Britain jails radical Muslim cleric Anjem Choudary

[swanny321]

        Anjem Choudary -   enema of the state.

[Laughing Gravy]

4 hours ago, useronthenet said:

If UK wants to get rid of these radicals, then radical legislation needs to be introduced. 5.5 years is hardly a deterrent. Life imprisonment should have been given with no parole. He is a dangerous security risk to the country.

I hope he is served pork sausages everyday as I have met people who claim to be devout Muslim and aggressively force their view on you but eat pork behind peoples back and drink. My point is what a hypocrite.  I hope he is seen by peaceful Muslims for what he really is. The fact he was claiming benefits is another farce to his cause. Send him to Mecca he will be well received there.

 

I have no sympathy for this vile hateful man who hid behind the liberalist and soft British Laws. A coward.

[Andaman Al]

I found the video I was after. Please skip all the shi*e spouted by this pos and go to 8min 45 for the vinegar stroke   Please US, he is in custody now someone start a petition to bring him in and let him taste the delights of a supermax for 50 years.

 

 

[7by7]

6 hours ago, Richard W said:

There's a serious technical problem.  He was born British.  If he's any sense, he'll have ditched his Pakistani nationality, so there's nowhere to deport him to.

 

I'm sure he never had Pakistani nationality, only British.

 

But if you know different.........

[eddie61]

If it were my choice he would have bullet hole between his eyes and a big mess behind him, with the shit in his brains for all to see.

 

But fortunately there is a system of justice in the UK, a country that probably welcomed him, educated him, and gave him the freedom to express his opinion and practice his religion.

 

I really just wish he would have had the same freedoms in Raqqa, or maybe I secretly don't wish it, and wish he were in Raqqa.

 

[7by7]

Five and a half years does seem to lenient; but as the judge said, he could only impose a sentence based upon the crime he was convicted of.

 

He and Rahman will be held in high security units, away from other prisoners they could influence.

 

Both men were also sentenced to a notification order lasting 15 years, which requires them to tell police if details such as their address change.

 

The police and CPS have been trying to prosecute him for years; but he is an intelligent, trained lawyer and managed to stay just the right side of the law.

 

Thankfully, he finally slipped up.

 

One can but hope that by the time he is released his so called cause will no longer exist.

 

Of course, if the media hadn't given him and those like him so much publicity, his influence over the gullible would have much less. I still can't fully understand why he and those like him get all the publicity whilst the majority who oppose his views get damn all. he sells papers, his opponents don't, I suppose.

 

A few of his supporters and family did express their support for him in court; but he doesn't, and never did, have the support of the majority of British Muslims.

How British Muslims reacted to Anjem Choudary's conviction

Quote

Muslims and Muslim organisations around the country have come out in support of the verdict, with many saying they have been waiting years for Choudary to be locked away. 

 

[NeedCoffeeNow]

13 hours ago, vogie said:

What a pitiful sentence considering all the deaths and suffering he is responsible for, typical British justice. I feel sure the Americans would have given him life.

Are you serious. Here in America its unlikely he would have been charged and if he was he would most likely sue and win for having his rights violated.

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, NeedCoffeeNow said:

Are you serious. Here in America its unlikely he would have been charged and if he was he would most likely sue and win for having his rights violated.

 

I not too sure, you banged up Abu Hamza for life and I'm sure Choudary is as bad if not worse.

 

[Lex Talionis]

 

He should be separated from general population for the rest of his life. Send him to Guantanimo permanently.

His head should be segregated from his body.

[chowny77]

I wish the DSI had him in their care. He would be already done in with a pair of socks and possible liver failure.

[joecoolfrog]

2 hours ago, chowny77 said:

I wish the DSI had him in their care. He would be already done in with a pair of socks and possible liver failure.

And what if they decide one day they dont like something you say '

? Choudary and his ilk make a mockery of free speech but it must be defended at all costs , as must the rule of law and due process.

 

 

[nottocus]

Should have cut his head off

[johna]

22 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

He should be separated from general population for the rest of his life. Send him to Guantanimo permanently.

Guantanamo is far too comfortable.

[katana]

On 06/09/2016 at 11:27 PM, webfact said:

" Britain jails radical Muslim cleric Anjem Choudary
LONDON: -- A court in Britain has jailed the country’s best-known radical Muslim cleric for five and a half years for urging support of ISIL .
Anjem Choudary, whose supporters have been linked with terrorist attacks around the world, was found guilty by a jury in July of using online lectures and messages to  encourage support for the banned Islamic extremists. He denied his guilt and insisted the trial was politically motivated...[snip]"

If ISIL, Boko Haram, Al-Qaeda & Al-Shabaab etc are misunderstanding Islam, it's strange that they all misunderstand it exactly the same way...

