsumed into a greater England; the Union is exactly that - a cooperative partnership between different countries. 

 

Off topic, but the union was never put to a plebiscite, but decided by an effete elite who were seduced by power and money, 'a parcel of rogues', as our Bard called them. Treason or foolishness? Either way, it is high time that this historic mistake was corrected.

[dave_boo]

53 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Apologies but I deleted the long list of regions for brevity's sake.

 

What you listed are, in the main, not contiguous countries. Scotland existed as an independent country prior to 1707. Since that time it has retained its own legal system, education system, religion and, most definitely, cultural identity. Scotland has never been subsumed into a greater England; the Union is exactly that - a cooperative partnership between different countries. 

 

Off topic, but the union was never put to a plebiscite, but decided by an effete elite who were seduced by power and money, 'a parcel of rogues', as our Bard called them. Treason or foolishness? Either way, it is high time that this historic mistake was corrected.

No worries about making the forum more readable (perhaps a "spoiler" type quotation that hides excessive parts of the post and yet still allows expansion could be implemented?).  And thanks for your thoughts.

[Grouse]

16 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

Yep

 

 

http://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries/member-countries/estonia_en

 

Estonia is absolutely delirious as is every Country that is a net gainer. Neither is Estonia part of the topic.

 

But your deflection has not gone unnoticed.

 

I, and the followers of this forum, who are all in awe (  ) of your superior intellectual levels are waiting for you to explain how being a member of the EU equates to being Independent.

 

If you are having difficulty in understanding my English. I make no apologies, English is my second language. Off topic but I am also fluent in German and French, I also speak Thai. Urdu and Pashtu.

 

Perhaps you could get your father to explain Pog mo Thon.

 

 

 

He's dead, thanks.

[Grouse]

16 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

Yep

 

 

http://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries/member-countries/estonia_en

 

Estonia is absolutely delirious as is every Country that is a net gainer. Neither is Estonia part of the topic.

 

But your deflection has not gone unnoticed.

 

I, and the followers of this forum, who are all in awe (  ) of your superior intellectual levels are waiting for you to explain how being a member of the EU equates to being Independent.

 

If you are having difficulty in understanding my English. I make no apologies, English is my second language. Off topic but I am also fluent in German and French, I also speak Thai. Urdu and Pashtu.

 

Perhaps you could get your father to explain Pog mo Thon.

 

 

 

Why are you so consistently rude?

 

I have obviously benefited from an excellent education. Why are you so sore about that?

 

I would like the moderators to delete your post because of the Gaelic quote and because of your rudeness ( It means "kiss my arse" or words to that effect)

 

Now, back to the point. I used Estonia as an example because it has been in the news recently. It's not a deflection, it was just an example of a small Northern European country, as is Scotland.

 

They have clearly benefited and the population is very pro EU

 

No country (with the possible exception of North Korea) is truely independent. All countries surrender a degree of sovereignty to share certain benefits. We can argue the appropriate balance.

 

You and your ilk voted the UK out of the EU. I accept that and I appreciate your generosity of spirit.

 

However, I and others value the social democracy of other EU member countries and would prefer to remain a member

 

I think the Euro issue is a red herring. Maybe Scotland can have its own currency such as the Scottish Pound. I don't know, I don't have that specialist knowledge.

 

Since you ask, I speak German and Danish. My Thai is lamentable. Needless to say, my English is pretty good.

[Grouse]

16 hours ago, Naam said:

zindabad Sergeant Rock Khan!

 

Kindly remove foreign language statements

[nontabury]

22 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Well we now know that the numpties outnumber the wise in England and Wales, so a majority would most probably be for "chucking the Scots out"

 

 

Now that you have left England, it is more likely that the wise Now outnumber the numties.

[RuamRudy]

AN independent Scotland’s chances of automatic EU entry got a massive boost yesterday as a big supporter of the move was made a chief Brexit negotiator.

 

As Mr Verhofstadt tweeted in June, “It’s wrong that Scotland might be taken out of EU, when it voted to stay. Happy to discuss with Nicola Sturgeon,”

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

AN independent Scotland’s chances of automatic EU entry got a massive boost yesterday as a big supporter of the move was made a chief Brexit negotiator.

 

As Mr Verhofstadt tweeted in June, “It’s wrong that Scotland might be taken out of EU, when it voted to stay. Happy to discuss with Nicola Sturgeon,”

 

Any port in a storm RR?

[nontabury]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

AN independent Scotland’s chances of automatic EU entry got a massive boost yesterday as a big supporter of the move was made a chief Brexit negotiator.

 

As Mr Verhofstadt tweeted in June, “It’s wrong that Scotland might be taken out of EU, when it voted to stay. Happy to discuss with Nicola Sturgeon,”

 

 

     That is His personnel opinion,means absolutely nothing. Better to take account of many statements from the Spanish Prime Minister,and others.

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 

     That is His personnel opinion,means absolutely nothing. Better to take account of many statements from the Spanish Prime Minister,and others.

 

Which are those? Where he stated that if Scotland was to secede the union in an internationally recognised manner, there would be no objection from Spain?

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

Any port in a storm RR?

 

He is not some pokey little seaside resort, well past its prime - to continue your analogy, he is the Singapore of EU politicians. 

[SheungWan]

The odds are that the SNP will wait to see which way the economic wind blows for Brexit and then consider options.