 

 

[7by7]

Not really.

 

Their aims are the same, their methods are the same and the people behind them are probably the same as well.

 

I very much doubt that the people behind these terrorist misunderstand Islam at all. They pervert it to suit their aims and the gullible fanatics fall for it.

 

Fortunately, those gullible fanatics are just a tiny percentage of the world's Muslim population. Not that that in anyway reduces the seriousness of the problem.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Not really.

 

Their aims are the same, their methods are the same and the people behind them are probably the same as well.

 

I very much doubt that the people behind these terrorist misunderstand Islam at all. They pervert it to suit their aims and the gullible fanatics fall for it.

 

Fortunately, those gullible fanatics are just a tiny percentage of the world's Muslim population. Not that that in anyway reduces the seriousness of the problem.

 

It's a conspiracy, then?

 

There are numerous ways people practice any given religion, including Islam. To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a single faith which boasts total unity of beliefs among its followers. 

 

Asserting that the "people behind them" (whatever that's supposed to mean) are aware of a hypothetical "true Islam", but intentionally spread a "perverted" version solely to further their own agenda, is preposterous. There is no particular reason to assume that leaders of religiously motivated terrorist organizations, or influential figures related to such organizations are not true believers.

 

Sounds like even the usually touted "tiny minority" gets off the hook, as they are merely "gullible", whereas the real blame lies with the "people behind them".

[7by7]

Conspiracy? Possibly; it just seems odd to me that all these Islamic terrorist groups have appeared over the last 15 - 20 years if there is not one organisation spurring them on.

 

Do you know for sure that is not the case?

 

Yes, most, if not all, religions have different sects which interpret their religion in different ways; but that is not what I meant when I said that the terrorists, whether one single organisation or multitudinous groups, pervert Islam for their own ends.

 

I am not, of course, attempting to ley any terrorist or supporter of terrorism of the hook, whether they be a brainwashed foot soldier or those doing the brainwashing!

 

I know that there are some members here who believe that every atrocity carried out by these evil people is justified, even instructed in the Koran; but I thought you, Morch, were more intelligent than that.

[Boon Mee]

On 9/7/2016 at 9:09 AM, Ulysses G. said:

 

He should be separated from general population for the rest of his life. Send him to Guantanimo permanently.

No, put him in that SuperMax in Colorado with the Blind Shiek who is never getting out..

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Conspiracy? Possibly; it just seems odd to me that all these Islamic terrorist groups have appeared over the last 15 - 20 years if there is not one organisation spurring them on.

 

Do you know for sure that is not the case?

 

Yes, most, if not all, religions have different sects which interpret their religion in different ways; but that is not what I meant when I said that the terrorists, whether one single organisation or multitudinous groups, pervert Islam for their own ends.

 

I am not, of course, attempting to ley any terrorist or supporter of terrorism of the hook, whether they be a brainwashed foot soldier or those doing the brainwashing!

 

I know that there are some members here who believe that every atrocity carried out by these evil people is justified, even instructed in the Koran; but I thought you, Morch, were more intelligent than that.

 

Doubt the tin foil hat would provide the deflection sought.

There were Islamic terrorist groups around earlier than stated in your post (early-mid 80's in the Middle East, for example).

 

Sects? Most major religions exhibits differences between at least two mainstream groups. Historically, these differences tended to have violent consequences. Hence, the notion that there is an agreed upon (or "true") faith, is not quite accurate. Even within these mainstream views there could be different interpretations of religious teachings.

 

If one wishes to apply "perverting Islam for their own ends", it could sit well with many religious leaderships, not necessarily to just those of a violent bent. Islam is not unique in that, the same goes for many ideologies and religions. 

 

Your last lines are either the obligatory personal attack or testify to your own lack of comprehension. There was nothing in my post which suggested the nonsense attributed to me.

[7by7]

Yes, I am aware that there were Muslim terrorist groups well before the timeline I used; in fact one could go back as early as the 7th century and the Khawarij!

 

In the latter half of the 20th century Islamic terrorism was mainly directed against other sects of Islam or secularism in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan etc. and, of course, against Israel and Israelis, such as the massacre at the Munich Olympics.

 

My point being that it is only in the last 15 to 20 years that various, often new, Islamic terrorist groups have been targeting Europe, North America etc.

 

Yes, many so called religious leaders form various religions have perverted their religion to suit their political agenda and justify their violence against others in pursuit of that agenda; and still are to this day. I have said as much many times in different topics. That is exactly the point I am making about the people behind ISIS et al!

 

My last lines were prompted by

On ‎09‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 3:08 PM, Morch said:

Asserting that the "people behind them" (whatever that's supposed to mean) are aware of a hypothetical "true Islam", but intentionally spread a "perverted" version solely to further their own agenda, is preposterous. There is no particular reason to assume that leaders of religiously motivated terrorist organizations, or influential figures related to such organizations are not true believers.

which I took to mean that you were using the "all true Muslims support the terrorists because the Koran tells them to" ballocks so beloved of certain members.

 

If I misinterpreted those remarks I apologise and ask that you please explain what you did mean.

Edited September 10, 2016 by 7by7
Correct typo

[Ulysses G.]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Your last lines are either the obligatory personal attack or testify to your own lack of comprehension. There was nothing in my post which suggested the nonsense attributed to me.

 

A combination of the obligatory personal attack and an attempt to divert

From the fact that the Koran DOES support much of radical Islam's agenda.

[7by7]

Ah, the old "repeat the lie often enough and hope people will believe it is the truth" ploy; again.

 

As has been shown to you many, many times; terrorism is against the teachings of Islam and ISIS and their ilk have been condemned on multitudinous occasions by Muslim scholars and religious leaders of all sects across the world.

 

Some more examples;

• Top Ten Ways Islamic Law forbids Terrorism
• Aren't there some verses of the Quran that condone "killing the infidel"? 
• What does Islam say about terrorism?

Now many may say that as those are all written by Muslims then they would say that and can't be trusted.

 

So here is an article by the respected academic and terrorism expert, Donald Holbrook: Using the Qur’an to Justify Terrorist Violence: Analysing Selective Application of the Qur’an in English-Language Militant Islamist Discourse

Quote

Abstract

Selective Qur'anic referencing comprises a core element of radical Islamist discourse endorsing militancy. These are often embedded in wider religious deliberations which also cite numerous Hadith and other religious sources to support a given argument. This article seeks to analyse and document the way in which specific verses of the Qur'an are used to legitimise justifications put forward for violence and targeting in a selected corpus of English- language extremist Islamist material. The article concludes that application of the teachings of the Qur'an is altered and tailored in major militant Islamist treatises to match their political narrative, thus violating strict Salafistic demands for literal application of the Qur'an's message

(7by7 emphasis)

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Ah, the old "repeat the lie often enough and hope people will believe it is the truth" ploy; again.

 

 

That applies very well to much of what you post on this forum. I'm sure you are aware that there is PLENTY of evidence to the contrary, that Islam is a religion of "peace."

 

Influential Islamist Sayyid Qutb wrote:

"The defeatists should fear Allah lest they distort this religion and cause it to become weak on the basis of the claim that it is a religion of peace. Yes, it is the religion of peace but in the sense of saving all of mankind from worshiping anything other than Allah and submitting all of mankind to the rule of Allah."

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi said:

 

"Islam was never a religion of peace. Islam is the religion of fighting. No one should believe that the war that we are waging is the war of the Islamic State. It is the war of all Muslims, but the Islamic State is spearheading it. It is the war of Muslims against infidels. O Muslims, go to war everywhere. It is the duty of every Muslim."

 

Many more examples from the Koran on this website:

 

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

Edited September 10, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[SgtRock]

It matters not one iota what anyone says, from forum posters, to academics, the Quran, the Hadiths or any others in between.

 

What matters is the claims made by the various groups worldwide of  head choppers, suicide bombers, throwing gays off buildings, mass sexual assault and every other atrocity that I have not covered say.

 

And they all say the same thing. IT IS DONE IN THE NAME OF ISLAM AND MOHAMMED

 

The goal is one and the same. A WORLDWIDE CALIPHATE.

 

Despite the procrastinations of certain forum members and the duplicity of those that are in power in the UK in their attempt to suppress certain information regarding Muslims in the UK

 

The truth is now starting to come out.

 

Quote

It appears with several spelling variations on the Office for National Statistics’ ranking for 2015, which puts Oliver, Jack and Harry at the top, with Amelia, Olivia and Emily for girls.

 

Quote

Muhammad appears at number 12, followed by Mohammed at 29, Mohammad in 68th place and Muhammed coming in at 121.

 

When the spellings are combined, it was used 7,570 times – outstripping the 6,941 babies named Oliver on their birth certificates.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/most-popular-baby-names-2015-england-wales-muhammad-mohammed-mohammad-muhammed-a7222191.html

 

As for Choudary. 5 years out in 2. Token gesture for services rendered 

Edited September 11, 2016 by SgtRock
Addition

[Ace of Pop]

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[i claudius]

So he will be in prison for a couple of years ,while his family live in their free house collecting benifits every week that we have to pay for , then after radicalising loads of young lads in prison ,he to will be out to spread his hate and collect his social,while me and thousands like me who have worked and paid into the system for all our lives and never put a foot wrong ,get our pension frozen ,because we happen to live abroad . aint Britain Great ?