[Franky Bear]

How is this working out haha

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, Franky Bear said:

How is this working out haha

 

Not bad so far - the BREXIT debacle continues to demonstrate how feckless our unelected Tory government is, while the PM is on her way to the US to flash her ankles to a clown that makes even Boris look sensible as she scrabbles to try to grasp some semblence of positivity from the poisoned cup of puke she so willingly grasped. The SNP, by contrast, continue to make steady and competent progress in leading Scotland, untroubled as they are by a Labour party that seems intent on self-immolation at precisely the time they should be on the attack. As Salmond pointed out this week, far more people in Scotland, by majority and percentage, wanted to stay within Europe as wanted to stay within the United Kingdom. What a fantastic platform to kick off Indy Ref2 from!

 

Personally, I am looking forward to Westminster ditching the Sewell Convention and forcing a change on the Scotland Act 1998 against the will of the devolved parliament - what a great propaganda opportunity that will be.

 

 

[Franky Bear]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Not bad so far - the BREXIT debacle continues to demonstrate how feckless our unelected Tory government is, while the PM is on her way to the US to flash her ankles to a clown that makes even Boris look sensible as she scrabbles to try to grasp some semblence of positivity from the poisoned cup of puke she so willingly grasped. The SNP, by contrast, continue to make steady and competent progress in leading Scotland, untroubled as they are by a Labour party that seems intent on self-immolation at precisely the time they should be on the attack. As Salmond pointed out this week, far more people in Scotland, by majority and percentage, wanted to stay within Europe as wanted to stay within the United Kingdom. What a fantastic platform to kick off Indy Ref2 from!

 

Personally, I am looking forward to Westminster ditching the Sewell Convention and forcing a change on the Scotland Act 1998 against the will of the devolved parliament - what a great propaganda opportunity that will be.

 

 

Ok haha.

[IMA_FARANG]

Oh good.

Scotland out of the U.K.

And the U.K. out of the EU zone.

But I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[yardrunner]

2 hours ago, IMA_FARANG said:

Oh good.

Scotland out of the U.K.

And the U.K. out of the EU zone.

But I'll believe it when I see it.

 

If Scotland has another referendum on devolution can we in England have a referendum on whether we want Scotland

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, yardrunner said:

If Scotland has another referendum on devolution can we in England have a referendum on whether we want Scotland

Theirs was the only attempted divorce I can think of that didn't involve both parties.

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Theirs was the only attempted divorce I can think of that didn't involve both parties.

 

There is another, more recent one that you may have missed.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

There is another, more recent one that you may have missed.

 

Is this it?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/article-50-bill-process-begins  

I don't recall any exclusions, except the odd 15+ year expat.

Edited January 26, 2017 by evadgib

[RuamRudy]

29 minutes ago, evadgib said:

 

Is this it?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/article-50-bill-process-begins  

I don't recall any exclusions, except the odd 15+ year expat.

 

Maybe I misunderstood your previous post, but I took it that you were suggesting that all parties in the UK should have had a say in Scotland leaving.

 

If that was, indeed, what you were suggesting then this would be the equivalent of asking all other member countries of the EU whether Brexit can go ahead.

[vogie]

[RuamRudy]

9 hours ago, vogie said:

 

There are more than him in Scotland who think along the lines of the above; as a personal friend of Prince Charles I would have been surprised if he was anything less that staunchly unionist, and as we are a broad church in Scotland, he is welcome to his opinion but it should hold no more weight than your average man in the street.

 

What I do object to, however, is this idea of Scottish racism. All through the last referendum debate there were people on this forum who repeatedly made refeence to a rampany anti-english sentiment in Scotland. I made it a personal point to challenge each and every one to provide evidence to back up that claim, and I kid you not - only 1 person was able to provide something tangible, and what they claimed was that in the late 60's in Ayr, someone told him to go back to England. Nothing else was put forward - that was the full extent of anti-english sentiment experienced by all these TV posters, yet they were still happy to  come out with this insulting and demeaning lie repeatedly, obviously through the mindset that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes accepted as the truth.

 

That, in this case, it is a Scot who is making these statements is sad, but nothing I can do about that - other than to ask you now the question I asked all through 2014: what evidence can you point to that shows supporters of Scottish independence as being racists, bigots or anti-english?

 

P.S. If you want to see the other side of the coin, if you are not in Thailand take a look at the online comments on any Daily Mail or Telegraph article about Scotland. Then you will see who the true bigots are.

[evadgib]

18 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Maybe I misunderstood your previous post, but I took it that you were suggesting that all parties in the UK should have had a say in Scotland leaving.

 

If that was, indeed, what you were suggesting then this would be the equivalent of asking all other member countries of the EU whether Brexit can go ahead.

The reason the English/rest of UK weren't asked is because Cameron's Govt realised you'd be out at the first attempt and bankrupted shortly thereafter, threatening the rest in the process.

 

The 27 Remaining (no pun intended) will have their say for 2 years from 31 March.

 

That to me is democracy. I'm glad we're leaving the EU but am in no hurry to disband the Union .

 

BTW: Have you forgotten how Scotland joined in the first place?

Edited January 27, 2017 by evadgib

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, evadgib said:

.

 

BTW: Have you forgotten how Scotland joined in the first place?

 

I cannot quite see the relevance, but if I recall my history, the Darien scheme was doomed from the start - a possibly worthy aspiration given the events of the times, but poorly thought out and poorly executed. But the act of the union itself was very unpopular - as Daniel Defoe wrote, "for every Scot in favour there is 99 against". Burns said it best, however, when he wrote "We're bought and sold for English gold. Such a parcel of rogues in a nation! "

[evadgib]

What did he make of the English? :)

Edited January 27, 2017 by evadgib

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, evadgib said:

What did he make of the English? :)

Defoe or Burns? I assume Defoe was 100% in favour; Burns was probably a bit more nonplussed - but he was not railing against the English, but rather the vain Scottish dandies who spent too much time at court.

[Chicog]

She should share a flat with Netanyahu. Nobody but a few rabid nationalists like him either.