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, SgtRock said:

It matters not one iota what anyone says, from forum posters, to academics, the Quran, the Hadiths or any others in between.

 

What matters is the claims made by the various groups worldwide of  head choppers, suicide bombers, throwing gays off buildings, mass sexual assault and every other atrocity that I have not covered say.

 

And they all say the same thing. IT IS DONE IN THE NAME OF ISLAM AND MOHAMMED

 

The goal is one and the same. A WORLDWIDE CALIPHATE.

 

Despite the procrastinations of certain forum members and the duplicity of those that are in power in the UK in their attempt to suppress certain information regarding Muslims in the UK

 

The truth is now starting to come out.

 

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/most-popular-baby-names-2015-england-wales-muhammad-mohammed-mohammad-muhammed-a7222191.html

 

As for Choudary. 5 years out in 2. Token gesture for services rendered 

 

I will justify my procrastinations tomorrow.

[55Jay]

Steady!  That's a good lad.

 

 

[Morch]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Yes, I am aware that there were Muslim terrorist groups well before the timeline I used; in fact one could go back as early as the 7th century and the Khawarij!

 

In the latter half of the 20th century Islamic terrorism was mainly directed against other sects of Islam or secularism in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan etc. and, of course, against Israel and Israelis, such as the massacre at the Munich Olympics.

 

My point being that it is only in the last 15 to 20 years that various, often new, Islamic terrorist groups have been targeting Europe, North America etc.

 

Yes, many so called religious leaders form various religions have perverted their religion to suit their political agenda and justify their violence against others in pursuit of that agenda; and still are to this day. I have said as much many times in different topics. That is exactly the point I am making about the people behind ISIS et al!

 

My last lines were prompted by

which I took to mean that you were using the "all true Muslims support the terrorists because the Koran tells them to" ballocks so beloved of certain members.

 

If I misinterpreted those remarks I apologise and ask that you please explain what you did mean.

 

There were Islamic terrorist attacks in Europe and Lebanon earlier than stated in your posts. These mainly targeted USA related assets. There were other high profile attacks in other places  (Kuwait, Indonesia) as well. note that I refer to attacks perpetrated by or related to Islamic terrorist organizations. As such, not sure that the the Munich Massacre qualifies. That there are more such attacks nowadays and in recent years can be attributed to more than one factor. Asserting that it is a totally new phenomenon is incorrect.

 

Re them unspecified "people behind ISIS et al" - if I understand correctly, there are two underlying assumptions involved.  First, that the "perversion" is a cynical, calculated effort aimed at further an agenda. No support is offered that the beliefs and views held by these people are not genuine. To be clear, and in order to avoid getting into a theological debate - genuine in the sense that they truly see their interpretation as  correct and binding.

 

The second assumption is that there is an agreed upon concept of what Islam is. In other words, that there is "true" Islam, and that these "people behind ISIS et al" are not part of it. Considering the obvious disagreements on theological issues, the sectarian religious violence and the hostility toward "heretics", it seems far fetched. And a disclaimer - this applies to most religions (as was stated earlier).

 

Islam is followed by many and in different ways. There is no "true Islam" in the sense that one version is accepted by Muslims as superior to others. the same goes for any given religion. I still have no idea how you came to the conclusion that anything I posted amounts to blaming all Muslims for the actions of some. Maybe a case of Mom's "you hear what you want to hear"....

[7by7]

13 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

That applies very well to much of what you post on this forum. I'm sure you are aware that there is PLENTY of evidence to the contrary, that Islam is a religion of "peace."

 

Influential Islamist Sayyid Qutb wrote:

"The defeatists should fear Allah lest they distort this religion and cause it to become weak on the basis of the claim that it is a religion of peace. Yes, it is the religion of peace but in the sense of saving all of mankind from worshiping anything other than Allah and submitting all of mankind to the rule of Allah."

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi said:

 

"Islam was never a religion of peace. Islam is the religion of fighting. No one should believe that the war that we are waging is the war of the Islamic State. It is the war of all Muslims, but the Islamic State is spearheading it. It is the war of Muslims against infidels. O Muslims, go to war everywhere. It is the duty of every Muslim."

 

Many more examples from the Koran on this website:

 

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

 

Sayyid Qutb; widely criticised during his lifetime for his views by both conservative and progressive Muslims, a leading member of the Muslim Brotherhood who was hanged in 1966 for his part in the plot to assassinate President Nasser.

 

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi; leader of ISIS, designated by the US State department as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist with a bounty offered by the US government of 10 million USD for his capture or death.

 

Religionofpeace.com; an Islamaphobic hate site.

 

These are the people you put up as 'proof' that all of the Muslim scholars and religious leaders who denounce the terrorist as un Islamic are wrong; that academics such as Dr Holbrook are wrong.

 

Pathetic.